[PF] Is a spellslinger worth it???

[lfarbstein]

The wizard archetype spellslinger caught my my eye. It is the one that fuses guns and wizards. But is it worth it? You loose cantrips and 4 schools of spells, isnt that a bit much?

[Novawurmson]

It's ridiculously overpriced; Wizards are pretty powerful to begin with, though.

[SamBurke]

Well, lose Necromancy, Evocation, Abjuration, Enchantment.

You're still OK, though losing Abjuration will hurt. You have Transmutation, Illusion, and Conjuration.

[lfarbstein]

Wouldn't Evocation be a better choice than illusion???

[legomaster00156]

Wouldn't Evocation be a better choice than illusion???
Nope. Evocation is really rather useless, except for a few select spells. Illusion can duplicate any Conjuration or Evocation spell (albeit with only partial reality).

[Daftendirekt]

Yeah, so even with only 3 schools at your disposable, you still have loads more options than any martial character. Gotta keep perspective, this is 3.X we're talking about. :smallbiggrin:

[jmelesky]

Remember, opposition school in PF isn't the same as forbidden -- you can still use opposition spells, you just need to devote two slots to them. And you get a penalty if you're crafting things from those opposition schools. That's all.

Moreover, as a spellslinger, you're a wizard, which means you have access to Arcane Discoveries, one of which is Opposition Research (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/opposition-research), so you can eventually get those opposition schools back if you care to.

[legomaster00156]

Remember, opposition school in PF isn't the same as forbidden -- you can still use opposition spells, you just need to devote two slots to them. And you get a penalty if you're crafting things from those opposition schools. That's all.

Moreover, as a spellslinger, you're a wizard, which means you have access to Arcane Discoveries, one of which is Opposition Research (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/opposition-research), so you can eventually get those opposition schools back if you care to.
You can only take Opposition Research once, though.

[Corlindale]

It's pretty nice. The main advantage as I see it is that it allows you to boost the save DCs of your guncast spells with the gun's enhancement bonus - potentially a +5 to save dcs at the end. That's extremely powerful, you don't really get that kind of bonus anywhere else.

Combine with Dazing spell metamagic and a good area of effect spell, and you've got a really powerful combo. Perhaps throw in spell focus, elemental focus and spell perfection if you really want to get silly with your save DCs (that's a +13 total to the normal dc:smalleek:).

[Frosty]

Don't ban schools that have good Save-or-Lose spells, like Enchantment. The spellslinger gets to boost save DCs, so take advantage of that.

[Bhaakon]

Combine with Dazing spell metamagic and a good area of effect spell, and you've got a really powerful combo. Perhaps throw in spell focus, elemental focus and spell perfection if you really want to get silly with your save DCs (that's a +13 total to the normal dc:smalleek:).

The weird arcane gun rules strongly discourage against using it with AoE spells. If any one in the cone rolls a 20 on their save, your gun breaks or explodes.

[Crasical]

The weird arcane gun rules strongly discourage against using it with AoE spells. If any one in the cone rolls a 20 on their save, your gun breaks or explodes.

Wand of Mending?

Also, remember that you can only channel Ranged Touch Attacks, Rays, lines, or Cones through the arcane gun.

[Infernalbargain]

I'd likely ban divination, abjuration, evocation, and necromancy. Banning divination is fine because it's typically a noncom thing anyways. If I were to take arcane discovery, I'd get necromancy back for things like ray of exhaustion. Going with an enchantment focus sounds good when you combine it with persistent and other bad news.

[Crasical]

Why do people keep saying to focus on enchantment? So far the only enchantment you can send through your gun I've found are Crushing Despair and Waves of Ecstacy.

[Ravens_cry]

The trouble with enchantment is there is so many creature types, even in Core, that just say "No" to enchantment. The later in the game, the more you'll encounter this, even in creatures whose type isn't immune by default, not to mention spells that also say "No", whether in a limited, but potent, extent like 'Protection from X', to the total "No" of 'Mind Blank'.
In short, Enchantment is fun when it works, but it rarely works, at least in most campaign I have been in.

[Bhaakon]

Wand of Mending?

Costing you turn, basically.


Also, remember that you can only channel Ranged Touch Attacks, Rays, lines, or Cones through the arcane gun.

Cones are AoE.

[Crasical]

Costing you turn, basically.

Better than having it explode!


Cones are AoE.

That was for the benefit of the people advocating a Spellslinger Enchanter, as Enchantment has only two spells that fit the prerequisites to be sent through the gun.

[jaybird]

You can only take Opposition Research once, though.

Yeah, but Abjuration, Conjuration, Illusion, and Transmutation are 80% of the spells you really want.

[Andreaz]

Costing you turn, basically.



Cones are AoE.

Beats having the gun explode. That's also why you use two revolvers instead of a rifle. The spellslinger is overpriced like heel though. To put it back on an usable level I'd make it emulate an specialization...banning only one school and allowing you the standard gun tricks.

[Bhaakon]

Of course it beats having the gun explode (no one wants to eat half their HD in damage dice with no save), it's just major drawback of the mechanic wrt multiple target spells.