PDA

View Full Version : D&D Lore Question



Lord_Asmodeus
2012-01-09, 12:35 PM
Why are Pit Fiends the only Baatezu that don't have a more Baatezu-ish name, like Gelugon or Barbazu do? They aren't even called Pit Devils, just Pit Fiends. I know the name is a holdover, and I wouldn't necessarily want to change that bit, but why didn't they add a second name like they did with so many other Devils that sort of just had regular names (like Ice Devils and Bearded Devils as mentioned) Are there other Devils without Baatezu sounding names I missed?

Also, if you could name the Pit Fiends something in a more Baatezu-ey flair, what would it be?

Yora
2012-01-09, 01:00 PM
I know that in 2nd Ed. AD&D, Barbazu and Gelugon where the official names. For some reason, 3rd Ed. moved that more to the background and called them Noun Devils. I think 4th Edition went with that.
Pit Fiends had always been Pit Fiends, from what I know.

Lapak
2012-01-09, 01:05 PM
Goes back to early-early D&D, actually; OD&D and 1e. The various infernal types were "Type I Devil, Type II Devil, ... Type VI Devil." Same for demons. Some of the entries were expanded by mentioning the names of specific devils/demons of that type - for example, Balor was the name of a specific Type VI Demon - and those names got generalized to cover the whole type in 2e and beyond.

Pit Fiends didn't have an example name and so kept the generic title, is my guess.

hamlet
2012-01-09, 02:07 PM
Goes back to early-early D&D, actually; OD&D and 1e. The various infernal types were "Type I Devil, Type II Devil, ... Type VI Devil." Same for demons. Some of the entries were expanded by mentioning the names of specific devils/demons of that type - for example, Balor was the name of a specific Type VI Demon - and those names got generalized to cover the whole type in 2e and beyond.

Pit Fiends didn't have an example name and so kept the generic title, is my guess.

Bingo.

And they were called "pit fiends" pretty much because they were fiends from the deepest pit of hell. The background of them involved a lesser devil being thrown into a pit to be tortured for 999 days and would emerge a pit fiend.

They did, though, have individual names, just not specified in the original MM text.

bloodtide
2012-01-09, 02:34 PM
This is just one of the weird things about being human(or it's a glitch in the Matrix).

Most of the time, when something new is created, someone somewhere thinks up of a brand new word for whatever it is (such as a fantasy devil race). But some times, no one thinks of a word and the whatever just gets called something boring using an old word.

For example-we call a washing machine a washing machine as no one thought up of a new word. Cell phones, radios, dog food, video games, cable and so on.

And so it has been with the Pit Fiends. In 20 some years of lore, not a single person has added something like ''the Pittorzogi, known to mortals as the pit fiend.''

Zeta Kai
2012-01-09, 02:38 PM
Also, if you could name the Pit Fiends something in a more Baatezu-ey flair, what would it be?

This is the more interesting question, IMO.

I have given them the name/title/rank Kandugon in my most devil-oriented campaign, although I don't remember if my players ever learned that fact. It was considered a tightly-controlled secret, as it had become a source of shame for the pit fiends following some humiliating defeat during the Blood War in the ancient past. Nowadays, calling a pit fiend "Kandugon" was cause for a vendetta against anyone foolish enough to do so.

Cirrylius
2012-01-09, 03:24 PM
Kandugon
Did you have any particular inspiration for that?

Lapak
2012-01-09, 03:29 PM
Did you have any particular inspiration for that?Before their humiliating defeat, they were the most 'can-do!' devils around. Now other devils cruelly taunt them about their go-getter past.

Until the Pit Fiends rend them limb from limb and devour the pieces, anyway.

Lord_Asmodeus
2012-01-09, 04:04 PM
Personally I like Karazagor. Don't know why.

Zeta Kai
2012-01-09, 05:27 PM
Did you have any particular inspiration for that?

Well, in Core, the next most powerful devil are the Horned Devil (Cornugon) & the Ice Devil (Gelugon).

Cornugon - ugon = Corn
Gelugon - ugon = Gel
Corn + Gel = Candy Corn
Candy + ugon = Kandugon. It's simple math! :smallbiggrin:

... I'm just kidding, the original inspiration was lost, as it was years ago & I can't find the source file in my back-ups. But the equations above are probably better than the (most likely boring) truth. So enjoy the silly story. :smalltongue:

Urpriest
2012-01-09, 05:40 PM
Most of the others have names related to what they are. Cornugons have horns, Barbazu have beards, Gelugons are icy. So...what's Latin for Pit?

TheGeckoKing
2012-01-09, 06:57 PM
Google says Cavus, so I guess using Latin it would be Cavusagon? Cavaszu?

Lord_Asmodeus
2012-01-09, 07:04 PM
Or since they're Pit Lords, perhaps Cavudomigon or Cavudominuzus or something.

Rorrik
2012-01-10, 10:09 AM
Most of the others have names related to what they are. Cornugons have horns, Barbazu have beards, Gelugons are icy. So...what's Latin for Pit?
I noticed the "barba"zu from spanish and was going to go with Huezu.

RedWarlock
2012-01-10, 12:00 PM
Spanish derives from Latin, so, y'know, same difference. Some etymologies link 'barbarian' to Barba-, meaning bearded, for contrast to the commonly-shaved Romans, but I want to say that's been claimed as a false etymology.

-Gon is a hard-to-place suffix, it doesn't meant anything on its own, and all the common translators for synonyms of demon/devil/etc don't come close.

</linguist>

Notreallyhere77
2012-01-10, 12:42 PM
Here's another interpretation:
The name "Pit Fiend" is actually derived from Infernal words for "Lowest One," Pith Feent. The title went through several centuries of mispronunciation, translation, and artistic mistranslation to become Pit Fiend.
In fact, the words "Pit" and "Fiend" themselves have roots in Infernal in this manner. Referring to to evil outsiders as "fiends" ("Lowest") is a great compliment to those who understand the connection between the two words, though they may take offense to the obvious mispronunciation.

navar100
2012-01-10, 01:15 PM
Not Pitfiend specifically, but my DM uses "Batra" instead of devil and "Inari" instead of demon.