Throwing to an extreme [3.5]

[kulosle]

So I have a player that enjoys throwers. I understand why the idea would be captivating. The thought of throwing 100s of daggers per round sounds amazing. But I was just wondering a few things. Its always been my understanding that its usually better to have one strong attack then a bunch of weak ones. Its usually only better to have multiple attacks when you have extra damaged being added on like sneak attack, which his builds always do. So the question I'm slowly getting at is: Is his efforts to maximize the number of attacks instead of effectiveness of those attacks worth it? Does a little sneak attack go a long way when you are getting crazy high number of attacks? How efficient/optimal is this compare to someone who holds his weapon with two or more hands?

[molten_dragon]

The use of sneak attack is generally maximized by getting as many attacks as possible. However, thrown daggers don't do a whole lot of damage, and unless he has significant amounts of sneak attack damage, he's going to fall behind rather quickly. A couple D6 probably isn't going to cut it, he's going to want close to full sneak attack progression probably.

And even then he'll probably fall behind someone who is just as optimized wielding a 2-handed weapon.

[Fouredged Sword]

A sneak attacking bloodstorm blade will destroy a encounter of low AC targets. Note that the ranged attack 30ft sneak attack clause does not apply to melee attacks. Bloodstorm blade gets to ignore that when he wants. He can also attack everything he sees (within 5 range increments) at his full bab.

Very dangerous.

[NNescio]

If you don't mind using a 'caster', you can go with a Rogue/Wizard/Unseen Seer/Incantatrix build that persists both Cloud of Knives and Hunter's Eye (both from PHB II). The former gives you one free ranged attack every round which you can apply SA damage to, and the latter is a Ranger spell (acquired through Unseen Seer) that grants extra SA dice.

Cloud of Knives also skirts around the usual anti-spell-stacking rules, so you can metamagick it up the wazoo with twin and repeating for even more knives per round. Alternatively, just cast multiple copies of it. If you're feeling particularly mean, you can also apply Fell Drain to toss around a pile of negative levels.

If you want to jack up your CL even further (which increase the daggers' attack bonuses and the number of SA dice granted by Hunter's Eye), you can swap out Rogue for Spellthief and try to fit in Master Spellthief and Ultimate Magus. Spellthief also lets you steal spells when you successfully sneak attack someone, by trading out the sneak damage dice that you would have otherwise dealt.

Sure, being a caster is kinda cheating, and Incantrix is pretty much stinky cheese personified, but you can choose to do nothing cast buff spells and toss daggers around, which can fit the character concept. Plus Unseen Seer sort of gimps your casting anyway, and a run-of-the-mill caster is probably stronger, and a straight-up blaster can deal damage more easily with conventional spells while having an easier time bypassing various defences.

[Talionis]

Adding a little damage to each attack is important.

Fire Shuriken (spell from Complete Arcane) allows you to make them for free. They don't have a duration so they stay around, until you throw them. So you just make them in your downtime. They have enough damage to be better than normal Shuriken.

Poison may also be an interesting avenue for more damage.

I also agree Master Thrower is really a high priority. It doubles the number of attacks you can make and can make them all Touch Attacks so you'll hit more often.

Monk flurry of blows I think can be used with Shuriken to add number of attacks.

Bard Dragonfire Inspiration can add a ton of damage. Extra Music might be a priority since you probably won't have a lot of room for lots of levels of Bard. DFI takes a lot of feats. You might also look at the White Raven tactics Feat if you are going to use any levels of Warblade or Crusaders.

I would suggest the feat Martial Stance (Tome of Battle)-- Assassin Stance which will add 2d6 Sneak Attack Damage. Also the Desert Wind has three boost that add 1d6, 2d6, and 3d6 respectively fire damage to each attack you do. They don't have prerequisites so they are options if you qualifty for the initiator level. I like Tome of Battle for a level or two of Unarmed Variant Swordsage & Shadow Sun Ninja prestige class will stack with some of your Monk powers. Maybe the most important, if you are an elf, I really like two levels of Eternal Blade in order to eliminate Damage Reduction.

[kulosle]

While I personally am not too familiar with all these tactics I have seen them used by the mentioned player. Except for the no limit on sneak attack range. Wow that's silly.

So his main method of getting lots of attacks is by getting extra arms. Would it be better to use those extra hands on a single weapon? 10d6 sneak attack averages out to 35 damage (halved if their normally immune). With each off hand you get three attacks from mutli weapon fighting feats. Each attack he can throw two weapons so that's six attacks per hand. So each extra hand is giving an additional 210, assuming they all hit, touch attacks, and flat footed if he's hiding.

While if you wield only one weapon each extra hand gives you another x.5 strength bonus and a better ratio on power attack. Harder to calculate. Whats the average strength on a decently optimized character, probably a frenzied berserker?

What about epics? Once you qualify for perfect multi weapon fighting than you get the same number of attacks with your off hands as your main. That can lead to a crazy number of attacks.

Also how big of a difference is weapon choice? It was mentioned that daggers aren't the best choice. I just said that because it's the stereotype, are shurikens better?