Dwarf and the Half-Orc [3.PF]

[Tanuki Tales]

Though the title is 3.Pathfinder, I want to make it frank that I'm talking about 3.Pathfinder AND 3.5.

Now, I was always curious how all the base races measured up together (including all of them from splats, adventure modules, Monster Manuals and Dragon Magazine issues) and how they were all expected to be balanced.

I see how the Dwarf is said to be chocked full of goodies, that the Warforged is just great and that you can almost never beat a Human when it comes to nearly any build.

And then on the other hand, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are Just. Plain. Terrible.

So, how do all the base races measures up? How are they even remotely balanced to one another? Which ones are the true cream of the crop for LA+0 and which ones make the characters/npcs cry themselves to sleep every night, cursing their magicky genetics?

[Saph]

There's a big difference between 3.5 and PF here.

PF went a long way towards balancing out the races. While 3.5 half-orcs are pretty bad, PF half-orcs are actually quite good. No penalties, a free +2 into any ability score you like, and darkvision.

Whether humans are "unbeatable" depends heavily on how easy it is to get extra feats in your campaign. The easier they are to pick up, the weaker humans become (though they never become actually bad).

[Tanuki Tales]

There's a big difference between 3.5 and PF here.

PF went a long way towards balancing out the races. While 3.5 half-orcs are pretty bad, PF half-orcs are actually quite good. No penalties, a free +2 into any ability score you like, and darkvision.

I know, that's why I said I was talking about both. I was just playing up 3.5's Half-Orcs and Half-Elves because more people on the forum seem to be familiar with 3.5 than Pathfinder and everyone knows that Half-Orcs and Half-Elves were terrible. I was just trying to craft a familiar starting point for folks.

[NeoSeraphi]

Best LA 0:
Human- Free feats are always useful
Strongheart Halfling (FRCS)- As above, but with actual racial traits instead of just +1 skill point per level. Also Small sized.
Kobolds (RotD)- Spend one feat, and you get to be old without aging penalties and you get access to Epic feats pre-epic. Along with the Draconic rites stuff and the fact that they come pre-dragonblooded, these little guys make fantastic sorcerers.
Silverbrow Humans (RotD)- Like humans, but with the Dragonblood subtype (which is very useful for some builds) and feather fall as a spell-like ability a few times per day instead of 1 extra skill point per level.
Azurin (MoI)- Again, another free feat, plus you trade your extra skill points for an extra point of essentia, which is a must-have for incarnum users.
Skarn (MoI)- I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is the only LA 0 race that gets a bonus to Strength and a penalty to a physical ability score instead of a mental one. The monk substitution levels are cool and they get a free natural attack as well (and it's a very rarely seen one, so it stacks with most totemist naturals)
Lesser Aasimar (PGtF)- Bonuses to Wisdom and Charisma, a few resistances, and daylight once per day. They make fantastic paladins and pretty good clerics.
Whisper Gnome (RoS)- 30 ft move speed as a small creature, bonuses to Dex and Con, and silence once per day, plus a racial and Size bonus to Hide checks. These guys make good rogues slightly-less pathetic rogues.
Elf (Way too Many)- I don't like them personally, but they get martial weapon proficiencies with some decent ranged weapons, as well as a Dexterity bonus, which gives players who want to build an archer much more flexibility, seeing as they don't have to rely on their base class to give them a longbow. (Want to be a swordsage archer? Sure! A wizard or cleric archer? Why not? A dragonfire adept archer? You...can do that too, I suppose :smallconfused:)
Water Orc (UA)- They don't get any special racial abilities, and they have a -2 penalty to three stats. But that +4 Strength makes orcs killer barbarians, literally. In a build that is as SAD as you can make it, a +4 will really help. The +2 bonus to Constitution helps offset the harsh penalties too.
Shifters (ECS)- You get to play a lycanthrope. Free access to the warshaper prestige class. Lots of customization, and good racial feats. It may not be the most optimal race, but it's definitely my favorite.


The Bad
Half-Elf- Absolutely no reason to play one of these guys. +2 to two skill checks is just...terrible. They didn't even give them any good support in Races of Destiny, which was a pretty disappointing book. A single racial prestige class? Just play an elf and flavor it as a half-human if you like. (Though the bard substitution levels were surprisingly decent)
Half-Orc- Again, no reason to take this creature over its greater parent. There are some interesting racial substitution levels for druids, barbarians, and paladins, but really, the only reason to take this race over orc is if you're playing a cleric or a shapeshifter variant druid (need some Strength, don't want a Wisdom penalty), but in both situations, you should play a Skarn (see above) instead. Dex is a heavy dump stat for clerics and the natural attack is exploitative for a druid.

[ericgrau]

So, how do all the base races measures up? How are they even remotely balanced to one another? Which ones are the true cream of the crop for LA+0 and which ones make the characters/npcs cry themselves to sleep every night, cursing their magicky genetics?
Balanced to one another? No. Remotely balanced to one another? Yes. Don't overestimate a couple minor bonuses. And in 3.5 core a +2 to strength is better than any human melee feat you can get (and way better than your 3rd or 4th or later feat which is what you're really losing). So that's the nice niche half-orcs had until better feats made their one advantage disappear. Ya 3.5 half-elves are pretty bad, but if you're going to blow a feat on iron will (I wouldn't, but many do), then you might as well take half-elf over human for the low light vision and bumps to your maximum modifier on useful skills.

In Pathfinder I think half-orcs actually got shafted even more. Sure they're better than 3.5 half orcs, but every single race got an extra +2 and more and compared to them the PF half-orc is even farther behind. I'd never use them for anything except a fire caster, just that one ARF is all that seems worthwhile. They get very little besides the +2, certainly not worth the extras that any other race gets. Half-elves got a few interesting minor abilities in Pathfinder to improve them on top of the better ability score bump that all the other races get. Maybe it's still not quite as good as others, but the gulf certainly shrank and I would seriously consider one for a dual or tri classed character.

The remaining races are still fairly close together in PF with human and dwarf on top. Halflings perhaps got a little better as dex & cha & small size make them great ray sorcerers. Other races have some ok ability score synergy, but not as good as halfling.

[Bhaakon]

You know, I don't know that humans are all that good in PF. Particularly if you are using alternate racial traits (of which the human alternates are lackluster). That extra feat is a tremendous enticement at level 1, but by mid levels it's nowhere near as big a deal (particularly if you're taking a class that gets bonus feats), and the streamlining of the skill system devalues their bonus SP as well. Still nice bonuses, just not the game changers they were in 3.5. The only PF builds in which I find humans have a decisive advantage are spontaneous casters, because of the alternate favored class bonus granting humans extra spells known in most of those classes.

The thing about PF races is that the alternate racial traits and racial favored class bonuses make the various races much more customizable and more suited for certain classes (and less for others). While a human remains a good choice for just about any build in PF, it's no longer the best choice for just about any build--as it often was in 3.5.

[Ravens_cry]

Humans (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human) get the most awesome Sorcerer favoured class bonus: Spells.