Your ideal two-man squad

[danzibr]

I was thinking of a campaign where there are only two players and was wondering you would consider a good two-man squad, valid from 1-20. Like, for me I'd imagine some sort of skill monkey/arcane caster and maybe a fighter/divine caster.

I know people will say stuff like "a Cleric and a vegetable" or "a Druid and a spoon" or "a Wizard and a raccoon" (not that a Wizard needs any help, but my son is playing with something and it said raccoon), but if you've seen a lot of my posts you know I value style points. And by that I mean... not just mechanically the absolute most versatility and blasting power two people can get, but two builds which seem to go well together.

Anyways, to go first:

Bard/Mindbender/Virtuoso/Sublime Chord + Cleric

I'd like to throw some Warblades in there 'cuz they're so cool, but I'll (for now) stick with the above.

[smasher0404]

Druid and Wizard,
You now have all your bases covered
Melee: Druid's Animal Companion plus wildshape
Divine Magic: Druid
Arcane Magic: Wizard
Skills: Wizard would have intelligence and there are spells that boost skill checks.

[Madara]

Go team cleric :durkon:

Anywho, I'd go with an Artificer and a Psion/Sheepleader Thrallherd. The two of which have the most potential.
The Artificer could be a blastificer, party face, Item maker.
The Thrallherd can pull of the minions without worry, and have the flexibility of a Psion.

It's not too powerful, because neither of them could go it alone.

[Manateee]

Bard/Mystic Ranger (no SotAO)

Kind of boring at first glance, but comparable combat ability (the Bard has more room for upward optimization, but it will typically improve the Bard's allies as well), comparable out of combat ability, both able to cover healing duties (important in 2-man team, especially at low levels), both mature early, little spell list overlap beyond cure spells, enough skills and spells to be creative, but few enough to be anticipated by a canny DM.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I think the most important levels if you're going from 1 to 20 are the first few, since those are IMO the hardest to survive. With that said, I'm going Druid/Beguiler. Beguilers are incredible at level 1. They're like sorcerers who know more spells than a wizard even has in his spellbook (and have most of the good ones), throwing in the d6 HD, light armor proficiency and great skills. Wizard, of course, comes into his own at the later levels, but with a Druid in tow the team will be okay in higher levels.

You could replace Beguiler with Archivist or an Unseen Seer if you didn't care as much about the low levels, but Druid IMO is non-negotiable. Having a relatively expendable tank at first level is priceless.

[gkathellar]

A mailman incantrix sorcerer teamed up with a batman IotSV wizard. Basically it would be the classic Superman/Batman team up — the gentle, charismatic force of nature and the jaded, brilliant tactician, casting spells back to back, a perfect friendship for all its rough patches — just two buddies taking on the world.

If you really want we can drop the sorcerer for a Rainbow Warsnake. I guess.

[FMArthur]

Factotum + Binder/Chameleon

One does a little bit of everything all the time, and the other does a more comprehensive anything one at a time.

Both characters take Wild Cohort for an extra friend in melee. In fact I would do this on pretty much any character that isn't already a druid or type of summoner if I were ever in a 2-man party.

[Treblain]

I'd go with bard/sublime chord and cleric too, but I'd make the cleric a malconvoker. The bard's IC/DFI boosts are more powerful if you can get a bunch of summons as frontline fighters.

[Psyren]

Tashalatora Ardent for heart and muscle
Psionic Artificer for brains and traps

The cool thing about this combo is that they are the only psionic characters in the game that can apply metapsionics without limit (The Ardent to his dominant ideal, and the Artificer to his items.) With the Artificer's help and the Magic Mantle, they can make and use almost every magic item in the game as well.

[danzibr]

After reading the dwarf sumo thread, I thought a Samurai + Ninja team would be pretty cool.

[Randomguy]

SotAO mystic wildshape ranger and Archivist (with a bit of multiclassing and dipping into PrC's to get turn undead for DMM persist)

The mystic ranger has arcane casting, some backup divine casting, good melee, skill points and perhaps most importantly, with the ACF from dungeonscape, trapfinding and search. The archivist has full casting from any divine list and can even get arcane spells to cast as divine spells and persist them way. (Hooray for using teamwork to make scrolls!)

The archivist would probably dip a level of mindbender, one of sacred exorcist and one of cloistered cleric with a variant to make the turn attempts from there stack with those from sacred exorcist for more turn attempts, and use them to layer on all day buffs.
The ranger would prestige into abjurant champion and later into some other class after level 10, maybe master of many forms.

Archivist always seemed to me like the higher grade version of the wizard: Stronger, but more expensive (although slightly more reliant on the DM and setting to work).

[Dr.Epic]

Two rogues or rogue/bard: something that promises a lot of hi-jinx

Or fighter/cleric or paladin/cleric: something with a good combat duo that's (slightly) aligned towards some dogma

[Psyren]

After reading the dwarf sumo thread, I thought a Samurai + Ninja team would be pretty cool.

Why yes, Warblade + Swordsage would indeed be cool.

[danzibr]

Why yes, Warblade + Swordsage would indeed be cool.
Warblade=Samurai? I see ToB in a whole new light...

[Howler Dagger]

Facototum+Wizard,cbecause of insane versatility. Druid would be a goood choice, though, as would be cleric.

[Anderlith]

Druid/Artificer. Wilderness meets invention! Primitive vs Civilized! The story writes itself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Druid and probably a Beguiler 1/Wizard 4/UM.

[Ardantis]

I've actually played in a 2-man game, and am DMing another one now, and I agree with Dr. Epic- the rogue/rogue team is AWESOME for hijinks.

Also, the rogue / pseudodragon ninja was pretty hilarious, of course they were mostly stealing valuable objects from nobles, rather than straight-up fighting anything. The elven rogue's arch-nemesis was a highly comedic goblin rogue.

Currently, my team is a Duskblade/ Wildshape Ranger (MoMF). The Duskblade can kill things (a lot of things, actually) with some arcane flexibility, and the Ranger is a "situationmonkey" who can grapple the wizard, sneak through the city undetected, or actually notice the sneaking enemies with his Wildshape forms.

We also have a noncombatant DMPC investigator Bard, but I'm not counting him.

The only thing I have to say is that, from my experience, I imagine 2-man teams EITHER encounter way less combat, or they actively avoid it (which is a totally different type of game).

[Silus]

Hmm...A pair of Rogue/Dervish characters with ranks in Perform: Dance (Ballet) and a whole mess of teamwork and/or flanking feats.

Probably wouldn't last too long but it would be pretty cool.

[Ardantis]

Silus~

I second your idea, but remember- have their campaign take place in an ACTUALY BALLET. It would be awesome.

[Silus]

Silus~

I second your idea, but remember- have their campaign take place in an ACTUALY BALLET. It would be awesome.

I was thinking of repurposing the Princess Tutu plot for D&D (Wereravens and Crow/Raven swarms? Yes please). Bonus points for playing ballet music during the fights.

Somehow convince the DM to let both players go at the same time so they can do Dervish Dance Tumble Full Attacks (or however that's supposed to go) around the target while maintaining flanking bonuses =3

[Ardantis]

YES. Just yes.

[Godskook]

Druid 18/Swordsage 2

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer X/Daggerspell Mage Y

It has basically everything you'd ever need, short of crafting. A good skill monkey, good divine caster, good arcane caster, and good beat-sticks. Since Druids, Rogues and Wizards are all recruits to the Daggerspells, this is also a really thematic group, despite the Druid of the pair never actually taking levels in the prestige class.

[Alienist]

Well, I think that it is important to take the target audience into account.

You say it is for your son, but you don't say how old he is.

Reading between the lines, the one character is for your (young(ish)) son, and the other is a DM pc.

If that is the case, then I strongly suggest going for a simple build for the character for your son.

Then whatever the DM pc is must be a true supporting character. Eg if you decide on cleric, then it must be a cleric that focuses on buffing your sons character (for instance).

I would go for barbarian for your son, so he can run up and smash things in the face, and the supporting character as a healbot. Possibly theurge but if so start out with the clerical side before switching to arcane.

Also, consider having an animal companion, but one who will give hints to the party, e.g. If they are completely outclassed it turns into a cowardly lion and runs away. New players do not have any idea of the CR of various monsters.

[dgnslyr]

Hmm...A pair of Rogue/Dervish characters with ranks in Perform: Dance (Ballet) and a whole mess of teamwork and/or flanking feats.

Probably wouldn't last too long but it would be pretty cool.

Maybe a pair of DFI-bards? Give them a dance of fire and ice, and see who can withstand their dancing talent! Plus, bard spells are nothing to scoff at, and making one a bardsader would give the team much-needed beef.

Hrm, a game of all bards sounds really fun, actually.

[FMArthur]

Yeah I'm liking these ideas you guys have for teams that don't try to cover all bases but instead play the game in a way completely different from a regular group. Sounds way fun.

[Silus]

Maybe a pair of DFI-bards? Give them a dance of fire and ice, and see who can withstand their dancing talent! Plus, bard spells are nothing to scoff at, and making one a bardsader would give the team much-needed beef.

Hrm, a game of all bards sounds really fun, actually.

Well I'd opt just for a pair of Dervish Dancer Bards from Pathfinder.

But a whole Bard party in pathfinder would be pretty fun, what with the archetypes allowing for a bit more diversity to the same class (along with the Masterpieces in Ultimate Magic).

'Nother idea (for Pathfinder) would be a Tower Shield archetype Fighter with a Gunslinger or the Musketeer archetype Cavalier. Fighter provides mobile cover for the Gunslinger or Musketeer and attacks anything that gets too close (assuming you can get the two to occupy the same space. Squeezing rules maybe?) and the gunner picks off targets before they can get to the Fighter.

Would work wonders IMO in the tight 5-foot-wide hallways of dungeons.

[dextercorvia]

How about Wizard and Wizard, better known as Team Rope Trick.

[danzibr]

Well, I think that it is important to take the target audience into account.

You say it is for your son, but you don't say how old he is.

Reading between the lines, the one character is for your (young(ish)) son, and the other is a DM pc.

If that is the case, then I strongly suggest going for a simple build for the character for your son.

Then whatever the DM pc is must be a true supporting character. Eg if you decide on cleric, then it must be a cleric that focuses on buffing your sons character (for instance).

I would go for barbarian for your son, so he can run up and smash things in the face, and the supporting character as a healbot. Possibly theurge but if so start out with the clerical side before switching to arcane.

Also, consider having an animal companion, but one who will give hints to the party, e.g. If they are completely outclassed it turns into a cowardly lion and runs away. New players do not have any idea of the CR of various monsters.
Ohhhhhh..... lol. This isn't the case at all. My son is 11 months old, probably not playing D&D for a while. In fact, I don't know if I'll run/be in a campaign with two people. It's just something I was thinking of.

The raccoon thing was an animal noise app on our iPad.

[legomaster00156]

I vote for a Batman Wizard and a Robin Monk. Sure, Robin won't actually be doing anything meaningful compared to good ol' Batman, but then, he never did.

[Anderlith]

IIRC there is a race who are all born as linked twins, that allows you to control two characters. Just make up two of them & make a party of Fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue

[Silus]

Again for Pathfinder: A Pack Lord Druid and a Broodmaster Summoner. 'Cause everyone needs legions of fuzzy animals at their beck and call.

[FMArthur]

IIRC there is a race who are all born as linked twins, that allows you to control two characters. Just make up two of them & make a party of Fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue

That's just four characters, not a Dvati pair. One Dvati pair is one character with one build, who happens to occupy two separate locations and have separate actions (separate when noncasting).

[Curious]

A pair of Ratling (Bestiary 3) rogues, both two weapon fighting. Since they can occupy the same space, and count as flanking when they do so, they will always be sneak attacking.

[kulosle]

So the most powerful combination is a conjurer and a transmuter. The conjurer can be, should be, a druid. Now it's no longer a two person team and all the summons can help out do anything the two of them normally couldn't do. And the transmuter boosts can fill in for anything else.

[navar100]

Crusader and Warblade

They make for great buddies.

[Alienist]

I apologies for my earlier raccoon induced confusion.

Very well, I see everyone else's combos and I raise you two gestalts.

I'm thinking wizard/warblade and Druid/swordsage. ;-)

Really, this seems to me to be exactly the sort of thing that gestalts were invented for, covering additional bases in a size restricted group.

[Psyren]

Did anyone mention The Wish & The Word (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Bu ild)) yet? I'd never bring these two abominations anywhere near an actual game, but I have to admit it's fun to imagine them in action.

[Seerow]

I'd lean towards Factotum+Cleric. A little less versatility than Factotum + Wizard, but much more durability, which matters much more in a two man group.



Alternatively: Thrallherd+whatever. Being a two man group no longer matters, you have a horde of minions with you.

[Leon]

Cleric and Bard.

The Ultimate in Support with both classes capable of holding their own in most situations and having a big box of tools available to them.

[grarrrg]

CW Samurai and Truenamer [/thread]


Again for Pathfinder: A Pack Lord Druid and a Broodmaster Summoner. 'Cause everyone needs legions of fuzzy animals at their beck and call.

*squee!*

[shortround]

Barbarian with Trap killer and a Charging Paladin. Two good guys who want to do good in two different ways! It's all fun and games until they meet a real caster!

[Socratov]

Psyren, I was jsut about to refer to them... although it woudl have broken the game to such a degree a DM would be reduced to a sobbing pile of sad human...

[Coidzor]

Both characters take Wild Cohort for an extra friend in melee. In fact I would do this on pretty much any character that isn't already a druid or type of summoner if I were ever in a 2-man party.

Hear hear!

Hard to say what my personal matchup would be though. I mean, there's always the Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit team-up or the buddy-cop movie or the yin-yang...

Incarnate + Totemist might be interesting.

But the nigh-necessity of animal meatshields makes at least one character with bardy-tendencies very tempting...

[Draz74]

Yeah, at low levels, I'm not sure anything is better than a Fey Savage Bard with Healing Hymn and Bardic Knack. It's like a Druid with slightly less spellcasting, but more skills and more healing. By Level 7, the animal companion has lost some of its "punch," so I guess you can leave off progressing your excellent Bard features like Bardic Knack at this point (:smallfrown:) in favor of becoming an excellent spellcaster through Lyric Thaumaturge, Virtuoso, Sublime Chord, and possibly Metamagic Song stuff.

So, what to pair this fellow up with ... hmmm. Well, as always, I'm very fond of Shaper / Constructor; hard to go wrong with that. Or if I can stand using Tier 1, I'd probably choose Artificer ... More pondering required.

[Daftendirekt]

A beefy tankish gish character with reach and/or tripping, maybe a spiked chain or a guisarme. And in back sniping guys is a swift hunter.

[Ajadea]

For power, I'd go with Druid and Factotum. Between druid casting and all that Inspiration point goodness, versatility is going to be pretty good, and the animal companion is nothing short of a lifesaver at low levels.

For fun, I'd go with a bard with Requiem and Tomb-Tainted Soul and a dread necromancer, possibly going warlock and eldritch theurge to increase blasty ability. Because this is Thriller Night! Also, the idea of a wisecracking bard and a solemn necromancer seems hilarious.

[Ancient Mage]

Hmmmm, I'd have to go with a Druid and a Wizard. I know that's not very original, but the druid can heal, fight, shapeshift, cast utility and blast magic, has a warrior animal companion, and is extremely versatile. The wizard goes along as an additional demigod, using his spells to ward the two, summon more allies, animate dead allies, blast things into oblivion, and do anything else.

-Ancient Mage

[NiteCyper]

A comedy duo where the funny man is a lesser Mechanatrix (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6992.msg228455#msg228455) and the jabs from the straight man are actually stabs with a shock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157907) weapon, or whips, etc.. Tleilaxu_Ghola's Innovating Party Design: Method and Application (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11336.msg388177#msg388177) can be extrapolated from: similar to Daftendirekt's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=57638)1 suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12517418&postcount=46), one2 efficiently eliminates adversaries with sheer mind-power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUyKiiKCJQ0#t=3m20s) while the other3 masterfully stymies onslaughts with a metal, thornèd vine.
Collaborate in profane (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520.msg13782#msg13782) and/or "exuberate sensual"4 rituals to bolster health. Occupy the same (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20020621a) body (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19863774/Symbiotic_Creature_Template_-_Handbook). Smeargle with Shell Smash, Baton Pass, etc. + Scizor with Bullet Punch, etc. is fun.


1Who has a cool avatar.
2ranged DPR - "Dual Empowered Chaotic Surged Energy Channels (using solicit psicrystal)"
3damage mitigator, although can be considered a cohort.
4The Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Passions) Regional feat of Oerth in Dragon Magazine May 2004 issue #319 (pages 58-59)
5The feat in Lords of Madness (page 126)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bard/Warblade/War Chanter with DFI optimization + Dread Necro (focusing on tons of minions).

Requiem feat allows bardic music to affect allied undead. Dread Necro has a LOT of disposable minions. Now disposable minions have effectively BAB= (bard's HD), +10 to attack and damage, and +10d6 Sonic damage per swing.

Now equip said skeletons with bows. Each skeleton is launching four attacks for 1d8+10+10d6 Sonic damage per attack. With an attack bonus of 20 (BAB) + 10 (from IC) + relevant dex modifiers.

Now then, if the Dread Necro picks up either the Dwarf or the Spell domain through Arcane Devotee, he can use Greater Magic Weapon. Now, combine this with a Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell, and all his skeletons now have a +5 longbow. This gives them another +5 to attack and damage, and bypasses DR/magic.

So, the Tarrasque, for example, has an AC of 35. With GMW, the skeletons can ONLY miss on a natural 1 (since they have a minimum of +35 attack bonus, without bothering about stats). Assume a squad of 20 1hd skeletal archers, each one will be hitting at least once, probably at least twice in fact (only misses on a nat 1 on the first attack, then needs a 5 or better on the second, so a 25% miss chance, then a 50% miss chance on the third shot, then a 75% miss chance on the fourth, assuming no further bonuses are accrued), and while the base damage of the arrow is almost certainly negated by the DR 15/epic, the +10d6 sonic damge is NOT. So, you're looking at 20 archers * 2 shots landing (lowball, but I like conservative estimate) is 40 arrows hitting for 10d6 sonic each, for an average of (35 * 40) 490 damage.

That's ONE squad of 20 archers. At 1hd each, the Dread Necromancer's control cap (assuming a CHA of 20, since that's a horridly lowball figure for a primary CHA caster) of (4+5)*20 = 400 1hd skeletons. So he's got 20 SQUADS. So if each squad is doing an average of 490 damage, then the entire force is dealing nearly 10k damage per round. On average.

Now, actual results may vary, because not every squad will be affected by GMW, however it's fairly easy to see that this team can field an army that will obliterate practically anything they face that they can actually hit.

[INoKnowNames]

Bard/Warblade/War Chanter with DFI optimization + Dread Necro (focusing on tons of minions).

Requiem feat allows bardic music to affect allied undead. Dread Necro has a LOT of disposable minions. Now disposable minions have effectively BAB= (bard's HD), +10 to attack and damage, and +10d6 Sonic damage per swing.

Now equip said skeletons with bows. Each skeleton is launching four attacks for 1d8+10+10d6 Sonic damage per attack. With an attack bonus of 20 (BAB) + 10 (from IC) + relevant dex modifiers.

Now then, if the Dread Necro picks up either the Dwarf or the Spell domain through Arcane Devotee, he can use Greater Magic Weapon. Now, combine this with a Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell, and all his skeletons now have a +5 longbow. This gives them another +5 to attack and damage, and bypasses DR/magic.

So, the Tarrasque, for example, has an AC of 35. With GMW, the skeletons can ONLY miss on a natural 1 (since they have a minimum of +35 attack bonus, without bothering about stats). Assume a squad of 20 1hd skeletal archers, each one will be hitting at least once, probably at least twice in fact (only misses on a nat 1 on the first attack, then needs a 5 or better on the second, so a 25% miss chance, then a 50% miss chance on the third shot, then a 75% miss chance on the fourth, assuming no further bonuses are accrued), and while the base damage of the arrow is almost certainly negated by the DR 15/epic, the +10d6 sonic damge is NOT. So, you're looking at 20 archers * 2 shots landing (lowball, but I like conservative estimate) is 40 arrows hitting for 10d6 sonic each, for an average of (35 * 40) 490 damage.

That's ONE squad of 20 archers. At 1hd each, the Dread Necromancer's control cap (assuming a CHA of 20, since that's a horridly lowball figure for a primary CHA caster) of (4+5)*20 = 400 1hd skeletons. So he's got 20 SQUADS. So if each squad is doing an average of 490 damage, then the entire force is dealing nearly 10k damage per round. On average.

Now, actual results may vary, because not every squad will be affected by GMW, however it's fairly easy to see that this team can field an army that will obliterate practically anything they face that they can actually hit.

Shneeky, how the hell do you do stuff like this all the time? It's so crazy it's awesome!

[Coidzor]

Bard/Warblade/War Chanter with DFI optimization + Dread Necro (focusing on tons of minions).

Requiem feat allows bardic music to affect allied undead. Dread Necro has a LOT of disposable minions. Now disposable minions have effectively BAB= (bard's HD), +10 to attack and damage, and +10d6 Sonic damage per swing.

Now equip said skeletons with bows. Each skeleton is launching four attacks for 1d8+10+10d6 Sonic damage per attack. With an attack bonus of 20 (BAB) + 10 (from IC) + relevant dex modifiers.

Now then, if the Dread Necro picks up either the Dwarf or the Spell domain through Arcane Devotee, he can use Greater Magic Weapon. Now, combine this with a Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell, and all his skeletons now have a +5 longbow. This gives them another +5 to attack and damage, and bypasses DR/magic.

So, the Tarrasque, for example, has an AC of 35. With GMW, the skeletons can ONLY miss on a natural 1 (since they have a minimum of +35 attack bonus, without bothering about stats). Assume a squad of 20 1hd skeletal archers, each one will be hitting at least once, probably at least twice in fact (only misses on a nat 1 on the first attack, then needs a 5 or better on the second, so a 25% miss chance, then a 50% miss chance on the third shot, then a 75% miss chance on the fourth, assuming no further bonuses are accrued), and while the base damage of the arrow is almost certainly negated by the DR 15/epic, the +10d6 sonic damge is NOT. So, you're looking at 20 archers * 2 shots landing (lowball, but I like conservative estimate) is 40 arrows hitting for 10d6 sonic each, for an average of (35 * 40) 490 damage.

That's ONE squad of 20 archers. At 1hd each, the Dread Necromancer's control cap (assuming a CHA of 20, since that's a horridly lowball figure for a primary CHA caster) of (4+5)*20 = 400 1hd skeletons. So he's got 20 SQUADS. So if each squad is doing an average of 490 damage, then the entire force is dealing nearly 10k damage per round. On average.

Now, actual results may vary, because not every squad will be affected by GMW, however it's fairly easy to see that this team can field an army that will obliterate practically anything they face that they can actually hit.

The skeleton's minimum damage without DFI is 16 before DR, and 1 after DR, as the +5 magic weapon and +10 to damage from bardic music cancel out the DR 15, leaving the 1d8 from the bow itself, so that's really an average damage of 4.5 in addition to the 10d6 sonic damage that each arrow is doing. d6 average roll is 3.5, so 3.5*10 = 35. I keep getting 35*40 = 1400, not 490 as well.

4.5*40 + 35*40 = 1580 average damage per squad. That makes it 31600 on average from the minions.

Versus a minimum of 1*40+10*40 = 440 per squad and 440*20 = 8800 for all 20 squads rolling minimum damage.

Of course, that's all assuming that all 400 skeletons have GMW up. If none of them do, then it's only on a roll of a 6 that their weapon damage penetrates the DR of the tarrasque, so a 3/8 chance of doing an average of 2 damage in addition to the sonic, so of the 800 attacks that will hit, 300 of them will do an average of 2 damage in addition to the sonic damage if none of them have GMW.

2*300 = 600 average damage + the (3.5*10*800) 28,000 average damage from the sonic damage. So 28,600 average damage without GMW.

Forgot to calculate to hit chance without the +5 to hit.



So either I've just failed math forever or you seem to be a bit low. :smallconfused:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The skeleton's minimum damage without DFI is 16 before DR, and 1 after DR, as the +5 magic weapon and +10 to damage from bardic music cancel out the DR 15, leaving the 1d8 from the bow itself, so that's really an average damage of 4.5 in addition to the 10d6 sonic damage that each arrow is doing. d6 average roll is 3.5, so 3.5*10 = 35. I keep getting 35*40 = 1400, not 490 as well.

4.5*40 + 35*40 = 1580 average damage per squad. That makes it 31600 on average from the minions.

Versus a minimum of 1*40+10*40 = 440 per squad and 440*20 = 8800 for all 20 squads rolling minimum damage.

Of course, that's all assuming that all 400 skeletons have GMW up. If none of them do, then it's only on a roll of a 6 that their weapon damage penetrates the DR of the tarrasque, so a 3/8 chance of doing an average of 2 damage in addition to the sonic, so of the 800 attacks that will hit, 300 of them will do an average of 2 damage in addition to the sonic damage if none of them have GMW.

2*300 = 600 average damage + the (3.5*10*800) 28,000 average damage from the sonic damage. So 28,600 average damage without GMW.

So either I've just failed math forever or you seem to be a bit low. :smallconfused:

Ahh, it seems as though I rather underestimated the damage output.

In fact, I really underestimated the damage output with respect to accuracy.

Assuming a base Dex of 10 for the monster, before it was made a skeleton.

+2 for Skeleton, and +4 from the DN8 ability gives an additional +3 on the to-hit. If done within a Desecreate + Altar, that's the +5 back, as far as accuracy's sake. In that case, the squad with GMW cannot possibly miss on the first TWO iterative attacks, save on a Natural 1, and only has a 50% chance of missing on the FINAL attack.

If they have access to haste, that's a minimum of three arrows landing per skeleton, with a likelihood of 4.5 on average. That... significantly increases the damage output as well.

My god, what have I done? :smalleek:

[Tyndmyr]

Two wizards, every time...the synergy from them learning each other's spells is quite helpful.

[Amphetryon]

Crusader and Dread Necromancer.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

And here I thought GMW was touch range like its not-so-great cousin. *The more you know*

[INoKnowNames]

Ahh, it seems as though I rather underestimated the damage output.

In fact, I really underestimated the damage output with respect to accuracy.

Assuming a base Dex of 10 for the monster, before it was made a skeleton.

+2 for Skeleton, and +4 from the DN8 ability gives an additional +3 on the to-hit. If done within a Desecreate + Altar, that's the +5 back, as far as accuracy's sake. In that case, the squad with GMW cannot possibly miss on the first TWO iterative attacks, save on a Natural 1, and only has a 50% chance of missing on the FINAL attack.

If they have access to haste, that's a minimum of three arrows landing per skeleton, with a likelihood of 4.5 on average. That... significantly increases the damage output as well.

My god, what have I done? :smalleek:

Shneekey, I'm not sure how to phrase this. But one day, I would like to DM a game. And if I do, I want my villain to be maybe 1/10th as affective as you. I'd say to make them just like you, but I don't think even the Batman Wizard can beat you...

[ericgrau]

There's an old barbarian + druid combo I thought up. The barbarian is best at low level survival while the druid is ok at low levels and has a versatile spell list to make up for not having both an arcane and divine caster. And good utility forms from wild shape. At high levels he dips 1 level of hierophant to share his wild shape with the barbarian and the pair continue into higher levels with similar effectiveness. The barbarian would probably dip 1-3 levels of rogue and get an int 13 for tripping and skill points. That way he could handle trap finding and maybe grab evasion too. Also, he is ninja bear.

[Psyren]

Archivist - Warlock is also great, because the Warlock can make all the obscure scrolls the Archy could possibly want. Hellfire Glaivelock teamed with a Paragnostic Thaumaturgist Archivist would be a really fun combo; like playing the Emperor and Vader.

[Coidzor]

My god, what have I done? :smalleek:

71,100 average damage from about 1800 successful attacks, 12600 minimum damage with average hits, 122400 damage max with average hits. :smalleek:

The only thing that this wouldn't work on would be something with DR 20 or 25 that's not pierced by magic or relatively cheaply acquired material ammo and sonic immunity.

So, I guess that leaves the upper end of Slaadi as things that can face down this force in the open, letting the PCs actually have something to do in a non-passive manner.