How do astrally projecting wizards keep from getting silver-cord-ganked?

[TuggyNE]

I've heard a whole lot about wizards etc that use astral projection all the time... but I think I'm missing something, because that really seems vulnerable to any old random schmoe on the astral plane with a silver weapon. Which... doesn't seem that hard to achieve at pre-epic levels? Sure, just randomly cutting silver cords when you see them is a pretty jerk thing to do (but LOLEVULZ types don't care), and finding a particular target's cord would require divination, and... oh. I seeeee. Mind blank, fair enough.

OK, revising a bit: are astrally projecting wizards just hoping no one stumbles over their cord by mistake? Or do they have some more proactive measure than just "no one knows which one is mine"*?

*Security by obscurity, anyone?

[Lapak]

It takes more than just any old silver weapon to cut a cord. The Githyanki have specific magical items that they happen to call Silver Swords that can do it, but those are purpose-enchanted, rare magic items that not just anyone has.

[Douglas]

A) The silver cord is only possible to perceive or attack within a few feet of the wizard's actual body or his projected body.
B) The ability to damage silver cords is not something conferred by the silver special material. It is a special magical property unique to the Silver Swords of the Githyanki. Only the Githyanki know how to create this unique magical property, only their relatively high level warriors are privileged to wield these special swords, and they go to extraordinary lengths to prevent any non-Githyanki from having a Silver Sword. Silver Swords are not available for purchase, and any non-Githyanki who acquires one instantly becomes a top priority target for Githyanki enforcers. Thus, threats capable of damaging a silver cord are rare and special.

[Hirax]

The mechanics of silver cords aren't spelled out anywhere. Where are they present? Does the cord have a fixed entry point into the plane a projection travels to, and it then stretches to follow wherever you go, creating a super long sort of tether? We know that Githyanki silver swords can cut them, but we don't know anything about what a Githyanki silver sword is. If could be just a sword made of mundane silver and made by Githyanki, but it could just as easily need to be something more.

[Lapak]

We know that Githyanki silver swords can cut them, but we don't know anything about what a Githyanki silver sword is. If could be just a sword made of mundane silver and made by Githyanki, but it could just as easily need to be something more.Actually, the silver swords are fully statted out in 1e, 2e and 3e and specifically called out as being uniquely dangerous to silver cords. And the Astral Projection spell itself notes that almost nothing can damage the cord, which wouldn't be the case if 'anything silver' could do the job.

[Aharon]

In this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864954/Do_these_spells_work_the_way_I_interpret_them?pg=1 ) thread on the WotC boards, I discussed the topic in depth with some other users. I started out thinking that the silvery cord can be destroyed with a ghost touch weapon, I was convinced this is not the case. Formatting is bad because of board changes over there :smallannoyed:

[TuggyNE]

Wow, I could have sworn the spell description said pretty much any silver weapons... Chalk this one up to reading comprehension fail, then. :smallredface:

Thanks all!

[Urpriest]

There are things besides Githyanki that can destroy the cords, though they're also uncommon. Off the top of my head, one of the monsters in the Manual of the Planes has the ability.

In general though, if you can get close enough to the Wizard to slice it, you're close enough for the Wizard to kill you first.

[Demonic_Spoon]

The Snare Astral Traveller spell from the Book of Vile Darkness anyone?

[Piggy Knowles]

I have played two characters that used Astral Projection shenanigans. One was a thaumaturgist with a nightmare planar cohort, and I had a contingent conjuration up, keyed in to Greater Planar Ally, in case someone somehow caught me napping. The other was a wizard with Craft Contingent Spell. I didn't run into any problems.

[Psyren]

Information on the cord can be found in Manual of the Planes pg. 49. It extends only 5 feet from the astral traveler. And perhaps more importantly is the following quote: "Monsters, items, and circumstances cannot sever a silver cord unless this ability is specifically noted."


The Snare Astral Traveller spell from the Book of Vile Darkness anyone?

This spell is unfortunately a joke. Range medium, Will negates, SR: yes, and they can still do things that don't require moving - say, speaking the command word of a contingency/item, using an SLA or still spell, change forms with your active shapechange, even direct your familiar. Worse, it's 6th-level, while Astral Projection is 9th, making it very easy for its caster to bite off much more than he can chew.

[Eurus]

An Astral Projection can be dispelled, at least, but the CL cap on Greater Dispel Magic means that it's not too hard to boost the DC to be impossible. Disjunction blasts it apart, but it has problems of its own.

[Psyren]

An Astral Projection can be dispelled, at least, but the CL cap on Greater Dispel Magic means that it's not too hard to boost the DC to be impossible. Disjunction blasts it apart, but it has problems of its own.

Even if you succeed though, the wizard himself is unharmed. This goes double for disjunction - disjoining the astral copies of his gear does nothing to the genuine articles.

[Silva Stormrage]

Even if you succeed though, the wizard himself is unharmed. This goes double for disjunction - disjoining the astral copies of his gear does nothing to the genuine articles.

It IS useful for removing the astral projections though. Not so much killing the wizard but he probably only has so many Astral Projections each day :smallbiggrin:

[Demonic_Spoon]

This spell is unfortunately a joke. Range medium, Will negates, SR: yes, and they can still do things that don't require moving - say, speaking the command word of a contingency/item, using an SLA or still spell, change forms with your active shapechange, even direct your familiar. Worse, it's 6th-level, while Astral Projection is 9th, making it very easy for its caster to bite off much more than he can chew.

Speaking the command word would require moving their mouth no? Admittedly SLAs and Still Spells are still problems, but how many still spells is the wizard going to have prepared? Even if you change forms that doesn't help you since you still can't move. Familiars are usually not that difficult to defeat fortunately, unless you buff the hell out of them.

A Heightened, Enlarged(rod if possible), Irresistible(using various metamagic reducers) Snare Astral Traveler(with extend thrown in here if you can afford it) cast by someone who had buffed their CL way high(Suffer the flesh etc.) and possibly a few assay spell resistances would be tough to beat no? And then you can cast various save or dies or whatever at the wizard until he fails a save. Heck, a Irresistible Trap the Soul where you know the target's name can't be beaten.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I thought the way to pull of the trick was Astral projection > astral plane > New plane to create a new physical body> greater plane shift to wherever. Since you only have a silver cord while on the astral plane once you manifest on a new plane and get a new body all you have to worry about is your original body on the material plane.

[Hirax]

Having just read the rules for silver swords (thank you for pointing them out!), it appears that silver swords are only capable of severing cords on the astral plane. So when you're exploring the material plane, only astral dreadnoughts can slice your chord, which is possible if someone is using shapechange or polymorph with reserves of strength. Alternatively, you could somehow get yourself considered to be native to the astral plane, then cast planar bubble, and that would arguably cause the silver sword to be on the astral plane no matter where you are, and thus be able to cut chords. Anything capable of pulling off either of those things probably has better tricks they can use, though.

[Necroticplague]

Having just read the rules for silver swords (thank you for pointing them out!), it appears that silver swords are only capable of severing cords on the astral plane. So when you're exploring the material plane, only astral dreadnoughts can slice your chord, which is possible if someone is using shapechange or polymorph with reserves of strength. Alternatively, you could somehow get yourself considered to be native to the astral plane, then cast planar bubble, and that would arguably cause the silver sword to be on the astral plane no matter where you are, and thus be able to cut chords. Anything capable of pulling off either of those things probably has better tricks they can use, though.

Thus, why Astral Projection is powerful, when beating it involves using some of the most cheesetastic spells that exist (planar bubble, shapeshifting magic).

[Doc Roc]

Thus, why Astral Projection is powerful, when beating it involves using some of the most cheesetastic spells that exist (planar bubble, shapeshifting magic).

Ahhh shapeshift. Like cheese coated in butter then deep-fried, rebreaded in aged pecorino, and then refried.

[Psyren]

Speaking the command word would require moving their mouth no?

"Motionless" is not defined in D&D. It is up to DM interpretation whether this means that all movement is prohibited, or simply the act of moving from one square to another.

And I see nothing in that spell that prevents Freedom of Movement/Heart of Water from affecting it either.


Admittedly SLAs and Still Spells are still problems, but how many still spells is the wizard going to have prepared?

One? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm)


Even if you change forms that doesn't help you since you still can't move.

Oh really? "You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm) A wizard capable of 9ths has access to nearly every monster in the game.


A Heightened, Enlarged(rod if possible), Irresistible(using various metamagic reducers) Snare Astral Traveler(with extend thrown in here if you can afford it) cast by someone who had buffed their CL way high(Suffer the flesh etc.) and possibly a few assay spell resistances would be tough to beat no? And then you can cast various save or dies or whatever at the wizard until he fails a save. Heck, a Irresistible Trap the Soul where you know the target's name can't be beaten.

Or you could use all that optimization on a spell that isn't terrible.

[askandarion]

Ahhh shapeshift. Like cheese coated in butter then deep-fried, rebreaded in aged pecorino, and then refried.

That... sounds delicious. /Southerner.

[vampire2948]

Can't you just have your Astral Projection astrally project itself? Then leave the first astral projection sitting next to you in your ridiculously fortified Demiplane, while the second astral projection goes and does whatever needs to be done?

If it's sword gets cut, your first astral projection dies, which means that your original body suffers no harm other than needing to recast it.

Am I missing something?

[ahenobarbi]

Can't you just have your Astral Projection astrally project itself? Then leave the first astral projection sitting next to you in your ridiculously fortified Demiplane, while the second astral projection goes and does whatever needs to be done?

If it's sword gets cut, your first astral projection dies, which means that your original body suffers no harm other than needing to recast it.

Am I missing something?

Spell text says "you are killed, astrally and physically" when "silver cord is broken". So having astral projection cast astral projection doesn't help.

[sreservoir]

It IS useful for removing the astral projections though. Not so much killing the wizard but he probably only has so many Astral Projections each day :smallbiggrin:

LPB is cheap enough, and gets you a nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm).