[SR4ed] What to make to fill in a good party?

[Vallum]

GM for an upcoming Shadowrun game invited me to join his 500 BP game. I'm excited, for my love of Shadowrun is immense. Unfortunately, I'm getting little response from the GM as to what to build.

I asked around the group, and came up with this as our to-be party atm

-a unarmed fighter/mechanic
-a gun character with 'some social skills' (ie dunno if its the face or not)
-a adept
-a rigger, (I also think/hope the character will double as a hacker, though haven't got allot back from this player)
-a troll archer, (I think will probably will be an adept as well, dunno for sure)

I have a face almost done JIC the gun character is just a few point in etiquette. But I was wondering, if the gun character IS the face, what should I run? I don't want to step on anyone's toes, and just want to make sure I can fill in any vital roles that I'm missing.

If I can't fill any roles we missed, I'm unsure on how to go about making a support, (aka best fifth-wheel bard), character?

[LibraryOgre]

You've got a pretty fighty group. If their fixer knows how to use them, he's going to set them on a lot of smash-and-grab style maneuvers... "We need everyone's attention over HERE, so you go be loud while something else happens."

[Need_A_Life]

I have a face almost done JIC the gun character is just a few point in etiquette. But I was wondering, if the gun character IS the face, what should I run? I don't want to step on anyone's toes, and just want to make sure I can fill in any vital roles that I'm missing.
If he describes himself as a gun-nut with social skills, then making a Face isn't stepping on his toes. Unless you're running Pink Mohawk, a bit of social skills is all but mandatory, regardless of focus.

A Face isn't even so much about throwing dice around, though the infamous Pornomancer can do that. In my experience, your points are better spent on contacts, some knowledge skills and gadgets*. I personally prefer to invest in combat drugs, toxins and disguised equipment when playing a Face (usually adept, never chromed as a face).

Invest in an armoured business suit, some glasses/contacts with vision enhancements, a spray-can of Slab/whatever and you can do a lot. Of course, I always (once game begins, damn 16F rating) try to get a "Cigarette of Blood of Kali," the incredibly powerful, potentially lethal combat drug in cigarette form to try the "one last request" act, should I get captured.

When I look at equipment (and even race) I always focus on how much of it I could bring through a check-point and not get hassled. So a human (Humanis Policlub don't like elves) woman who carries a purse containing:

A taser
A memory card (for non-wireless storage)
A pack of menthol cigarettes (Läes cigarettes)
A pack of normal cigarettes
Make-up (various utility drugs)
Band-aids (patches with various chemicals)
A set of normal glasses (vision-enhancement set #1)
A set of "reading glasses" (vision-enhancement set #2)
A water bottle (keep hydrated!)

While wearing an armoured business suit (like all of the other wageslaves around) with an autoinjector of jazz/cram (and an ID stating that she's a diabetic and thus needs her shots) will get you through most check-points by itself.

Now, since you know at least two fixers, a few drug dealers, a reliable street doctor, a fence, a couple of janitors, maintenance people, mechanics, smugglers etc. you're going to be spending most of your time gathering info via your "friends."
With a load-out like the one above, you'll also be ready to pretend to be just another wageslave and do things discreetly, while the others cause a distraction.

Remember, for about 50BP, you can add "competent hacker" to your list of skills, so you can take over from the primary hacker in a time of need.

* If empathy software/emotitoys are allowed in the campaign, assume that everyone will use it and get yourself one. If it hasn't come up, don't be the one to open up that can of worms.

P.S. My sig has a link to advice I gave to another new shadowrunner.
P.P.S. Good luck, chummer!

[a_humble_lich]

Another role it looks like nobody has taken is magic user. With 500 bp you have enough resorces to make a mage who is also a competent face, but I find it is really useful to have at least one party member who can go Astral. On the other hand I tend to run very magic focused games so I may be biased. :smallsmile:

[Zaakar]

[...] but I find it is really useful to have at least one party member who can go Astral.

I second this.

[Vallum]

Another role it looks like nobody has taken is magic user. With 500 bp you have enough resources to make a mage who is also a competent face, but I find it is really useful to have at least one party member who can go Astral. On the other hand I tend to run very magic focused games so I may be biased. :smallsmile:

Well, currently AFB, but can't an adept jump into astral plane, or is that a mage-only job? Also, though I like it, I don't feel like running a mage again, (last character was a mage and got hosed by the bloody pricy upgrades to make my mana/stun bolts even shave the low pistol skill peeps in the party, let alone the "I like guns" guy...).

And it seems like we're a Pink Mohawk kind of group... *sigh*

[Seerow]

Well, currently AFB, but can't an adept jump into astral plane, or is that a mage-only job? Also, though I like it, I don't feel like running a mage again, (last character was a mage and got hosed by the bloody pricy upgrades to make my mana/stun bolts even shave the low pistol skill peeps in the party, let alone the "I like guns" guy...).

And it seems like we're a Pink Mohawk kind of group... *sigh*

Astral Plane is mage only. There might be an adept power that allows it, but if there is it's overpriced (like most adept powers are)

[comicshorse]

Astral Plane is mage only. There might be an adept power that allows it, but if there is it's overpriced (like most adept powers are)

I believe there's an, indeed overpriced, Adept power but it only lets you look into the Astral Plane not travel in it. And as you can then be clobbered by astrally projecting mages I never thought it was a good idea for an Adept to get it.

[Need_A_Life]

Astral Perception can be useful, but it usually brings a lot more trouble than it solves (depending on your GM, obviously).
It costs 1 point of magic, IIRC, for adepts, which makes it one of the more expensive powers.

Another, arguable, trap for adept powers is extra initiative passes. You can spend 4.5 points of Magic (50BP) for +3IP, or ~100nuyen (1/50 of 1BP) a fight for the same effect.

Spy Games had some excellent powers to help with a disguise-adept, though, so now an adept can mimic: Height, weight, skin colour, eye colour, finger prints, voice and (with a few hours preparation) language.
Its one of the more fun ways of playing an infiltrator.

[Seerow]

Astral Perception can be useful, but it usually brings a lot more trouble than it solves (depending on your GM, obviously).
It costs 1 point of magic, IIRC, for adepts, which makes it one of the more expensive powers.

Another, arguable, trap for adept powers is extra initiative passes. You can spend 4.5 points of Magic (50BP) for +3IP, or ~100nuyen (1/50 of 1BP) a fight for the same effect.

Comparing the power to drugs isn't really a fair comparison. Better to compare it to wired reflexes or the bioware equivalent. And if you look at those, the comparison is much closer (especially if you factor in as a mage using those lowers your magic, so you have to pay for magic you're not getting to use on top of paying for the ware). Add on to that money has a cap that you can get at character gen (and I don't know about you, but I've rarely if ever made a character who wasn't riding that cap very closely), money is less about how much bp, and more about how much of my money it costs, and how much isn't already accounted for elsewhere.

[a_humble_lich]

In addition, regularly using combat drugs is a good way to get the GM to look up the rules for addiction. If I remember correctly, the rules say that if a character starts using drugs regularly, the GM can give them an addiction. Which at high levels will lower your magic rating. And taking meth (or whatever SR calls it) is bad for your teeth. :smallsmile:

With regards to the Astral Perception power, it can be worth getting, but only for certain character types. I made a adept detective who specialized in looking for clues instead of combat who felt that was a point of magic well spent, but for most adepts, your magic is better spent elsewhere.

[Autolykos]

Your group lacks a mage, and this will seriously bite you in the behind rather sooner than later. A mage specializing on control manipulations and illusions can easily double as face, so you can do both. Just don't forget to save some points for essential utility spells.
Also, "adept" doesn't describe a function, but a way to accomplish things. Since you (and the adept's player) haven't added anything, I'm going to assume it's some kind of ninja-adept without useful tech/utility skills (most are, if not further qualified...). This leaves you with a group good at breaking stuff but in dire need of a utility/batman character. So my advice is to go for utility mage, specialized on manipulations. Shaman would be best IMHO, because
a) totem bonus is good for specialization
b) nature spirits have more utility than elementals (which are better at breaking stuff)

In 3e, my suggestion for a totem would be raccoon (or perhaps fox, cat or raven), but I don't know what the stats in 4e are.

[TheOOB]

While with small runner groups a magician isn't necceary(just don't take jobs where you'll have heavy magical opposition), a team this large with this power level needs some mojo. The first thing to remember about Adepts is that they don't really use magic abilities so much as magic enhances their mundane abilities. You need someone who can astrally project, conjure spirits, counterspell, and who can damage that cyber-troll wearing milspec armor(direct damage spells suck compared to guns normally, but they do ignore armor)).

The fact is, in order to counteract strong magical opposition you need magic yourself, and a magician is also great at filling missing roles in the party. If there is something your party can't do, there is a spell or a spirit power for that.

Plus, by picking a charisma tradition, you are only a few ranks in the influence skill group from being a decent face.

[mcv]

A kind of magic user is the most obvious thing missing. There could be a reason for that (maybe the GM doesn't like magic?), or maybe you just don't want to play a magic user. Mind you, magic doesn't have to be about combat spells.

If you want something else, there's not really a lot to go on in the descriptions of the existing characters. Is the unarmed fighter/mechanic a cybered-up street samurai? What does the adept do? It's hard to say determine what abilities are really lacking in this group, other than magic. Ask them again, if possible.

If not, just make the character you like. Want to be the face? Do you want to join in the mayhem that this group probably excels at? Perhaps an investigator with lots of contacts? Or figure out what the rigger is rigging, and rig something else. It also depends on the style of game the GM is running.