Getting Knowledge (The Planes)

[Studoku]

I'm trying to qualify for Fiend Blooded (Heroes of Horror) as a lesser-tiefling beguiler. The only requirement that's an issue is the 8 ranks of Knowledge- The Planes as it's cross-class.

I've found a few feats that would give me this as a class skill, but none that do anything useful other than add Knowledge: The Planes to my class skill. I'm spending most of my early feats (including flaws) on entry as it is.

The alternative would be dipping into a class with simpler prereqs that gets knowledge as a class skill and full casting. The problem is finding one that I can qualify for without jumping through too many hoops.

Thanks in advance.

[sreservoir]

knowledge devotion?

[HunterOfJello]

Take the feat Education from the Eberron Campaign Setting. It adds all Knowledge skills to your class skill list and +1 to two knowledge skills of your choice. The feat must be taken at level 1.


Or as sreservoir has repeatedly pointed out, you could take Knowledge Devotion at level 3+. It's an extremely good and popular feat for clerics and archivists. It would work well for a beguiler, especially in this situation.

[sreservoir]

knowledge devotion?

[Steward]

There's a feat, Knowledge... something. It might help you out here. I'm a little surprised that no one has even mentioned it yet.

[Novawurmson]

There's a feat, Knowledge... something. It might help you out here. I'm a little surprised that no one has even mentioned it yet.

Devotion to Knowledge, right?

[Studoku]

Thanks for the advice.

Knowledge devotion looks good, although I'm not sure how much use I'd get out of it with only two knowledge skills (I'm assuming Local won't grant me anything useful) and a character who's not going to be making many attack rolls. I'd also have to take it at level 6- my level 3 feat is already spoken for.

I'm tempted to use the classic mindbender dip. It looks messy- I'm taking seven ranks in knowledge (the planes) in one level- and takes a fair chunk of my early skill points but I get telepathy out of it.

[sreservoir]

the mindbender dip won't help very much unless you either take cc ranks beforehand, have +5 int, or +4 human. +4 human is probably easiest.

[Boci]

Thanks for the advice.

Knowledge devotion looks good, although I'm not sure how much use I'd get out of it with only two knowledge skills (I'm assuming Local won't grant me anything useful)

Local covers humanoids.


and a character who's not going to be making many attack rolls.

Not going to use touch spells?

[HunterOfJello]

Knowledge (Arcana): Constructs, Dragons, Magical Beasts
Knowledge (Local): Humanoids
Knowledge (The Planes): Outsiders, Elementals




Congratulations, you now have at least +1 to attack and damage against all of those monster types once you put 1 rank into each of those knowledge skills. It would be worth putting 1 rank into Knowledge (Nature) in order to get access to most of the other creature types too.

[ahenobarbi]

Knowledge (Arcana): Constructs, Dragons, Magical Beasts
Knowledge (Local): Humanoids
Knowledge (The Planes): Outsiders, Elementals




Congratulations, you now have at least +1 to attack and damage against all of those monster types once you put 1 rank into each of those knowledge skills. It would be worth putting 1 rank into Knowledge (Nature) in order to get access to most of the other creature types too.

Um, could someone tell me what says 1 rank in Knowledge(something) gives me +1 attack and damage (what book)?

[FMArthur]

Knowledge Devotion is a feat that lets you automatically make a check from the appropriate Knowledge skill against foes to give you a bonus to attack and damage against them. Each creature type corresponds to a particular Knowledge skill as detailed in the PHB's skill section. You then have a bonus ranging from +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls against them depending on the check's result.

Knowledge skills are trained-only; you only get to make the check at all by having ranks in the skill.

[Gandariel]

Um, could someone tell me what says 1 rank in Knowledge(something) gives me +1 attack and damage (what book)?

The feat Knowledge devotion.. gives up to +5 to attacks and damage, depending on your knowledge check.
donxt forget to take the Collector of stories skill trick!

[dextercorvia]

Apprentice Spellcaster from the DMGII gets you any one knowledge and UMD as a class skill forever. You also get an additional spell known at level 1, but that is less useful to a beguiler since you know all the spells on your list. If your DM is cool with it, you might ask to pick one as per the advanced learning rules, since I don't think they were thinking of full list casters when they wrote that feat.

[sreservoir]

Apprentice Spellcaster from the DMGII gets you any one knowledge and UMD as a class skill forever. You also get an additional spell known at level 1, but that is less useful to a beguiler since you know all the spells on your list. If your DM is cool with it, you might ask to pick one as per the advanced learning rules, since I don't think they were thinking of full list casters when they wrote that feat.

the UMD is also unuseful to beguilers. but anyway:

All: Education – Ebberon Campaign setting
All: Draconic Knowledge, (requires Draconic heritage) - Dragon Magic
Any: Apprentice (philosopher) - DMG II (also sense motive)
Any: Apprentice (spellcaster) - DMG II (also (ab)use magic device)
Any: Knowlege Devotion (feat) - Complete Champion
Any: Primordial Giant (template) - Secrets of Xen'drik
Planes: Keeper of forbidden lore [abyssal heritor] - Feindish codex 1 (also spellcraft)
Planes: Gatekeeper initiate – Ebberon campaign setting (requires spontaneous summon natures ally)

KoFL is nice when qualifying for ur-priest as a binder, I guess. of the rest, education and KD are probably best.

[dextercorvia]

the UMD is also unuseful to beguilers. but anyway:

Arguably, it is most useful for the levels he will spend as Fiendblooded.

[Psyren]

The standard trick to enter Fiendblooded is Planar Sorcerer subs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040711b&page=1). It seems a tailor-made fit to me, and picking the levels is easy.

[IdleMuse]

Apprentice (Philosopher) gives you +2 competence on Concentration and +2 Will.

Apprentice (Spellcaster) gives you +2 competence on Spellcraft and a bonus spell known (As the DM for this game, I'm happy to go with dextercorvia's suggestion above of getting an additional Expanded Knowledge, of a first level spell only, same restrictions as beguiler's normal EK, as there obviously isn't a rule for how it works with spontaneous list-knowing casters).

Educated gives you +1 to two knowledge skills.

Knowledge Devotion might be useful in a pinch, (or when you've run out of spells), but delays the build annoyingly (might as well take Mindbender instead).

[Thurbane]

Not as efficient as the methods already suggested, but you could take the Human Heritage feat (RoD) and then take levels in the Human Paragon class (UA).

[HeadlessMermaid]

The alternative would be dipping into a class with simpler prereqs that gets knowledge as a class skill and full casting. The problem is finding one that I can qualify for without jumping through too many hoops.
Unseen Seer, Complete Mage p.81.

It gives all Knowledge skills as class skills and full casting. The prerequisites are Hide 8 ranks, Search 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, Spot 8 ranks, and the ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells (including at least two divination spells).

It's very easy to qualify with a Beguiler 5, since all the required skills are class skills, and divinations are included in your spell list and are known automatically.

Edit: And it gives 6 skill points per level, so with an Int-based character, one level dip is more than enough to get you 8 ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

[Darrin]

The alternative would be dipping into a class with simpler prereqs that gets knowledge as a class skill and full casting. The problem is finding one that I can qualify for without jumping through too many hoops.


Ruathar (RotW) might work. You can get in without any early-entry tricks at Beguiler 5. Edit: Sorry, Beguiler 6.

Human Paragon (UA) has the whole adaptive learning thing, but you lose a caster level.

[sreservoir]

Ruathar (RotW) might work. You can get in without any early-entry tricks at Beguiler 5.

Human Paragon (UA) has the whole adaptive learning thing, but you lose a caster level.

nope, ruathar need beguiler 6. early entry for it is trivial for casters if you know what to go for, though.

[Tyndmyr]

Flexible Mind(Dragon 326) gives you a +1 unnamed bonus to two skills and treats them as always class skills for you.

I find it a fairly handy feat.

[sreservoir]

Flexible Mind(Dragon 326) gives you a +1 unnamed bonus to two skills and treats them as always class skills for you.

I find it a fairly handy feat.

it is [anarchic], no?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Races of Destiny page 150, the sidebar Variant: Half-Humans and Humanlike Races is absolutely appropriate for a Lesser Tiefling, since he's already a Humanoid instead of an Outsider. With the Races of- series of books they started a trend which gave all humanoids a subtype as well, several of which gained the Human subtype. Since this trend, it is actually inappropriate to have a humanoid creature who does not have any subtype, and as per this variant an Aasimar or Tiefling who is Humanoid would have the Human subtype.

With that, you qualify for the Able Learner feat in that same book, and can purchase cross-class skill ranks at a cost of one skill point per rank instead of two skill points per rank. Your max ranks in a cross-class skill are still unchanged, but it makes it considerably easier to use a Mindbender dip to get the ranks you need. You have to get that at 1st level, so you may need to take a flaw if your 1st level feat is already occupied.