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scathach_QME
2006-02-18, 02:00 PM
One of my players is looking for a monk-based prestige class specifically targetted at wizards. Something that will preferably grant things like spell resistance and the like.

Suggestions?

NEO|Phyte
2006-02-18, 02:01 PM
1) Monks already get spell resistance
2) The Mageslayer feat line in Complete Arcane works pretty good for anti-mage dealings

The Glyphstone
2006-02-18, 02:10 PM
Mageslayer feats are always nice...there's also the Occult Slayer PrC - even though it's not a monk class.

Don Beegles
2006-02-18, 05:57 PM
Well yes, but Monks can get it. I'd just stay straight monk, Thgey're already excellent magekillers: Improved Grapple, great saves, SR. What more could you want?

Venatius
2006-02-18, 07:06 PM
Yeah, straight monks can be competent mage-killers, but another one you might wanna look into is the Forsaker, from good ol' Masters of the Wild (I never understood its place in that book). I don't think it required them to have a special trademark weapon like the Occult slayer, so I think it works for monks. Rather well, in fact, since a monk suffers less for lacking magical weaponry/armor. Of course, locating the book can be a bit of a pain.

On a half-related note, I always hated how the Mageslayer lines in 3.5 hamper spell-users. As if magic users would never have any reason to learn how to defeat other magic users. Feh.

The Glyphstone
2006-02-18, 07:32 PM
Well, if you can get your DM to allow Masterwork fists... :)

Darkie
2006-02-18, 07:40 PM
Well yes, but Monks can get it. I'd just stay straight monk, Thgey're already excellent magekillers: Improved Grapple, great saves, SR. What more could you want?
I agree. Monks should never multiclass unless you're only dipping for whatever reason. Their effectiveness is pretty much based entirely on level (they're like pure casters, who should never multiclass unless they only dipped into casting, or can keep their full CL).

Feats all the way...

Valiena
2006-02-18, 09:00 PM
Straight Monk is best. Get an amulet or whatever of antimagic. Wash Rinse repeat.

Rei_Jin
2006-02-18, 09:06 PM
Brokenness is my friend, behold!

Feral Lesser Aasimar Saint Monk3/Paladin3/Forsaker 10, with the Mage slayer line of feats and a vow of poverty.

This is a mage slayer, if I ever saw one.

Leon
2006-02-18, 11:50 PM
Brokenness is my friend, behold!

Feral Lesser Aasimar Saint Monk3/Paladin3/Forsaker 10, with the Mage slayer line of feats and a vow of poverty.

This is a mage slayer, if I ever saw one.


Zounds!

Venatius
2006-02-19, 01:09 AM
Brokenness is my friend, behold!

Feral Lesser Aasimar Saint Monk3/Paladin3/Forsaker 10, with the Mage slayer line of feats and a vow of poverty.

This is a mage slayer, if I ever saw one.


..... *hysterical sobs*

Rei_Jin
2006-02-19, 06:19 AM
Aaww, why the hysterical sobs? It's not the worst one I've done. Maybe later I'll give you a look at some of the others...needless to say that some of them involve the half clay golem template.

Eh, what the heck.

Feral/Half Red Dragon/Troll/Monster of Legend/Half clay golem. (yes, all the templates do stack)

Immune to all targeted spells, immune to nearly all spells anyway, immune to mind effects, immune to fire and acid, immune to slashing and piercing damage, fast healing and regeneration. Only way to kill it is to get it to -10 subdual and wish it dead.

Shame about the huge list of immunities though.

[my players banned me from templates after seeing this bad boy]

JungeonJeff
2006-02-19, 07:58 AM
Aaww, why the hysterical sobs? It's not the worst one I've done. Maybe later I'll give you a look at some of the others...needless to say that some of them involve the half clay golem template.

Eh, what the heck.

Feral/Half Red Dragon/Troll/Monster of Legend/Half clay golem. (yes, all the templates do stack)

Immune to all targeted spells, immune to nearly all spells anyway, immune to mind effects, immune to fire and acid, immune to slashing and piercing damage, fast healing and regeneration. Only way to kill it is to get it to -10 subdual and wish it dead.

Shame about the huge list of immunities though.

[my players banned me from templates after seeing this bad boy]

How did you specify the LA for Monster of Legend? I saw the template in...what MM2? And The only thng I saw was a Challnge Rating increase... :-/

squishycube
2006-02-19, 08:23 AM
Brokenness is my friend, behold!

Feral Lesser Aasimar Saint Monk3/Paladin3/Forsaker 10, with the Mage slayer line of feats and a vow of poverty.

This is a mage slayer, if I ever saw one.


Your brokenness is fun, but even a loophole-finding munchkin as yourself has to stick to the rules at some point. And I'm sorry to say: those rules dissallow VoP Monks. (Not in the BoED, but in the errata. Naturally, in your quest to find the Ultimate Munch, who's toenails you are not worthy to lick, it is very much allowed to ignore any alterations that impose any kind of limitation on your builds.)

On Topic: a properly leveled, properly equiped Monk is the best mage killer in my mind.

Leon
2006-02-19, 09:29 AM
Aaww, why the hysterical sobs? It's not the worst one I've done. Maybe later I'll give you a look at some of the others...needless to say that some of them involve the half clay golem template.

Eh, what the heck.

Feral/Half Red Dragon/Troll/Monster of Legend/Half clay golem. (yes, all the templates do stack)

Immune to all targeted spells, immune to nearly all spells anyway, immune to mind effects, immune to fire and acid, immune to slashing and piercing damage, fast healing and regeneration. Only way to kill it is to get it to -10 subdual and wish it dead.

Shame about the huge list of immunities though.

[my players banned me from templates after seeing this bad boy]

so its a DIY tarresque?

Imrix.
2006-02-19, 11:03 AM
Rei_Jin: You sir, are what I like to label the Master of Stilton Bearded Cheese.

Rei_Jin
2006-02-19, 02:38 PM
Why thank you kind sirs, I appreciate the acclaim you give me.

In regards to the level adjustment of the troll, I don't use it as a character, but as a monster for when my players start to irk me. They see it and run for their lives.

Works every time. It's a CR12 by the rules, or a level 25 character. A group of friends I have priced the Monster of Legend template as +8 to LA.

Oh, and where on earth was a VoP monk disallowed? I have never seen that one before.

[edit]Having just checked the errata for the BoED, there is no mention of the VoP monk being illegal. In fact, the errata is only 2 pages long for that book.

Therefore, "Munchy" as I call him, is still alive and kicking. All bow before Munchy!

Everyman
2006-02-19, 04:34 PM
Feral/Half Red Dragon/Troll/Monster of Legend/Half clay golem. (yes, all the templates do stack)

Uh...nope. How can you be HALF red dragon and HALF clay golem and then anything else? Basic logic dictates that all you have built is a mess.

And no, don't tell me that because the rules don't mention you can't have it built like this, you can have it. Lose the half-dragon and we'll talk.

Nice attempt though.

Rei_Jin
2006-02-19, 04:43 PM
Meh, I'll post how it happens in all it's glory, or it's evil.

A feral troll is raped by a red dragon.

The resulting child is blessed by Tiamat, and becomes a Monster of Legend.

Later in it's life, it is captured by an evil wizard who wants to use it as a slave. To make it more amenable, he adds in a half-clay golem arm.

These templates stack perfectly, as per the RAW.

I mean, if you can have a half dragon halfling, and you can add a half dragon template to a chicken, then this works just as well.

JungeonJeff
2006-02-19, 06:36 PM
Meh, I'll post how it happens in all it's glory, or it's evil.

A feral troll is raped by a red dragon.

The resulting child is blessed by Tiamat, and becomes a Monster of Legend.

Later in it's life, it is captured by an evil wizard who wants to use it as a slave. To make it more amenable, he adds in a half-clay golem arm.

These templates stack perfectly, as per the RAW.

I mean, if you can have a half dragon halfling, and you can add a half dragon template to a chicken, then this works just as well.

I must agree here, I see the Half-Golem Template MUST be an acquired (sp?) Template... I mean, not even a flesh golem... no... dont want to think about that do we...


Genetics and D&D dont mix well i know, but this one could acctually work.

PS. I'm glad to see that the LA on a Monster of Legend was a home-rule, I would hate to have missed it myself :)

felblood
2006-02-19, 08:27 PM
What book does the monster of legend template come from, for I must posess it.

--Or at least borrow it from a friend. Money doesn't grow on trees.

Rei_Jin
2006-02-19, 08:29 PM
Look it up in MM2, if memory serves.

Dr._Weird
2006-02-19, 08:41 PM
Meh, I'll post how it happens in all it's glory, or it's evil.

A feral troll is raped by a red dragon.

The resulting child is blessed by Tiamat, and becomes a Monster of Legend.

Later in it's life, it is captured by an evil wizard who wants to use it as a slave. To make it more amenable, he adds in a half-clay golem arm.

These templates stack perfectly, as per the RAW.

I mean, if you can have a half dragon halfling, and you can add a half dragon template to a chicken, then this works just as well.
*Shudders*.
Make the mental images stop!

Rei_Jin
2006-02-19, 08:54 PM
What? I could reverse it and have the feral troll be the instigator...maybe they're in love.

There's an image for you, a feral troll and a red dragon, in love. Aaaawwww.

What would they do on dates? Imagine the chaos that would ensue!

Darkie
2006-02-20, 02:59 AM
Actually, I'm more curious about the half-dragon chicken.

starwoof
2006-02-20, 03:07 AM
Yeah, were only slightly off topic here.::)

In the Dragon Compendium theres a class called the arconaopath monk. Monks that specialize in mage killing.

Douglas
2006-03-16, 05:08 PM
Brokenness is my friend, behold!

Feral Lesser Aasimar Saint Monk3/Paladin3/Forsaker 10, with the Mage slayer line of feats and a vow of poverty.

This is a mage slayer, if I ever saw one.

The only way this would ever work is if the rest of the party donated enough magic items above and beyond your normal share to keep up your Forsaker destruction quota. You see, the Vow of Poverty requires that you donate your share of party loot to charity instead of destroying it.

WildBill
2006-03-16, 08:58 PM
I played a drow fighter/rogue whose primary job was mage killer awhile back. If I had been able to be evil, I might have taken levels of assassin. Nearly monk like saves for the first few levels, SR from the start, sneak attack, evasion at 2nd level, and the skills from the rogue levels with the +2 INT. The LA sucked but we used the rule for trading XP to reduce it, and having a slightly higher wealth per level more than made up for it.

ReluctantDragon
2006-03-17, 02:40 PM
Waaaaaiiitaminit. Trolls can't be feral!!!!

HAHA!!!!

I think. Saw that rule somewhere, going to look for it now.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-03-18, 04:51 AM
The best mage killer I can think of is a mix of spellthief, wild mage, and occult slayer.

dos-x
2007-06-14, 05:09 PM
mmmmm dragon-chicken


red dragon: its spicy-hot
Blue dragon: its tingly
green dragon: its tangy
black dragon: slightly fishy (like aligator)
white dragon: its minty
^.^

hehehe a hydra-dragon-chicken

but if you cut off its heads... does it run around like a chicken with its heads cut off until they grow back??:smallyuk:

Like a Lion
2007-06-14, 05:22 PM
The best mage killer I can think of is another mage. Or an Initiate of Mystra cleric.

Falrin
2007-06-14, 05:43 PM
Yup, a counterspeller. There are some nice feats around for that kind of stuff.

Get a high CL, Get a high initiative.

Now take improved counter spell feat tree.

Be a sorceror.

Chose anti-mage spells: Spell turning, greater & dispel magic, even Acid arrow, protection from energy, spell resistance.

If your keen on the monk, get a sorc/monk/enlighted fist with the ascetic mage feat.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-06-15, 07:59 AM
The only way this would ever work is if the rest of the party donated enough magic items above and beyond your normal share to keep up your Forsaker destruction quota. You see, the Vow of Poverty requires that you donate your share of party loot to charity instead of destroying it.

Following the same note: wouldn't the forsaker's need to destroy magic items conflict with his vow of poverty? He MUST donate his share of the loot to whatever charity, but he also must destroy expensive magic items that can feed orphanages until the end of days....

Keld Denar
2007-06-15, 10:11 AM
If I recall my lore correctly, there is a red dragon in the Greyhawk campaign setting who is very concerned about his lineage.....to the point he mates with everything that is even remotely considered female.

There is something decidedly disturbing about firebreathing....everything running around. Cows, sheep, chickens, snakes, people, UMBER HULKS!!!!!!!!

lord_khaine
2007-06-15, 10:44 AM
could someone tell me about the "of legend" part, what it this about a template that does not increases the monsters challenge rating?

brian c
2007-06-15, 10:49 AM
Waaaaaiiitaminit. Trolls can't be feral!!!!

HAHA!!!!

I think. Saw that rule somewhere, going to look for it now.

From Savage Species: Feral is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal humanoid or monstrous humanoid.

Trolls are Giants, therefore technically cannot be Feral, since Giant isn't listed under Humanoid(Giant). Personally, I think it should be, since anything with 2 arms, 2 legs, a human-looking face, etc should be humanoid.

TroyXavier
2007-06-15, 10:56 AM
There is a Monk based PrC in Dragon Compendium that targets Spellcasters.

Person_Man
2007-06-15, 01:16 PM
Strait Monk will get you decent Spell Resistance at 13th level.

Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries from the Draconomicon also gives you excellent Spell Resistance, Improved Evasion, and the ability to Wildshape into a Dragon up to huge size.

Whatever he does, I suggest that he pick up a reach weapon and the Mageslayer feat.

I would also say that a mounted Hexblade/Blackguard with a Ring of Evasion is a much better mage slayer, or even a strait Paladin with the right variant rules. Just saying.

SurlySeraph
2007-06-15, 02:24 PM
The best mage killer I can think of is another mage.

It's too true. *sobs*

Well, a drow OR a monk will do pretty well against a mage. A drow monk doesn't work that well because the LA makes it take too long to get the monk spell resistance.

The suggestions about counterspell-based sorcerers also have a lot of merit, like the monk/sorcerer/enlightened fist that someone mentioned. But still, you need a wizard to kill a wizard, unless you do something like UMDing a wand of Greater Dispel Magic.

TheGreatJabu
2007-06-15, 02:48 PM
He's a more-complicated idea! Go for the Green Star Adept from Complete Arcane! Immune to Necromancy and death effects, has good Will and Fortitude saves, doesn't take a "very" hard hit to his/her spellcasting ability (plenty of dispels), and TONS of in-your-face punching action! Not as good as some builds, but definitely more funny to imagine.

"The lumbering green statue seems immune to your Finger of Death and it dispels your Ice Storm. It charges at you and swings a mighty emerald fist. You take 16 damage."

Person_Man
2007-06-15, 03:29 PM
He's a more-complicated idea! Go for the Green Star Adept from Complete Arcane! Immune to Necromancy and death effects, has good Will and Fortitude saves, doesn't take a "very" hard hit to his/her spellcasting ability (plenty of dispels), and TONS of in-your-face punching action! Not as good as some builds, but definitely more funny to imagine.

"The lumbering green statue seems immune to your Finger of Death and it dispels your Ice Storm. It charges at you and swings a mighty emerald fist. You take 16 damage."

Green Star Adepts (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a) are notoriously hard to optimize or play.

You lack full caster progression, so you're not an effective blaster, battlefield controller, etc.

You lack full BAB, so you can't be an effective melee build. You're an arcane build, so you can't use Divine Power to fix this. Tensor's Transformation helps, but only at very high levels.

Your Skills suck.

Your capstone ability kills your Con, which means your hit points will suck. High Con is the first or second most important stat for ANY build. And virtually all arcane casters have a poor Hit Die lead in to the PrC.