Ulfric Stormcloak vs Thanh

[t209]

Who do you think is the best rebel leader to face death in dignity?
Ulfric Stormcloak (Jarl of Windhelm, Leader of Stormcloaks)
He started the resistance to free his people, the Nord, from the dying empire who are becoming puppets to the Nazi Elves. When General Tulius came to arrest him, he never ran away from the imperials and dies fighting. He even went to Sovngarde (Skyrim Valhalla) for his bravery in Battle. I killed Ulfric as an imperial Orc and face no regret until I read this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html). After reading it, I realized that I destroyed the only hope for Nord's independence. He may be a racist but he has reason to be racist rebel leader.
Thanh (Sapphire Guard Paladin, Leader of the Azure City Resistance)
His death was the inspiration for my thread. He goad Redcloak into fighting him (even it failed) and gave his life so that Niuh can escape. He is the most reasonable leader and probably will brought back from the death if his remains is found.

[Drascin]

Well, on one hand, Ulfric is an opportunistic liar and theatre-player, and probably the main reason Skyrim has absolutely no chance to recover in time. His rebellion and utter political blindness pitted brother against brother for the sake of pride, all for his own gain - nobody else could be the High King except himself.

On the other hand, Thanh is a paladin that behaved like a paladin should.

I believe this is kind of one-sided :smalltongue:.

[t209]

Well, on one hand, Ulfric is an opportunistic liar and theatre-player, and probably the main reason Skyrim has absolutely no chance to recover in time. His rebellion and utter political blindness pitted brother against brother for the sake of pride, all for his own gain - nobody else could be the High King except himself.

On the other hand, Thanh is a paladin that behaved like a paladin should.

I believe this is kind of one-sided :smalltongue:.

But when you finished Stormcloak arc, he says that he will never take the title of High king until the moot say so. He give credit to his men. I used to think Ulfric as evil until I played stormcloak as Nord.

[Tavar]

Having not played the game myself, I can't really comment too much, but isn't one of the reasons Ulfric is rebelling is that the...Elves, Thal-something, are trying to destroy the Human religion?

[t209]

Having not played the game myself, I can't really comment too much, but isn't one of the reasons Ulfric is rebelling is that the...Elves, Thal-something, are trying to destroy the Human religion?

Yes! He also save a city from Savage barbarians.

[Partof1]

The Forsworn are neither savage nor barbarians. The Markarth questline shows that pretty distinctly. He didn't save the city, he captured it from a people whose culture was merely different from his own. They have every right to be hostile.

[t209]

The Forsworn are neither savage nor barbarians. The Markarth questline shows that pretty distinctly. He didn't save the city, he captured it from a people whose culture was merely different from his own. They have every right to be hostile.

Their culture includes bloody sacrifice and they worship Hargraven! (Evil)

[Sanguine]

Their culture includes bloody sacrifice and they worship Hargraven! (Evil)

The only human sacrifice I can remember Forsaken doing is the Briar Hearts, and they don't actually die. As for Hagravens, there is nothing evil about Hagravens. My character was even engaged to one briefly. Sadly it didn't work out.

[t209]

I think we are off the track here! I wanted to talk about
Who face the death with dignity!

[Jayngfet]

Ulfric kind of only did exactly what the Thalmer wanted, in the end.

They really don't care about Talos so much as breaking up the empire and sowing discord to make their real objectives go easier.

Ulfric just broke skyrim so hard that it killed several thousand if it's best warriors and gave the Thalmer enough information to get down to buisness with their real goal, which is much, much worse.

[TheDarkDM]

As an aside, was I the only one who found the note indicating that

Ulfric was an agent of the Thalmor?
Because these threads referencing his "noble defense of Skyrim" keep popping up.

[Sanguine]

As an aside, was I the only one who found the note indicating that

Ulfric was an agent of the Thalmor?
Because these threads referencing his "noble defense of Skyrim" keep popping up.

He wasn't so much an agent as an unwitting pawn. Ulfric didn't work for the Thalmor, but he is a man of great passion and ambition, and it is very easy to nudge such men into causing great upheaval and change. Which in turn causes great chaos before things settle into the new order, the Empire being in a state of chaos serves the Thalmor cause, whatever that is. However they don't want Ulfric to win, as stated in that same note, because when he wins the chaos ends.

However despite all of that, I am a staunch imperial for one very important reason: Ulfric's a ****.

[thubby]

neither side in the skyrim rebellion is "good" by any stretch.
the stormcloaks are bigots and at least impractical (the rebellion really is a bad idea because of the thalmor)
the imperials are, well, an empire. they ban a religion, and seem overly militaristic.

with that out of the way. ulfric has at least 1 thu'um (unrelenting force), and is competent enough in combat to fight 6 or so standard infantry at a time without it.

compared to that, our pali is sort of meh for single combat.

in terms of army strength, pretty sure a functioning nation's army capable of fighting off an empire>ragtag resistance group.

[Talya]

(double post)

[Talya]

All true sons and daughters of Skyrim would fight for her freedom!

There is nothing to redeem the Imperials, who must be kicked out. Ulfric is passionate, but not the most ambitious...he's a reluctant king and general, fighting out a sense of duty. He hates the war, and he hates that it had to come to Nord against Nord, but ultimately, that's what had to be done.

There can be no compromise. The threat of the Thallmor is not enough to justify remaining united under an oppressive regime. Ulfric Stormcloak is as close a thing to a hero as exists in that game.

Down with the Imperials!

[t209]

All true sons and daughters of Skyrim would fight for her freedom!

There is nothing to redeem the Imperials, who must be kicked out. Ulfric is passionate, but not the most ambitious...he's a reluctant king and general, fighting out a sense of duty. He hates the war, and he hates that it had to come to Nord against Nord, but ultimately, that's what had to be done.

There can be no compromise. The threat of the Thallmor is not enough to justify remaining united under an oppressive regime. Ulfric Stormcloak is as close a thing to a hero as exists in that game.

Down with the Imperials!

Now, a token pro-stormcloak in the thread full of pro-imperials or neutral!

[Jzadek]

All true sons and daughters of Skyrim would fight for her freedom!


Ah yes, how does the song go? "Skyrim, Skyrim, uber alles!"




There is nothing to redeem the Imperials, who must be kicked out. Ulfric is passionate, but not the most ambitious...he's a reluctant king and general, fighting out a sense of duty. He hates the war, and he hates that it had to come to Nord against Nord, but ultimately, that's what had to be done.


We all know he hates that it was Nord against Nord. We dislike him because he has no problems with Nord against Dunmer refugee.



There can be no compromise. The threat of the Thallmor is not enough to justify remaining united under an oppressive regime. Ulfric Stormcloak is as close a thing to a hero as exists in that game.

Down with the Imperials!

The imperials are a little authoritarian, but hardly oppressive. Other than banning the worship of a god (which is wrong) because otherwise the genocidal high elves will continue to try to unmake creation, they seem to do nothing more than any other time-period appropriate government would do, and are pretty lax considering real-world civilisations of similar structure. Certainly, given Ulfric's track record, I can see life being a lot worse under him.
The Stormcloaks have the romance, but when all's said and done are racist, nationalist, far-right extremists. There was a name for that developed in Italy, in the early 20th century.

[Talya]

The imperials are a little authoritarian, but hardly oppressive. Other than banning the worship of a god (which is wrong) because otherwise the genocidal high elves will continue to try to unmake creation, they seem to do nothing more than any other time-period appropriate government would do, and are pretty lax considering real-world civilisations of similar structure. Certainly, given Ulfric's track record, I can see life being a lot worse under him.

Other than that?

How about randomly executing (or in my case, attempting to execute) people without any record of a crime, or their names, or even a reason other than "Huh. They're here. Send her to the block!"

Alduin saved my nord skin.

Anyway, they've got reason to be racist. They're the only race in the game with appealling graphics. the others look scary bad. Not scary-bad as in "Oooh, it's a horrifying monster" but scary-bad as in "Ooooh-this is horrifyingly bad artwork."

Poor artwork = Evil. It's ironclad.

[Jzadek]

Other than that?

How about randomly executing (or in my case, attempting to execute) people without any record of a crime, or their names, or even a reason other than "Huh. They're here. Send her to the block!"

Alduin saved my nord skin.

Anyway, they've got reason to be racist. They're the only race in the game with appealling graphics. the others look scary bad. Not scary-bad as in "Oooh, it's a horrifying monster" but scary-bad as in "Ooooh-this is horrifyingly bad artwork."

Poor artwork = Evil. It's ironclad.

I don't know, I liked most of them. Except for the Altmer. I always though that High Elves should be beautiful, but no. They were some seriously fugly specimens.

Though that might be because of the horrors of Oblivion's graphics.

[t209]

otherwise the genocidal high elves will continue to try to unmake creation
Oh really?
By banning talos, the empire is actually destroying a god who is holding a reality together.

[Jayngfet]

Oh really?
By banning talos, the empire is actually destroying a god who is holding a reality together.

It's a lose/lose situation really. All they can really do is try to hold it together and hope something happens.

But yeah, I sided with the stormcloaks because the imperials tried to execute me. Screw those guys.

[Coidzor]

Talya's point:
Anyway, they've got reason to be racist. They're the only race in the game with appealling graphics. the others look scary bad. Not scary-bad as in "Oooh, it's a horrifying monster" but scary-bad as in "Ooooh-this is horrifyingly bad artwork."

Poor artwork = Evil. It's ironclad.

Eh? There were Cyrodiilans that basically looked like shorter Nords and Nords that looked like taller Cyrodiilans? :smallconfused:

Granted, the Mer were all pretty ugly, which is refreshing, really, to not have pretty elves but have the silly gits still think they're pretty and better.

And have a pretty horrible track record, considering they tried and failed to invent genocide first, are actively trying to unmake reality, were horrible slave-owning demon-cultists that sacrificed and raped humans to their hearts content when they ruled the continent, and when they were afforded equal rights and fair treatment under the Empire after being conquered they just spent their time building up weapons stores so that they could strike during a moment of weakness by the Empire and begin their campaign to unmake reality in a misguided and ignorant attempt at godhood when they saw how well going after godhood worked out for their cousins...

Wow, I can't wait for a game devoted to killing them now.

And, really, if the world map were open in Skyrim... how many of even the Imperial supporters would have stayed there rather than going down to genocide the Thalmor?

Very few. They probably were elves. I can't quite recall, but I think it's really only the Altmer and maybe the Bosmer that are on board with the whole thing, the Dunmer and Orsimer seem to like existing and the Falmer are crazy examples of Mer's Inelvenity to Mer.

I favor Thanh, because, like O-Chul, he manages to be a reasonably likeable Paladin, and those are rare enough that they get brownie points, being as the last one that wasn't in OotS was in Quest for Glory in the form of Rakeesh.

[TheDarkDM]

He wasn't so much an agent as an unwitting pawn. Ulfric didn't work for the Thalmor, but he is a man of great passion and ambition, and it is very easy to nudge such men into causing great upheaval and change. Which in turn causes great chaos before things settle into the new order, the Empire being in a state of chaos serves the Thalmor cause, whatever that is. However they don't want Ulfric to win, as stated in that same note, because when he wins the chaos ends.

However despite all of that, I am a staunch imperial for one very important reason: Ulfric's a ****.

From the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric:

Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval

Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran

Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

So yeah, not really seeing the unwitting pawn angle.

[Top cat]

If I'd started playing skyrim right off the bat, I probably would have gone stormcloak. But I remember the third era, when the common people mostly agreed that the empire, slightly corrupt and somewhat alien to them though it was, had been a good thing. No major wars, stability and trade across tamriel. The empire did a fairly good job stopping all the provinces from killing each other.

Plus it seems pretty obvious that
the Thalmor are going to invade the human provinces of tamriel again, and the longer this civil war drags on, the weaker their opposition will be. The empire is the only entity that stands a chance against them, and with the loss of skyrim it would be sorely outclassed, especially since a newly independent skyrim would be unlikely to offer or receive help from the empire it just broke off from. If skyrim goes, the empire goes with it, and you can expect a lot more altmer running around generally being *****.

[Sanguine]

From the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric:

Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval

Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran

Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

So yeah, not really seeing the unwitting pawn angle.

Perhaps you should look at the several places where it calls him uncooperative, or where it flat out states that his goals are contrary to their own.

@Coidzor: I sure know that my character, despite being an imperial, had an intense burning hatred for the Thalmor and would wipe them out given half a chance. Though that wouldn't really be genocide as not all High Elves are Thalmor, the Thalmor are just the ruling body of the Aldmeri Dominion. And yes, only The Summerset Isles and Valenwood are part of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Top Cat, what one must realize though is that the Empire of the Third Era was still ruled over by the Septim Dynasty. I have no solid evidence as to how well this new dynasty is governing the Empire, but I remember hearing rumors of nepotism.

[Top cat]

I doubt it's rosy right now, but the priority is for there to be a strong empire that can oppose the Thalmor IMO. And the current emperor seems to at least be a competent leader. One of the history books ingame made him sound like somewhat of a badass, really (though reads more like something titled "the heroic imperial soldiers of the Great War" than an unbiased historical account).

However I am working through the dark brotherhood questline, and I think I'ma accidentally his whole reign, with his replacement probably being the type of man who uses assassins :/

Oh, and before someone brings up hammerfell, they only managed to fight off the thalmor because they were war exhausted + terrain advantage. Though it does suggest it may have been a mistake to agree to the White Gold Concordat.

[thubby]

i finished that quest and ill say this in spoilers
if his successor has 1/2 the dignity and composure this man did before i gutted him like a fish, the empire should do alright

[Coidzor]

@Coidzor: I sure know that my character, despite being an imperial, had an intense burning hatred for the Thalmor and would wipe them out given half a chance. Though that wouldn't really be genocide as not all High Elves are Thalmor, the Thalmor are just the ruling body of the Aldmeri Dominion. And yes, only The Summerset Isles and Valenwood are part of the Aldmeri Dominion.

Well, the whole religious motives for the Thalmor don't originate exclusively from them from what I got, so I figured the leadership and religious caste of those societies would need to be taken out, and, well, if one takes all that out, one's basically just one step away from getting rid of the rest of it without any leaders left....


Top Cat, what one must realize though is that the Empire of the Third Era was still ruled over by the Septim Dynasty. I have no solid evidence as to how well this new dynasty is governing the Empire, but I remember hearing rumors of nepotism.

The emperor's...1st? 2nd? cousin was a high up in the East Empire company, IIRC from the dark brotherhood quest to assassinate her in order to provoke the emperor to take a personal hand in Skyrim or something?

Re: Topcat: Really, assassins are probably the best bet the Empire has at the moment against the Thalmor leadership, since a shadow war is just the thing that needs to be done to counteract the shadow war the thalmor are currently engaged in.

Dark Brotherhood, generally, as far as I can tell, don't want the world to cease existing either.

[Janus]

Thanh, no doubt. Ulfric requested the Dragonborn to kill him, simply because that he'd go out with a better story. I didn't give him that honor. :smallannoyed:

Granted, I love paladins, and I play for the Imperials, so I'm rather biased.

As for Talos worship, I get the impression that the Empire ignores it as much as they can afford to. They can't turn a blind eye to it in Markarth thanks to Thalmor presence, but in pro-Imperial Whiterun, nobody's stopping the Talos preacher (except for those who kill him for kicks and giggles).
My main character's an Imperial in both race and faction, but he cuts Thalmor down whenever he gets the chance, and I roleplay him as someone who hides Talos worshipers from the Thalmor. Heck, I like to think that his wife Lydia is one of the people he's protecting.

I also don't buy the whole "Ulfric defeated the king in honorable combat" bull. Call me an Imperial sheep, but I think the fact that he had to run right after shouting the guy's face off says quite a bit about the legality of that duel.

[Coidzor]

I also don't buy the whole "Ulfric defeated the king in honorable combat" bull. Call me an Imperial sheep, but I think the fact that he had to run right after shouting the guy's face off says quite a bit about the legality of that duel.

:smallconfused: Even if one's killing the king "legally" one is still a regicide and all of his posse are going to try to kill you unless you've already convinced them to accept you as his replacement. That's just the way things work.

[Sanguine]

Thanh, no doubt. Ulfric requested the Dragonborn to kill him, simply because that he'd go out with a better story.

You say this like it's a bad thing, which makes me question whether you truly understand the Nord way of life.


I also don't buy the whole "Ulfric defeated the king in honorable combat" bull. Call me an Imperial sheep, but I think the fact that he had to run right after shouting the guy's face off says quite a bit about the legality of that duel.

Even Jarl Elisif, the High King's widow, agrees that he followed all of the proper procedures, and that her husband could have declined the duel. Admittedly declining would have forced the Jarls to call a moot to decide whether or not he should remain High King.

You know, I'm defending Ulfric surprisingly often considering I hate his guts.

[Janus]

:smallconfused: Even if one's killing the king "legally" one is still a regicide and all of his posse are going to try to kill you unless you've already convinced them to accept you as his replacement. That's just the way things work.
Eh, point taken.
On a somewhat related note, it was during the gatekeeper's execution that I discovered that Imperial troops don't like it when you execute their prisoners for them. Even if you did an awesome job of it.
"Okay, guys, you caught me. But come on, I shot him in the head when the axe was in frickin' mid-swing! Now was that awesome, or was that awesome?" :smallbiggrin:


You say this like it's a bad thing, which makes me question whether you truly understand the Nord way of life.
I play an Imperial. :smallamused:
Though I'm not a fan of arrogantly prideful people, so I didn't want to feed his ego. Kind of a "you're not even worth killing myself" sort of thing.
Of course, that may just be a jerk move on my part. :smalltongue:

[Sanguine]

I play an Imperial. :smallamused:

Bah, Imperials are just Nords who have forgotten what it means to be a Nord.

[thubby]

Bah, Imperials are just Nords who have forgotten what it means to be a Nord.

hey, now, there are non-nords on both sides here.

I'll have you know it was an argonian who killed the emperor :P

[Coidzor]

^: That's just wrong, since the bloody things are supposed to be cold blooded and yet they're living in tundra alongside a race of people with supernatural resistance to the cold. :smallyuk:



I view that as more akin to Elan and Tarquin's whole narrative awareness than anything else, really.

Much more poetic to have the leader of the side killed by the mythic hero than some ordinary execution.

[Tiki Snakes]

It amuses me slightly that people keep bringing up that the Thalmor have used him in the past. Because, you know, aside from the fact that it's part of Skyrim's almost pathalogical need to avoid anything other than muddy grayscale and psychopaths, it's not even that meaningful.

Because the other side is openly working with the Thalmor, as well as allowing them to wander around above the law, basically doing whatever they want.

I also don't buy the idea that the Empire is best suited to resist the Thalmor. They were, maybe, up until the point where they basically surrendered entirely after winning a decisive battle. The fact that Hammerfell on it's own was able to then fight the Thalmor to a standstill points out what a terrible decision this was. It's also why the 'Preserve the Empire' argument doesn't really hold any water, given how the empire has already fractured because of that decision.

[Sanguine]

hey, now, there are non-nords on both sides here.

I'll have you know it was an argonian who killed the emperor :P

I meant the race. Which are in fact just Nords who have forgotten what it means to be Nords. All humans on Tamriel, aside from Redgaurds, can trace their lineage back to Ysgramor's expedition from Atmora. Now while Bretons also have Meric ancestry, Imperials do not, and thus the only difference between Nords and Imperials is cultural.

[Coidzor]

Something happened to their blood, as even Nords born outside of Skyrim have supernatural resistance to cold and Cyrodiilans do not.

[Sanguine]

Something happened to their blood, as even Nords born outside of Skyrim have supernatural resistance to cold and Cyrodiilans do not.

You are assuming the resistance to cold is genetic rather than cultural, not that I believe it is cultural. If it is supernatural as you say, also something I don't believe, I would say an equally valid origin for it is some sort of mystical right of passage ceremony. When the Cyrodiilans found they no longer needed the supernatural resistance to cold it became obsolete. Whereas Nords born outside Skyrim with the resistance would come from families that chose to keep to the customs of their people.

Now, to reiterate, I don't actually believe this is the case. However, I believe it is a plausible explanation.

Another explanation is that over the course of several generation the Cyrodiilans adapted to their climate whereas Nords born outside Skyrim are either only a few generations removed from Skyrim, or, like the Nords of Solstheim, living in a similar environment. I don't like this theory because four hundred years, give or take, thirty if we take into account the lack of an Imperial race in Daggerfall, seems a very small time for such a change to occur in.

Or, you know, it could just be game mechanics.

[pffh]

I meant the race. Which are in fact just Nords who have forgotten what it means to be Nords. All humans on Tamriel, aside from Redgaurds, can trace their lineage back to Ysgramor's expedition from Atmora. Now while Bretons also have Meric ancestry, Imperials do not, and thus the only difference between Nords and Imperials is cultural.

Ahem the Nedes (ancestors of the Imperials and the Bretons) would like a word with you. In fact there were Bretons living in Skyrim long before the Nords came there.

[Sanguine]

Ahem the Nedes (ancestors of the Imperials and the Bretons) would like a word with you).

Ok, just looked them up. According to their UESP page, all but one source claim they are just Nords with a different culture, if that, which is what I've been arguing about the Cyrodiilans. I was wrong about Ysgramor though, plus the 400 year thing, and it is highly possible the Nedes migrated from Atmora before Ysgramor. In regards to that one source that claims they are not Atmorans. The page also states that Nordic belief, and possibly that of the Moth Priests, holds that Nords originated in Tamriel not Atmora, specifically the Throat of the World. If that theory is true, the non-Atmoran Nedes would simply be Nords that didn't migrate to Atmora in what I suppose would be the Merethic Era. Seems a good place to put the migration considering that's the area where history is a total mess and the most reliable account are the various mythologies. Anyway, that once again makes Cyrodillans merely Nords with a different culture.

[t209]

hey, now, there are non-nords on both sides here.

I'll have you know it was an argonian who killed the emperor :P

I also found a guy from Cyrodil who believes that Skyrim should stay independent after seeing pro imperial darkelf.
P.S- Stormcloak are made up of Viking warriors while Azurites are a bunch of milk drinkers who didn't even know about cell separation.