Ever wanted to play a Vampire?

[Xynphos]

Ever wanted to play a Vampire?

Well I do... the thing is I have no clue where to find it for PC's or what it actually does to a character. Stat-wise, Alignment-Wise, Powers-wise, LA, etc.

Can anyone direct me to where to find it? give some suggestions on what classes to take with it?

[Adindra]

its in the mm1 but it has a high level adjust from what i remember im away from my books atm

[Zale]

It's also in the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm)

+8 LA? Ouch.

[Aneurin]

There's a template for it in the Monster Manual I - under V. You apply that to a character and voila you have a vampire.

It gives you some stat boosts, undead type, and makes you really, really hard to kill. But it is something silly like +6LA. It may or may not force you to become evil, I don't remember it too well to actually say. I believe you get a number of Su abilities, too.

[Xynphos]

+8 or even +6 will hurt a lot. Maybe I can get my DM to waive LA without telling him why....

[Urpriest]

+8 or even +6 will hurt a lot. Maybe I can get my DM to waive LA without telling him why....

While this may be obvious, that's going to cause nothing but grief.

One suggestion is to ask your DM if you can use something weaker and describe it as a vampire. Libris Mortis has the Half-Vampire, which has some classic vampire abilities (Blood Drain, Fast Healing, Charm Gaze) for only LA +2.

[Flickerdart]

There is a Savage Progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) article on Vampires. You are explicitly allowed (see start of article) to complete only a part of the class, so if you don't want the full vampire abilities, don't take all the levels.

[Eldan]

Alternatively, go with urpriest's suggestion. Refluffing goes a long way. Be, say, a Necropolitan shifter with a class that has some way of getting draining attacks. Say, a psychic warrior.
Presto: undead shapeshifting bloodsucker.

[Xynphos]

So, according to Libris Mortis, I can take 8 levels in vampire to offset the +8 level adjustment. That seems very appealing.

[hex0]

You do get a bunch of bonus feats from the template which may help you get into some PRCs that require "X random core feats that no one takes". I mean you get 2 that are required for Master of Nine for one example. By picking a base race with a CON penalty, you can dump CON and raise CHA instead.

The best part about being a vampire: being a vampire lord (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a) The worst part: You won't be able to buy off any of your LA until ECL 24. :smallfurious:

[Urpriest]

So, according to Libris Mortis, I can take 8 levels in vampire to offset the +8 level adjustment. That seems very appealing.

That does exactly the same thing as having the +8 level adjustment. If you don't know how Monster Classes like those work, please read the handbook in my sig. The Monster Classes are covered in the section labeled "Savage Species will Save the Day!"

[Xynphos]

Urpriest, your guide helped tons in understanding monster classes, and LA. I always thought that a +2 LA meant that a character leveled up twice as slow as his comrades. Now I understand that it means that to go from lvl 1 to lvl 2 as character just has to gain experience of a character 2 lvls higher to level up. makes muck more sense that way. I'm not so scared of level adjustment anymore.

[Flickerdart]

Do note that a +8 Level Adjustment is still incredibly steep. In general, +3 is the highest you ought to go before the loss of hit dice makes you overly vulnerable.

[Pigkappa]

Also note that a Vampire character is going to screw up the campaign because of the Dominate ability. You can have hundreds of permanent slaves which is arguably good for NPCs and certainly disrupting for PCs.

[Flickerdart]

The Dominate effect only lasts 12 days, and that's if the target fails the save, is not immune to mind-affecting, is a humanoid, has no SR, etc. The saving throw is not going to be terribly high, at any rate. Getting minions is easier with Create Spawn, however, that has problems too.

You need to has 5 HD in order to become a Vampire, so the soonest you are able to produce spawn is ECL13. Each of your targets needs to also have at least 5 HD if you want to chain-dominate people. However, because of the difficult method of creating vampires (Constitution drain to 0 - while you could ostensibly use a method other than your fangs, at level 5 you don't have access to that sort of thing) it is highly improbable that the vampire will be able to overpower, pin and subsequently drain a target that is even as powerful as he is, never mind something stronger. Thus, at best, all of your minions will be 5HD schmucks like yourself. Even accounting for their new Vampire abilities, your flock is not any sort of challenge to a CR13 opponent.

[Crasical]

Pathfinder has a CR +2 Vampire template with no racial HD. According to the rules for setting CR for encounters, a Vampire Sorcerer 1 is CR 2. A Barbarian 3 is CR 2 as well, so being a vampire is about equal to 2 character levels.

Then again, by that flawed logic, it's okay for PCs to take the Young and Advanced templates, as they average out to +0 CR but give the player +8 Dex and +4 int, wis, cha for the low low price of reducing their Size Category one size. :smallannoyed:

[Curious]

Pathfinder has a CR +2 Vampire template with no racial HD. According to the rules for setting CR for encounters, a Vampire Sorcerer 1 is CR 2. A Barbarian 3 is CR 2 as well, so being a vampire is about equal to 2 character levels.

Then again, by that flawed logic, it's okay for PCs to take the Young and Advanced templates, as they average out to +0 CR but give the player +8 Dex and +4 int, wis, cha for the low low price of reducing their Size Category one size. :smallannoyed:

That's more a case of the young template sucking than a sign that the CR system is more borked than LA.

[hex0]

Even accounting for their new Vampire abilities, your flock is not any sort of challenge to a CR13 opponent.

Of course if your 5 HD are well spent on being a half-way decent buffer (Crusader, Bard, Dragon Shaman, etc.) your flock will at least be horrible bodyguards instead of utterly useless.

[Drglenn]

ooor you could play vampire: the masquerade/requiem

[bluthunda]

Half-Vampire from libris Morrtis is a nice template some good from Vampire and no bad like being killed by light and unable to cross running water at only a +2 LA

[Crasical]

ooor you could play vampire: the masquerade/requiem

Because going to an entirely different system in an entirely different setting in an entirely different time period with an entirely different tone is the correct choice when someone wants to play a vampire with his DND group. :smallyuk:

[hex0]

Half-Vampire from libris Morrtis is a nice template some good from Vampire and no bad like being killed by light and unable to cross running water at only a +2 LA

And it is actually at a low enough LA that is buyoffable at a reasonable level.

[FMArthur]

Honestly I think a non-vampire solution is the best idea. There are just so many other things that take up less of your levels and can represent vampire abilities just fine.

Here's something I just came up with for you off the top of my head, listed in order of required investment:
Start with an Elan, LA +0. Elan is a standard race, an extremely ambiguously 'altered' human who is an aberration now. The racial fluff is almost that there is no fluff because their origin is a complete secret or some such. Elans do not age and do not need to eat or drink, come with 2 psionic power points and can use any power points they have to increase their saves or reduce incoming damage.
Take the Hidden Talent feat for the Hungry Touch psionic power and 2pp.
OR take a level of Ardent and grab the Consumption Mantle for Hungry Touch and the granted ability that lets you gain hitpoints when someone is damaged nearby. You also get 2pp, another mantle of your choice and its first level power as well.
Apply the Shadow Creature template to the character for 2 Level Adjustment. Your speed increases, you gain total concealment when in anything less than full daylight, and you choose other abilities as you level up, like Cause Fear, Mirror Image, DR 5/magic or fast healing 2.

If you've done all of these things, you have spent only 3 levels compared to the standard vampire's 8. If you just do the first two, you are down by one feat and no levels. You can also just continue on with Ardent levels as far down the line as you want or make it your primary class, improving your powers, acquiring stronger ones and getting a lot more power points. Class levels with actual hit dice rock the face off of 8 blank levels.

This is far from the only way to do these things. It's just an example to demonstrate how trivial it is to come up with vampire abilities without having to touch the awful Vampire template; classes, spells, magic items, feats... you can probably build a complete "vampire" with any of those.

[CTrees]

That's more a case of the young template sucking than a sign that the CR system is more borked than LA.

Actually, PF's simple templates are pretty good for adjusting creatures quickly, when you need to adlib. They just get silly when you stack them, or when you give them to PCs. Essentially, they're good tools for DMs as cheats, but they break terribly when you start to use them for optimization. Paizo does that sort of thing occassionally (see: the advanced race guide).

[Snowbluff]

Half-Vampire from libris Morrtis is a nice template some good from Vampire and no bad like being killed by light and unable to cross running water at only a +2 LA

This^

I've actually had a person wanting to play a full vampire. I never was able to convince how bad of an idea that really was. :smallsigh:

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

The only reason for half vampire is for the nerfed Children of the Night. If it utterly makes a vampire to you, go for it.

I have a build that achieves the best possible setup for this architype although I am primarily found of my Optimal Reverse Engineered Vampiric Dragon. As usual the build is in my build compendiu

[Flickerdart]

Of course if your 5 HD are well spent on being a half-way decent buffer (Crusader, Bard, Dragon Shaman, etc.) your flock will at least be horrible bodyguards instead of utterly useless.
The kingdom is down in the dumps because all of their Bards have gone missing! The PCs must investigate these disappearances, leading them to confront a powerful vampire lord and his enormous retinue of bardic thralls.

[Kaeso]

Humm, looking at all the things a vampire offers, there'sone thing that really looks out of place.
:smallconfused: Why do vampires get a natural slam attack? Aren't they physically almost identical to humans, who only get unarmed strike as their "natural attack"?

[Igneel]

I personally like to go with Vampiric Dragons while playing cheap dragons like Pseudodragons and Dragonwrought Kobolds for a +5 LA. One of the epic games I'm playing the Dm is allowing me to convert the Vampire Lord into a extension for the Vampiric Dragon for a combined total of +10 LA in a gestalt game.

[Xaktsaroth]

Libris Mortis has all you need:

Half-Vampire(skip blood draining abilities) + Necropolitan + Evolved Undead + Fang graft =

A playable vampire for +3 LA.

:D

[DoctorGlock]

Humm, looking at all the things a vampire offers, there'sone thing that really looks out of place.
:smallconfused: Why do vampires get a natural slam attack? Aren't they physically almost identical to humans, who only get unarmed strike as their "natural attack"?

Depends on your vamp. Count Orlock had claws bigger than his head and those Indonesian vampires could only really hit you with their intestines.

[Zaranthan]

Humm, looking at all the things a vampire offers, there'sone thing that really looks out of place.
:smallconfused: Why do vampires get a natural slam attack? Aren't they physically almost identical to humans, who only get unarmed strike as their "natural attack"?

I always imagined it as part of the "supernatural strength" element of the legend. Rather than simply increase their strength score (which has all sorts of unwanted implications), just make them able to lay the smack down, even on armed people. That fits just fine.

[big teej]

+8 or even +6 will hurt a lot. Maybe I can get my DM to waive LA without telling him why....

I just split up everything over 8 levels of undead hd

I dunno how many DMs would be open to such a thing, but I'd try that first.


if your starting at level 8+ just take 8 "levels" of vampire, and call it a day,

[hex0]

I just split up everything over 8 levels of undead hd

I dunno how many DMs would be open to such a thing, but I'd try that first.


if your starting at level 8+ just take 8 "levels" of vampire, and call it a day,

You mean giving generic HD equal to LA and ignoring LA?

[Flickerdart]

Undead HD are pretty awful, but it's still helpful, especially to avoid being turned by every cleric that so much as sneezes in the same country as you.

[Mystify]

I had a party mishandle a vampire encounter, and long story short, the entire party ended up as vampires. Many times, the LA seemed to work fine. The DR and fast healing where huge advantages, their energy drain and stat bumps made the good in combat, and it worked well. Sometimes. Other times, it wasn't worth anything, and they would just melt. Against magic, primarily, where their DR was irrelevant.

All in all, I don't think they functioned well in practice. Since they were all vampires, I could adjust things to compensate. However, the LA system does not work nearly as well as they would like you to believe, and when you have +8 LA, the issues are readily apparent.

[big teej]

You mean giving generic HD equal to LA and ignoring LA?

with this specific creature yes, I do it on a monster-by-monster basis however, there have been times where in addition to using the monsters RHD I would extend it out to their LA as well.

for example, I had a player dead set on playing a succubus, the player never came to the table, and the "succubus class" I was working on is unfinished, but it's abilities (stat bumps, sr, dr, etc.) were spread out over 12 levels of outsider hit die.

on the other end of the spectrum, a standard Ogre routinely sees play at my table with "4 levels of giant" and then however many class levels are required to fill out the character.


and a last example, I currently have a gulgar at my table, unfortunately, due to time constraints, I basically just had to give her the whole creature instead of splitting it up into 10-15 levels (gulgar have 10 hd and la +5) with the trade off that she wouldn't gain xp for awhile.

[DrDeth]

The half vampire has the flavor and is playable.

Vampires are simply not playable. Any given encounter that is designed to be a challenge for your companions will have the vampire:

walk over it like he's godzilla OR

be utterly, totally twarted.

Other encounters are just weird:

For example, a level one commoner in a sunny field- completely immune to the vampire.

Due to their special powers, weaknesses and HUGE LA, vampires simply can't adventure with any normal party.

[Mystify]

The half vampire has the flavor and is playable.

Vampires are simply not playable. Any given encounter that is designed to be a challenge for your companions will have the vampire:

walk over it like he's godzilla OR

be utterly, totally twarted.

Other encounters are just weird:

For example, a level one commoner in a sunny field- completely immune to the vampire.

Due to their special powers, weaknesses and HUGE LA, vampires simply can't adventure with any normal party.
Yeah, this is pretty accurate. When the entire party is vampires, you can compensate for this, but with a single vampire in a normal party it will be a true an horrible mess.

[Rubik]

Yeah, this is pretty accurate. When the entire party is vampires, you can compensate for this, but with a single vampire in a normal party it will be a true an horrible mess.Time for an underdark campaign. Though you're still pretty screwed. Let's hope those svirfneblin don't have underground garlic farms.

[Mystify]

Time for an underdark campaign. Though you're still pretty screwed. Let's hope those svirfneblin don't have underground garlic farms.

Actually, energy damage was their biggest weakness. Anything that was slinging energy damage around would tear them apart, casters included. fast healing and DR go a long way for patching their frail hitpoints against martial damage(presuming they are not fighting a vampire hunter prepared to pierce their DR), and being undead really helps their weaker saves, but you start throwing a couple of fireballs around and they incinerate.

Of course, them not actually dying for more than an hour or so helped make that so it wasn't a complete disaster. All in all, the overpowering vs. useless dichotomy held, at least at the level (ECL 13ish) we were at. Some things they could have easily without a challenge, and other things they would just fold against.

3.5's templates and LA system is simply not very functional. A linear offset in level rarely adequately or accurately expresses the tradeoffs and advantages a player experiences.

[Engorde]

Maybe you could adapt a Vampire from Montecook´s World Of Darkness D20 and play that?

[Flickerdart]

Vampire Lord helps vampires tons, though. CHA to saves eliminates their weakness to Disintegrate, their stupid weaknesses are eliminated, their Turn Resistance is now roughly par with what Clerics of their level might be putting out, and they get shinies that are actually sort of worth the +8 LA they've been saddled with. Anyone who becomes a vampire should grab the Lord upgrade to the exclusion of any other objective.

[DrDeth]

Actually, energy damage was their biggest weakness. Anything that was slinging energy damage around would tear them apart, casters included. fast healing and DR go a long way for patching their frail hitpoints against martial damage(presuming they are not fighting a vampire hunter prepared to pierce their DR), and being undead really helps their weaker saves, but you start throwing a couple of fireballs around and they incinerate.

Right. Let us take a 10th level game. The tank has 100+ hp. The vampire has 18. And once he hits 0, he's toast.

[Flickerdart]

Right. Let us take a 10th level game. The tank has 100+ hp. The vampire has 18. And once he hits 0, he's toast.
No, once he hits 0, he's smoke.

[Rubik]

Right. Let us take a 10th level game. The tank has 100+ hp. The vampire has 18. And once he hits 0, he's toast.Actually, it has to be a 13+ level game, because you have to have 5 HD to begin with, though it's a valid point nonetheless.

[Flickerdart]

Actually, it has to be a 13+ level game, because you have to have 5 HD to begin with, though it's a valid point nonetheless.
Vampire Lords always create full-blooded vampires, even if they punch a 1-HD baby to death.

[Dr.Epic]

its in the mm1 but it has a high level adjust from what i remember im away from my books atm

Yeah, the template is in the first MM. I'm not sure how you couldn't have found it unless you don't own the book which I find odd. MM, PHB, and DMG are the three books you NEED.

There's also entire books dedicated to playing undead creatures and undead campaigns if you weren't aware.

[Flickerdart]

MM, PHB, and DMG are the three books you don't NEED.

Fixed it for you. All you're missing out on by relying on the SRD is a bunch of crummy fluff, some monsters, Red Wizard of Thay and Witch.

[DarthPeleus]

I have a story regarding this.

Our group played a campaign not long ago where for some reason, every member of the party ended up playing melee dps.

Me- bear warrior/totemist (4 claws) stacking rends- two shotted a dragon with this build

gishman - used some persist cheese and stuff- insane power attack, etc

iaijutsuman - straight from anime, using BFS katana and cha synergy

necromancer- made more melee dps :P


We all became vampires. Then we became vampire/werewolves.

The next fight (predetermined by the DM long ago) was against a fellow who could control undead with no save.

We are playing a new campaign now.

[Thyrian]

Had this issue awhile back (playing Pathfinder) the GM was all for the Pathfinder +LA up until the exact moment he read the 'Dominate ability'.

In the end we used a template for a 'vampire scion' from a book called "Fang and Fury" -a guide to vampires which turned most special abilities into feats so that for one to be a 'true' vampire one actually had to invest in being a vampire over other options- perhaps it's a bit stilted towards the classes with bonus feats up the wazoo- but it worked well for us.

The book also had a few good tips about vampires in games and the problem of the fact that they either wreck a party and vanish OR die in 4 rounds with no problem- depending on whether the PC's are ready or not.

[betelgeuce]

The problem with Half-Vampire is that it doesn't qualify you for Vampire Lord which really just blows...

[Greyfeld85]

Libris Mortis also has the Vampire Spawn monster class that's 8 levels long. I'm not sure how it compares against the vampire monster class though.

[Fluffy_1.0]

In all honesty, I prefer to get my vampire on in Vampire the Masquerade. Not helpful, but there it is.

For 3.5, I agree with refluffing the half vampire.

[*.*.*.*]

Take a level of the vampire template class, then advance it using legacy champion. You get HP and BaB, yay!:smallamused:

[The Glyphstone]

Take a level of the vampire template class, then advance it using legacy champion. You get HP and BaB, yay!:smallamused:

Great Modthulhu: Okay, now that's just sick and wrong.:smallsmile:

Also, thread locked for necromancy, as coincidentally appropriate as it happens to be.