Please review Bear Warrior/Warshaper

[ahenobarbi]

I'm starting a campaign and wanted to play a Bear Warrior. In the past I did a completely useless character at least once, so I thought I'd better ask if what I plan makes sense.

We play in Faerun, on lvl 1. Ability scores (before applying racial modifiers) are 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10. We already had one game session so will not be able to change race, 1st level class and feat. If there is reason to change ability scores a bit DM should agree. Leap Attack feat is banned.

Dwarf
Str: 15
Dex: 12
Con: 14 + 2
Int: 13
Wis: 11
Cha: 10 - 2

1: Barbarian, feat: Extra Rage
2: Fighter, feat: Power Attack
3: Fighter, feats: Endurance, Combat Expertise
4: Fighter, +1 Str
5: Fighter, feat: Improved Trip
6: Fighter, feat: Knock Down
7: Fighter, feat: Combat Reflexes
8: Bear Warrior, +1 Str
9: Warshaper, feat: Steadfast Determination
10, 11: Warshaper
12: Bear Warrior, +1 Str, feat: Robilar's Gambit
13-20: Bear Warrior, maybe replace last 5 levels with something else (like Fighter for bonus feats? I'm not sure we'll get that far)

As a bear I can use some magic items (they will resize) and a calling armor.

What do you think? Is there useless or has big weaknesses I missed (I know that if for whatever reason this guy won't be able to use rage/change into bear he'll be much weaker)? Any suggestions for last 7 levels?

[Greenish]

Why so much Fighter? You could get, say, Imp. Trip just taking Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 swap (UA), without needing 13 Int or Combat Expertise.

What sources are allowed? If Complete Champion is in, Fist of the Forest is a classic entry into Bear Warrior (that is, if you can refluff it or stomach the actual fluff). Since you're a dwarf, two levels of Deepwarden (RoS) could also work.

[Edit]: Your original build can't qualify for Robilar's at 12, since Warshaper has medium BAB.

[ahenobarbi]

Why so much Fighter? You could get, say, Imp. Trip just taking Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 swap (UA), without needing 13 Int or Combat Expertise.

I think I would get little out of barbarian levels and extra feats are always nice. I don't know UA yet I'll take a look at wolf totem barbarian.



What sources are allowed? If Complete Champion is in, Fist of the Forest is a classic entry into Bear Warrior (that is, if you can refluff it or stomach the actual fluff). Since you're a dwarf, two levels of Deepwarden (RoS) could also work.

Fist of the Forest won't work because of the Primal Living thing. As for which books are allowed... all of them (every single class/ feat subject to DM review prior to use). Ah and first 5 levels in Player's Handbook classes.

Well... apparently those guys were doing some strange things (like they got 18 attribute for free, rolled 4 dice for the rest. And re-rolled all 11-or-less scores).

Don't get me wrong DM is actually ok but all-but-one of his players apparently enjoyed game in which they slaughtered everything with no effort. Now that more people prefer to do something else then slaughter... he tries to undo this mess.




[Edit]: Your original build can't qualify for Robilar's at 12, since Warshaper has medium BAB.
Good point, thanks.

[Greenish]

I think I would get little out of barbarian levels and extra feats are always nice. I don't know UA yet I'll take a look at wolf totem barbarian.Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) is is.


Fist of the Forest won't work because of the Primal Living thing.Ah, yes, that doesn't fit many characters. Shame, it'd be a great generic brawler class otherwise.

Well, Deepwarden (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4) is a nice PrC to tide you from 5 levels in core classes to Bear Warrior, or to fill out your build. You might need a ranger dip for the skills, though.


As for which books are allowed... all of them (every single class/ feat subject to DM review prior to use).Hmm. How about Dragon Magazines? I was specifically thinking of alternative ranger combat styles from issue #326, which would allow you to get PA from Ranger 2. If that works, you could do barbarian 2/ranger 3/deepwarden 2/bear warrior… Lemme plot that up:

{TABLE]ECL|Class|Features|Feats
1|Barbarian1:|Rage, Fast Movement|Extra Rage
2|Barbarian2:|–|Imp. TripB
3|Ranger1:|Favoured Enemy|TrackB, Knock-Down
4|Ranger2:|–|Power AttackB
5|Ranger3:|–|EnduranceB
6|Deepwarden1:|Trap Sense +1|TrackB, Combat Reflexes
7|Deepwarden2:|Stone Warden|–[/Table]
Nice woodsy guy, with all the feats you wanted to fit in, some extra skills and Track for out-of-combat utility and Con instead of Dex to AC (as a proper dwarf ought to have).


Well... apparently those guys were doing some strange things (like they got 18 attribute for free, rolled 4 dice for the rest. And re-rolled all 11-or-less scores).

Don't get me wrong DM is actually ok but all-but-one of his players apparently enjoyed game in which they slaughtered everything with no effort. Now that more people prefer to do something else then slaughter... he tries to undo this mess.
Huh? Who, what, where?

[ahenobarbi]

{TABLE]ECL|Class|Features|Feats
1|Barbarian1:|Rage, Fast Movement|Extra Rage
2|Barbarian2:|–|Imp. TripB
3|Ranger1:|Favoured Enemy|TrackB, Knock-Down
4|Ranger2:|–|Power AttackB
5|Ranger3:|–|EnduranceB
6|Deepwarden1:|Trap Sense +1|TrackB, Combat Reflexes
7|Deepwarden2:|Stone Warden|–[/Table]
Nice woodsy guy, with all the feats you wanted to fit in, some extra skills and Track for out-of-combat utility and Con instead of Dex to AC (as a proper dwarf ought to have).

Thanks now I'll wait and see if DM approves this.

By the way I was looking for more for "raging" then "woodsy" character but this should work well. I know about party killing madman frenzied berserker but I don't think other party members he would live long after entering PrC.

[The Glyphstone]

You want to be a "Raging' character, but only have 3 Rage/Day until level 17?

You really don't need the feats you're getting from Fighter levels - in particular, Combat Expertise is junk since you'll already be taking Power Attack penalties, and Combat Reflexes is only relevant to perform a Robilar's Gambit build that won't come online until 15th level.

[ahenobarbi]

Since I can't take Robilar's Gambit till 15 I'll have 3 rages/ day till lvl 12. On 12 lvl I can take extra rage feat to get rage 5/day. Or I can take extra rage on one of earlier levels and take other feats later.

Combat Expertise is just prereq. But Combat Reflexes might be useful since I get +5ft range on 11th level from Warshaper.

[Greenish]

By the way I was looking for more for "raging" then "woodsy" character but this should work well.Well, that'll rage as well as the original. I'm sure you can figure things to do with the skillpoints. :smalltongue:

[Edit]: Also, if DM allows you to swap ability scores around, you don't have to be that smart. Slap the 8 at your Int for "me no think, me hit" style, say.

[Heliomance]

As a Bear Warrior, I'd recommend focusing more on grappling than tripping. Bears get Improved Grab.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Alternatively you could go Dungeoncrasher fighter (dungeonscape), get an Enlarge Person permanencied on you, and then take Knockback (Races of Stone) for fun times knocking people around the battlefield for ++ damage.

[ahenobarbi]

I re-read Fist of the Forest and it might be not as bad as I initially thought... So if I wanted to go for the Fist of the Forrest


{TABLE]ECL|Class|Features|Feats
1|Barbarian|Rage, Fast Movement|Extra Rage|
2|Fighter|Bonus Feat|Power Attack
3|Fighter|Bonus Feat|Great Fortitude, Improved Unarmed Strike
4|Fighter||
5|Fist of the Forrest|AC bonus, fast movement,feral trance, unarmed damage 1d8|
6|Fist of the Forrest|Uncanny dodge, untamed strike| Endurance
7|Fist of the Forrest|Feral trace, scent, unarmed damage 1d10|
8|Bear Warrior|...|
9|Warshaper|...|Steadfast Determination
10|Warshaper|...|
11|Warshaper|...|
12-20|Bear Warrior
[/TABLE]


I need 2 levels of Fighter to get extra feats to qualify for tFotF on 5th level. And I want the 3rd level to get at least a bit of Reflex and Will saves... (I know I could take 1 level of monk... only I'd have to change my alignement solely for that purpose, for 1 level... stinky) .

Also no Unearthed Arcana for me so wolf totem barbarian.


As a Bear Warrior, I'd recommend focusing more on grappling than tripping. Bears get Improved Grab.

Yes but I think tripping is superior to grappling. And this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Freedom_of_Movement) can make grapple-focused build useless.