Evangelist thoughts/builds

[LaughingRogue]

Besides for "awful prereqs" what does the playground think of this class for a bard looking to go Perform Orator and if you were forced even if you don't like the class, what is a decent (20lv) build that you would do around this class?,

thanks for your thoughts and suggestions as always playground,

LaughingRogue

[Venger]

Besides for "awful prereqs" what does the playground think of this class for a bard looking to go Perform Orator and if you were forced even if you don't like the class, what is a decent (20lv) build that you would do around this class?,

thanks for your thoughts and suggestions as always playground,

LaughingRogue

well, first of all, I would suggest against entering as a bard because evangelist does not advance spellcasting, which is behind the curve for you as a bard anyway

that said, I really enjoy evangelist, I think it's a ton of fun. skills aren't all that bad for any halfway skillful class, and as with most you can enter at level 6. negotiator/persuasive is pretty horrible feat, but there have been feat taxes of worse feats, and more of them (frostrager, cryokineticist, cloud anchorite, shadowdancer, etc) plus it helps with skills you actually use.

enter this with a level (or 3 if you want its lore ability) of changeling rogue under your belt and you can be an absolute social interaction machine. the 10+int mod skillpoints/level help with skillreqs but what you really want is social interaction, which lets you:

take 10 on:Bluff, Diplomacy,Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive

make gather info checks in 1d4+1 x 10 minutes

sense motive as a full round action instead of 1 minute

now, imagine entering this class and being able to use a rushed diplomacy check at -5 as a full-round action while taking 10 as early as level 7. everyone is your friend all the time.

a build might look something like:

changeling rogue 2/paladin of (whatever)2/ evangelist 2/pious templar1/evangelist5/ exemplar 10

you will notice that while there is a flat number of ranks required to do fun things with perform oratory, there are no actual checks anywhere in the class features. this is good, since it means you can invest the bare minimum of perform (oratory) ranks at each requisite level and not have to add more.

you get skill mastery equal to 1+your int mod (you're a skillful class, you probably want it high, you'll have more points than you know what to do with, it'll be awesome) at lvl 4, but everything's already covered by social intuition (except disguise, oddly enough) so pick that and see if your DM will allow you to master some other skills so they're not wasted. if not, then them's the breaks, I guess.

then you enter exemplar and get skill mastery with 1+int mod of skills again. even assuming a modest int mod of +3 (it ought to be higher by lvl 11, but that's your problem) then you'll get another 4 skills (pick whichever ones you use the most, you've already got all the good ones) making a total of 10 skills mastered (wow!) and you get skill mastery with another one every exemplar level for a whopping 16 skill masteries assuming you have no int bonus at all. I defy you to name that many good skills, or much less skills that you gain any tangible benefit from being able to take 10 on.

take persuasive or negotiator (whicvever your guy uses more) at lvl 1,3, or 6 to get into evangelist

take true believer and weapon focus at lvl 1,3, or 6 for pious templar

take skill focus (whatever) at 9, for exemplar

put plenty of points into cha, it's what all the saves against your evangelist abilities are keyed off of and divine grace will give you it to your saves. you can also use that ACF that gives it to your armor instead if you care about that sort of thing since you've got heavy proficiency from paladin and don't need to worry about ASF. it'll get your AC pretty darn high for a nonmartial type. exemplar also gives it to your concentration checks and again to your fort save

put tons of points into int too, since it is useful for skills, skill mastery, and exemplar gives it to your initiative and reflex saves (which are your worst, and'll help you get a little more use out of your rogue evasion) pious templar 1 gives mettle, which is like evasion for fort/will and synergises well flavourwise with an evangelist/paladin for the whole religious crusader angle. your saves are really high:

fort: con + 2cha
ref: dex + cha + int
will: wis + cha

depending on what sort of niche you want your guy in, insightful reflexes might be a worthwhile investment depending on how much you care about dex. if your int mod's a lot higher than your dex, replacing it would be cool, then you'd get 2int + cha to your ref save. insightful reflexes is also available as one of your exemplar bonus feats, so you wouldn't even have to spend a real feat on it. while your will save "only" has 2 stats going to it and one of them is in all likelihood your dump stat (wis) your will save is by far your best with 16 levels of a good will save spread out across 3 classes (evangelist, exemplar, and pious templar, which also has a good fort) will give you a ridiculous +13 base to your will save (in addition to your wis and cha mods) so you shouldn't be worried.

you've got me really wanting to play this character now

enjoy!

[Person_Man]

It's a terrible PrC. It doesn't progress spellcasting, the Great Orator ability (Bardic music kinda sorta) is poorly written, and the Great Orator effects basically just duplicate a small number of spells which you would otherwise have access to anyway as a normal Bard or Bard/War Weaver or Bard/Some Other PrC.

[Venger]

It's a terrible PrC. It doesn't progress spellcasting, the Great Orator ability (Bardic music kinda sorta) is poorly written, and the Great Orator effects basically just duplicate a small number of spells which you would otherwise have access to anyway as a normal Bard or Bard/War Weaver or Bard/Some Other PrC.

oh hey! you're the x stat to y bonus guy. funny you should come onto this thread. thanks for the handbook, it's a great resource and this character happens to be making use of some of its tricks