Vile Rigidity

[fryplink]

So, I was looking through the BoVD when I came across this oddity. It boosts your AC at the cost of Dex (although uncontrollably). My question is: Can I mitigate this with Naberius or, more likely (since my current character is going to be an Incarnum user) Strongheart Vest. Essentially, I'm asking, could I *hypothetically* get a downright silly AC, if I were willing to bind the Vest and use 1 point of essentia on it? How I am reading this disease it would work, although I would have to be careful to never get Dex-Drained to 0 from an alternate source.

Obviously Cancer Mage wouldn't take damage from the Dex, but would it gain the AC boost? The boost isn't one of the "negative effects" of a disease, is it? Also, with this and festering hate in the same book as the cancer mage, it feels... unintended. Honestly, it feels silly to have essentially ALL THE STR and ALL THE AC by taking a 1 level dip in Binder, playing an Incarnate or a dip in Cancer mage. I know that Festering Hate cheese is old news on these boards, and, by proxy I'm sure that Rigidity is also been looked over, being only a handful of pages away, and that AC just isn't as powerful as str.

Also, is there a method of reliably contracting a specific disease?

[sreservoir]

neither naberius nor strongheart vest will negate a penalty.

[Venger]

the same token of logic for why the festering anger cancer mage loop would work also holds true for vile rigidity. like most effects that give PCs nigh-infinite (NI) stats, there is a gentlemen's agreement between DMs and PCs not to do it to each other.

the reason you haven't heard of a similar vile rigidity exploit is because the armour bonus it grants, while NI with cancer mage, is a natural armor bonus, which can be circumvented by touch attacks. these become more common when one hits the mid levels and is a large part of why AC becomes largely irrelevant at these levels.

[fryplink]

neither naberius nor strongheart vest will negate a penalty.

So if I have them up when the disease does damage I will take the damage anyway?


the same token of logic for why the festering anger cancer mage loop would work also holds true for vile rigidity. like most effects that give PCs nigh-infinite (NI) stats, there is a gentlemen's agreement between DMs and PCs not to do it to each other.

the reason you haven't heard of a similar vile rigidity exploit is because the armour bonus it grants, while NI with cancer mage, is a natural armor bonus, which can be circumvented by touch attacks. these become more common when one hits the mid levels and is a large part of why AC becomes largely irrelevant at these levels.

Ok, thanks, is there a way of contracting diseases like these reliably. Also, I'm not doing this in a campaign, but in a cheese it-up PvP style competition. Infinite loops are only allowed to be repeated 15 times. that said, +15 AC and +15 Str is not a bad deal when cheesing it up is the goal.

[tyckspoon]

So if I have them up when the disease does damage I will take the damage anyway?


From Vile Rigidity, yes; a penalty is not damage (this is why you can still use Ray of Enfeeblement on things that are immune to ability damage, for example.) Festering Anger does do normal ability damage, so Naberius/Strongheart Vest will work with that one, as will buying a Rod of Bodily Restoration and using one of its charges each day to fix the damage incurred- 1d3 ability damage/day is pretty easy to deal with.

As for encountering them.. no guarantees, I'm afraid (aside from inflicting yourself with Festering Anger by hating something *really hard* for a long time.) Vile Rigidity is listed as a 'contact' infection, so you'd have to find some.. slime? evil dungeon ooze? hell-mold? that has it. Probably the easiest way would be to use/hire some divinations to find a current sufferer and then go hug them until you have it too. The BoVD diseases are stated to be basically supernatural expressions of evil and suffering, so it makes some sense that you could inflict them with Bestow Curse/Greater if necessary. But that's not an explicit supported use of the spells, so it falls under "Ask your DM" territory.

[fryplink]

Could I Iron Heart Surge the penalty away, but not the disease? Obviously, I'd have to IHS everyday, but... (ok, ok, I'm done if I can, that's super cheesy, far beyond the scope of our competition.)

[kardar233]

the same token of logic for why the festering anger cancer mage loop would work also holds true for vile rigidity. like most effects that give PCs nigh-infinite (NI) stats, there is a gentlemen's agreement between DMs and PCs not to do it to each other.

the reason you haven't heard of a similar vile rigidity exploit is because the armour bonus it grants, while NI with cancer mage, is a natural armor bonus, which can be circumvented by touch attacks. these become more common when one hits the mid levels and is a large part of why AC becomes largely irrelevant at these levels.

You can get around that by using Scintillating Scales, making half of your infinite AC bonus a deflection bonus. Half of infinity is infinity. Have fun.

[fryplink]

You can get around that by using Scintillating Scales, making half of your infinite AC bonus a deflection bonus. Half of infinity is infinity. Have fun.

It's not infinite, it's not even arbitrarily high(unless you have nothing to do, ever), it's just your AC increases by 2 every morning until you die when your Dex penalty is greater than your dex. If you can survive somehow, then the improved AC would be nice, but the only method I know of is Cancer Mage.

[kardar233]

Immortal and on a fast time plane should get you high enough that it shouldn't matter.

[Venger]

It's not infinite, it's not even arbitrarily high(unless you have nothing to do, ever), it's just your AC increases by 2 every morning until you die when your Dex penalty is greater than your dex. If you can survive somehow, then the improved AC would be nice, but the only method I know of is Cancer Mage.

oh, arena is quite different than normal games, that'll change the sort of advice you get quite dramatically.

One important thing that relying on disease prevents is going undead. it's somewhat popular in charop, since you become immune to disease (not just negative effects) so you can't rely on the good things about them like with festering anger and vile rigidity

cancer mage is actually pretty cool in arena. work on getting your AC crazy high possibly with a totemist/fist of the forest dip (check out person man's amazing x stat to y bonus guide) or something of the like since you'll be relying on vile rigidity. the scintillating scales trick is a great one for helping with defenses overall.

what sorts of tricks are you interested in offensively besides festering anger?

[Grinner]

Also, is there a method of reliably contracting a specific disease?


Yes, but I warn you, it may involve much animal cruelty.

First, isolate the source creature (Subject A) and determine by what maladies it is currently afflicted. This step is absolutely crucial. Remember, knowing is half the battle.

If Subject A is a dangerous creature or afflicted by multiple diseases, first employ orderlies to restrain the subject to a test bed and purchase additional test subjects. Mules are recommended. Donkeys will suffice.

The auxiliary test subjects should be exposed to Subject A in accordance to the target disease's contamination vector, preferably in a controlled environment. Expose only one subject. Expose another should the first expire before fulfilling its purpose; do not waste subjects. Allow time for all diseases to incubate fully.

Now, taking into consideration the nature of the target disease, plan your approach carefully.

If afflicted by only the target disease, you merely need to expose yourself to Subject A, or, should Subject A's lethality warrant concern, the auxiliary test subject.

If afflicted by multiple diseases, observe any symptoms displayed by the diseased auxiliary test subject (Subject B). Should Subject B display only the symptoms of the target disease, congratulations are in order. Simply expose yourself and await your results.

Should Subject B fail to display symptoms of the target disease, expose it to Subject A once more. Repeat until Subject B manifests symptoms of the target disease.

At this juncture, it is important to note that Subject A cannot be allowed to expire until Subject B displays symptoms of the target disease. If necessary, expose another auxiliary test subject (Subject B1).

If Subject B should show symptoms of multiple diseases including the target disease, expose it to another auxiliary test subject (Subject C). Allow time symptoms to manifest in Subject C.

Repeat until the latest subject manifests symptoms of only the target disease.

Should the city guard inquire as to reasons for your purchase of such a large quantity of animals, make every attempt to divert their attentions. If they should inquire further, do not hesitate to eliminate them. Remember, progress requires sacrifice.

[Grinner]

Damn. Now I want to homebrew mechanics for disease magic.