Player Psychology

[Ardantis]

I am currently DMing a small, intimate 2-player game with close friends. This is the kind of game where we all kick back on a Friday or a Saturday night with some brews and take a smoke break to talk about the game and our characters and the story in the middle. The players are new to DnD, having played only an entry-level module before this, and one is new to RPGs entirely (although his parents played DnD in the '70s). Our first session was a real success, we all had a great time, but there are some psychological aspects to how the players approach the game which I would like to address during the next session.

The characters are level 6, and Tier 3; we have a Duskblade (the newbie), a Wildshape Ranger/MoMF, and my DMPC Bard (an investigator, largely noncombat, helps drive the narrative).

Here's the problem: The Duskblade is unsure/not confident of how/when to attack, and the agressive Ranger milks one wildshape form without shifting.

e.g. The Duskblade completely changes any combat he enters, as he can wipe out monsters just by breathing. Channel Spell and Leap Attack end things, but it is like pulling teeth to get him to decide to enter combat! He wants to hang back, but HE'S THE DUSKBLADE.

Meanwhile, the Ranger spent the entirety of last session as a bugbear. While he did survive combat against some Grells (barely, and as the unnecessary meatshield), his major contribution to the party was from the bugbear's heightened senses (darkvision and scent).

TL;DR How do I induce a Duskblade to become more confident and attack more often? How do I encourage an aggressive Wildshape Ranger to take a leap of faith and try new forms?

[Demons_eye]

An easy way for the Wildshape Ranger/MoMF is to have another one show up, and show him how much powerful other forms are. A person you are looking for is someone hes looking for perhaps? Hes high away so the new shifter changes to a flight form to get him or underwater. Same can be said for the duskeblade. Showing both ingame what they could do might help.

[Vanzanze]

How do I induce a Duskblade to become more confident and attack more often? How do I encourage an aggressive Wildshape Ranger to take a leap of faith and try new forms?

Especially for the Duskblade, I think adding flavor to what he does in combat, actively describing him debilitating his foes on heavy-damage rolls ("Your swing pierces the beast's thick hide, making him bleed from the right flank. It staggers a bit, adjusting to compensate for the pain." or "You take out the gnoll's ankle tendon, causing him to drop to his knee on that side. He's not going to be much longer at this rate."), tends to make even the most reserved of people sit up and take notice. After all, they're just monsters. The heroes are supposed to win (in most cases), so why not make them want to?

Are the characters tied to deities in any way? If so, perhaps the Duskblade's deity could whisper suggestions into his ear, or make glowing lights appear above the next adversary to be targeted. Kind of cheeze, but the RP might be worth it, as far as opening up the connection between deity and Duskblade.

For the Ranger, perhaps the gods/universe start determining the best animal form to take instead of what he wants. About to enter a combat where a Displacer Beast would rule the day and he still wants a Bugbear? The shift is a bit off, and he finds himself on all fours. Must not have the 'hang' of shifting just yet...?

[Shades of Gray]

For the ranger, have him face a flying enemy.

[Ardantis]

Demons_Eye- I like that approach, and it would work particularly well with the Ranger. We are in a city now, so such a mentor character appearing would be quite an event. The Duskblade is part of an order of Duskblades working for the King, so there is the opportunity for mentorship there, as well.

Vanzanze- Adding more combat flavor would most certainly work wonders- I just never connected it with this particular problem. Thank you. I'm working on antagonists now, and will keep in mind how to make the combats more visceral.

Unfortunately, the Duskblade is secular (noble order of knights background), and so is the Ranger (deserted by man, raised by elves), but the Ranger not having the "hang" of shifting is something I like. I would rather use the "mentor" approach, because it preserves player choice, but would consider making shifting less reliable. Unfortunately, I have not had that chance, as he started and ended our first session as a bugbear, without ever shifting.

Shades of Grey- I appreciate your comment, and I would wholeheartedly agree were it not for the fact that we faced a flying opponent- a warlock- and the Ranger's response (as he was the only person who could see it at night with his darkvision) was to point it out to the Duskblade and remind him that he had the swift fly spell. The Duskblade proceeded to fly up and one-shot the warlock, ending the encounter. I think a more direct way of facing the Ranger's analysis paralysis would be more effective.

[Madwand99]

I beleive wildshape rangers can only turn into animals. Humanoids, such as bugbears, are not valid targets. Further, they do not gain qualities such as scent or darkvision from the transformation. My favorite wildshape form is a deionychus. I'd reccommend that as an alternative, it's quite effective. There's nothing wrong with him favoring a single form.

The duskblade... no idea what to do about that. A duskblade that doesn't want to fight? Tell him to grow a pair or play a different character.

[Grendus]

I beleive wildshape rangers can only turn into animals. Humanoids, such as bugbears, are not valid targets. Further, they do not gain qualities such as scent or darkvision from the transformation. My favorite wildshape form is a deionychus. I'd reccommend that as an alternative, it's quite effective. There's nothing wrong with him favoring a single form.

The duskblade... no idea what to do about that. A duskblade that doesn't want to fight? Tell him to grow a pair or play a different character.

Master of Many Forms from CV lets you turn into almost anything by the time you reach the end of the PrC. It also lets you gain Ex abilities at level 7. It was designed for druids (and is an absolutely horrific PrC for them), but for Wildshape Rangers all you give up is sub-par spellcasting and a gimped animal companion anyways.

I'd suggest using a druid as a mentor for the Ranger. I presume this is a higher level game since the Ranger is getting the bugbear's senses, so a Druid would have some of his additional forms as well, which would give you some variety to show off.

As for the Duskblade, sounds like he's either a roleplayer who doesn't think his character would attack so brutally or thinks he's a caster. Have the Bard start heckling him, he'll charge.

[Ardantis]

Madwand99- Swordsage'd by Grendus, the Master of Many Forms prestige class allows humaniod transformations at level 1, so bugbear is a legal target. I was unaware that darkvision and scent were Ex abilities (never looked them up, assumed they were mundane), and thus not appropriated on transformation. I suppose my player will have to wait until he reaches level 7 to gain those abilities. However, the point I am trying to make is that he chose the bugbear as a form that is above average strength, but can still communicate and has decent detection abilities (plus a racial listen and spot bonus). I'm sure that the deinonychus is a fantastic form, but my player has not transformed into one because he is too busy being a bugbear. How do I convince my player to branch out?

Also, the problem with the Duskblade runs far deeper than telling him to grow a pair. His girlfriend wrote his character background, which paints him as a warrior that is loathe to cause violence because it would upset the memory of his deceased mother. Thus, he only fights when it is absolutely necessary. I need an RP way to convince him to be more aggressive, or at least more confident in his skills.

Grendus~

The game is at level 6, I was mistaken in allowing the Ranger to gain the darkvision and scent abilities of a bugbear at this level. This means that a druid mentor would have to be a few levels higher to show off some forms. I think that's a great idea.

As for the Duskblade, he is, as explained, a roleplayer loathe to attack so brutally. I think having the Bard lean on him a little is a fantastic idea.

EDIT: And I will try it.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have a vision of his mother show up in a dream, berating him for being a coward in combat. "I did not raise a coward, your cowardice brings dishonor on the family name! Why do you run from glorious combat so?"

[Dr_S]

2 words... ZOMBIE MOM!

[Daftendirekt]

2 words... ZOMBIE MOM!

Mombie? Yes.

[absolmorph]

Have a vision of his mother show up in a dream, berating him for being a coward in combat. "I did not raise a coward, your cowardice brings dishonor on the family name! Why do you run from glorious combat so?"
Dishonor on you, dishonor on your family, dishonor on your cow...

[Vanzanze]

Dishonor on you, dishonor on your family, dishonor on your cow...

wince

"Always with the cow, mom. Always with the cow."

--

But I agree with Gavinfoxx here. Mom needs to show up and admit that she was wrong. Perhaps she can use the time-honored line "Evil wins when good men do nothing."

[Grendus]

I strongly disagree with having his mom tell him she changed her mind, at least without discussing it with him first. That's a part of his backstory, and it sounds like one that he's holding on to pretty tightly. Rewriting it because you don't like how his character roleplays it out is kind of a jerk move. At bare minimum if you decide to go that route, talk to him about it first. It could be he just doesn't see the problem and genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing by staying back and acting "in character".

[Dr_S]

I strongly disagree with having his mom tell him she changed her mind, at least without discussing it with him first. That's a part of his backstory, and it sounds like one that he's holding on to pretty tightly. Rewriting it because you don't like how his character roleplays it out is kind of a jerk move. At bare minimum if you decide to go that route, talk to him about it first. It could be he just doesn't see the problem and genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing by staying back and acting "in character".

I completely agree with you, players want to play THEIR characters, the more restrictions you place on them without solid reason that they understand/agree with, the less fun they have.

Violence Begets Violence... they saying is generally used for retalitory relationships, but I think it works here.
Every time you get him to strike at an enemy, it'll become easier and easier, because he likely has no clear line as to what's acceptable as far as violence goes.

Undead will be especially useful for this because of how people react to them. You may find that low CR brainless undead are the trick, you don't have to make a full combat out of it, but if they start appearing and you have him strike them down eventually it'll become second nature, he'll strike without thinking, then you start pushing the line as to what's acceptable to react to with violence, undead, monstrous creatures, evil humanoids, etc. etc.

If you have the time, you can turn any peaceful person into a nigh sociopath, simply by training them to respond with violence.

[Madwand99]

I think throwing mindless undead at him is a great idea. You can also use lots of animated constructs. Use lots of them, at low level and low AC so he gets used to mowing them down like wheat. Follow it up with vermin and/or mindless plant creatures. Work your way up the intelligence chain. If he runs away, the mooks put some hurt on innocent villagers.

[Ardantis]

I won't respond to each post individually this time, but instead to each idea:

As for fighting undead, that was my first idea- I had the team fighting aberrations, disgusting tentacled Grell that had been dragging commoners into the sewers of the city. He was loathe to attack even then, and his partner (who stupidly charged in) almost died. Of course, when he did attack, he brutalized the Grell, with only one escaping.

As for "mombie," this goes even deeper than what a simple seance or dream sequence could easily repair. Once again, his girlfriend (who lives in Texas, we're in New York) wrote his backstory, and she backed up the pacifist sentiment with several emotional contingencies.

1) He is the product of her unwilling union with the invading general who destroyed her village and killed her family and friends, so she has a powerful aversion to violence, particularly war, of any kind.

2) He was a big kid growing up, and accidentally hurt several friends while rough-housing during the course of his childhood. Enter personal guilt.

3) His village was destroyed by another marauding army that murdered his mother. This could go towards pacifism or vengeance.

4) He escaped with the help of a defector from the army, who trained him how to use his lumbering physique effectively in combat. His mentor was then killed in battle by pursuing soldiers while he escaped. This is the most promising aspect of his background, and is what psychologically allows him to even BE a Duskblade.

He's part of the King's Elite Guard, which explains his abilities and level, but now he's been placed on an independent crack team with a city investigator and a mysterious stranger, and he needs to decide for himself whom to attack and when.

[Madwand99]

I'd have dispicable fun with this. Keep using mindless mooks, but make the consequences of his inaction horrible. Innocent people have to die, ALOT, because of his inaction. Make it obvious. Maybe that same rapaging army from his boyhood comes back, killing more families and impressing youngsters into their army, or worse. The story can either be a tragedy about the conseqences of inaction, or a triumph of good vs. evil, either way makes a good story. If he fights but delays a few rounds, crying children scream at him for killing their mommy by being too late, etc.

[SpaceBadger]

I strongly disagree with having his mom tell him she changed her mind, at least without discussing it with him first. That's a part of his backstory, and it sounds like one that he's holding on to pretty tightly. Rewriting it because you don't like how his character roleplays it out is kind of a jerk move. At bare minimum if you decide to go that route, talk to him about it first. It could be he just doesn't see the problem and genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing by staying back and acting "in character".

QFT. With that backstory, I think the player is just roleplaying his character and should not be penalized or coerced to do something different. I think you need to talk with the player about how he really wants to play. Creating an awesome combat character with a backstory that makes him reluctant to fight seems a little... strange. What are the player's goals here? Maybe he would want a new character not crippled by his GF's backstory.

[Ardantis]

Mawand99, Spacebadger, thanks for your input.

I will, as a last resort, consider altering combat scenarios to give his inaction consequences. I believe that his inaction has already had consequences for his partner given the encounter I already gave them, as I have seen. I think this will also help to work out the Ranger's hesitancy to shift into effective forms.

As far as abandoning the character, we are not far enough into the game for this to be a concern- unless something happens in his relationship about which I am unaware. I am meeting with the player tomorrow to talk about his character, and more specifically to carefully go over his abilities so that he knows exactly what each of his abilities do and is confident in choosing them. As previously mentioned, he is new to roleplaying games.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Daftendirekt]

Dishonor on you, dishonor on your family, dishonor on your cow...

As much as I hate Eddie Murphy in that movie, I do enjoy that scene.

[Dr_S]

consequences for inaction might just be fun from a role playing aspect.

[Piggy Knowles]

Yeah, I'm in the "consequences for inaction" camp. You shouldn't necessarily have to ham it up. Just include battles that are more than team A meets team B in the battlefield with the intention of killing each other. Give the enemy goals other than straight up attacking your party.

Sometimes it can be as ham-fisted as "OH NO I'm going to start slaying orphans, RIGHT NOW, unless you stop me", but it doesn't have to be. Perhaps the enemy has really dangerous information, and they are trying to escape. Maybe the bad guys are in between your characters and a circle of Vrocks, getting ready to do their dance of ruin that will level a small village.

The point is, you put the characters in a situation where they have to act, and act correctly, or they face serious in-game consequences.

You can use similar tactics to pull your MoMF out of his box. Start adding some elements of intrigue or infiltration, where he needs to use his shapeshifting abilities to succeed. Maybe he's got to spy on a street gang, and turning into a stray dog would be just the thing. Or maybe he's got to impersonate a troglodyte clan leader. Who knows - just make him try new things. Honestly, once he gains some levels and can start turning into things like giants or fey, he'll probably start picking out new forms anyhow.

[jiriku]

Maybe this is a silly question, but why do you want to change anything? You have two players who are enjoying their characters, enjoying your game, and you're all having a good time together. This is working as intended; nothing is broken. Sometimes, a wise DM has to resist the urge to tinker.

Your players will naturally grow more confident with their characters as they get more experience under their belts. If they seem reluctant to perform certain actions, use it as a roleplaying opportunity. Have NPCs question or challenge their behavior - it's a great opportunity for them to get deeper in character and have a good time.

Edit: I'd encourage you to place a cost on inaction too, although not as a last resort and not with the intent of making the game more violent or more about character abilities. Heroes make decisions, and their decisions have big consequences. That's what makes them heroic. If a player shows his character to have strong principles, he's BEGGING you to challenge those principles, to draw sharp contrasts between the hero and the villain. Oppose the duskblade with a villain who resembles him in many ways, but who casually takes life whenever it's convenient to do so. Have the villain sneer that the he and the duskblade are the same on the inside. Then put the duskblade in a situation where violence is the best solution to his problem. Does he kill, and admit that the darkness within him is the same as that within his foe? Does he stand aside, and allow innocents to suffer for his inaction? Does he find a way to save the day without compromising his principles? That's heroic roleplaying!

[Darth Stabber]

I completely agree with you, players want to play THEIR characters, the more restrictions you place on them without solid reason that they understand/agree with, the less fun they have.

Violence Begets Violence... they saying is generally used for retalitory relationships, but I think it works here.
Every time you get him to strike at an enemy, it'll become easier and easier, because he likely has no clear line as to what's acceptable as far as violence goes.

Undead will be especially useful for this because of how people react to them. You may find that low CR brainless undead are the trick, you don't have to make a full combat out of it, but if they start appearing and you have him strike them down eventually it'll become second nature, he'll strike without thinking, then you start pushing the line as to what's acceptable to react to with violence, undead, monstrous creatures, evil humanoids, etc. etc.

If you have the time, you can turn any peaceful person into a nigh sociopath, simply by training them to respond with violence.

To quote Belkar: "Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for the rest of his life."

[Slipperychicken]

A good bit of Hamlet's plot revolved around a similar situation, which I find interesting. Enemies might have heard of the pacifist, and would either take advantage of it or taunt him. You could also have enemies harm civilians. In those cases, decide their actions in advance, so he can watch bad things happen to good people.

[Phaederkiel]

I agree in many points with jiriku (I´d make that evil clone his comrade-in-arms, ust to add drama), but I would go further.

I´d reward him for playing to his characters principles. Not every problem needs to be punched. Give them the possibilities to role play their way around encounters. Fights are not needed for a fun session. This way it will have far more impact whenever he DOES unsheath his sword.

I would not talk to him, but to the ranger guy. "is it okay if we shift focus away from the fighting stuff for a while? Your Character can gruff at the pacifist stuff, but please tell me, before you start gruffing."

[sreservoir]

To quote Belkar: "Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for the rest of his life."

of course, if you solve all his problems with violence, you've got a pretty good chance of having solved all the problems in the rest of his life with violence.

[Ardantis]

Thanks to everyone who posted to this thread.

And the Medal for Best Advice goes to...

(drumroll please)

jiriku!

I met with the player yesterday, and really, nothing is broken. I was DM-spazzing, like a mother on the first day of kindergarten.

All the player needed was to be guided through his character, and how to research and learn about his powers. We looked up his class abilities (Arcane Channeling, Quick Cast) and a few of his key spells (Shocking Grasp, True Strike, Dimension Hop) and talked about how they can be combined. I sent him on his way with the "assignment" to come up with at least 5 combos he could pull off during a turn, and in what circumstances he would use them.

Also, as an aside, he's trying to figure out how to break up with his girlfriend, but has to wait until she's not sick because he doesn't want to pull a Newt Gingrich. Thinking strategically (and compassionately).

As for the Ranger, he's fighting me, but nerfing his bugbear form (scent and darkvision are Extraordinary powers) has put him in a place to think. I'm curious to see what his new "all-purpose" form is. I'm tempted to push towards lvl 7 so he can get Large forms and shift 3X per day.