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Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-08, 05:09 PM
Now, I know what your thinkin'. “Everybody does Orc rewrites! Everyone has done every variation possible! And they've done it better than you ever could cuz you're lame!” To which I would say, “That's quite hurtful.”

But enough about that. Let's do another one!

Orcs, Who are they, and How are they different? Everyone does Orcs differently, I think, because people like reinventing the bad guys. And Orcs were the original Bad Guys, at least as far back as Tolkien. But if a rewrite is worth doing once, it's worth doing more. And I had a vision of Orcs in my head or a while now. Inspired by this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226951 ) originally.

As always, criticisms and critiques are welcome (nay, demanded!). I hope the people of the Playground can give some good advice on how to make this a more coherent/good setting.

For now, let's begin with society. Let's assume for simplicities sake that this is an Early Medieval time period, where the Orcs have been forced to the edge of the world by the more “civilized” races. Orcs live in the most inhospitable landscapes,the tundras, the deserts, the swamps, although the primary concentration will be in the cold North, surrounded by perpetual coniferous forests and more-common-than-not, snow. We'll be focusing mostly on the Northerly bound Orcs.


Appearance

Orcs are a large, humanoid species residing near the edges of the map and in the most inhospitable parts of the world. They typically stand between six and seven feet (nearer to the latter) and are highly muscular. In the cold north they possess gray skin and black hair and eyes, but further south in the deserts one can find Orcs of red skin, lighter hair and bright yellow eyes. In the jungles and swamps of the world, Orcs have been described as mossy green with green eyes and hair. And combinations of these traits are not unheard of.

Orc appearance is generally described as feral due to possessing mostly canine, or pointed teeth, giving them a distinctly fearsome expression. They actually do possess molars, though these are difficult at times to see. Their arms are also slightly longer than what would normally be proportional. This means that, to a human hoping to dodge an Orc's blade, one must compensate because the sword arm will be longer than it appears.

Oddly, despite them being much taller and far more muscled, Orcs appear to possess the same basic skeletal shape as an Elf. Orc skulls are noted as being highly angular, almost identically so to Elves, and despite their higher percentage of muscle Orcs tend to be somewhat narrower than one would expect. As several Gnome scholars have noted, Orcs can at times look like very tall, muscular Elves. However, where one would expect a sharp point or corner on an Elf's skeleton (the chin or cheekbones), an Orc's will be squared-off or flat. This gives them a slightly cruder visage, as if they were carved by some inelegant hand. This extends to their ears, which while long like an Elf's, end end with an abrupt corner, like the edge of a playing card.

Orcs also possess a long lifespan. Like Elves, Orcs are mistaken for being immortal. In truth, only Dwarves live forever (Orcs believe they are made of Stone, as opposed to clay). Elves and Orcs share a suspiciously similar lifespan of 1,000 years, give or take. Orcs don't always live that long due to the harshness of their environment, although stories of immortal Orcs do exist (See: Magic: Atavism).

Orc Society

Orcs are known for their semi-nomadic lifestyle. For thousands of years they have made a life for themselves on the edge of the world because the rest of the world pushed them out. In these harsh lands, the Orcs have slowly built a stable society. Their society is split into two separate, distinct, yet symbiotic parts: Settlements (Urukin) and Patrols (Ka'aleah).

Settlements

The Settlements are the Orc cities and villages, and there is no general size or layout to them. They appear where needed and grow to fit that need. Some are as sparse as a few houses in the center of farmland, while others have become colossal stone metropolises nearing a million Orcs in population. And when I say stone, I mean stone. The Orcs carry among their priestly caste spells passed down throughout the ages, learned at the dawn of time by powers unnamed here. Some spells allow them to mold rock with their hands, given time to concentrate on the task. Thus, the Settlements often boast mighty fortifications and strong houses within.

Now, the first thing one must know about the Orcs is the separation of the sexes. In the Settlement, the High Priestess is the law. She answers directly to the Conclave, a weekly meeting of all the adult members of a Settlement, who are technically the final say on how things are done in a Settlement. The High Priestess deals with sacrifices, rituals, and the tutelage of the young and the aspiring healers (read: Clerics).

Next down on the societal ladder is the local Shalak, the storyteller. This is usually an Orc of advanced age (note: most male Orcs wish to die in honorable combat, so the honor of this position is somewhat dubious). He will spend the remainder of his days as the lore-master of a Settlement and sometimes adviser to those who heed him.

Below him stand the Home Guard, those Orc men who have yet to reach the proper age of thirty to join a Patrol, and Orc women who have born children in the past (the reasoning being they will fight ferociously for their children). They stand ready to defend the Settlement in times of war.

Below these are the farmers (again, all female). Most of the land surrounding an Orc Settlement is devoted to agriculture, with the fallow fields used to raise pigs, goats and chicken kept for food. The produce is sold at market because the Orcs are largely carnivorous by nature. Vegetables and grains make them sick.

Last in the (official) social rungs are the Merchants. This position is held almost exclusively by Goblins in return for protection by the Orcs. Most Orcs see them as a necessary evil, slightly unsavory characters, but a good way to avoid being cheated in business dealings with outsiders. Goblins are duplicitous, lying, thieving cretins who would kill and rob you so much as look at you, but seeing as the Orcs recognize they are culturally inclined to naivete and gullibility, they have little choice (and besides, the Goblins aren't so stupid as to rob their sole benefactors). Goblins have no separation of sexes, have a great amount of social mobility (See: Warfare and Tactics: Auxiliaries), and follow their own religion, but are otherwise deeply devoted to the Orcs (a puzzle that keeps many an Elf awake at night).

Beneath the Goblins would be the slaves kept by the Orcs. They rarely perform manual labor, but rather are used as instructors and craftsmen. While Orcs are not incompetent, the Priestesses long ago realized the need for knowledge, and so asked the Patrols to raid for slaves of higher classes that could teach the Orcs new ways of making things. It is suggested in places that a Dwarf slave gave the Orcs the knowledge to craft stone homes long ago.

Slaves are highly prized, and once they have given service they are set free and made honorary Orcs. Surprisingly, many slaves remain with or marry into the Orc lifestyle afterward, leading to various claims of Half-Orcs running about.

The Patrols

The Patrols serve as the military, hunting, and herding arm of the Settlements. The Patrols are effectively small armies that migrate from Settlement to Settlement, hunting game for the Settlements as they go. As they travel, Patrols make short visits to the Settlements in order to drop off their hunting hauls and pick up supplies of their own. When they leave, they take with them all young male Orcs that are of Age, who then join the Patrol as members. While in town, the Patrol members found worthy may be honored by a female Orc who wishes to mate. The resulting child is raised by the Settlement until he too comes of age and joins another Patrol. No Patrol has sole control over a Settlement, and vice-verse. It may take a few years, but a Patrol can visit every Settlement in a region, provided their hunt is moving in that direction.

Patrols herd large, wooly creatures called Ogres (a four legged version of a Monster from “Where the Wild Things Are”). The Ogres provide ample milk and meat for the Patrol, and when Winter comes a few slaughtered Ogres can feed an entire Settlement until mid-spring. Their milk is also considered highly nutritious (and the cheese horrendously smelly), and often mixed with the Ogres' blood and fermented to make “Hogla”, a mead-like alcoholic beverage (it's name must be bellowed at the top of one's lungs, and for your own sake don't let it touch your gums on the way down). This alone would make the Patrols incredibly wealthy, since Elves love Ogre cheese, and Humans consider Hogla almost mythically good. Still, tensions between the races has led to little enough trade of this sort. The last gift of the Ogres is their wool, a high quality wool that takes well to dying and is considered exceptionally fine winter attire by most races (except Gnomes, who get hives from touching it).

Typical game for a Patrol includes such finds as: Giant Stags, Dire-Wolves, Bear-Wolves, Wild Boar, Dire-Boar, Jakalopes, and on occasion, Dragons. A Dragon kill is considered the finest honor any hunter can attain, save perhaps one (See: Magic: Atavism). There's also good-eating on Dragons, as one could feed a Settlement of decent sizes for months. Dragon bones are made into weapons (they naturally ooze poison into every enemy cut) and their scales are made into armor.

During the harsh winter months, Patrols stay for an extended period in the Settlement walls, and around the local countryside. They take up residence in the Hogla Hall and proceed to eat and drink until Spring. During these months, the male Orcs found worthy are allowed to mate with the females. This accounts for many summertime Orc births. They also provide a valuable garrison, and fill the nights with song, stories and dance, some of the great loves of the Orcs. Unfortunately, another love of Orc men is drinking and combat. While ritualized battles are encouraged, there is only so much an Orc can take. This is why, to take their minds off laying about and doing nothing but eat, drink, fight and make love in winter, the Patrols often take extended winter...excursions.

These excursions are usually the reason most people have a low opinion of the Orcs, as an Orc Winter excursion is often synonymous with “Loot and Pillage”. Winter is the War season. Patrols race off to Elf or Human lands and pillage to their hearts' content. This gives the men something to do, keeps order, and provides slaves and treasure for the Settlement.

The reason this system works is twofold. Orc borders are always crawling with patrols, and the gene pool is always kept diverse (the Orcs themselves don't know what a gene pool is, but would get the general concept). It fosters a culture that has very little concept of “family units” as the blood of various Settlements are spread about by the Patrols (and vice-verse), and instead sees equivocation between “family” and “Orc”. Orcs are incredibly altruistic towards other Orcs. An Orc merchant (if there was such a thing) would scam any human or Elf they saw. But set another Orc in front of him, and the phrase “What's mine is yours,” takes on a literal definition. That merchant would give the Orc the shirt off his back if asked for it. Orcs don't see the difference between a relative and a distant neighbor. They do not tolerate wrongs against even one of them. You kill an Orc, you're a dead man because there's a million of these guys, and they will gleefully destroy you.

The downside of this hive-mind mentality is that, considering how they feel about each other, Orcs do not understand the concept of “An Individual”, or “Personal Responsibility”. If some Elves kill some of their people, the won't necessarily go directly for the Elves who committed the attack. Oh sure, they'd love to get their hands on those guys, but if they can't then the nearest Elf village will do fine. The attackers killed Orcs, so the Orcs kill Elves, thinking that the loss will feel the same to the ones who wronged them. Some Orcs, the ones who for one reason or another find themselves exiled (a common punishment that can last anywhere between a few weeks to several years, to life) and working with Adventurers, have learned to get over this belief in order to function in foreign societies.

War is almost unheard of between the Orcs, except in a ceremonial sense. It's mostly done to keep the skills sharp and the morale up. Usually, the “wars” are prearranged and forbid the use of weapons. Both sides fight fist and foot, but there ware still rare fatalities.

Now earlier, during Appearance, there was mentioned Orc skeletons. This is important here. The reason so few Orc skeletons remain is because of the peculiar nature of Cannibalism in Orc Society. In this specific case, that of an accidental death in ceremonial combat, the fallen warrior is ritualistically devoured. In fact, unless an Orc dies from disease or their body is totally destroyed or otherwise unrecoverable, their flesh is eaten by the others, including bones (bone marrow tastes good, amirite?).

Sometimes real war breaks out, whether it is because of territorial disputes (Settlement A claims the same field as Settlement B) or honor (War Chief Greet feels insulted by something Chief Huil said about his Patrol), or simple pettiness (The High Priestess of Ha'Shol Settlement just does not like her counterpart from Wurj). These battles are usually bloody and ruinous for the Settlements involved, and such feuds can simmer for centuries due to Orcs' long lifespan. Sometimes battle by Champion can resolve the issues, but not always.

Other notable facets of Orc society:

Trials -In Orc society, crime is not unheard of. If an Orc commits a crime against the Settlement or Patrol, whether thievery, murder or heresy, he must be punished. However, the typical Orc mentality on individuality complicates the trial process. For one thing, the shame of the crime is shared by the whole. Therefore, the Settlement or Patrol (whichever the crime took place) will assign itself the blame for not preventing the crime. Practical consideration is given to the actual criminal however. While the root cause of moral failings may lie in some weakness among the whole, the individual still had the final say in committing the crime.

While capital punishment is nonexistent, exile is the preferred method of punishment. For the most minor of infractions (fighting for instance), the offender is usually put to work the least desirable duties of the Settlement or Patrol (hard labor in general). More serious offenses are punished with exile. A particularly savage fight with little reason to end at that, or theft (being the penultimate violation of community), could be punished by anywhere from a few months to several years exiled. Anyone exiled in this way is Outlaw, no longer considered a true Orc. He/she must pay for services instead of simply receiving aid, and is generally treated as an outsider until the terms of their exile are completed.

For murder, an Orc will be exiled for life, and no other Orc may associate with them. Killing such a one is still a touchy thing. Generally, the Settlement or Patrol won't do it themselves unless the Exiled one initiates hostilities. The Exiled one's name is stricken from living memory, and no one is to speak of them.

Returning from such a wretched state is rare. It has only happened once or twice, and redemption can never be regained in Orc eyes unless the Exiled dies in their redeeming act.

Civil Service – All wealth is shared by the community, ergo no taxes, ergo almost no bureaucracy (sans religious)

Magic – Orcs only require two forms of magic. The first is their Clerics, their Jira'l. All priestesses are given basic instruction in healing arts. Those with aptitude become Jira'l, practitioners of a magical tradition, and these travel alongside the various Patrols, providing magical assistance. They use their power to increase the speed and strength of their charges, heal the sick and wounded, and rarely call down celestial wrath (very little offensive magic, mostly buffs and de-buffs). It is forbidden for any man to touch a Jira'l, being held as sacrosanct. Any Jira'l who willingly break the taboo are declared heretical, Witches. They cannot reenter a Settlement for the rest of their lives, but many Patrols prefer their company, as a Witch often will study forbidden spells that can turn the tide of battle in a pinch.

The second form of magic accepted by mainstream Orc society is simply known as “The Rite”. Certain Orcs who “hear the call” travel into the harshest, most godsforsaken hellscapes imaginable and do not return until they have achieved Atavism. They meditate and hone their bodies to a knife's edge until they transcend their Clay-flesh and become Flame incarnate. These Warrior Priests are honored and revered among the Orcs, but believed to be too pure to remain in Orc society for long. They are as wandering monks, aiding any they come across and generally serving as immortal teachers and protectors. The Orcs hail these demi-gods as “Ba'Rok”, though the more common name (produced by an Elf mistranslation) is “Balrog”.

SpaceBadger
2012-01-08, 05:55 PM
Nice work! This doesn't fit w the way I see Orcs in my settings, but is so cool that I may have to invent a new race just to make their culture like this orc culture of yours.

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-08, 10:07 PM
Why, thank you. :smallsmile: Is there anything in particular you liked?

SpaceBadger
2012-01-09, 09:53 AM
Why, thank you. :smallsmile: Is there anything in particular you liked?

Orc Society; Settlements; Patrols - umm, I guess that would be most of it. It all works well together.

SpaceBadger
2012-01-10, 02:41 PM
I thought it over and figured out how I can use this cool culture that you made.

In my games there are two totally different species of "orcs". The Cave Orcs are like traditional fantasy/D&D orcs: greenish skin, tusks/fangs, darkvision, live underground. The Surface Orcs aren't really traditional orcs at all, but are descended from neanderthals, more human-like due to the shared protohuman genetic roots, but as their ancestors lost out to the cro-magnons here on Earth, the Surface Orcs tend to be out-competed by Humans in the game worlds and are pushed to less hospitable lands to live. They never have figured out the civilization thing with agriculture and cities, and tend to be hunter-gatherers or at best herder-gatherers. Surface Orcs are interfertile with humans, and Cave Orcs are not, so all half-orcs are of the Surface variety.

Anyway, the two main cultures of Surface Orcs that I have had in game are Forest Orcs (villagers) and Plains Orcs (nomads), but I can easily see a society of Surface Orcs just as you have described living in sub-arctic forest and tundra, so now we will have Northern Orcs as well.

Thanks!!! :smallbiggrin:

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-10, 07:52 PM
Anyway, the two main cultures of Surface Orcs that I have had in game are Forest Orcs (villagers) and Plains Orcs (nomads), but I can easily see a society of Surface Orcs just as you have described living in sub-arctic forest and tundra, so now we will have Northern Orcs as well.

Glad I could help. Still, sad that so few people have commented while so many view. I best post something new.

Relationships

“You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies.” ~Oscar Wilde

Following that concept, I would like to submit here the current standing of the Orcs with their “enemies”. This is no particular order. I should also point out that the opinions of the Orcs are based as much on their beliefs as they are practical real-world knowledge.

Elves – The rivalry between Elves and Orcs has gone on since the beginning of time. To an Orc, an Elf is a lot like a scrawny Orc who knows magic. Orcs are also of the opinion that Elves take themselves far too seriously and need to take that stick out from where they jammed it. Elves always look on the downside of things. They're far too cynical for Orc tastes (Elves in this world are like Vikings in regards to Ragnarok and Gotterdamerung, believing that, regardless of how valorous and brave and honorable one is, in the end Everyone and Everything in Creation will die, screaming).

Despite this, Orcs don't seem to hate the Elves, at least as a rule. They seem to respect the Elves' martial skills, even as they mock their magical talents as “unbecoming of warriors”. Orcs see Elves as an estranged brother, distant but still worth the effort to know better.

Elves, on the other hand, hate Orcs. The mere fact that there is something that looks so hideous (YMMV) and yet claims to be essentially the same race as them as the Orcs do, galls them to their core. Elves live incredibly long lives. So long, in fact, that they live long enough to see kingdoms rise and fall, and great works crafted by their own hand fade into shadow. They bear witness to Time's cruel and malicious march, watching all they love wither and die. They are nihilists at heart, obsessed with death and the nothingness beyond. This is partly due to having so much time to contemplate it. They hate Orcs essentially because they believe Orcs are themselves given over to the “Madness of Optimism”, that wild, fantastical, ruinous belief that anything will get better or turn out alright. It's like looking in the mirror and seeing a crazy person. But the only difference between you and your reflection is that the reflection is smiling.

They have yet to attempt full on Genocide on the Orcs. The reason? Because the Elves noted how much the Dwarves hate them, and figured that anything that bothered those smug little hairy bastards so completely couldn't be all that bad...

Dwarves – There is almost nothing you can call an Orc that will engender the same level of bone-shattering fury as to call one “Dwarf-lover”. Dwarves are universally hated and reviled by Orcs. There is no word in Elvish, Dwarvish, Orcish, or the tongues of Man that could properly encapsulate just how much Orcs want to stomp every Dwarf back into the dirt from whence he spawned.

The beginnings of this hatred can never be known for certain, but are somewhat explored in “The Tale of Gorin the Dwarf”, a folktale told by Orc Shalaks around campfires. The tale, in brief, tells of an infamous Dwarf named Gorin who is popularly held (by Dwarves and Orcs equally) as the most efficient and prolific Orc-slayer that ever lived. His greatest accomplishment was during the nearly mythic Siege of Orcaum, the “Camelot” of Orc myths. Gorin dug a tunnel beneath the walls of the city, but didn't stop there. According to tradition, he proceeded to dig his tunnels in a spiral, finally coming up under the Orc King Hulsfe's throne. The city was completely destroyed, with all inhabitants save for those scouts who were in the field killed when the city collapsed.

Since the days of Gorin, who was also killed by his destruction of Orcaum, there has been no healing. Dwarves, for centuries have seemed content to kill all Orcs on sight, bar none. The same is a general rule for Orcs: Kill all Dwarves, Everywhere, Forever. There is no contact between the two. Even the Elves have been known to show distaste for the Dwarves' singular obsession with slaughtering the Orcs. Granted, Dwarves seem to hate all living things besides Orcs (Humands and Elves as well), Orcs just have the worst time of it. One theory, proposed by an ancient text (The Fjorn Prophecies) found in an Elf tomb, hypothesized that the Dwarves, already a deeply mysterious and unknowable entity, may have seen something in Orcs, that by their very existence threatened the Dwarves. Or perhaps the old tales which relate the creation of Orcs was mistaken on the identity of their Creator. Perhaps the Dwarves, proven capable of animating stone and clay golems, are merely attempting to destroy a tool they felt has gotten out of hand.

Humans – Orcs don't know what to think about Humans. Humans never seem content with finding a niche and sticking with it. They're always trying new things and hitting every point on the morality scale at the same time. It would be better for Orcs if they could say that Humans were all bad, or all good, or a good mix. But they can't, because there's no average Human.

To Orcs, every Elf comes with a set of rules that they can be expected to follow. An Elf will be posh (to varying degrees), good with a longsword (but no shields) and will always expect Orcs to be inbred idiots with no concept of linking verbs. But a Human? You might as well role dice on what's true about any one Human. Of course, this has led to a very strange phenomenon among Orcs: The generational friend. Humans live such short lives that Orcs often pity them because they can never have enough time to “do it all”, as they say. Then again, a lot of other Orcs now think that Humans are uniquely blessed. Orcs know full well what can happen if one lives too long (See: Elves) and so sometimes think that living only one century would be good for the soul, teaching one to be more carefree and willing to really live. For that reason, many Orcs who make friends among Humans live amongst their friend's descendants, a friend of the family who'll outlive most of the family by a good couple of centuries. Elves tend to think this is a “hobby”, like butterfly collections or pets. It's probably not.

Likewise, Humans have mixed feelings on Orcs. While they can see them as brutish and horrid monsters, this feeling is only really pronounced in areas directly on the Human-Orc borders. Humans further from the border will have far more varying degrees of this, with some even openly favoring the Orcs. It really boils down to individual Kingdoms and Empires' relationships with Orcs, and the amount of Orc Adventurers in a given region. Certain kingdoms are avoided more than others during the Winter Excursions, and thus receive more Orc trade in Spring and Summer. Orc Adventurers also generally try to leave a good impression with those they meet, if only so they can go anywhere without a lynch mob following.

To summarize, both sides don't know what to make of the other, and so sort of agree to disagree, and try to judge only individuals. Does it work? Occasionally. Again, further from the border, more acceptance.

Gnomes – Note: Don't know if I care enough to have Gnomes. Didn't really think the setting as a whole through. Oh well. Gnomes serve the Elves in a very similar capacity as the Goblins do the Orcs. In fact, some believe that Gnomes and Goblins are exactly as similar as Elves and Orcs.

Orcs, very simply, see the Gnomes as little Elves. Except without the parts they respected, like martial mastery, and more of the stuff they disliked, like magic. Gnomes serve the Elves as powerful enchanters and dealers of mass death on the battlefield, preferably far from the battlefield.

And as for their part, the Gnomes don't particularly despise the Orcs. In fact, much of the seemingly unbiased essays and treatises written about Orcs come from Gnome scholars. It was even a Gnome, Maxentius Callum Risillius, who penned the works that first noted the possible biological connection between Orcs and Elves.

If anyone can come up with something better, seriously, let me know.

Halflings – Halflings, eerily enough, serve Humans in the same way as Gnome and Goblins serve Elves and Orcs. Not in any official capacity like the previous, but still in great numbers and with great loyalty. Halflings appear to have no kingdoms of their own, living under whichever human government fits their needs better. Whereas Goblins are bankers and Gnomes are enchanters and scholars, Halflings are typically renowned for being thieves, assassins, and diplomats. And also like Goblins and Gnomes, some have considered the possibility that they are related to the other two. This is obvious when one considers the more archaic name for Halflings, Ghauflin.

Orcs are mistrustful of Halflings. It's hard for Orcs to conceptualize just how many lies a Halfling could be telling you. Is he an assassin hiding as a diplomat? Is he a thief hiding as an assassin (robs you and then never does the “job”)? Is he a diplomat stealing secrets and then assassinating once he has them? Simply put, Orcs would rather not associate with them if they could.

Of course, Halflings love Orcs. They're big, their noisy, and they make great alibi (“Why would you think I killed that man? That Orc was drinking all night! It was probably him.”).


Goblins - Goblins serve the Orcs as a client race. They primarily work as the merchants, tradesmen, auxiliary, and occasionally craftsmen (for very fine detail work) and bankers of Orc society, handling most of the monetary exchanges with outsiders. Goblins, as mentioned above, enjoy an enormous amount of autonomy for these services. And much like their possible cousins, the Halflings and Gnomes, they are impossible to bribe away. Many an Elf has tried. No coin is good enough. They seem almost bound by magic to serve.

Orcs, again as mentioned above, have some misgivings about the whole arrangement. While they value what the Goblins do for them, Orcs in general look at the whole thing as a personal failing. The community was unable to do something, and so creatures from outside had to make up the deficiency. The amount they feel this way varies from Orc to Orc, but it's plain there's more of a gap between Orc and Goblin than any of the other relationships (Elf and Gnome, Human and Halfling). Orcs don't make Goblins act according to the same rules as Orcs. Orcs don't see them as the same community.

Opinions?

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-12, 06:19 PM
200 views and no opinions (besides SpaceBadger, of course)? :smallfrown:

Weirdlet
2012-01-12, 06:43 PM
Quite nifty. You've got everything I look for in an orc rewrite, giving them a sound, internally consistent culture that still leaves them easily regarded as very dangerous to outsiders. I've liked the slightly alien feel that playing around with lifespans can give to a race, and it's cool to see someone extrapolating from the 'we can live a long, long time before we're killed' side.

I have this strange image in my head of an orc bearhugging some very put-out elf, shouting "Cousin!"

This is a nice bit of worldbuilding all based around the changes to one race. I'm curious about the relationships with Elves, Orcs and Humans and their 'mini-me's'- how did that situation come about?

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-12, 07:45 PM
Quite nifty. You've got everything I look for in an orc rewrite, giving them a sound, internally consistent culture that still leaves them easily regarded as very dangerous to outsiders. I've liked the slightly alien feel that playing around with lifespans can give to a race, and it's cool to see someone extrapolating from the 'we can live a long, long time before we're killed' side.

I actually thought about the whole “long lifetime” thing while reading Lord of the Rings, and I realized that some of those elf characters, Elrond particularly, probably knew every single member of Aragorn's family, going back centuries. I guess I liked the concept of a really really really old friend of the family.


I have this strange image in my head of an orc bearhugging some very put-out elf, shouting "Cousin!"

Definitely lol'd on that one. :smallsmile:


This is a nice bit of worldbuilding all based around the changes to one race. I'm curious about the relationships with Elves, Orcs and Humans and their 'mini-me's'- how did that situation come about?

I always felt that, if there are a couple of large, powerful forces in a setting, then smaller powers will fall by the wayside. So, it could make sense for the smaller peoples to have allied themselves with the big. And if it indeed turns out that the three smaller races are all related, then if something apocalyptic happens and the major powers become unbalanced (say, the Orcs are destroyed), then they can re-balance the setting (lot more Gnomes and Halflings seem to be running around).

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-14, 06:27 PM
Beliefs

Creation
In the beginning there was Night. It was cold, and it was Eternal. All the souls of the cosmos, all that was the cosmos, lay in an endless slumber. Then, as he slept, the spirit Ur-Nadua was startled by a terrible nightmare. He awoke with a start, and found the Night appalling. In fear, he began to tremble and quake. He sought courage though, and began to sing, at first in a whisper, and then in a roar:

Solceal Urune gerru
From Night there springs a Dawn
Sufer u Hulhoen
The First Fire of the Day
Soce-i Hulhoen arbada
Into Night it will return
Ignia aleua
But always again
Urune Urunekaroth
It arises in Triumph

And from his song, a spark appeared, the First Dawn of the World. As the flame grew, it awoke the Children, the spirits of the world. They marveled at the warmth of the fire, and slowly encircled it. But Night saw this, and clawed at the fire. It burned itself, and drew back from the flames brightness. Ur-Nadua led the Spirits in a Dance of Fire, all the while singing his song. All the cosmos rejoiced at the Awakening, and danced faster and faster. But in their exultation, they forgot to fear the Night. The Night attacked once more, its savagery and malice born in its silent shriek, drowning out all the sound of music with silence. Night, though, was pushed away again. But in it's wake it had put many spirits to sleep, more spirits than. These spirits, as a final conscious will, drew themselves together and became stone as they fell back into sleep.

The Awakened could not rouse them from their slumber through any means, and so elected to seal them away, where the Night could not take them. The Awakened leapt into the heavens and watched over the Fallen henceforward. But they were weakened now, and could not fully stand against the Night. So, every Day is chased by the Night, only to be defeated by Dawn once again. This whirl of light, the fires of the Awakened and the glimmering Eye of Night, slowly coaxed the Fallen back to new life. Yet, awakened by fire and cold, and sealed in earthen clay, these spirits became mortals and lived upon the land. All mortal beings are a paradox, Fire and Cold. Their spirits are yet eternal, and change their form between the short spans of life. Every reincarnation must strive for Atavism, the return to the Awakened State, or “Ba'Rok”. Mortals who live poorly, who shun life, who live as if they dream indeed slowly return to Sleep until they Dream no more and Night claims them again.

But those who exult life, those who dance and sing, those who life every Day as if it were the Last slowly awaken. After many lifetimes, if the Spirit is ready to Awaken, they make the pilgrimage to a place of harshness and terrible pain. There, in the fires of perdition they shed their flesh and Awake from the dream. At the end of time, the Awakened shall once again have the strength to banish Night, and Eternal Day shall finally reign uninterrupted for all of Eternity.

Keeindron
2012-01-14, 11:29 PM
I would totally steal this if it fit my campaign. Sadly, I don't see fitting these orcs into a prehistoric campaign setting. :frown:

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-18, 12:45 AM
I would totally steal this if it fit my campaign. Sadly, I don't see fitting these orcs into a prehistoric campaign setting. :frown:

I'll take that as a compliment, although you'd think Orcs would always fit in a prehistoric setting. :smallsmile:

Thinking about just doing a whole Setting thread, since I inadvertently made a whole setting rather than just build up a single race. Will put it up eventually.

Keeindron
2012-01-18, 04:34 PM
You know what? I'm going to modify my world so that these guys are in xD

Tingel
2012-01-25, 11:26 AM
While most would say their faces are feral and monstrous, their basic bone structure is nearly identical to that of Elves though with a decided “squared-off” effect where one would expect the pointier aspects of Elven features.
As the basic bone structure is exactly the same between dwarves, humans, elves, orcs, giants etc., this does not say much. The skeletons of these races are identical, only differing in proportion. I also don't understand your repeated usage of the subjunctive mood here. In a description of a race, one expects definite statements, unless it is written as an in-character flavor text, which yours is not.
"Squared-off" is a weird word, understandably put into quotation marks. Doesn't "to square off" mean "to assume a fighting stance" or "to engage" etc.? I assume you mean that orc faces are less pointy, but rather angular and square-jawed. You should rephrase, unless I am missing the point.


This is also true for their ears, nearly elf-like but squared on the end, like a playing card shape as some (admittedly dubious) scholars suggest.
Why are they dubious? Either the orc ears are thusly shaped (then the scholars are not dubious), or they are not (then the statement is misleading and useless). You might find my criticism pedantic, but you need to understand that you do not give much information about what an orc looks like, beyond height and skin color. So by casting doubt on the few details you do provide, you are harming your purpose.


Orc arms are also slightly longer than would be proportional for a human. This means that, to a human hoping to dodge an Orc's blade, one must overcompensate because the arm is longer than it looks.
Compensate, not overcompensate. The latter would imply that the human defender is doing more than necessary, which in this case also means more than is good for him. Since the orcish arm is longer than the human fighter is used to, he has to compensate for this additional reach. The "over-" is just wrong.


These are just a few examples for the issues your post has. I realize that this might not be the kind of feedback you were hoping for, and you should feel free to disregard it. But style and internal consistency matter, at least to me, and a lack thereof prevents me from enjoying and (subsequently) from seriously considering homebrew that might otherwise contain good ideas.

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-25, 05:28 PM
As the basic bone structure is exactly the same between dwarves, humans, elves, orcs, giants etc., this does not say much. The skeletons of these races are identical, only differing in proportion. I also don't understand your repeated usage of the subjunctive mood here. In a description of a race, one expects definite statements, unless it is written as an in-character flavor text, which yours is not.
"Squared-off" is a weird word, understandably put into quotation marks. Doesn't "to square off" mean "to assume a fighting stance" or "to engage" etc.? I assume you mean that orc faces are less pointy, but rather angular and square-jawed. You should rephrase, unless I am missing the point.

Rephrased, hopefully so that "Squared-off" is more clear. Thank you for pointing that out. Sometimes I make mistakes while I write and I switch between academic and in-universe forms too readily without realizing. A little embarrassing for an English Major.


Why are they dubious? Either the orc ears are thusly shaped (then the scholars are not dubious), or they are not (then the statement is misleading and useless). You might find my criticism pedantic, but you need to understand that you do not give much information about what an orc looks like, beyond height and skin color. So by casting doubt on the few details you do provide, you are harming your purpose.

I get you. I was deliberately trying to be ambiguous. I figured that I'd let other people imagine what the Orcs looked like. I suppose that was in error.


Compensate, not overcompensate. The latter would imply that the human defender is doing more than necessary, which in this case also means more than is good for him. Since the orcish arm is longer than the human fighter is used to, he has to compensate for this additional reach. The "over-" is just wrong.

Good catch. I worked that word over a few times in my head before I set it down. I was trying to imply that fighting an Orc was like fighting an optical illusion. He looks normally proportioned, but when he swings his sword you realize it's just a bit longer. Word changed.


These are just a few examples for the issues your post has. I realize that this might not be the kind of feedback you were hoping for, and you should feel free to disregard it. But style and internal consistency matter, at least to me, and a lack thereof prevents me from enjoying and (subsequently) from seriously considering homebrew that might otherwise contain good ideas.

I reworked the paragraph you outlined as faulty. I agree with you wholeheartedly about internal consistency. I will try to do better. But, if there are no more grammatical/stylistic concerns, did you at least enjoy/care for the content?

Tingel
2012-01-25, 06:45 PM
Some of the content is rather imaginative; I really enjoy the concept of the Patrols for example. Other parts however seem less plausible, or would at least require more explanation for me to understand them.

For example, you say that orcs do not lie. That seems odd. According to your information they do in fact commit and punish crimes, so they do understand the concept of right and wrong, yet fail (like all mortals) to always adhere to the ideals of their society. Now if they can break the rules by stealing (presumably), murdering or touching a priestess, then why not by telling a lie? Without an explanation for this peculiar exception, it just seems random. I mean, why would I commit a crime if I know I cannot possibly get away with it (since as you claim, they always freely inform their kin about their crimes)? It just seems a bit counter-intuitive, if not insane. Also, and maybe even more importantly, if they do not differentiate between individual responsibility and tribe responsibility (you were calling this their hive mentality I think), then how can they punish individuals at all?

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-01-25, 07:45 PM
Fixed, hopefully. Orcs do differentiate when an Individual commits a crime, though they take a measure of blame for not preventing the offense. Thank you for taking the time to read through. :smallsmile:

JadeVamp
2012-01-28, 07:37 PM
... This is amazing. I may have to make a tribe of orcs that is like this...

This has to be one of the most perfect things for my setting. A big theme in my campaign is that "evil" isn't always evil and "good" isn't always good. If nothing else, I'm using these guys as "Savage Elves".

As for the gnomes, you could classify them as they are in Pathfinder: Like slightly more normal Fey. I like the whole Orc/Goblin, Elf/Gnome, and Human/Halfling arrangement, but the near-fey gnomes are a bit more fun due to their simultanious crazy fun/dangerous aspect.