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Ralasha
2012-01-13, 06:20 AM
((I am honestly surprised no one has given me any grief over this yet. Is it actually balanced?))
The idea of the sorcerer was originally a sorcerer who's magic is derived from an internal source. As such, using personality (Charisma) alone as the basis for sorcerous magic is... flawed to my mind. I will herein be presenting an alternative to the standardized sorcerer. It will not suffer increased metamagic casting times to such an extent as the standard sorcerer. By this I mean that as it gains levels it's ability to cast metamagic spells will be improved. This will be presented by a class feature called 'metamagic training' which will advance their abilities with certain metamagic feats, or, lacking those feats, grant them.

This version of the sorcerer will have some rather non-standard features. For one thing, it's primary casting score will not be a mental attribute, but rather constitution, as this version of the sorcerer will instead be drawing its magic from 'within'. In a similar manner to the psionic feat, which allows the use of HP in place of Pionic Power Points. This sorcerer can 'overcast'.

The Corporimancer Many Sorcerers rely upon their minds, words motions, and various substances to evoke their magics. A true sorcerer needs not these things. The will of the sorcerer is all that is required, for true magic is made substance, and that substance lies within. From herself a true sorcerer can draw all power. These trinkets you carry are not needed, but all magic also comes with a price. You can have no give without the take. You take your magic from other sources. My magic is mine alone. Let me show you.

HD: d6
Skills
The corporimancer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

{table]Level|BAB|FS|RS|WS|Special|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|0|+2|0|0|Blood Magic|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|+3|0|0|Metamagic Mastery|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|2|+3|+1|+1|Body Fuel|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|+4|+1|+1|Metamagic Mastery|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|+4|+1|+1|Permanent Corporimancy|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|4|+5|+2|+2|Improved Blood Magic|6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|+5|+2|+2||6|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|6|+6|+2|+2|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|6|+6|+3|+3|Improved Body Fuel|6|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-
10|7|+7|+3|+3|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|8|+7|+3|+3|Greater Blood Magic|6|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-
12|9|+8|+4|+4|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|3|1|-|-|-
13|9|+8|+4|+4||6|5|5|5|4|4|2|-|-|-
14|10|+9|+4|+4|Greater Body Fuel|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|1|-|-
15|11|+9|+5|+5|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|-|-
16|12|+10|+5|+5|Blood Magic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|1|-
17|12|+10|+5|+5||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-
18|13|+11|+6|+6||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
19|14|+11|+6|+6|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
20|15|+12|+6|+6|Corporicana|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1[/table]
Alternative Table:{table]Level|BAB|FS|RS|WS|Special|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|0|+2|0|0|Blood Magic|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|+3|0|0|Metamagic Mastery|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|2|+3|+1|+1|Body Fuel|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|+4|+1|+1|Permanent Corporimancy|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|+4|+1|+1|Metamagic Mastery|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|4|+5|+2|+2|Improved Blood Magic|6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|+5|+2|+2|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|6|+6|+2|+2|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|6|+6|+3|+3|Improved Body Fuel|6|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-
10|7|+7|+3|+3||6|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|8|+7|+3|+3|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-
12|9|+8|+4|+4|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|3|1|-|-|-
13|9|+8|+4|+4|Greater Blood Magic|6|5|5|5|4|4|2|-|-|-
14|10|+9|+4|+4|Greater Body Fuel|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|1|-|-
15|11|+9|+5|+5||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|-|-
16|12|+10|+5|+5|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|1|-
17|12|+10|+5|+5|Blood Magic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-
18|13|+11|+6|+6|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
19|14|+11|+6|+6|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
20|15|+12|+6|+6|Corporicana|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1[/table]
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Corporimancer is proficient with light armors and shields. As well as all simple weapons, and one other one handed weapon, or light weapon of the players choosing.
Spellcasting: The Corporimancer casts arcane spells (the type normally available of bards/wizards), as such it draws its spells primarily from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell lists. The spells listed on the above table, are spells known. For spells per day, see Blood Magic. A corporimancer has a 75% spell failure chance in area's of antimagic. Dispell magic and similar counter-spells have an 85% chance of success when used against spells of the same level by or against the Corporimancer, while higher level counter-spells always succeed.
Blood Magic: Blood magic, the primary basis of the corporimancer, and the fuel with which it powers it's spells. As opposed to a standard spell caster, the corporimancer pays a number of hit points equal to the caster-level a spell is being cast at, plus a number of hit points equal to the spell's level plus the spell level modifier of any metamagic feats applied to the spell, with a minimum cost of 1. Thus a 1st level corporimancer casting a 0th level spell as a first level caster must still pay 1 hp to cast the spell, where as a quickened ray of frost would cost the character 3 HP. 1 for the caster level, 1 for the spell level, and 1 for the metamagic cost.
At level 6 this ability improves, as the corporimancer's mastery of it's own internal magic increases. This decreases the cost of spells cast by 1, to a minimum of 1 hp.
At 11th level this ability improves again, decreases the cost of casting spells by an additional 2. For a total of 3, down to a minimum of 1.
At 16th level a Corporimancer has complete master over it's own innate magic, decreasing the cost of casting spells by an additional 3, for a total of six. In addition the corporimancer's minimum spell cast is now reduced to 0.
Metamagic Mastery: The corporimancer may choose any metamagic feat for which the character qualifies but does not yet possess and gain the feat, or which the character already possesses. If the character already possesses the feat, the increase in spell level for this metamagic feat is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 0. This does not however, reduce the blood price (The character must still pay the increased HP cost). This ability effects only spells cast using this class, and any metamagic feats gained through this feature can only be used while casting spells using this class.
This feature may be used on the same feat multiple times, each time reduce the increase in spell level by 1, to a minimum of 0.
Body Fuel: The corporimancer's hidden strength. The ability to destroy ones self, in order to save it. By sacrificing one point constitution, the Corporimancer may heal a number of hit-points equal to its caster level. This loss in constitution is supernatural in nature, and cannot be healed by magic, but may be recovered normally. This loss in constitution does not effect the character's current HP as normal constitution damage would. The corporimancer may only sacrifice one point of constitution per round in this manner. This ability cannot heal the corporimancer above it's new maximum hit points, any excess hit points are lost.
At 9th level this feature improves, and the corporimancer may now keep any excess hit points above it's maximum hit point total as temporary hit points for a number of rounds equal to it's constitution score. These excess hit points are lost before the characters actual hit points.
At 14th level this ability improves again, and the corporimancer now gains hit points equal to it's caster level in this class times its highest level corporimancer spell known.
Permanent Emanation: The Corporimancer gains the effects of any of the following spells permanently, please note that the character must know the spell, and be able to cast it. In exchange, the character permanently sacrifices the HP cost for the spell, along with any modifiers the character may wish to make. The character may choose to save this ability for a higher level spell, if the character or player chooses to do so, the cost will be increased by the number of levels difference between when this ability was gained, and used. This ability is not a valid target for Blood Magic or any of it's higher versions. (List at the bottom.)
Corporicana: The Corporimancer has become a thing alien to this world a beast combined of magic and flesh. It gains the Abberation subtype. a 25% fortification bonus, immunity to poisons and diseases and no longer needs to eat, sleep, drink, or breath. All of it's necessary sustenance can be taken care of each day by drawing from the excess magic expelled when casting spells. It takes on otherworldly, or disturbing characteristics, and it's appearance begins to change greatly due to it's new dual-nature. Being one with magic and the flesh, can be truly disconcerting to those around you. The character gains a -4 penalty to all social interactions with all non-magical creatures and characters, but a +2 bonus with all others, including outsiders and creatures with naturally innate magic.

THE LIST: so far
Bear's Endurance
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Comprehend Languages
Detect Alignment (Specific)
Detect Magic
Detect Scrying
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Eagle's Splendor
Endure Elements
Feather Fall
Fox's Cunning
Haste
Jump
Light
Mage Armor
Merfolk's Blessing (+10 to Swim Checks) (1st level spell)
Monkey's Grip (+10 to Climb Checks)
Owl's Wisdom
Protection from (Alignment)
Resistance
Shield

Sir_Chivalry
2012-01-13, 12:44 PM
((I am honestly surprised no one has given me any grief over this yet. Is it actually balanced?))
The idea of the sorcerer was originally a sorcerer who's magic is derived from an internal source. As such, using personality (Charisma) alone as the basis for sorcerous magic is... flawed to my mind. I will herein be presenting an alternative to the standardized sorcerer. It will not suffer increased metamagic casting times to such an extent as the standard sorcerer. By this I mean that as it gains levels it's ability to cast metamagic spells will be improved. This will be presented by a class feature called 'metamagic training' which will advance their abilities with certain metamagic feats, or, lacking those feats, grant them.

This version of the sorcerer will have some rather non-standard features. For one thing, it's primary casting score will not be a mental attribute, but rather constitution, as this version of the sorcerer will instead be drawing its magic from 'within'. In a similar manner to the psionic feat, which allows the use of HP in place of Pionic Power Points. This sorcerer can 'overcast'.

I like this concept, and we shall see if it unfolds well.


The Corporimancer Many Sorcerers rely upon their minds, words motions, and various substances to evoke their magics. A true sorcerer needs not these things. The will of the sorcerer is all that is required, for true magic is made substance, and that substance lies within. From herself a true sorcerer can draw all power. These trinkets you carry are not needed, but all magic also comes with a price. You can have no give without the take. You take your magic from other sources. My magic is mine alone. Let me show you.

HD: d6
Skills
The corporimancer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

So far, we have an alteration on a tier two class, Which translates to 2 extra hp at 1st and 1 extra each level, and two extra skill points with some alternate skills. Care to explain Survival, Handle Animal and Ride? Other than that the skills bring no problems.


{table]Level|BAB|FS|RS|WS|Special|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|0|+2|0|0|Blood Magic|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|+3|0|0|Metamagic Mastery|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|2|+3|+1|+1|Body Fuel|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|+4|+1|+1|Metamagic Mastery|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|+4|+1|+1|Permanent Corporimancy|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|4|+5|+2|+2|Improved Blood Magic|6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|+5|+2|+2||6|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|6|+6|+2|+2|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|6|+6|+3|+3|Improved Body Fuel|6|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-
10|7|+7|+3|+3|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|8|+7|+3|+3|Greater Blood Magic|6|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-
12|9|+8|+4|+4|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|3|1|-|-|-
13|9|+8|+4|+4||6|5|5|5|4|4|2|-|-|-
14|10|+9|+4|+4|Greater Body Fuel|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|1|-|-
15|11|+9|+5|+5|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|-|-
16|12|+10|+5|+5|Blood Magic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|1|-
17|12|+10|+5|+5||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-
18|13|+11|+6|+6||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
19|14|+11|+6|+6|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
20|15|+12|+6|+6|Corporicana|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1[/table]
Alternative Table:{table]Level|BAB|FS|RS|WS|Special|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|0|+2|0|0|Blood Magic|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|+3|0|0|Metamagic Mastery|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|2|+3|+1|+1|Body Fuel|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|+4|+1|+1|Permanent Corporimancy|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|+4|+1|+1|Metamagic Mastery|6|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|4|+5|+2|+2|Improved Blood Magic|6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|+5|+2|+2|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|6|+6|+2|+2|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|6|+6|+3|+3|Improved Body Fuel|6|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-
10|7|+7|+3|+3||6|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|8|+7|+3|+3|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-
12|9|+8|+4|+4|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|3|1|-|-|-
13|9|+8|+4|+4|Greater Blood Magic|6|5|5|5|4|4|2|-|-|-
14|10|+9|+4|+4|Greater Body Fuel|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|1|-|-
15|11|+9|+5|+5||6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|-|-
16|12|+10|+5|+5|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|1|-
17|12|+10|+5|+5|Blood Magic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-
18|13|+11|+6|+6|Permanent Corporimancy|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
19|14|+11|+6|+6|Metamagic Mastery|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1
20|15|+12|+6|+6|Corporicana|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|1[/table]

If the Knight can have good Will and bad Fort, this can surely have the reverse, but I might suggest good fort and will, and poor BAB.


Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Corporimancer is proficient with light armors and shields. As well as all simple weapons, and one other one handed weapon of the players choosing.

But the corporimancer doesn't gain any exemption for spell failure with light armour? Also, is it one-handed weapons exclusively? What about light?


Spellcasting: The Corporimancer casts arcane spells (the type normally available of bards/wizards), as such it draws its spells primarily from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell lists. The spells listed on the above table, are spells known. For spells per day, see Blood Magic. A corporimancer has a 75% spell failure chance in area's of antimagic, dispell magic and similar counter-spells have an 85% chance of success when used against spells of the same level. Higher level counter-spells always succeed.

Woah. Okay, so 1 out of 4 times in an antimagic field, the corporimancer can still cast? And could you reword the sentences on dispel magic and the like, as I cannot make out what you mean by that, whether this is a weakness that benefits the enemy or some sort of spell resistance for the corporimancer, as there is no subject to the sentences.


Blood Magic: Blood magic, the primary basis of the corporimancer, and the fuel with which it powers it's spells. As opposed to a standard spell caster, the corporimancer pays a number of hit points equal to the caster-level a spell is being cast at, plus a number of hit points equal to the spell's level plus the spell level modifier of any metamagic feats applied to the spell, with a minimum cost of 1. Thus a 1st level corporimancer casting a 0th level spell as a first level caster must still pay 1 hp to cast the spell, where as a quickened ray of frost would cost the character 3 HP. 1 for the caster level, 1 for the spell level, and 1 for the metamagic cost.
At level 6 this ability improves, as the corporimancer's mastery of it's own internal magic increases. This decreases the cost of spells cast by 1, to a minimum of 1 hp.
At 11th level this ability improves again, decreases the cost of casting spells by an additional 2. For a total of 3, down to a minimum of 1.
At 16th level a Corporimancer has complete master over it's own innate magic, decreasing the cost of casting spells by an additional 3, for a total of six. In addition the corporimancer's minimum spell cast is now reduced to 0.

I like this a whole lot. Very good, makes sense.


Metamagic Mastery: The corporimancer may choose any metamagic feat for which the character qualifies but does not yet possess and gain the feat, or which the character already possesses. If the character already possesses the feat, the increase in spell level for this metamagic feat is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 0. This does not however, reduce the blood price (The character must still pay the increased HP cost). This ability effects only spells cast using this class, and any metamagic feats gained through this feature can only be used while casting spells using this class.
This feature may be used on the same feat multiple times, each time reduce the increase in spell level by 1, to a minimum of 0.

I like this too, was expecting it to be crazy, but it's fair and well spaced in the levels.


Body Fuel: The corporimancer's hidden strength. The ability to destroy ones self, in order to save it. By sacrificing one point constitution, the Corporimancer may heal a number of hit-points equal to its caster level. This loss in constitution is supernatural in nature, and cannot be healed by magic, but may be recovered normally. This loss in constitution does not effect the character's current HP as normal constitution damage would. The corporimancer may only sacrifice one point of constitution per round in this manner. This ability cannot heal the corporimancer above it's new maximum hit points, any excess hit points are lost.
At 9th level this feature improves, and the corporimancer may now keep any excess hit points above it's maximum hit point total as temporary hit points for a number of rounds equal to it's constitution score. These excess hit points are lost before the characters actual hit points.
At 14th level this ability improves again, and the corporimancer now gains hit points equal to it's caster level in this class times its highest level corporimancer spell known.

Okay, this could lead to serious healing, but I like it still, and another good feature, though by my reading, you'd still have lower total hit points even if your current hp didn't change. Is this your intention?


Permanent Emanation: The Corporimancer gains the effects of any of the following spells permanently, please note that the character must know the spell, and be able to cast it. In exchange, the character permanently sacrifices the HP cost for the spell, along with any modifiers the character may wish to make. The character may choose to save this ability for a higher level spell, if the character or player chooses to do so, the cost will be increased by the number of levels difference between when this ability was gained, and used. This ability is not a valid target for Blood Magic or any of it's higher versions. (List at the bottom.)

Open to some opt-fu I'm sure, but if this is the major selling point, I still love this class. That's right, this is a class I love.


Corporicana: The Corporimancer has become a thing alien to this world a beast combined of magic and flesh. It gains the Abberation subtype. a 25% fortification bonus, immunity to poisons and diseases and no longer needs to eat, sleep, drink, or breath. All of it's necessary sustenance can be taken care of each day by drawing from the excess magic expelled when casting spells. It takes on otherworldly, or disturbing characteristics, and it's appearance begins to change greatly due to it's new dual-nature. Being one with magic and the flesh, can be truly disconcerting to those around you. The character gains a -4 penalty to all social interactions with all non-magical creatures and characters, but a +2 bonus with all others, including outsiders and creatures with naturally innate magic.

A little underwhelming as a capstone, but the class core is strong and I don't mind if it's merely a transformation at the end.


THE LIST: so far
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Comprehend Languages
Detect Alignment (Specific)
Detect Magic
Detect Scrying
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Endure Elements
Feather Fall
Jump
Light
Mage Armor
Merfolk's Blessing (+10 to Swim Checks) (1st level spell)
Monkey's Grip (+10 to Climb Checks)
Protection from (Alignment)
Resistance
Shield

All good options.

All in all, it works together nicely. 5/5

Ralasha
2012-01-13, 06:45 PM
My first concern is the casting attribute coupled with better hit dice This is offset by their every spell cast costing them HP.
and base attack bonus. Not their weapon, armor or shield proficiencies? The higher Base Attack Bonus is intended to give them a bit more of an edge in combat. Their spells themselves will injure them, they need some way of being combat capable without relying soully on their magic, also see previous quote.
A higher fort and lower will is interesting though, more commentary to come. They are a physical Arcane class, rather than a mental one (i.e.: Int/Cha). So it only made sense to me at least, that they would be more physically capable than a normal arcane caster, and capable of more physical endurance. As well as healthier. Also see previous quote. (All things are tied together.)

Ralasha
2012-02-23, 04:06 AM
I like this concept, and we shall see if it unfolds well.



So far, we have an alteration on a tier two class, Which translates to 2 extra hp at 1st and 1 extra each level, and two extra skill points with some alternate skills. Care to explain Survival, Handle Animal and Ride? Other than that the skills bring no problems.



If the Knight can have good Will and bad Fort, this can surely have the reverse, but I might suggest good fort and will, and poor BAB.Poor BAB, no. Good Will? Why would a class that is entirely 'physical' have a good will save?
How many hands do you hold a Light Weapon with... >.> I'll edit it for clarification.
But the corporimancer doesn't gain any exemption for spell failure with light armour? Also, is it one-handed weapons exclusively? What about light?Nope, no class based exemption. Still Spell.
Woah. Okay, so 1 out of 4 times in an antimagic field, the corporimancer can still cast? And could you reword the sentences on dispel magic and the like, as I cannot make out what you mean by that, whether this is a weakness that benefits the enemy or some sort of spell resistance for the corporimancer, as there is no subject to the sentences.It means that counter-spells have an 85% chance of success.
Okay, this could lead to serious healing, but I like it still, and another good feature, though by my reading, you'd still have lower total hit points even if your current hp didn't change. Is this your intention?You'd still have lower maximum hit points. If that is your meaning, then yes.
Open to some opt-fu I'm sure, but if this is the major selling point, I still love this class. That's right, this is a class I love.Opt-fu?
A little underwhelming as a capstone, but the class core is strong and I don't mind if it's merely a transformation at the end.[quote]So is a monk... or a druid...[quote]All good options.

All in all, it works together nicely. 5/5And... 'V'.

Sir_Chivalry
2012-02-23, 11:49 PM
Poor BAB, no. Good Will? Why would a class that is entirely 'physical' have a good will save?

Because it is a spellcaster who must endure pain to cast and as far as I can tell has no indication it can fight as well as a cleric or rogue.


How many hands do you hold a Light Weapon with... >.> I'll edit it for clarification.Nope, no class based exemption. Still Spell.

One. It isn't a one handed weapon though. By the rules, it means I get a longsword or whip, but not a sap or kusari-gama

Most classes that are designed to have proficiency also have that exemption.


It means that counter-spells have an 85% chance of success.

The opponent's or the corporimancer, that was the question.


You'd still have lower maximum hit points. If that is your meaning, then yes.

Yep


Opt-fu?
A little underwhelming as a capstone, but the class core is strong and I don't mind if it's merely a transformation at the end.So is a monk... or a druid...And... 'V'.

Monk, yes it is underwhelming, that's a serious problem with it.

Druid, no, because it doesn't get a "transformation" class feature (turns into a fey type or plant type or whatnot) as a capstone, and is the single most powerful class in the game.

Ralasha
2012-02-24, 01:51 AM
Because it is a spellcaster who must endure pain to cast and as far as I can tell has no indication it can fight as well as a cleric or rogue.Oh, of course not, lets see, it has no flaming weapon spells... or magic weapon spells... or other melee enhancing spells... all of which is does in fact have access to, along with stone skin, haste, death armor, elemental shield... Keen/Impact... All of the spells necessary to have a good 200k gold weapon, and still make it better. Nope, they would totally suck in a battle.
One. It isn't a one handed weapon though. By the rules, it means I get a longsword or whip, but not a sap or kusari-gama.I have already added 'light weapon' to the choice list.
Most classes that are designed to have proficiency also have that exemption.Not this one, you want to cast in armor, take still spell, or suffer spell failure.
The opponent's or the corporimancer, that was the question.Your answer is yes.
Monk, yes it is underwhelming, that's a serious problem with it.Druids actually do get something very similar... You know that, right?
Druid, no, because it doesn't get a "transformation" class feature (turns into a fey type or plant type or whatnot) as a capstone, and is the single most powerful class in the game.Yes, they do, it's just not a complete transformation, and not a capstone.
*Edit*
Oh, and let us not forget, every round I cast quickened true strike. I roll a 2 at level 1, Does a 22 hit?

Sir_Chivalry
2012-02-24, 07:00 PM
Oh, of course not, lets see, it has no flaming weapon spells... or magic weapon spells... or other melee enhancing spells... all of which is does in fact have access to, along with stone skin, haste, death armor, elemental shield... Keen/Impact... All of the spells necessary to have a good 200k gold weapon, and still make it better. Nope, they would totally suck in a battle.I have already added 'light weapon' to the choice list.Not this one, you want to cast in armor, take still spell, or suffer spell failure.Your answer is yes.Druids actually do get something very similar... You know that, right?Yes, they do, it's just not a complete transformation, and not a capstone.
*Edit*
Oh, and let us not forget, every round I cast quickened true strike. I roll a 2 at level 1, Does a 22 hit?

By that logic, a wizard should have average BAB, so no actual support there.

Yes isn't an answer, stop trying to evade this and explain the ability or better yet rewrite it to actually say what you want it to do.

I'm not talking about the "live forever part", I'm talking about the "turns into a different type". Show me on the druid where they have a class feature which permanently makes them something other than what they started as.

Ralasha
2012-02-25, 05:51 AM
Spellcasting: The Corporimancer casts arcane spells (the type normally available of bards/wizards), as such it draws its spells primarily from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell lists. The spells listed on the above table, are spells known. For spells per day, see Blood Magic. A corporimancer has a 75% spell failure chance in area's of antimagic. Dispell magic and similar counter-spells have an 85% chance of success when used against spells of the same level (by or against the Corporimancer), while higher level counter-spells always succeed.

I'm assuming you are referring to this. And, unless I'm mistaken, it says counter spells used by, or against the Corporimancer have an 85% chance of working when they are spells of the same level as the spell being countered.

As to the BAB, and the saves. No. The Corporimancer has no reason to have a high will save. They're not mental casters, they do not force their will on reality. They do not bend its rules and laws to suit them through force of will.

I will explain my point of view. As an example, I will use Faerun:
The Weave. The source of all magic, or in this case, almost all magic. Spellcasters alter it by forcing it to conform to the image in their mind, using materials, gesticulation and words to give form and focus to the forces they employ. All such forms of magic come from other sources, the weave, or gods, either one.
Blood Magic. The source of internal magic. Magic from within, rather than from without. Magic drawn from ones self, as all living things according to D&D have an innate magical ability, though most will never realize their potential. The Corporimancer draws from this natural well of magic within itself, and pushes it out into the world around them. This is not an act of will, but of fortitude. Pushing ones self into the space occupied by another. They do not meddle with the weave, they instead direct their own energy and mould it into the forms they wish that energy to take.

Think of it as similar to... a Gyrocopter. It takes more effort, but not the same kind. Piloting a helicopter is entirely different, it requires constant attentiveness. Flying a Gyrocopter instead requires endurance, and to a lesser extent, attention to your controls.

The Base Attack Bonus is a stop gap measure. This casting class sacrifices HP to cast spells. They can also sacrifice Con to heal, but this lowers their maximum HP (the con must be healed naturally), and their maximum spell level (Because they are a constitution based caster). So, in a nice, long battle, you are gradually killing yourself (Which is as intended, to a point). What kind of spell caster is going to do this... constantly?

But lets face it, In this scenario, I'm no warrior. I'm more fragile than a fighter of any kind, even the monk. I wound myself with my spell-casting, something other spell casters don't worry about. I can heal myself, to a limited extent, but even that costs me because it lowers my maximum HP, and my maximum castable spell level.

If I don't learn the basics of combat, I'm a dead woman. It's just a matter of time before I push just a little too far, and someone squishes me. If I do learn the basics of combat (at least) then I have an alternative. I don't have to worry about constantly missing (Unless I roll a 20, or at least, not as much.), and I don't have to cut myself all the time.

I'll remove the good BAB, and give good will. In exchange, I'm removing all of the proficiencies aside from simple weapons. Because honestly, someone with no training (Which is what poor BAB represents) isn't going to know how to use these things. If that's what you want.

*Edit* Oh, also, I can show you something from Wizards, that gives a Sorcerer an Average BAB. They describe it as 'because the sorcerer is intended as a battle caster'.

*Edit* Actually, the live forever part is a transformation. As I said, just not a complete one. Congratulations to the druid, they now live as long as a fey. Oh, I forgot to mention, they also have some of the abilities of dryads, resistance to the abilities of the fey (like other fey), etc. No, they don't actually BECOME fey, but I fail to see where the issue with this is.

Sir_Chivalry
2012-02-25, 10:44 PM
I'm assuming you are referring to this. And, unless I'm mistaken, it says counter spells used by, or against the Corporimancer have an 85% chance of working when they are spells of the same level as the spell being countered.

As to the BAB, and the saves. No. The Corporimancer has no reason to have a high will save. They're not mental casters, they do not force their will on reality. They do not bend its rules and laws to suit them through force of will.

I will explain my point of view. As an example, I will use Faerun:
The Weave. The source of all magic, or in this case, almost all magic. Spellcasters alter it by forcing it to conform to the image in their mind, using materials, gesticulation and words to give form and focus to the forces they employ. All such forms of magic come from other sources, the weave, or gods, either one.
Blood Magic. The source of internal magic. Magic from within, rather than from without. Magic drawn from ones self, as all living things according to D&D have an innate magical ability, though most will never realize their potential. The Corporimancer draws from this natural well of magic within itself, and pushes it out into the world around them. This is not an act of will, but of fortitude. Pushing ones self into the space occupied by another. They do not meddle with the weave, they instead direct their own energy and mould it into the forms they wish that energy to take.

Think of it as similar to... a Gyrocopter. It takes more effort, but not the same kind. Piloting a helicopter is entirely different, it requires constant attentiveness. Flying a Gyrocopter instead requires endurance, and to a lesser extent, attention to your controls.

The Base Attack Bonus is a stop gap measure. This casting class sacrifices HP to cast spells. They can also sacrifice Con to heal, but this lowers their maximum HP (the con must be healed naturally), and their maximum spell level (Because they are a constitution based caster). So, in a nice, long battle, you are gradually killing yourself (Which is as intended, to a point). What kind of spell caster is going to do this... constantly?

But lets face it, In this scenario, I'm no warrior. I'm more fragile than a fighter of any kind, even the monk. I wound myself with my spell-casting, something other spell casters don't worry about. I can heal myself, to a limited extent, but even that costs me because it lowers my maximum HP, and my maximum castable spell level.

If I don't learn the basics of combat, I'm a dead woman. It's just a matter of time before I push just a little too far, and someone squishes me. If I do learn the basics of combat (at least) then I have an alternative. I don't have to worry about constantly missing (Unless I roll a 20, or at least, not as much.), and I don't have to cut myself all the time.

I'll remove the good BAB, and give good will. In exchange, I'm removing all of the proficiencies aside from simple weapons. Because honestly, someone with no training (Which is what poor BAB represents) isn't going to know how to use these things. If that's what you want.

*Edit* Oh, also, I can show you something from Wizards, that gives a Sorcerer an Average BAB. They describe it as 'because the sorcerer is intended as a battle caster'.

*Edit* Actually, the live forever part is a transformation. As I said, just not a complete one. Congratulations to the druid, they now live as long as a fey. Oh, I forgot to mention, they also have some of the abilities of dryads, resistance to the abilities of the fey (like other fey), etc. No, they don't actually BECOME fey, but I fail to see where the issue with this is.

I agree with your changes, including the edit to explain the counterspell.

As for the druid, timeless body actually doesn't work like that, instead simply meaning you don't appear to age or take any penalties, but a human druid still only lives 110 years tops.

That being said, let's for a moment pull back and focus on the important stuff, in that I think the transformation effect is good, especially since you gave it some other nice stuff, but is a tad underwhelming as a capstone. It is, however, still a very good class, and an underwhelming capstone won't kill it.