Masterworking Pricing

[Vanzanze]

So, reading the post about in-game metals pricing got me to thinking:
Does anyone here use house rules when determining the prices of masterwork goods?

For me, I decided that 301 gp for a MW dagger is bogus and stupid, since no one in their right mind would ever buy one, and only ever sell them from loot unless they were being used, whereas dropping a mere 150 gp extra (perhaps the loot from the MW dagger) on a suit of full plate you were planning on buying anyway seems rather ridiculous for the amount of Crafting that had to go into it in order for it to be made.

What I did to compensate was look at the rich history of "starting gear packages" (both in-books and what I remember from DMing all these years) and determined that most level 1 PCs go for a longsword/leather-type setup. Longswords are 15 gp, so I decided that multiplying by 20 would get me close to 315 gp (the old MW price), and that I could live with masterwork daggers (which would be more handy/decorative than their mundane counterparts and more people would want access to them) being 20 gp. Leather scales from 15 gp to 150 gp (close to the old MW price), which invents a scalar of x10. Thus, that full plate - which has many more parts that have to be skillfully crafted than leather armor - is astronomical in price compared to lesser counterparts. Start adding other materials or enchantments, and you start approaching something that would lead you to believe that only a few people in the world have ever even finished making a suit of masterwork mithral full plate, let alone have the knowledge and ability to even start.

What do you folks think?

[chadmeister]

I'm ok with your changes on masterwork weapons prices. MW dagger seems a little low, but thats fine.

Your Masterwork armor prices seem high. While it's pretty, the main benefit the owner of that Masterwork Full Plate is going to see is "It can be enchanted". The rest of the masterwork armor bonuses only apply to skill penalties. If you're wearing Full Plate, you don't care what your Hide and Move Silently skills are.

[Greenish]

The base price of full plate already reflects on how difficult it is to make. You can buy a +1 armour of most any other type cheaper than non-MW full plate.

Of course, full plate isn't that great a way to gain AC in the first place.


[Edit]: Oh, and you think MW dagger has silly price? How about MW quarterstaff, 600 gp for a stick? :smalltongue:

[chadmeister]

[Edit]: Oh, and you think MW dagger has silly price? How about MW quarterstaff, 600 gp for a stick? :smalltongue:

It's a really nice stick. I spent a year wandering the forest looking for it.

[Lycar]

Remember that the reason why prices in D&D 3.5 etc. are Bane vs. Verisimilitude is because Money Equals Power.

Thanks to the Christmas Tree Effect, the fact that a lot of your characters power will come from gear (unless you are a full caster - then your gear is just bonus) and thus the more powerful gear needs to be ridiculously expensive so that only sufficiently high-level characters can afford them.

Imagine if any 1st-level noob adventurer could afford a shiny +1 Sword of Obviousity just by grinding enough voles and selling their pelts. Inconceivable! :smallbiggrin:

So if you want to make prices more 'realistic' keep in mind that that will make a lot of choices, well, obsolete. If your damage is mostly coming from Sneak Attacks for example, you care little about the size of the die that delivers it.

But then again, daggers are the iconic backstabbing weapon anyway, so this may not be a bad thing.

But scaling down +5 Swords from the price of three kingdoms to only one kingdom might make them affordable a lot earlier for a determined adventurer. Just something to keep in mind. ;)

[Riverdance]

I agree with lycar that scaling down the cost of magic weapons and more powerful things could definitely be dangerous or complicated, but I like the idea of scaling masterwork items appropriately. I had never thought about it before, but 300 does seem like a large number to add on just to make a masterwork dagger. I will take this into account in my game, thank you.

[Salanmander]

As far as verisimilitude goes, it makes sense for a masterwork dagger to be a higher multiple of the cost of a normal dagger than for a longsword.

Imagine the worst dagger you think someone might sell. It's probably a rough blade, likely ground, or maybe even chipped flint, lashed to a handle. On the other hand, even your basic longsword model is going to be made by a competent blacksmith, be solidly attached to the pommel, and probably have at least some counterweighting.

For the real life equivalent, consider the cheapest recorder you can find ($3?), and a very nice recorder designed for practicing musicians ($800?). Then consider the cheapest flute you can find ($300?) and a very nice flute designed for practicing musicians ($2000?). The ratios are off because the lower end of quality is lower for the recorders.

[Vanzanze]

Oh, I admit that the scaling has problems. I just found it more "realistic" than +300/+150 for stuff. The quarterstaff is another perfect example of this.

A sliding scale, perhaps, that changes with the base price of the item? Higher on the low end and lower on the high? But, there, you run the risk of alienating people with complicated mathematics. Not a problem for me (mathematician ho!), but I generally run with art majors and the like.

But, I also try and think more about the motivation to create for the crafters, here. Taking Salanmander's example, it's the reason kids usually get exposed to wind instruments via crappy plastic recorder rather than fine polished metal flute; the recorders are cheaper and more durable. So is the chintzy flint dagger. But Masterwork items are seen as status symbols in a lot of places: the Rolex/etc. watch, the Coach purse, the Armani suit. Not just anyone can sit down and crank out a bona fide Stradivarius from a wood kit and some catgut, nor would they really want to try. But, just about anyone can afford a really nice-looking letter opener or decorative rapier for their mantelpiece.

So, the crafters who are interested in profit work the low-end materials and make the MW daggers, low-end swords, etc., while the really truly accomplished craftsmen invest in spells and such that help them craft the truly elaborate and magnificent sets of high-end armor (and they mark up the sh*t out of them). It's not because the crafters on the low end couldn't eventually make something like a MW Full Plate set ... it's just that they're not set up for it like the other guy is.

[Alienist]

Step 1 - Make an at will item of Unseen Crafter
Step 2 - Churn out hundreds of masterwork staves every day.
Step 3 - Kill all gnomes!
Step 4 - Profit :D

As an aside - the price for masterwork armour goes way up once you include the special materials - e.g. Mithral.

[Vanzanze]

As an aside - the price for masterwork armour goes way up once you include the special materials - e.g. Mithral.

Absolutely. And I think that for using more of said special material in the crafting of the new item, the cost of said item should scale similarly.