Arcane Gish: How to do in Tier3-4?

[Snowbluff]

So, with only Dread Necro, Warmage, and Beguiler to work with (or some other class IDR at the moment), whats the best option for making an Arcane Gish?

[Seerow]

Duskblade. It's arcane Gish in a can.

Also Bard. Maybe with a prestige class to expand the spell list some, but really bard alone has a lot of good buff spells, plus music.


Alternatively, there was a sorcerer variant that gives up some spells known for better BAB and HP. It might still be tier 2, but it's low tier 2, and with a spell selection focused on buffing and personal mobility, while avoiding some of the more powerful options, would fit squarely with tier 3 casters.

[gbprime]

With only those three to work with? Can you use official online content too?

If so, Beguiler into Swiftblade. ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327 )

[darksolitaire]

If you have access to Dragon Magazine, Trickster Spellthief is better then normal bard; they have same spells known and spells per day, and can select from a larger list.

Some accelerated PrC's such as Suel Arcanamach and Chameleon would also work, if you start at higher level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Rainbow Warsnake with Divine Power?

Dread Necromancer with Alternate Spell Source or Southern Magician and DMM: Persist spell with Arcane Disciple (Pride) for Divine Power?

Either of these nets you a full BAB character.

[Metahuman1]

Stalwart Battle Sorcerer or Duskblade, or a Bard with Snowflake Wardance, Lingering Song, Melodic Casting, Song of the White Raven if Tome of Battle is allowed, and Dragon fire Inspiration. Pick a hard to resist energy type and optimize Inspire courage. Maybe pick up Power attack.

[dextercorvia]

Chameleon makes a fine Arcane Gish at T3 (depending on entry). So does Bard (just steer clear of Sublime Chord).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Throw in Magical Training and Practiced Spellcaster and each of those classes gets access to any Wizard spell they can find and make the Spellcraft check to learn. After that just go with a standard gish build, and you should be fine.

[Godskook]

Rainbow Warsnake with Divine Power?

Dread Necromancer with Alternate Spell Source or Southern Magician and DMM: Persist spell with Arcane Disciple (Pride) for Divine Power?

Either of these nets you a full BAB character.

Rainbow Servant is definintely tier 2+, and DMM at the very least approaches it.

[Treblain]

Beguiler or Bard Swiftblade, all the way.

[gbprime]

Rainbow Warsnake with Divine Power?

Yeah, at level SIXTEEN. You want to wait that long? And the OP is asking for T3 or T4.

[gorfnab]

SotAO Mystic Ranger

[DoctorGlock]

So, I actually had these questions come up last semester when I ran a T3 game and everyone wanted to be a gish

SotAO Mystic Ranger will get books thrown at you until level 10, but it is T3
Suel Arcanamach is a great T3 Gish, but a very late bloomer
Duskblade is a solid choice and works from the start, but is only really damage, it does springboard into Suel and solves the late blooming issue
Eldritch Glaive warlock probably counts as a gish and is T4
With the right restrictions, arcane swordsage hovers around T3, otherwise it pushes T0
Battle Sorcerer is T3, the spells known restriction is brutal, abuse of necrotic apprentice will get you hit with books though

Beguiler/Swiftblade is solid
Beguiler into JPM was an interesting contender if not particularly strong
Battle Sorcerer into JPM or Abjurant Champion (or both) is brutal, but ultimately not OP, taking a greater hit to spells known.

[gbprime]

Battle Sorcerer is a lot more tolerable if you take a Bloodline feat from Dragon Magazine Compendium. An extra spell known at each level undoes the damage to versatility and inserts a theme of sorts.

[Snowbluff]

Throw in Magical Training and Practiced Spellcaster and each of those classes gets access to any Wizard spell they can find and make the Spellcraft check to learn. After that just go with a standard gish build, and you should be fine.

I'm asking this as a DM, not a player. This will get an instant veto, since knowing any wizard they want would be T1.


Rainbow Warsnake with Divine Power?

Dread Necromancer with Alternate Spell Source or Southern Magician and DMM: Persist spell with Arcane Disciple (Pride) for Divine Power?

Either of these nets you a full BAB character.

Suggesting using DMM on a DN's domain spells? Generally, I'd veto this unless it could be proven that the DN can cast the spells as Divine.


Battle Sorcerer is a lot more tolerable if you take a Bloodline feat from Dragon Magazine Compendium. An extra spell known at each level undoes the damage to versatility and inserts a theme of sorts.

No sorcerers, please. Also, no bards, they are obsolete as of PHBII, and lack anything useful that can't be simulated by a person with a lute and a vest. I know Bardic Music uses can be used for MM, but there are much easier ways of getting free Persists.

Also, duskblade is good in it's own way, but I think it has less spell levels, which matter a lot for Arcane Strike, but I will suggest it to my gish player.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Suggesting using DMM on a DN's domain spells? Generally, I'd veto this unless it could be proven that the DN can cast the spells as Divine.

Using either the feat Alternate Spell Source or Southern Magician allows you to consider the spells either arcane or divine, whichever you prefer.

If you don't like that, Illuminian + NaenHoon sigil to persist it instead.

[dextercorvia]

abuse of necrotic apprentice will get you hit with books though

I am grateful to have found favor in your eyes.

I honestly never thought of it as a book throwing combo unless the feats were shuffled out after all the spells were converted.

[DoctorGlock]

I am grateful to have found favor in your eyes.

I honestly never thought of it as a book throwing combo unless the feats were shuffled out after all the spells were converted.

Oh, it isn't usually book worthy, but i brought it up in a t3 game once... in that environment, it's book worthy.

[Lans]

Theirs a magus class PF that might be appealing.

Also theirs a summoner super robot varient. Or SSRV for short. Not actual name but concept wise it works

[MeeposFire]

No sorcerers, please. Also, no bards, they are obsolete as of PHBII, and lack anything useful that can't be simulated by a person with a lute and a vest. I know Bardic Music uses can be used for MM, but there are much easier ways of getting free Persists.

Also, duskblade is good in it's own way, but I think it has less spell levels, which matter a lot for Arcane Strike, but I will suggest it to my gish player.

How in the world are bards obsolete? They are among the most versatile, useful, and fun classes in the game. Further they have several routes of unique power especially with dragonfire inspiration, inspire courage, and other songs and song based abilities. They are even tier 3 to boot so it fits that criteria. So what do you mean by that?

[Snowbluff]

How in the world are bards obsolete? They are among the most versatile, useful, and fun classes in the game. Further they have several routes of unique power especially with dragonfire inspiration, inspire courage, and other songs and song based abilities. They are even tier 3 to boot so it fits that criteria. So what do you mean by that?

Beguilers has better spell selection and Bardic Music is only a dip and/or some items away. It's so sad. I weep for the bard. :smallfrown:

[Curious]

Magus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus) is probably the easiest tier 3 gish you can build.

[Talionis]

Wu Jen into a full BAB prestige class... Have fun with Body out of Body.

[dextercorvia]

Oh, it isn't usually book worthy, but i brought it up in a t3 game once... in that environment, it's book worthy.

In T3/4, the only caster that I can see getting any use out of it is Bard, and it restricts him to staying Bard to receive the full benefit (and costs 2-3 feats). Does 8-14 spells known really add that much to the bard to warrant a book upside the thinker?

[dspeyer]

Beguilers has better spell selection

Not for a gish: no Bull's Strength, no Rage, no Heroism, no Cure X Wounds.... 3/4 BAB vs 1/2 isn't a laughing matter either, especially if you want to enter a PRC with a BAB prereq.

On the other hand, a lot of the best gish spells are sor/wiz only. so there is something to be said for sorcerer/paladin alternating levels (probably works out to about tier 3).

[DoctorGlock]

In T3/4, the only caster that I can see getting any use out of it is Bard, and it restricts him to staying Bard to receive the full benefit (and costs 2-3 feats). Does 8-14 spells known really add that much to the bard to warrant a book upside the thinker?

it turns the battle sorcerer back into a sorcerer, so when the tiers have heavy restrictions on them it is significant. never tried it with bard though.

[Psyren]

I third the suggestion of backporting Magus; Alchemist can also do some gishing. Or get a melee bard going.

[Thrawn183]

I wonder how a spell thief would work out...

[Lateral]

Beguilers has better spell selection and Bardic Music is only a dip and/or some items away. It's so sad. I weep for the bard. :smallfrown:

Nope. Beguilers' spells are far less useful to a gish than the Bards', and I'd like to see how you're getting Bardic Music as good as a straight bard's with only a dip.

[gbprime]

Nope. Beguilers' spells are far less useful to a gish than the Bards', and I'd like to see how you're getting Bardic Music as good as a straight bard's with only a dip.

Safe bet he's assuming an un-optimized bard. Yes, +1 or +2 morale bonuses are easy. But Bard 19 - Marshal 1 with the War Leader feat can hit +13 without equipment. Hold off on that claim while I find the dang feat. Having a sourcebook fail.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For bardic music, you need at least Bard 2 for Inspirational Boost, and don't forget you only get level/day uses of music, so it'll take more than just a dip. Between Song of the Heart, a Badge of Valor, Inspirational Boost, and probably Words of Creation, a Bard 2 gets +7 that doesn't go up until you hit Bard 8, at which it only goes to +9. Still, Bard does get considerably better Gish spell choices than the set-list casters, despite its lower spell levels.

I'd recommend Bard 8/ Suel Arcanamach over dipping Bard and then going Beguiler or Warmage or Dread Necro, because you'd at least get most of the basic Gish buffs and Bard is not bad at all in those levels. Sublime Chord is definitely a better choice, but I doubt it would be permissible. If you're taking Words of Creation, you may as well pick up Arcane Preparation to be able to use (Greater) Luminous Armor as well.

[Coidzor]

Nope. Beguilers' spells are far less useful to a gish than the Bards', and I'd like to see how you're getting Bardic Music as good as a straight bard's with only a dip.

Unless you're allowing epic progression of bardic music, bard's vest + Chaos music covers 8 levels of beguiler before going into PrC Bard and then Virtuosoing up the place.

Though it doesn't really seem very gishy, come to think of it.

[Suddo]

Dwarven Tank
28 point buy
str 12
dex 12
con 16
int 8
wis 8
char 14

fighter 4/ sorcerer 2/ abjurant champion 5 / runesmith 1/ eldritch knight 8 BAB -18 CL 15

This is from here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8786). Replace sorc with Beguiler and it might not be too bad. Or for his other build


On the other hand you can do the other build he did:
Human Paragon 3/ Wizard 3/ Eldritch Knight 2 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Archmage 1 / Eldritch Knight 6
BAB - 16 CL - 18
Once again replacing the wizard with beguiler. Its feat intensive, at least requires militia. But is still fine.

If that is too odd for you, perhaps because you don't allow militia. Then perhaps you can just do this:
Fighter 1/ Beguiler 4/ Human Paragon 3 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Eldritch Knight 7
That gives you 17 BAB, and -3 Spells per day compared to full Beguiler. Few required feats but you get a good amount as is.

[herrhauptmann]

Hmm, the sorcadin is probably too powerful for your game.
And while bard would work, going sublime chord would raise your tier up.

There's another option available. It'll need a high int to get the skills prereq though. It's also a lot of work for not much return.
The hard part is getting your listen, perform, and knowledge skills high enough to get entry to Sublime Chord at the intended level.

Pal2 (Harmonious Knight variant). If DM says the inspire courage ACF counts as bard song, you're in. (Sublime chord however should only advance the bardic abilities that HarmKnight grants, not any of the others that bards get)
Duskblade 2-4. Get a bonus feat you need, full bab, and knowledge skills.
Another class with full bab. You need +6 bab by level 6.
I'd also recommend stacking as many ACFs as you can in these base classes. But noncasting paladin or ranger might be an issue. There's a few useful spells on each list that you might want a wand or scroll of.
Suel Arcanamach 3
Spellsword 1. Advance Suel
Sublime chord 2.
Abjurant champ 5. Advance Sublime.
Sacred Exorcist 3. Advance Sublime.

You'll have fewer spells per day, and spells known than the sorcadin. Your first 3 levels of spells will also be a bit limited: Trans, Evoc, Abjuration, and I think Divination.
There might be better options than sacred exorcist 3, but I can't think of any easy entry ones that are medium or full bab.

But:
All of your self buffs will be extended for free.
All of your abjurations will be quickened and extended for free.
Dispelling/countering your low level spells will be done against your CL+6.
Your CL is equal to your Bab.
You can make perform checks at each casting to boost your CL by 1,2, or 4.

[The Underlord]

Bard gish: Bard 4/warblade 16 with the feat that allows you to stack warblade and bard for inspire courage.

[MeeposFire]

Bard gish: Bard 4/warblade 16 with the feat that allows you to stack warblade and bard for inspire courage.

That probably has too few spells to really be called a gish. That is more a song warrior with a handful of spells. Going the other way would certainly be a gish since it would have a real number of spells.

[Suddo]

Bard gish: Bard 4/warblade 16 with the feat that allows you to stack warblade and bard for inspire courage.

Although I like it the main point of Gish is to try and get 9s and +15 BAB. This gets the latter but not the former done.

[MeeposFire]

Although I like it the main point of Gish is to try and get 9s and +15 BAB. This gets the latter but not the former done.

Actually that is the point of an optimizied gish which we are not tryng to do this time as the OP specifically wants a tier 3 gish so 9th level spells are not needed since they would likely get you to tiers 1-2. Still that build does not get very many spell levels (or slots for that matter) so it likely would not be considered a gish.

[Coidzor]

Safe bet he's assuming an un-optimized bard. Yes, +1 or +2 morale bonuses are easy. But Bard 19 - Marshal 1 with the War Leader feat can hit +13 without equipment. Hold off on that claim while I find the dang feat. Having a sourcebook fail.

I was just about to ask about that, as I couldn't find that feat with google or realmshelps and couldn't recall it offhand either.

[Suddo]

Actually that is the point of an optimizied gish which we are not tryng to do this time as the OP specifically wants a tier 3 gish so 9th level spells are not needed since they would likely get you to tiers 1-2. Still that build does not get very many spell levels (or slots for that matter) so it likely would not be considered a gish.

Okay by 9s I mean high spells. Probably at least 7s in this case. Or a lot of spell slots to burn on arcane strike.

Also Beguilers technically get nines and they were on the list of useful dude. Same with Dread Necros.

[Grendus]

Consider Duskblade 5/Spellthief 1/Chameleon 10/Abjurant Champion 4. With Master Spellthief your caster level will stay equal to your character level, or possibly higher (Arcane Focus specifically can't be used to qualify for a feat, but if you qualify independently it should stack), depending on if your DM will allow Master Spellthief to go above your character level. Optionally, you can swap Abjurant Champion out with another full BAB class, like dipping ToB to take advantage of the 1/2 initiator level for non-adept classes.

You end up incredibly versatile. You have trapfinding, a floating feat, and you can mimic class features of varying usefulness (turn undead is worthless unless your DM lets you use it to power feats, but Evasion as an immediate action or Rage after you're buffed up might be useful). You have 6th level spells, both arcane and divine, and you aren't limited to a specific class list, meaning you can load out with the best spells from the wizard, cleric, druid, paladin, etc list. You have 17 BAB at the end, you can channel a spell into a melee strike as a standard action, and you get one free Quicken per day. Overall, not a half bad build, but the lack of 9ths means that you won't be breaking out cheesy levels of power. You'll be incredibly versatile and moderately durable, but without phenominal cosmic power, which sounds about like what you're looking for.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

To be honest, I'd rather DFI than Gish it up. Although with Song of Legion from War Chanter... you effectively have a full BAB anyways, regardless. And so does everyone else. Oh, and around +10d6 sonic damage on every swing. And a +10 morale bonus to attack and damage...

Heck, combine this with a Dread Necro going for Army of Darkness mode, and Requiem... and you've got a campaign-destroyer. Cute little 1hd skeletons suddenly have BAB = to the Bard's HD, and are doing ZOMGWTFBBQ damage output. Are they still crunchy? Sure, if you can affect 'em. But they still hit like mac trucks, and more importantly, are pathetically easy to get more of.

[dextercorvia]

Okay by 9s I mean high spells. Probably at least 7s in this case. Or a lot of spell slots to burn on arcane strike.

Also Beguilers technically get nines and they were on the list of useful dude. Same with Dread Necros.

Really here you have the choice between crumby spells for a gish at a higher level (Throwing Beguiler or DN into a standard gish build), or having the gish standbys and being satisfied with the 5-6 range (Chameleon, Suel, or Bard).

You aren't going to get the ordinary gish spell lists and get 7th, 8th, or 9th level spells, without relying on cheese (Chameleon abuse) or a T1/2 chassis.

[Darth Stabber]

Bard is a shining paragon of t3 versatility and efficacy, if anyone says different they are misinformed, lying, or speaking of core only. Splat support for bard is incredible, DFI and snowflake wardance make bardic facesmashing very viable, down right scary in t3 only. Beguiler only beats it in spell casting, and only when sublime chord is ignored.

Beguiler has spells, but very few good gish spells, if you use it you are only looking for "has spells", not "has spell pertinent to my interests". The exception is swiftblade, which capitalizes on the one good gish spell beguiler has: haste.

Dread necro also lacks pertinent spells, but actually is a gish at lvls 1-4 ironically. When combined with bard it gets rather silly when skeletons are swinging for huge sonic damage, but still not much of a true gish.

Duskblade has a VERY LIMITED spell list, but it is the best "gish in a box" since it's spells+features are good at making things not alive anymore (or not undead as the case may be). Very few of the buffs traditionally associated with gishes, but it does work.

Paladin + charisma caster is a popular route, I don't really know what to say, beyond the fact that it is simple, functional, and never fails saves. Mixed with a weak sorcerer varient or shugenja it will make a very serviceable combatant. And the paladin/shugenja combo also sounds like a major fluff win too.

[dextercorvia]

Bard is a shining paragon of t3 versatility and efficacy, if anyone says different they are misinformed, lying, or speaking of core only.

And, in Core Only, it is really your only choice for T3/4 arcane gish, unless you do something really wacky, like only take T1 levels on half the character levels. Ranger10/Wizard10 alternating levels would probably hit about T4 in core. I haven't experimented with the exact blend, but that would have the same BAB as a Bard, and 5th level spells, but from a better list than the Bard. Of course, this begs the question why you would do that instead of using the core PrC that is tailor made for making this combination better.

[Snowbluff]

I would say the only thing wrong with Beguiler is that you are missing alot of the offensive spells. You get alot of spells that would help defensively. The point is this is supposed to be weaker than a T2 based Gish, which could be packing a few extra tricks, while still giving gull spell levels for his trusty Arcane Strike/Power Attack.

Sublime Chord is something I'll have to take a look at, I don't know how fine I am with him getting a full access spell access, but a beguiler would have an easier time qualifying for the spell requirement, and he could use his Gestalt options to qualify with the rest. Or I could just allow Advance Learning to progress with spellcasting level rather than Beguiler Level.

Another thing that should be in the OP is I was thing about making this a Gestalt campaign. He could take Song of the White Raven and a couple of other BM (teehehehe, it needs a better acronym) feats. He's actually seen me do pretty good Dragonfire Inspiration Warlock, and we impressed at how useful the buff was.

I'll see if I can get him on this thread and lt him talk to you. If you want to have him play Bard, try it. /eyeroll

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Another thing that should be in the OP is I was thing about making this a Gestalt campaign. He could take Song of the White Raven and a couple of other BM (teehehehe, it needs a better acronym) feats. He's actually seen me do pretty good Dragonfire Inspiration Warlock, and we impressed at how useful the buff was.

I'll see if I can get him on this thread and lt him talk to you. If you want to have him play Bard, try it. /eyeroll

DFI doesn't work with Eldritch Blast/Glaive, since it's a spell-like ability, not a weapon.

In a Gestalt game, he doesn't NEED a gish build, he IS one. Go with 'insert caster' on one side and 'insert full BAB class' on the other side. Done.

I may be a bit biased, but in a gestalt game, go Dread Necro/Dread Witch//Warblade. Then just win. So very hard.

[Snowbluff]

DFI doesn't work with Eldritch Blast/Glaive, since it's a spell-like ability, not a weapon.

In a Gestalt game, he doesn't NEED a gish build, he IS one. Go with 'insert caster' on one side and 'insert full BAB class' on the other side. Done.

I may be a bit biased, but in a gestalt game, go Dread Necro/Dread Witch//Warblade. Then just win. So very hard.

Yes. because I said was dealing melee damage. And Eldritch Glaive is the only way warlocks deal damage. Dude, seriously, learn a little about the warlock before saying something like that. I know it's not cool talking about Invocation users on this forum, but you don't have to know nothing about the class.

I was using Eldritch Claws, which ARE melee weapons.

Anyway, I'll see what the player says about DN, but he is a gish player, and if the DN doesn't cover enough of the spells he's wanting, he probably won't do it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes. because I said was dealing melee damage. And Eldritch Glaive is the only way warlocks deal damage. Dude, seriously, learn a little about the warlock before saying something like that. I know it's not cool talking about Invocation users on this forum, but you don't have to know nothing about the class.

I was using Eldritch Claws, which ARE melee weapons.

Anyway, I'll see what the player says about DN, but he is a gish player, and if the DN doesn't cover enough of the spells he's wanting, he probably won't do it.

Ahh, homebrew dragon mag content.

And yea... I know nothing about warlocks, or how to use them... at all... nope, not me... :smallamused:

You know, it's not like I helped Shinken write the guide on 'locks... or homebrewed a number of invocation-based classes for the campaign setting I'm making... nope, not me

[Snowbluff]

Ahh, homebrew dragon mag content.

And yea... I know nothing about warlocks, or how to use them... at all... nope, not me... :smallamused:

You know, it's not like I helped Shinken write the guide on 'locks... or homebrewed a number of invocation-based classes for the campaign setting I'm making... nope, not me

If that's the case, you probably should know it's not unusual for a 'lock just to punch something. :smalltongue:

[sreservoir]

mystic ranger is something like a tier 3 gish after level 10, although its caster level is suck iirc.

(earlier it is lightning warrior lite, though.)

[hex0]

My ideas:
Duskblade 13/Wizard 1/Abjurant Champion 2/Ultimate Magus 4 (or Warmage with Dual Spontaneous UM) (probably better with fractional BAB)
Trickster Spellthief 1/Duskblade 13/etc.
Trickster Spellthief 7/Swiftblade 9/etc.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Something along the lines of (Full BAB*) 6/ Suel Arcanamach 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Dragon Disciple 4 would actually be a decent choice. *Those six levels should probably include something like Duskblade 2 for Combat Casting, skills, and utility spells, (variant) Paladin 2 for Cha synergy depending on alignment and taste, Fighter 2 for Dungeoncrasher if desired, and fill the rest out with Warblade and/or Crusader, possibly even Idiot Crusader shenanigans. Finishing it with Dragon Disciple 4 gives you more spell slots, but you could easily replace it with more initiator levels instead.

For a gestalt game, I'd still recommend Suel Arcanamach even if you're using Beguiler or Warmage just because it gives you access to nearly any buff a Gish will need.

[hex0]

If you can use Knight of the Weave, I like it a bit better than Suel.

[Snowbluff]

If you can use Knight of the Weave, I like it a bit better than Suel.

Which book is Knight of the Weave?

[Coidzor]

Which book is Knight of the Weave?

Champions of Valor, was it? Wikipedia agrees. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)

IIRC, it's got a slightly more limited list than Suel Arcanamach... or they both have rather minuscule lists, but, definitely of interest.

[Snowbluff]

Champions of Valor, was it? Wikipedia agrees. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)

IIRC, it's got a slightly more limited list than Suel Arcanamach... or they both have rather minuscule lists, but, definitely of interest.

Damn, that is, like, the one book I don't have. :smallfrown:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Champions of Valor, was it? Wikipedia agrees. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prestige_classes)

IIRC, it's got a slightly more limited list than Suel Arcanamach... or they both have rather minuscule lists, but, definitely of interest.

:smallconfused: Does this seems a minuscule list?

The following is a list of all spells available to arcanamachs from PHB, Complete Mage, Dragon Magic, Player's Handbook II and Spell Compendium.

1st level
Accelerated Movement (SC)
Alarm (PHB)
Alibi (EoE)
Animate Rope (PHB)
Appraising Touch (SC)
Armor Lock (CS)
Arrow Mind (SC)
Babau Slime (SC)
Bestow Wound (HoH)
Breath Flare (SC)
Burning Rage (PHB II)
Cheat (SC)
Color Spray (PHB)
Combat Readiness (DU)
Comprehend Languages (PHB)
Critical Strike (SC)
Cutting Hand (SC)
Dead End (SC)
Deflect, Lesser (PHB II)
Detect Dragonblood (DM)
Detect Secret Doors (PHB)
Detect Undead (PHB)
Detect Weaponry (Cty)
Discern Bloodline (RoD)
Disguise Self (PHB)
Dispel Ward (SC)
Ebon Eyes (SC)
Ectoplasmic Armor (SC)
Endure Elements (PHB)
Enlarge Person (PHB)
Erase (PHB)
Expeditious Retreat (PHB)
Expeditious Retreat, Swift (SC)
Eyes of the Avoral (BoED)
Feather Fall (PHB)
Fist of Stone (SC)
Float (Fr)
Friendly Face (RoD)
Ghostly Reload (RotD)
Golem Strike (SC)
Guided Shot (SC)
Hoard Gullet (DM)
Hold Portal (PHB)
Horrible Taste (SC)
Identify (PHB)
Insightful Feint (SC)
Instant Diversion (RotD)
Instant Locksmith (SC)
Instant Search (SC)
Ironguts (SC)
Jump (PHB)
Karmic Aura (CM)
Locate City (RoD)
Locate Water (Snd)
Low-Light Vision (SC)
Mage Burr (CS)
Mage Hand, Greater (SC)
Magic Aura (PHB)
Magic Weapon (PHB)
Master’s Touch (SC)
Mighty Wallop (RotD)
Nerveskitter (SC)
Nightshield (SC)
Path of Frost (DM)
Peacebond (Cty)
Portal Beacon (SC)
Protection from (alignment) (PHB)
Quickswim (Stm)
Raging Flame (SC)
Ray of Clumsiness (SC)
Reduce Person (PHB)
Remove Scent (SC)
Resist Planar Alignment (SC)
Scatterspray (SC)
Scholar’s Touch (RoD)
Secret Weapon (Cty)
Serene Visage (SC)
Shield (PHB)
Shieldbearer (SC)
Silent Image (PHB)
Slide (SC)
Slow Burn (SC)
Sniper’s Shot (SC)
Snowdrift (Fr)
Snuff the Light (DU)
Spell Flower (SC)
Spider Form, Lesser (DU)
Spontaneous Search (SC)
Sunstroke (Snd)
Targeting Ray (SC)
Treacherous Weapon (EoE)
True Casting (CM)
True Strike (PHB)
Ventriloquism (PHB)
Vigilant Slumber (CM)
Wave Blessing (Stm)
Weapon Shift (SC)

2nd level
Aiming at the Target (SC)
Alarm, Greater (SC)
Allied Footsteps (CM)
Alter Self (PHB)
Animalistic Power (PHB II)
Arcane Lock (PHB)
Arcane Turmoil (CM)
Attentive Alarm (CM)
Augment Familiar (SC)
Balancing Lorecall (SC)
Balor Nimbus (SC)
Bear’s Endurance (PHB)
Belker Claws (SC)
Bladeweave (SC)
Blinding Color Surge (PHB II)
Blur (PHB)
Body of the Sun (SC)
Boiling Blood (CM)
Bristle (SC)
Brumal Stiffening (Fr)
Bull’s Strength (PHB)
Cat’s Grace (PHB)
Catapult (CS)
Celerity, Lesser (PHB II)
Chain of Eyes (SC)
Cloak Pool (SC)
Crystalline Memories (CM)
Daggerspell Stance (SC)
Dark Way (SC)
Darkvision (PHB)
Deflect (PHB II)
Delusions of Grandeur (SC)
Detect Aberration (LoM)
Detect Thoughts (PHB)
Discern Shapechanger (SC)
Discolor Pool (SC)
Disguise Undead (SC)
Dispelling Touch (PHB II)
Dissonant Chant (SC)
Distracting Ray (SC)
Eagle’s Splendor (PHB)
Earth Lock (SC)
Earthbind (SC)
Earthen Grasp (SC)
Ectoplasmic Feedback (SC)
Energize Potion (BoED)
Energy Surge, Lesser (PHB II)
Enlarge Weapon (CS)
Extend Tentacles (SC)
False Peacebond (Cty)
Fearsome Grapple (SC)
Fins to Feet (SC)
Fly, Swift (SC)
Fox’s Cunning (PHB)
Frost Weapon (Fr)
Fuse Arms (SC)
Ghost Touch Armor (SC)
Heart of Air (CM)
Heroics (SC)
Hurl (SC)
Hypnotic Pattern (PHB)
Icicle (Fr)
Increase Virulence (PHB II)
Infernal Wound (SC)
Insight of Good Fortune (PHB II)
Investiture of the Spined Devil (FC II)
Invisibility (PHB)
Ironthunder Horn (SC)
Jaws of the Moray (Stm)
Knock (PHB)
Kuo-Toa Skin (Stm)
Levitate (PHB)
Lively Step (SC)
Locate Object (PHB)
Lucky Streak (CS)
Magic Mouth (PHB)
Magical Backlash (DU)
Marked Object (SC)
Master’s Touch (PHB II)
Minor Image (PHB)
Mirror Image (PHB)
Misdirection (PHB)
Mountain Stance (SC)
Obscure Object (PHB)
Owl’s Wisdom (PHB)
Phantasmal Assailants (SC)
Phantom Trap (PHB)
Portal Alarm (SC)
Protection from Arrows (PHB)
Pyrotechnics (PHB)
Quick Potion (SC)
Razorfangs (SC)
Reflective Disguise (SC)
Repair Moderate Damage (SC)
Resist Energy (PHB)
Returning Weapon (RotW)
Rope Trick (PHB)
Scale Weakening (SC)
Scintillating Scales (SC)
See Invisibility (PHB)
Shadow Double (DU)
Shadow Mask (SC)
Shadow Radiance (SC)
Shadow Shroud (DU)
Shadow Spray (SC)
Share Talents (PHB II)
Sink (Stm)
Slide, Greater (SC)
Snake’s Swiftness (SC)
Sonic Weapon (SC)
Soul of Anarchy (DM)
Soul of Order (DM)
Speak to Allies (SC)
Spider Climb (PHB)
Spymaster’s Coin (CS)
Steal Size (RotD)
Stone Bones (SC)
Stormrunner’s Ward (Stm)
Stretch Weapon (PHB II)
Sure Strike (PHB II)
Surefooted Stride (SC)
Swim (SC)
Swim (Stm)
Tern’s Persistence (Stm)
Turbidity (Stm)
Urchin’s Spines (Stm)
Vertigo (PHB II)
Vision of Entropy (FC I)
Wall of Gloom (SC)
Whirling Blade (SC)
Whispering Wind (PHB)
Wings of Air (SC)
Wraithstrike (SC)

3rd level
Air Breathing (SC)
Alter Fortune (PHB II)
Amorphous Form (SC)
Analyze Portal (SC)
Animate Weapon (CM)
Anticipate Teleportation (SC)
Antidragon Aura (SC)
Arcane Sight (PHB)
Arms of Plenty (LoM)
Avoid Planar Effects (SC)
Bite of the Wererat (SC)
Blink (PHB)
Circle Dance (SC)
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (PHB)
Claws of Darkness (SC)
Cone of Dimness (SC)
Control Temperature (Fr)
Crown of Clarity (PHB II)
Crown of Might (PHB II)
Crown of Protection (PHB II)
Curse of Arrow Attraction (PHB II)
Deceptive Facade (CM)
Deeper Darkvision (SC)
Demon Dirge (SC)
Detect Ship (Stm)
Devil Blight (SC)
Devil’s Eye (FC II)
Diamondsteel (SC)
Disobedience (CS)
Dispel Magic (PHB)
Displacement (PHB)
Distilled Joy (BoED)
Dolorous Blow (SC)
Dragonskin (SC)
Earthen Grace (SC)
Energy Aegis (PHB II)
Energy Surge (PHB II)
Energy Vulnerability (PHB II)
Eradicate Earth (SC)
Evard’s Menacing Tentacles (PHB II)
Explosive Runes (PHB)
False Gravity (SC)
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (DM)
Flame Arrow (PHB)
Fly (PHB)
Gaseous Form (PHB)
Giant’s Wrath (SC)
Girallon’s Blessing (SC)
Glacial Globe of Invulnerability (Fr)
Halt (PHB II)
Hamatula Barbs (SC)
Haste (PHB)
Heart of Water (CM)
Hood of the Cobra (CM)
Illusory Script (PHB)
Investiture of the Bearded Devil (FC II)
Investiture of the Chain Devil (FC II)
Invisibility Sphere (PHB)
Karmic Backlash (CM)
Keen Edge (PHB)
Least Dragonshape (DM)
Legion of Sentinels (PHB II)
Magic Circle against (alignment) (PHB)
Magic Weapon, Greater (PHB)
Major Image (PHB)
Mask of the Ideal (CM)
Mighty Wallop, Greater (RotD)
Nondetection (PHB)
Pall of Twilight (CM)
Phantasmal Injury (EoE)
Phantasmal Strangler (CM)
Phantom Guardians (RoD)
Primal Form (SC)
Protection from Dessication (Snd)
Protection from Energy (PHB)
Repair Serious Damage (SC)
Repelling Shield (CM)
Resist Taint (HoH)
Reverse Arrows (SC)
Rust Ray (SC)
Secret Page (PHB)
Sense of the Dragon (RotD)
Shadow Binding (SC)
Shadow Cache (SC)
Shadow Phase (SC)
Shape of the Hellspawned Stalker (CM)
Shrink Item (PHB)
Sign of Sealing (SC)
Siphon (CS)
Slow (PHB)
Snake’s Swiftness, Mass (SC)
Spectral Weapon (SC)
Spell Vulnerability (SC)
Spider Form (DU)
Spiderskin (SC)
Steeldance (SC)
Stony Grasp (SC)
Suspended Silence (SC)
Telepathic Bond, Lesser (SC)
Tenacious Dispelling (CM)
Tongues (PHB)
Tremorsense (SC)
Undulant Innards (LoM)
Unicorn Horn (CM)
Unluck (SC)
Vertigo Field (PHB II)
Vision of the Omniscient Eye (DM)
Walk the Mountain's Path (RoS)
Wand Modulation (CS)
Water Breathing (PHB)
Water to Acid (Stm)
Weapon of Energy (SC)
Weapon of Impact (SC)
Whispering Sand (Snd)
Wingblast (DM)

4th level
Aerial Alacrity (RotW)
Alliance Undone (EoE)
Arcane Eye (PHB)
Aspect of the Icy Hunter (CM)
Assay Spell Resistance (SC)
Attune Form (SC)
Backlash (SC)
Baleful Blink (PHB II)
Bite of the Werewolf (SC)
Blinding Breath (SC)
Call of Stone (PHB II)
Celerity (PHB II)
Condemnation (PHB II)
Corporeal Instability (SC)
Crown of Veils (PHB II)
Darkvision, Mass (SC)
Detect Scrying (PHB)
Dimensional Anchor (PHB)
Disguise Ship (Stm)
Dispelling Screen (SC)
Displacer Form (SC)
Enduring Flight (RotW)
Enlarge Person, Mass (PHB)
Entangling Staff (SC)
Fire Stride (SC)
Fire Trap (PHB)
Flame Whips (SC)
Flight of the Dragon (SC)
Forceward (SC)
Friendly Fire (EoE)
Fuse Sand (Snd)
Glacial Ward (Fr)
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (PHB)
Hallucinatory Terrain (PHB)
Heart of Earth (CM)
Ice Shield (Fr)
Illusory Wall (PHB)
Investiture of the Amnizu (FC II)
Investiture of the Erinyes (FC II)
Investiture of the Harvester Devil (FC II)
Investiture of the Steel Devil (FC II)
Invisibility, Greater (PHB)
Iron Bones (SC)
Know Vulnerabilities (SC)
Locate Creature (PHB)
Mark of the Enlightened Soul (DM)
Metal Melt (SC)
Mirror Image, Greater (PHB II)
Nightmare Terrain (CM)
Otiluke's Suppressing Field (CM)
Passage of the Shifting Sands (DM)
Perfect Summons (BoED)
Perinarch (SC)
Phantasmal Killer (PHB)
Phantom Battle (PHB II)
Polymorph (PHB)
Portal Alarm, Improved (SC)
Rainbow Pattern (PHB)
Raise from the Deep (SC)
Ray Deflection (SC)
Ray of Deanimation (SC)
Rebirth of Iron (CM)
Reduce Person, Mass (PHB)
Remove Curse (PHB)
Repair Critical Damage (SC)
Resist Energy, Mass (SC)
Resistance, Greater (SC)
Ruin Delver’s Fortune (SC)
Rusted Blade (CM)
Sandform (Snd)
Scramble Portal (SC)
Scrying (PHB)
Sensory Deprivation (SC)
Shadow Conjuration (PHB)
Shadow Well (SC)
Sharptooth (SC)
Slashing Dispel (PHB II)
Spell Enhancer (SC)
Stifle Spell (PHB II)
Stone Shape (PHB)
Stoneskin (PHB)
Touch of the Blackened Soul (DM)
Treasure Scent (SC)
Trollshape (PHB II)
Voice of the Dragon (SC)
Wall of (alignment) (SC)
Wings of Air, Greater (SC)

5th level
Airy Water (Stm)
Animal Growth (PHB)
Anticold Sphere (SC)
Antifire Sphere (Snd)
Baleful Polymorph (PHB)
Bite of the Wereboar (SC)
Blink, Greater (SC)
Break Enchantment (PHB)
Breath Weapon Substitution (SC)
Contact Other Plane (PHB)
Contingent Energy Resistance (SC)
Dance of Blades (PHB II)
Dismissal (PHB)
Dispel Water (Snd)
Dispelling Breath (SC)
Draconic Might (SC)
Draconic Polymorph (SC)
Dragonsight (SC)
Dream (PHB)
Duelward (SC)
Earth Reaver (SC)
Enlarge Person, Greater (SC)
Ethereal Breath (SC)
Etherealness, Swift (PHB II)
Fabricate (PHB)
False Vision (PHB)
Fever Dream (CM)
Field of Resistance (PHB II)
Fiendform (SC)
Flaying Tendrils (CM)
Flesh to Ice (Fr)
Flesh to Salt (Snd)
Flowsight (Stm)
Fly, Mass (SC)
Form of the Desert Hunter (DM)
Form of the Threefold Beast (CM)
Gutsnake (SC)
Heart of Fire (CM)
Ice Shape (Fr)
Ice to Flesh (Fr)
Illusory Feast (SC)
Indomitability (SC)
Investiture of the Narzugon (FC II)
Investiture of the Orthon (FC II)
Ironguard, Lesser (SC)
Lightning Leap (CM)
Lord of the Sky (DM)
Lucent Lance (SC)
Mana Flux (PHB II)
Mirage Arcana (PHB)
Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum (PHB)
Nightmare (PHB)
Nightstalker’s Transformation (SC)
Overland Flight (PHB)
Passwall (PHB)
Persistent Image (PHB)
Phantasmal Injury (EoE)
Planar Tolerance (SC)
Prying Eyes (PHB)
Reciprocal Gyre (SC)
Reduce Person, Greater (SC)
Refusal (SC)
Retributive Image (CM)
Seeming (PHB)
Shadow Evocation (PHB)
Shadow Form (SC)
Shadow Guardians (RoD)
Shadow Hand (SC)
Shadowfade (SC)
Spell Matrix, Lesser (SC)
Spell Theft (CS)
Spider Form, Greater (DU)
Stunning Breath (SC)
Surefooted Stride, Mass (SC)
Symbol of Spell Loss (SC)
Telekinesis (PHB)
Telepathic Bond (PHB)
Telepathy Block (BoED)
Touch of Adamantine (BoED)
Touch of Chaos (EoE)
Transformation of the Deeps (Stm)
Transmute Mud to Rock (PHB)
Transmute Rock to Mud (PHB)
Transmute Sand to Glass (Snd)
Transmute Sand to Stone (Snd)
Transmute Stone to Sand (Snd)
Unearthly Heat (Snd)
Unicorn Blood (CM)
Vanishing Weapon (BoED)
Vulnerability (SC)
Wall of Dispel Magic (SC)
Xorn Movement (SC)
Zone of Peace (Cty)
Zone of Respite (SC)

Credits to Thurbane as he is the one who compiled this list, which incidentally is taken from the Suel Arcanamach Handbook.

[Coidzor]

:smallconfused: Does this seems a minuscule list?

The following is a list of all spells available to arcanamachs from PHB, Complete Mage, Dragon Magic, Player's Handbook II and Spell Compendium.

1st level
Accelerated Movement (SC)
Alarm (PHB)
Alibi (EoE)
Animate Rope (PHB)
Appraising Touch (SC)
Armor Lock (CS)
Arrow Mind (SC)
Babau Slime (SC)
Bestow Wound (HoH)
Breath Flare (SC)
Burning Rage (PHB II)
Cheat (SC)
Color Spray (PHB)
Combat Readiness (DU)
Comprehend Languages (PHB)
Critical Strike (SC)
Cutting Hand (SC)
Dead End (SC)
Deflect, Lesser (PHB II)
Detect Dragonblood (DM)
Detect Secret Doors (PHB)
Detect Undead (PHB)
Detect Weaponry (Cty)
Discern Bloodline (RoD)
Disguise Self (PHB)
Dispel Ward (SC)
Ebon Eyes (SC)
Ectoplasmic Armor (SC)
Endure Elements (PHB)
Enlarge Person (PHB)
Erase (PHB)
Expeditious Retreat (PHB)
Expeditious Retreat, Swift (SC)
Eyes of the Avoral (BoED)
Feather Fall (PHB)
Fist of Stone (SC)
Float (Fr)
Friendly Face (RoD)
Ghostly Reload (RotD)
Golem Strike (SC)
Guided Shot (SC)
Hoard Gullet (DM)
Hold Portal (PHB)
Horrible Taste (SC)
Identify (PHB)
Insightful Feint (SC)
Instant Diversion (RotD)
Instant Locksmith (SC)
Instant Search (SC)
Ironguts (SC)
Jump (PHB)
Karmic Aura (CM)
Locate City (RoD)
Locate Water (Snd)
Low-Light Vision (SC)
Mage Burr (CS)
Mage Hand, Greater (SC)
Magic Aura (PHB)
Magic Weapon (PHB)
Master’s Touch (SC)
Mighty Wallop (RotD)
Nerveskitter (SC)
Nightshield (SC)
Path of Frost (DM)
Peacebond (Cty)
Portal Beacon (SC)
Protection from (alignment) (PHB)
Quickswim (Stm)
Raging Flame (SC)
Ray of Clumsiness (SC)
Reduce Person (PHB)
Remove Scent (SC)
Resist Planar Alignment (SC)
Scatterspray (SC)
Scholar’s Touch (RoD)
Secret Weapon (Cty)
Serene Visage (SC)
Shield (PHB)
Shieldbearer (SC)
Silent Image (PHB)
Slide (SC)
Slow Burn (SC)
Sniper’s Shot (SC)
Snowdrift (Fr)
Snuff the Light (DU)
Spell Flower (SC)
Spider Form, Lesser (DU)
Spontaneous Search (SC)
Sunstroke (Snd)
Targeting Ray (SC)
Treacherous Weapon (EoE)
True Casting (CM)
True Strike (PHB)
Ventriloquism (PHB)
Vigilant Slumber (CM)
Wave Blessing (Stm)
Weapon Shift (SC)

2nd level
Aiming at the Target (SC)
Alarm, Greater (SC)
Allied Footsteps (CM)
Alter Self (PHB)
Animalistic Power (PHB II)
Arcane Lock (PHB)
Arcane Turmoil (CM)
Attentive Alarm (CM)
Augment Familiar (SC)
Balancing Lorecall (SC)
Balor Nimbus (SC)
Bear’s Endurance (PHB)
Belker Claws (SC)
Bladeweave (SC)
Blinding Color Surge (PHB II)
Blur (PHB)
Body of the Sun (SC)
Boiling Blood (CM)
Bristle (SC)
Brumal Stiffening (Fr)
Bull’s Strength (PHB)
Cat’s Grace (PHB)
Catapult (CS)
Celerity, Lesser (PHB II)
Chain of Eyes (SC)
Cloak Pool (SC)
Crystalline Memories (CM)
Daggerspell Stance (SC)
Dark Way (SC)
Darkvision (PHB)
Deflect (PHB II)
Delusions of Grandeur (SC)
Detect Aberration (LoM)
Detect Thoughts (PHB)
Discern Shapechanger (SC)
Discolor Pool (SC)
Disguise Undead (SC)
Dispelling Touch (PHB II)
Dissonant Chant (SC)
Distracting Ray (SC)
Eagle’s Splendor (PHB)
Earth Lock (SC)
Earthbind (SC)
Earthen Grasp (SC)
Ectoplasmic Feedback (SC)
Energize Potion (BoED)
Energy Surge, Lesser (PHB II)
Enlarge Weapon (CS)
Extend Tentacles (SC)
False Peacebond (Cty)
Fearsome Grapple (SC)
Fins to Feet (SC)
Fly, Swift (SC)
Fox’s Cunning (PHB)
Frost Weapon (Fr)
Fuse Arms (SC)
Ghost Touch Armor (SC)
Heart of Air (CM)
Heroics (SC)
Hurl (SC)
Hypnotic Pattern (PHB)
Icicle (Fr)
Increase Virulence (PHB II)
Infernal Wound (SC)
Insight of Good Fortune (PHB II)
Investiture of the Spined Devil (FC II)
Invisibility (PHB)
Ironthunder Horn (SC)
Jaws of the Moray (Stm)
Knock (PHB)
Kuo-Toa Skin (Stm)
Levitate (PHB)
Lively Step (SC)
Locate Object (PHB)
Lucky Streak (CS)
Magic Mouth (PHB)
Magical Backlash (DU)
Marked Object (SC)
Master’s Touch (PHB II)
Minor Image (PHB)
Mirror Image (PHB)
Misdirection (PHB)
Mountain Stance (SC)
Obscure Object (PHB)
Owl’s Wisdom (PHB)
Phantasmal Assailants (SC)
Phantom Trap (PHB)
Portal Alarm (SC)
Protection from Arrows (PHB)
Pyrotechnics (PHB)
Quick Potion (SC)
Razorfangs (SC)
Reflective Disguise (SC)
Repair Moderate Damage (SC)
Resist Energy (PHB)
Returning Weapon (RotW)
Rope Trick (PHB)
Scale Weakening (SC)
Scintillating Scales (SC)
See Invisibility (PHB)
Shadow Double (DU)
Shadow Mask (SC)
Shadow Radiance (SC)
Shadow Shroud (DU)
Shadow Spray (SC)
Share Talents (PHB II)
Sink (Stm)
Slide, Greater (SC)
Snake’s Swiftness (SC)
Sonic Weapon (SC)
Soul of Anarchy (DM)
Soul of Order (DM)
Speak to Allies (SC)
Spider Climb (PHB)
Spymaster’s Coin (CS)
Steal Size (RotD)
Stone Bones (SC)
Stormrunner’s Ward (Stm)
Stretch Weapon (PHB II)
Sure Strike (PHB II)
Surefooted Stride (SC)
Swim (SC)
Swim (Stm)
Tern’s Persistence (Stm)
Turbidity (Stm)
Urchin’s Spines (Stm)
Vertigo (PHB II)
Vision of Entropy (FC I)
Wall of Gloom (SC)
Whirling Blade (SC)
Whispering Wind (PHB)
Wings of Air (SC)
Wraithstrike (SC)

3rd level
Air Breathing (SC)
Alter Fortune (PHB II)
Amorphous Form (SC)
Analyze Portal (SC)
Animate Weapon (CM)
Anticipate Teleportation (SC)
Antidragon Aura (SC)
Arcane Sight (PHB)
Arms of Plenty (LoM)
Avoid Planar Effects (SC)
Bite of the Wererat (SC)
Blink (PHB)
Circle Dance (SC)
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (PHB)
Claws of Darkness (SC)
Cone of Dimness (SC)
Control Temperature (Fr)
Crown of Clarity (PHB II)
Crown of Might (PHB II)
Crown of Protection (PHB II)
Curse of Arrow Attraction (PHB II)
Deceptive Facade (CM)
Deeper Darkvision (SC)
Demon Dirge (SC)
Detect Ship (Stm)
Devil Blight (SC)
Devil’s Eye (FC II)
Diamondsteel (SC)
Disobedience (CS)
Dispel Magic (PHB)
Displacement (PHB)
Distilled Joy (BoED)
Dolorous Blow (SC)
Dragonskin (SC)
Earthen Grace (SC)
Energy Aegis (PHB II)
Energy Surge (PHB II)
Energy Vulnerability (PHB II)
Eradicate Earth (SC)
Evard’s Menacing Tentacles (PHB II)
Explosive Runes (PHB)
False Gravity (SC)
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (DM)
Flame Arrow (PHB)
Fly (PHB)
Gaseous Form (PHB)
Giant’s Wrath (SC)
Girallon’s Blessing (SC)
Glacial Globe of Invulnerability (Fr)
Halt (PHB II)
Hamatula Barbs (SC)
Haste (PHB)
Heart of Water (CM)
Hood of the Cobra (CM)
Illusory Script (PHB)
Investiture of the Bearded Devil (FC II)
Investiture of the Chain Devil (FC II)
Invisibility Sphere (PHB)
Karmic Backlash (CM)
Keen Edge (PHB)
Least Dragonshape (DM)
Legion of Sentinels (PHB II)
Magic Circle against (alignment) (PHB)
Magic Weapon, Greater (PHB)
Major Image (PHB)
Mask of the Ideal (CM)
Mighty Wallop, Greater (RotD)
Nondetection (PHB)
Pall of Twilight (CM)
Phantasmal Injury (EoE)
Phantasmal Strangler (CM)
Phantom Guardians (RoD)
Primal Form (SC)
Protection from Dessication (Snd)
Protection from Energy (PHB)
Repair Serious Damage (SC)
Repelling Shield (CM)
Resist Taint (HoH)
Reverse Arrows (SC)
Rust Ray (SC)
Secret Page (PHB)
Sense of the Dragon (RotD)
Shadow Binding (SC)
Shadow Cache (SC)
Shadow Phase (SC)
Shape of the Hellspawned Stalker (CM)
Shrink Item (PHB)
Sign of Sealing (SC)
Siphon (CS)
Slow (PHB)
Snake’s Swiftness, Mass (SC)
Spectral Weapon (SC)
Spell Vulnerability (SC)
Spider Form (DU)
Spiderskin (SC)
Steeldance (SC)
Stony Grasp (SC)
Suspended Silence (SC)
Telepathic Bond, Lesser (SC)
Tenacious Dispelling (CM)
Tongues (PHB)
Tremorsense (SC)
Undulant Innards (LoM)
Unicorn Horn (CM)
Unluck (SC)
Vertigo Field (PHB II)
Vision of the Omniscient Eye (DM)
Walk the Mountain's Path (RoS)
Wand Modulation (CS)
Water Breathing (PHB)
Water to Acid (Stm)
Weapon of Energy (SC)
Weapon of Impact (SC)
Whispering Sand (Snd)
Wingblast (DM)

4th level
Aerial Alacrity (RotW)
Alliance Undone (EoE)
Arcane Eye (PHB)
Aspect of the Icy Hunter (CM)
Assay Spell Resistance (SC)
Attune Form (SC)
Backlash (SC)
Baleful Blink (PHB II)
Bite of the Werewolf (SC)
Blinding Breath (SC)
Call of Stone (PHB II)
Celerity (PHB II)
Condemnation (PHB II)
Corporeal Instability (SC)
Crown of Veils (PHB II)
Darkvision, Mass (SC)
Detect Scrying (PHB)
Dimensional Anchor (PHB)
Disguise Ship (Stm)
Dispelling Screen (SC)
Displacer Form (SC)
Enduring Flight (RotW)
Enlarge Person, Mass (PHB)
Entangling Staff (SC)
Fire Stride (SC)
Fire Trap (PHB)
Flame Whips (SC)
Flight of the Dragon (SC)
Forceward (SC)
Friendly Fire (EoE)
Fuse Sand (Snd)
Glacial Ward (Fr)
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (PHB)
Hallucinatory Terrain (PHB)
Heart of Earth (CM)
Ice Shield (Fr)
Illusory Wall (PHB)
Investiture of the Amnizu (FC II)
Investiture of the Erinyes (FC II)
Investiture of the Harvester Devil (FC II)
Investiture of the Steel Devil (FC II)
Invisibility, Greater (PHB)
Iron Bones (SC)
Know Vulnerabilities (SC)
Locate Creature (PHB)
Mark of the Enlightened Soul (DM)
Metal Melt (SC)
Mirror Image, Greater (PHB II)
Nightmare Terrain (CM)
Otiluke's Suppressing Field (CM)
Passage of the Shifting Sands (DM)
Perfect Summons (BoED)
Perinarch (SC)
Phantasmal Killer (PHB)
Phantom Battle (PHB II)
Polymorph (PHB)
Portal Alarm, Improved (SC)
Rainbow Pattern (PHB)
Raise from the Deep (SC)
Ray Deflection (SC)
Ray of Deanimation (SC)
Rebirth of Iron (CM)
Reduce Person, Mass (PHB)
Remove Curse (PHB)
Repair Critical Damage (SC)
Resist Energy, Mass (SC)
Resistance, Greater (SC)
Ruin Delver’s Fortune (SC)
Rusted Blade (CM)
Sandform (Snd)
Scramble Portal (SC)
Scrying (PHB)
Sensory Deprivation (SC)
Shadow Conjuration (PHB)
Shadow Well (SC)
Sharptooth (SC)
Slashing Dispel (PHB II)
Spell Enhancer (SC)
Stifle Spell (PHB II)
Stone Shape (PHB)
Stoneskin (PHB)
Touch of the Blackened Soul (DM)
Treasure Scent (SC)
Trollshape (PHB II)
Voice of the Dragon (SC)
Wall of (alignment) (SC)
Wings of Air, Greater (SC)

5th level
Airy Water (Stm)
Animal Growth (PHB)
Anticold Sphere (SC)
Antifire Sphere (Snd)
Baleful Polymorph (PHB)
Bite of the Wereboar (SC)
Blink, Greater (SC)
Break Enchantment (PHB)
Breath Weapon Substitution (SC)
Contact Other Plane (PHB)
Contingent Energy Resistance (SC)
Dance of Blades (PHB II)
Dismissal (PHB)
Dispel Water (Snd)
Dispelling Breath (SC)
Draconic Might (SC)
Draconic Polymorph (SC)
Dragonsight (SC)
Dream (PHB)
Duelward (SC)
Earth Reaver (SC)
Enlarge Person, Greater (SC)
Ethereal Breath (SC)
Etherealness, Swift (PHB II)
Fabricate (PHB)
False Vision (PHB)
Fever Dream (CM)
Field of Resistance (PHB II)
Fiendform (SC)
Flaying Tendrils (CM)
Flesh to Ice (Fr)
Flesh to Salt (Snd)
Flowsight (Stm)
Fly, Mass (SC)
Form of the Desert Hunter (DM)
Form of the Threefold Beast (CM)
Gutsnake (SC)
Heart of Fire (CM)
Ice Shape (Fr)
Ice to Flesh (Fr)
Illusory Feast (SC)
Indomitability (SC)
Investiture of the Narzugon (FC II)
Investiture of the Orthon (FC II)
Ironguard, Lesser (SC)
Lightning Leap (CM)
Lord of the Sky (DM)
Lucent Lance (SC)
Mana Flux (PHB II)
Mirage Arcana (PHB)
Mordenkainen’s Private Sanctum (PHB)
Nightmare (PHB)
Nightstalker’s Transformation (SC)
Overland Flight (PHB)
Passwall (PHB)
Persistent Image (PHB)
Phantasmal Injury (EoE)
Planar Tolerance (SC)
Prying Eyes (PHB)
Reciprocal Gyre (SC)
Reduce Person, Greater (SC)
Refusal (SC)
Retributive Image (CM)
Seeming (PHB)
Shadow Evocation (PHB)
Shadow Form (SC)
Shadow Guardians (RoD)
Shadow Hand (SC)
Shadowfade (SC)
Spell Matrix, Lesser (SC)
Spell Theft (CS)
Spider Form, Greater (DU)
Stunning Breath (SC)
Surefooted Stride, Mass (SC)
Symbol of Spell Loss (SC)
Telekinesis (PHB)
Telepathic Bond (PHB)
Telepathy Block (BoED)
Touch of Adamantine (BoED)
Touch of Chaos (EoE)
Transformation of the Deeps (Stm)
Transmute Mud to Rock (PHB)
Transmute Rock to Mud (PHB)
Transmute Sand to Glass (Snd)
Transmute Sand to Stone (Snd)
Transmute Stone to Sand (Snd)
Unearthly Heat (Snd)
Unicorn Blood (CM)
Vanishing Weapon (BoED)
Vulnerability (SC)
Wall of Dispel Magic (SC)
Xorn Movement (SC)
Zone of Peace (Cty)
Zone of Respite (SC)

Credits to Thurbane as he is the one who compiled this list, which incidentally is taken from the Suel Arcanamach Handbook.

Huh, thought they had a set list and didn't benefit from the Spell Compendium at all. Well, the more you know, I suppose.

[Dusk Eclipse]

They can select spells from any Wiz/Sorc spells from Illusion, Divination, Transmutation and possible enchantment, though I am not sure on the last one.

[herrhauptmann]

They can select spells from any Wiz/Sorc spells from Illusion, Divination, Transmutation and possible enchantment, though I am not sure on the last one.

Evocation, not enchantment.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Just checked and it's neither; but they have access to abjuration.

[Snowbluff]

Okay. Looking at Duskblade. looking at their Channeling ability. Looking at their spell list. This is a joke right?

Do they know any melee touch spells? :smallconfused:

Then I looks further down. The book lies to you. The beguiler list is not on page 98 as their spellcasting description would like you to think. It's on page 24.

Even if PHBII wasn't one of my least favorite books, it would be now. :smallannoyed:

[dspeyer]

One more thought: you can effectively make sorcerer tier 3 by taking a very limiting Sacred Vow. "Never use magic on a thinking being without its permission" might suffice.

[Snowbluff]

One more thought: you can effectively make sorcerer tier 3 by taking a very limiting Sacred Vow. "Never use magic on a thinking being without its permission" might suffice.

...

I don't know how to respond.

You could not even buff yourself. Or use spells to attack. Or, if taken very seriously, do anything to injure/stop creature with magic. Just... no. That's way more work than I would like to have put into this.

[Coidzor]

Okay. Looking at Duskblade. looking at their Channeling ability. Looking at their spell list. This is a joke right?

Well, I think so, but the consensus seems to be a negative on that.

It is, however, pretty much incapable of breaking a campaign.

[Darth Stabber]

Okay. Looking at Duskblade. looking at their Channeling ability. Looking at their spell list. This is a joke right?

Do they know any melee touch spells? :smallconfused:

Then I looks further down. The book lies to you. The beguiler list is not on page 98 as their spellcasting description would like you to think. It's on page 24.

Even if PHBII wasn't one of my least favorite books, it would be now. :smallannoyed:


Well, I think so, but the consensus seems to be a negative on that.

It is, however, pretty much incapable of breaking a campaign.

While somewhat incapable of breaking campaigns, it is really strong single target DPR, but it lacks the versatility that the class description tries to convince you of. It isn't a joke, and is a fairly usable class in t3, though they lost a lot of lustre when warblades came on the scene (despite out damaging them). They have the really nice toy of arcane channelling, which means they don't really need touch spells (though shocking grasp is a great lowlvl spell for them). Hard to abuse (outside of gestalt), but easy to use.

In gestalt duskblade//archivist is really scary good.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Duskblade is the next thing I'm splatting out for exactly this reason (though that falls under the category of homebrew, which is a no-no for a lot of people).

At the very least, give it Combust or something, and maybe an ability damage touch or two (if you're feeling real generous, give it Shivering Touch; otherwise, go for some lesser ability damage touches and condition-creating touches). Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch are more or less all they've got, if I recall.

Throwing my lot in for Bard. In particular, Paladin of Freedom/Bard is flavorful, fun, and effective. No, it doesn't get 9ths, but Bards also have a well-supported list and a wide array of abilities, the CHA synergy is off the charts (+CHA to saves for Paladin 2, CHA to attack and damage with Slippers of Battledancing from DMGII, then attack again a second time with Snowflake Wardance [Frostburn] and damage again with Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows [Dragon Compendium], or if you're attacking with the Bow of Song [Magic Item Compendium], plus the odd smite, etc., etc.), plus they gain a lot of good buffs... It's just hard to ignore them for a T3 setting.

Really, it's hard to go wrong with any CHA-focused caster with a two-level Paladin dip, if the game isn't high-powered.

[herrhauptmann]

...

I don't know how to respond.

You could not even buff yourself. Or use spells to attack. Or, if taken very seriously, do anything to injure/stop creature with magic. Just... no. That's way more work than I would like to have put into this.

Should be able to buff yourself. I mean, you're casting on yourself. But if it's a buff with multiple targets besides yourself (haste), you can't even put it on your allies without first asking them. Even if talking is a free action, sometimes you want to be as quiet as possible.

[darksolitaire]

In gestalt, assuming no PrCs, my vote goes to Beguiler/Duskblade, Bard/Duskblade or Dread Necromancer/Duskblade. In the last, DN's necromancy combines well with DB's arcane channeling, but it lacks in traditional self buffs.

[aazru]

A while ago I was considering something along those lines. I'm fuzzy on the details but maybe you can use. The following is just the outlines:

Duskblade 13/Enlightened Fist 7.
Duskblade 6/Suel Arcanamah 3-4/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champ 1-2.

And to stir up some debate:

Focused Specialist Wizard 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champ 4.

I don't remember, there probably was Master Specialist in there. It has alternate class features to juggle around, 3 banned schools and only 8s. Promise to behave and maybe you can use something like that. :smallamused:

[gorfnab]

Throwing my lot in for Bard. In particular, Paladin of Freedom/Bard is flavorful, fun, and effective...
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
BAB 16 and 9th level spells.

[dextercorvia]

Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
BAB 16 and 9th level spells.

It's not really T3 at that point, no?

[Snowbluff]

It's not really T3 at that point, no?

Yeah, don't Sublime Chords get selection of Sorc spells? Like a Sorcerer?

[herrhauptmann]

Yeah, don't Sublime Chords get selection of Sorc spells? Like a Sorcerer?

Wiz\sorc\bard spells. If one spell is on both wiz\sorc and bard lists, I think you're supposed to take the wiz\sorc level. Like Haste: wiz3, but bard 2. So you'd take it as a third level spell.
Well haste is bard3, but you get the idea.
However, it has a lot fewer spells known and spells per day than a sorc does. So that alone should make it very low tier 2, or even tier 3 (Never been good at judging tiers).

[Snowbluff]

Wiz\sorc\bard spells. If one spell is on both wiz\sorc and bard lists, I think you're supposed to take the wiz\sorc level. Like Haste: wiz3, but bard 2. So you'd take it as a third level spell.
Well haste is bard3, but you get the idea.
However, it has a lot fewer spells known and spells per day than a sorc does. So that alone should make it very low tier 2, or even tier 3 (Never been good at judging tiers).

They know the same number of 4ths, 5ths and 8ths, 1 more 6th and 7th, and 1 less 9th. They have better skills than Sorc, Bardic Music, and actually have class features.

[dextercorvia]

Wiz\sorc\bard spells. If one spell is on both wiz\sorc and bard lists, I think you're supposed to take the wiz\sorc level. Like Haste: wiz3, but bard 2. So you'd take it as a third level spell.
Well haste is bard3, but you get the idea.
However, it has a lot fewer spells known and spells per day than a sorc does. So that alone should make it very low tier 2, or even tier 3 (Never been good at judging tiers).

Actually, they get to use the bard version which is usually lower.

[Fyermind]

I'm not sure what level op you really want, but for mid/low op a Dread Necromancer with a crusader dip (emphasis on ally boosts), can be a reasonably survivable melee character.

In a low point buy game particularly they can drop con low it's a potato, and go necropolitian to have decent HP the whole time. By using stone power/divine might/power attack on charnel touch they can do decent damage with good accuracy, and they can use arcane strike with higher level spell slots for ultimate fun.

Also a lot of DN spells are touch spells which means they can be combined with stone power as well.

Finally they can get a few beefy undead at their beck and call around level 9-10 which is when they loose a bit of defensive steam. (due to 10 temporary hp/round becoming less helpful)

A no PRC build might look like:
Dread Necromancer 2/Crusader 1 /DN +4/ Crusader +1/DN +8/ Crusader +1/ DN +X

I'm not a prestige wiz, and since the dread necro is pretty level dependent, I'm inclined not to prc out. Certainly someone could take a munchkin stick to this if they wanted to.

This is nice if your Gish wants to use magic to get better at killing, but not if your gish wants to use magic to get better when not killing. Abjurant champion and a dip in something with access to mage armor + shield might help a bit.