Niu's New Resistance Team

[t209]

Currently, she is the only survivor of the Resistance and on her way to send a sending spell to Hinjo about their demise. After she sends the message, she should assemble a new team. Who should she get? (New Characters)
- A Mongolian (or Orc) Warrior
-Some cleric?
- Some Wizard? (or V in Portal)

[NerfTW]

Most likely after getting a sending spell, she'll simply book passage to the island the rest of the Azurites are on, or the Elven homelands.

[Silva Stormrage]

From WHERE? Just wondering where she will find allies in a completely hostile area.

[Dr.Epic]

Currently, she is the only survivor of the Resistance and on her way to send a sending spell to Hinjo about their demise. After she sends the message, she should assemble a new team. Who should she get? (New Characters)
- A Mongolian (or Orc) Warrior
-Some cleric?
- Some Wizard? (or V in Portal)

Starting a completely new resistance group by yourself in enemy lands where the ruling forcing is (a) far more powerful than you and (b) has already squashed just about everyone in the last resistance group is gonna be near impossible.

[skaddix]

She uses sending and Hinjo will get the Elves to pick her up

[Mutant Sheep]

She uses sending and Hinjo will get the Elves to pick her up

What elves? The elves sent a team before to help a good sized group of low-to-mid levels resist a world-threatening regime that conquered one of the strongest bastions of good on the mortal plane, why send another team/person capable of teleporting to the other side of the world JUST to pick up a level, like, 5ish or something fighter/rogue? Waste of time, resources, and unless its a team of 6 epic level elves come to wipe out Xykon, pointless.

[t209]

Starting a completely new resistance group by yourself in enemy lands where the ruling forcing is (a) far more powerful than you and (b) has already squashed just about everyone in the last resistance group is gonna be near impossible.

Maybe Companion to survive in Hostile land (like Need help guys)?

[archon_huskie]

What elves? The elves sent a team before to help a good sized group of low-to-mid levels resist a world-threatening regime that conquered one of the strongest bastions of good on the mortal plane, why send another team/person capable of teleporting to the other side of the world JUST to pick up a level, like, 5ish or something fighter/rogue? Waste of time, resources, and unless its a team of 6 epic level elves come to wipe out Xykon, pointless.

It costs two level 5 spells to teleport there and back, one level 4 spell to scry the area to get Studied carefully level familiarity, one hour to do said studying, no material cost for teleport, and scrying costs Eye of Eagle, nitric acid, copper, and zinc, and the time to teleport there and back.

All spells are refreshed each day. So what are the resources getting wasted here?

[Mutant Sheep]

All spells are refreshed each day. So what are the resources getting wasted here?

I direct you to this neat list of the resources required. :smalltongue:

...two level 5 spells to teleport there and back, one level 4 spell to scry the area to get Studied carefully level familiarity, one hour to do said studying, no material cost for teleport, and scrying costs Eye of Eagle, nitric acid, copper, and zinc, and the time to teleport there and back.
This, to get a human level 5 fighter/rogue. Who could be a poly morphed spy.:smallamused:

[Draconi Redfir]

From WHERE? Just wondering where she will find allies in a completely hostile area.

Cliffport?

[Emanick]

Starting a completely new resistance group by yourself in enemy lands where the ruling forcing is (a) far more powerful than you and (b) has already squashed just about everyone in the last resistance group is gonna be near impossible.

True. But if Niu does decide to restart the Resistance, it's not going to be as hard to keep the organization safe as it was up until this point. Without Team Evil around, Gobbotopia presumably has very few high-level characters left to scry, spy, and fight, etc.; if it weren't for the fact that many of the tunnels have been collapsed, I'd say that it would be far easier than before for an underground liberation movement to operate. There probably won't even be a roving Wight squad that cracks down on Black Ops activities anymore.

[Flame of Anor]

No one who had gone through what Niu has (and, like Niu, is not a completely hardened type) would turn around and try again, especially without any high-level characters. As a sane person, not to mention one whose best friend sacrificed his life so she could get away, she's going to be leaving the area as quickly as possible, with a good chance of some PTSD to boot.


Most likely after getting a sending spell, she'll simply book passage to the island the rest of the Azurites are on, or the Elven homelands.

I agree with this.

[t209]

Cliffport?

maybe wandering adventurer in trouble!

[Dr.Epic]

Maybe Companion to survive in Hostile land (like Need help guys)?

Who? Who is there? All the "companions" are either the resistance members who were just killed, goblinoids, or prisoners heavily locked up. Not many options there.

[skaddix]

What elves? The elves sent a team before to help a good sized group of low-to-mid levels resist a world-threatening regime that conquered one of the strongest bastions of good on the mortal plane, why send another team/person capable of teleporting to the other side of the world JUST to pick up a level, like, 5ish or something fighter/rogue? Waste of time, resources, and unless its a team of 6 epic level elves come to wipe out Xykon, pointless.

I said pick up they send in someone with teleport to grab her and bring her to the island. I did not say send a new attack force in. Although they might seeing as the Top 4 and the Most Powerful undead minions will soon be departing leaving paltry resistance that the blues should be able to defeat.

[t209]

Who? Who is there? All the "companions" are either the resistance members who were just killed, goblinoids, or prisoners heavily locked up. Not many options there.

Maybe curious adventurers, risktakers, nomads, exiled warrior clans or dumb dudes.

[skaddix]

I direct you to this neat list of the resources required. :smalltongue:

This, to get a human level 5 fighter/rogue. Who could be a poly morphed spy.:smallamused:

She sends sending assuming they pick her up quickly enough it should be fine besides u can figure out if a persons a spy if u know to look by playing 20 Questions.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yes, all that to get a complete nobody to the elves. I don't see why they would want to teleport to pick her up when she should be perfectly able to just go to Cliffport and take a boat. She could give more information than the 25 words the sending would be able to, but she's hardly O-Chul in her ability to know spelllists, and the elves do not seem to be invested in the Gates enough (or at all) to spend any more resources to get instantaneous information to help the bunch of homeless hungry Azurites who plopped themselves down on an island near them.

[Tulya]

While the elves we've seen do seem to tend towards being efficient to the extant of appearing cold, Niu does have possible value beyond a single sending. Sending can convey a great deal of information in 25 words, used well, but it still requires sacrificing significant information.

Even so, it would be understandable to leave her to find her own way. Niu is an experienced Fighter/Rogue. She's been fighting as a part of the resistance for a great deal of time, now, in adventuring terms. She should be able to evade encounters she can't handle, and avoid perils more naive NPCs would fall to.

[factotum]

Add me to the list who don't think another Resistance is going to spring up here. They were at their strongest just now, with Team Peregrine on side and presumably everyone having gained a level or two through fighting, and yet Redcloak crushed them with as little care or effort as someone might spend crushing an ant. And he did that alone! It ought to be pretty obvious to Niu now, even if it wasn't before, that this is an unwinnable war--even if she had the entire Order in Azure City to help her out she couldn't turn the tide against 20 thousand hobgoblins (plus however many more goblinoids have moved in recently) even without Xykon and Redcloak present.

Plus, on a more practical level, where could any new Resistance hide out? The mountain caves have been discovered and collapsed by earthquake. Realistically, the only hope left for freeing Azure City from goblinoid rule is a direct frontal assault by a large army.

[skaddix]

Add me to the list who don't think another Resistance is going to spring up here. They were at their strongest just now, with Team Peregrine on side and presumably everyone having gained a level or two through fighting, and yet Redcloak crushed them with as little care or effort as someone might spend crushing an ant. And he did that alone! It ought to be pretty obvious to Niu now, even if it wasn't before, that this is an unwinnable war--even if she had the entire Order in Azure City to help her out she couldn't turn the tide against 20 thousand hobgoblins (plus however many more goblinoids have moved in recently) even without Xykon and Redcloak present.

Plus, on a more practical level, where could any new Resistance hide out? The mountain caves have been discovered and collapsed by earthquake. Realistically, the only hope left for freeing Azure City from goblinoid rule is a direct frontal assault by a large army.

also cliffport are goblin allies

more likely a naval invasion but it depends on how much damage they want to do to the city

[zimmerwald1915]

Plus, on a more practical level, where could any new Resistance hide out? The mountain caves have been discovered and collapsed by earthquake. Realistically, the only hope left for freeing Azure City from goblinoid rule is a direct frontal assault by a large army.
Interestingly enough, the only large armies we've seen are those in the Empires of Bodily Fluids. The Azurites certainly don't have tens of thousands of soldiers at their disposal. The Elves presumably don't have a large army available either, or they wouldn't rely on inserting commando teams (a classic tactic for a state that wants to fight a war on the cheap). The various humanoid nations on the Southern and Northern continents are divided amongst themselves, and among the most powerful of them recognize Gobbotopia. Nothing can be said of the Dwarves, but they are far away.

[AniThyng]

also cliffport are goblin allies

more likely a naval invasion but it depends on how much damage they want to do to the city

Er no, "recognition" does not equal "allies". Cliffport simply accepted that Gobbotopia is there to stay, and they'll overlook the whole human slavery bit by making half hearted entreaties to change it via "economic engagement"

[Jubal_Barca]

Interestingly enough, the only large armies we've seen are those in the Empires of Bodily Fluids. The Azurites certainly don't have tens of thousands of soldiers at their disposal. The Elves presumably don't have a large army available either, or they wouldn't rely on inserting commando teams (a classic tactic for a state that wants to fight a war on the cheap). The various humanoid nations on the Southern and Northern continents are divided amongst themselves, and among the most powerful of them recognize Gobbotopia. Nothing can be said of the Dwarves, but they are far away.

I think it was implied that there were a lot more Azurite troops than died in the defence of the city; the trouble was that maybe half their forces were feudal in style, and then there were a lot of desertions. Without the Sapphire Guard it seems unlikely they can be a major threat, though. We don't really know if the humanoid nations have many troops, not seeing them doesn't mean they're not there - and similarly with the elves. They may just deem that it's not worth sending a whole army to Azure city and suffer heavy losses against an epic-level lich, which would then leave their homelands low on protection. Tarquin doesn't seem to want to bring the elves in to attack him, so they must have some kind of significant force.

[thisisnotspam]

Her new resistance team will include:

1 Dashing Swordsman and his airship crew
1 Dwarven female cleric of Loki
2 Contract killers (1 human 1 dwarf)
1 Gnome Druid and 1 Half elf wizard
1 Human wizard girl and her ghost dad
1 Human male cleric of Loki
2 Lawyers
1 Paladin without a bard servant

[Draconi Redfir]

also cliffport are goblin allies

more likely a naval invasion but it depends on how much damage they want to do to the city

Already been said but yeah cliffport isn't actually allied to Gobbotopia, it's just not it's enemy. And it really only recognized it as a nation and opened trade with it due to the Elvin infiltrators harassing the place, Cliffport and Gobbotopia share a disliking of Elves, so if Gobbotopia is being attacked by elves, that both means they are not working with the elves, and they do not like the elves. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.


Her new resistance team will include:

1 Dashing Swordsman and his airship crew
1 Dwarven female cleric of Loki
2 Contract killers (1 human 1 dwarf)
1 Gnome Druid and 1 Half elf wizard
1 Human wizard girl and her ghost dad
1 Human male cleric of Loki
2 Lawyers
1 Paladin without a bard servant

Ohhh now that would be fun:smallbiggrin:

[Roland Itiative]

What elves? The elves sent a team before to help a good sized group of low-to-mid levels resist a world-threatening regime that conquered one of the strongest bastions of good on the mortal plane, why send another team/person capable of teleporting to the other side of the world JUST to pick up a level, like, 5ish or something fighter/rogue? Waste of time, resources, and unless its a team of 6 epic level elves come to wipe out Xykon, pointless.

They can get information from her. Much more so than they can get from a single Sending spell. It would be way easier to just scry the place, sure, but that doesn't work because of the Cloyster. So rescuing someone with info is a valid strategy, specially now that infiltrating a new team would mean building the whole "resistance" infra-structure from the ground up again.

They're "wasting" an easily renewable resource (spells) that would probably go to waste anyways (unless we assume every idle wizard finds a way to burn all of their spells every day) to get potentially important information. That sounds like a fine trade, to me. In fact, it sounds like an effortless way to get an edge on your enemies. And, assuming Team Peregrine's view on goblinoids is any compatible with the elven government's, Gobbotopia is their enemy, the whole deal was not just a way to help the Azurites.

[factotum]

The Elves presumably don't have a large army available either, or they wouldn't rely on inserting commando teams (a classic tactic for a state that wants to fight a war on the cheap).

It's also a classic tactic for a state that is thousands of miles from its target and thus can't easily send a full-sized army! Xykon isn't taking the hobgoblins with him to the Western Continent for the same reason...just too impractical to *get* them there, unless you happen to have an epic-level teleportation specialist like Ganonron available.

[Michaeler]

I figure it's more likely for Niu to go solo for now. Missing presumed dead until someone is being attacked by goblins when a well-timed backstab signals her return.

[Ron Miel]

Surely there are at least two other resistance cells.

They formed a unified residence here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html), but that doesn't mean they were all in the same place. And small, separate cells is a basic technique for resistance fighters. There are, therefore, likely still to be other resistance cells she can join.

[Kish]

We're done with the Azure City Resistance thread, I think.

That doesn't mean Niu won't show up again. But it does mean she won't show up in charge of another Azure City Resistance group.

[Roland Itiative]

Surely there are at least two other resistance cells.

They formed a unified residence here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html), but that doesn't mean they were all in the same place. And small, separate cells is a basic technique for resistance fighters. There are, therefore, likely still to be other resistance cells she can join.
Considering the leaders of the past separate groups were all in the same place when RC attacked, I'd be inclined to think they did all join the same base after merging the groups, no matter how bad a decision this is.

[Ron Miel]

Considering the leaders of the past separate groups were all in the same place when RC attacked, I'd be inclined to think they did all join the same base after merging the groups, no matter how bad a decision this is.

Not the leaders. Representatives.

I see no indication that they all moved to the same place. And even a 1st level rogue would know that's a bad idea.

[t209]

Not the leaders. Representatives.

I see no indication that they all moved to the same place. And even a 1st level rogue would know that's a bad idea.

Also maybe Redcloak have attacked the different cells due to his Genre Savviness about the resistance or Thanh is dumb enough to move to a same place.

[Flame of Anor]

Her new resistance team will include:

1 Dashing Swordsman and his airship crew
1 Dwarven female cleric of Loki
2 Contract killers (1 human 1 dwarf)
1 Gnome Druid and 1 Half elf wizard
1 Human wizard girl and her ghost dad
1 Human male cleric of Loki
2 Lawyers
1 Paladin without a bard servant


Ohhh now that would be fun until Redcloak massacred them all :smalleek:

Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

[Doxkid]

[QUOTE=Mutant Sheep;12528546
This, to get a human level 5 fighter/rogue. Who could be a poly morphed spy.:smallamused:[/QUOTE]

Well...there are a lot of ways this is correct:

* She would need to be of some significance to bother entering enemy territory at all for. A general, a commander, powerful by her own ability, connected to someone powerful, knowledgeable about someone powerful...

* They would not need to actually go to her to get any and all information she has. Teleport is a 5th level spell. So is Sending. And Dream. and Nightmare.

While Teleport is the most common of those spells for an arcane caster, likely to be taken by any that can get it, Sending is also a well known and well used. Added to that, Sending is on the Cleric spell list as well. As a 4th level spell.

Basically, instead of even thinking about having someone cast a Teleport, the smart thing would be to load everyone up with Sending one morning and have them cast it at her all day long. She can even talk normally; they'll have spells to spare.

Run out of Sendings? Do it again tomorrow. And the day after that.

* Now, someone said finding out whether she is a spy is easy...and it could be, if you have the right spells/items/people. How will you check though? Teleport to her?

Getting directions for the Teleport would take a Sending in and of itself, then you have to worry about an epic lich and a city of Goblins one shotting you. Not worth it.

[Draconi Redfir]

Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

:smallannoyed:

Maybe more as a general adventuring party then a resistance group then.



Getting directions for the Teleport would take a Sending in and of itself, then you have to worry about an epic lich and a city of Goblins one shotting you. Not worth it.

Wich would be exactly why she is leaving the city.

[archon_huskie]

I direct you to this neat list of the resources required. :smalltongue:

This, to get a human level 5 fighter/rogue. Who could be a poly morphed spy.:smallamused:

Again. Neglible.:smalltongue:

No reason not to do it for one's allies.

[Adoendithas]

Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

But how would Redcloak be able to kill Eugene or Julia? The blood oath is still binding them to kill Xykon. Plus, Eugene's already dead.

And the lawyers have a restraining order. You can't beat that.

[Kish]

Belkar did.

So Redcloak would probably need to call in Xykon to deal with the lawyers.

[The Pilgrim]

Not the leaders. Representatives.

I see no indication that they all moved to the same place. And even a 1st level rogue would know that's a bad idea.

Thanh said "the Resistance is dead". That's a pretty clear indicator that there are no more cells.

[Dr.Epic]

Maybe curious adventurers, risktakers, nomads, exiled warrior clans or dumb dudes.

"Oh, hello there. My entire resistance group was easily exterminated by the enemy who number in the thousands and are commanded by (near-)epic level, evil spell casters. They are highly organized, and our number will only be in the dozens. Want to risk your life and possible soul venturing into enemy lands on a mission with virtually no chance of success and no payoff?

"Why are you fleeing away from me?"

[t209]

"Oh, hello there. My entire resistance group was easily exterminated by the enemy who number in the thousands and are commanded by (near-)epic level, evil spell casters. They are highly organized, and our number will only be in the dozens. Want to risk your life and possible soul venturing into enemy lands on a mission with virtually no chance of success and no payoff?

"Why are you fleeing away from me?"

Maybe an escape party like in Left 4 dead and LEft 4 dead 2 (like running through hostile area by hiding, nomading, and running to other countries.

[Draconi Redfir]

Maybe an escape party like in Left 4 dead and LEft 4 dead 2 (like running through hostile area by hiding, nomading, and running to other countries.

She's already outside of the city as far as we can tell (fleeing the mountains, pretty sure azure city did not include mountains) So with exception to perhaps outer-city goblinoid patrols and/or goblinoid civilians setting up farms or such, all of which she could easily sneak past, there really is no point. Really all she needs to do is leave Gobbotopia boarders and she's home free. (Considering the fact that as far as we know Redcloak doesn't know she's still alive, and if he does he just doesn’t care)


Honestly i think she's just going to make her way to the closest human port-city, most likely cliffport, use the scroll to contact Hinjo, and include were she is so one of the fleet ships can come pick her up.

[martianmister]

Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

Also ponies.

[skaddix]

Belkar did.

So Redcloak would probably need to call in Xykon to deal with the lawyers.

belkar is chaotic evil, restraining orders have no effect. redcloak is lawful evil so it does affect him but yeah no problem for Xykon

[t209]

So Niu will go
My name is Niu and I will have my revenge!

[SoC175]

and they'll overlook the whole human slavery bit by making half hearted entreaties to change it via "economic engagement"Rather they do not care at all about the whole human slavery as long as they can have trade and profit. "But we're really trying to change them via economic engagement" is just standard excuse a nation gives to third parties that are calling them out for having trade relationships with dictatorships.

[Gift Jeraff]

Heh. Funny thread title if you've been pronouncing Niu the same way I have. ("Nyoo")
Her new resistance team will include:

1 Dashing Swordsman and his airship crew
1 Dwarven female cleric of Loki
2 Contract killers (1 human 1 dwarf)
1 Gnome Druid and 1 Half elf wizard
1 Human wizard girl and her ghost dad
1 Human male cleric of Loki
2 Lawyers
1 Paladin without a bard servantDon't forget:

1 Elven wizard and his/her kobold ranger sidekick
2 Bounty hunters (1 lizardfolk 1 half-dragon)
2 Flumph lawyers
1 Half-orc barbarian and a riding dog
1 Goblin female raised by non-goblins

[Flame of Anor]

But how would Redcloak be able to kill Eugene or Julia? The blood oath is still binding them to kill Xykon.

So? It's not like a Blood Oath means you can't be killed except for by the subject.

[Dr.Epic]

Maybe an escape party like in Left 4 dead and LEft 4 dead 2 (like running through hostile area by hiding, nomading, and running to other countries.

Still doesn't change the risk involved. Very little people are going to join this crusade going into enemy lands.

The last resistance group lived in the occupied area and were there when they took over. They were compelled to fight back as it was their home and they were flung into the conflict.

[Narren]

Surely there are at least two other resistance cells.

They formed a unified residence here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0533.html), but that doesn't mean they were all in the same place. And small, separate cells is a basic technique for resistance fighters. There are, therefore, likely still to be other resistance cells she can join.

I agree that this is a good idea, but Thanh explicitly states that the resistance is dead. I think we can interpret that to mean that there aren't two other cells biding their time.


Well...there are a lot of ways this is correct:

* She would need to be of some significance to bother entering enemy territory at all for. A general, a commander, powerful by her own ability, connected to someone powerful, knowledgeable about someone powerful...

* They would not need to actually go to her to get any and all information she has. Teleport is a 5th level spell. So is Sending. And Dream. and Nightmare.

While Teleport is the most common of those spells for an arcane caster, likely to be taken by any that can get it, Sending is also a well known and well used. Added to that, Sending is on the Cleric spell list as well. As a 4th level spell.

Basically, instead of even thinking about having someone cast a Teleport, the smart thing would be to load everyone up with Sending one morning and have them cast it at her all day long. She can even talk normally; they'll have spells to spare.

Run out of Sendings? Do it again tomorrow. And the day after that.

* Now, someone said finding out whether she is a spy is easy...and it could be, if you have the right spells/items/people. How will you check though? Teleport to her?

Getting directions for the Teleport would take a Sending in and of itself, then you have to worry about an epic lich and a city of Goblins one shotting you. Not worth it.

How is spamming sending each day easier than just retrieving her and debriefing her. And if they suspect that she's a spy, there are plenty of ways to discern her identity. And if she is, great! You caught a spy!

[Yendor]

Nobody's contacting Niu with Sending or anything like it; she's had Cloister cast on her every few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html). Oh, and Cliffport is over a thousand miles away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0528.html), so she's not getting there any time soon.

[Doxkid]

How is spamming sending each day easier than just retrieving her and debriefing her. And if they suspect that she's a spy, there are plenty of ways to discern her identity. And if she is, great! You caught a spy!

Scry and die tactics are limited, so whoever is teleporting would be going in blind. If it was a spy, they would be dead before they could feel betrayed, with little chance of getting Raised since their bodies are behind enemy lines. If what kills them isn't a caster that could kill all of them in one go, its a vary large number of Goblinoids. Even if they are all level 1 goblins, there is a threat there. If they are above level 1 goblins, well...

Here is what the target of her Sending WILL know, whether it is some kingdom or a group of paladins, etc. After all, if this is common knowledge to other kingdoms, you would think it would spread to militant groups like paladins, etc so there shouldn't be anyone out of the loop that she could want to contact:

The area owned by an Epic caster
It is filled with an army of mooks led by a second caster who is a very high level.
Someone wants them to teleport over to get picked up.
Scrying on the area is impossible.

That just looks like a bad idea for me. Mostly because of the threat of this scenario:
-
*Party Teleports in*
:xykon:"Hi. I'm Xykon. Know what rhymes with 'Inappropriate epic encounter?'"
:eek:"Um..."
:xykon:"Surprise rounds and quickened 9th level spells."
:eek:"That doesn't..."
*Quickened Meteor swarm. Meteor swarm* Total of 62d6 damage
-
Whether or not it's possible from what we know of Xykon's casting doesnt matter. In all honesty, you could replace the Quickened Meteor swarm with basically any quickened spell...Chain Lightning, Fireball, Enervation on the caster, Scorching ray...the list goes on and the outcome is always a party wipe. And that's just with evocation spells and Enervation, Xykons favored tactics.

Teleporting in to a dangerous area to get one-shot by a guy that wont even notice the spell slots he used to do it are gone seems... Vaarsuvius-ish, you know?
---
As Yendor pointed out, the Cloister was renewed semi-recently so we have weeks if not months before anyone would be able to Send back to her.

Would you be able to, in good conscience, ask a party to Teleport into hostile territory without any/much/useful recon knowing what I listed as common knowledge? For someone that could just as easily be Paladin Mook with a great sword #87, or bait for a trap, or a spy, or Xykon himself, or...

If so, I suppose we now know why there aren't many high level casters left, to paraphrase a certain imp.

[G-Man Graves]

To all the people saying things to the effect of "Nomads" or "Hordes" (Surprisingly, not just t209), let me just draw your attention to one thing. There WERE nomad equivalents living on the edge of society in this setting. They aren't going to help retake Azure City. Can you guess why? Answered spoilered, wouldn't want to make this quiz too easy.

If you guessed "They aren't going to retake the city because they are the goblonoids who took it from the Azurites in the first place, congratulations, you've won! Private message me to redeem your coupon for one (1) internet!

[t209]

To all the people saying things to the effect of "Nomads" or "Hordes" (Surprisingly, not just t209), let me just draw your attention to one thing. There WERE nomad equivalents living on the edge of society in this setting. They aren't going to help retake Azure City. Can you guess why? Answered spoilered, wouldn't want to make this quiz too easy.

If you guessed "They aren't going to retake the city because they are the goblonoids who took it from the Azurites in the first place, congratulations, you've won! Private message me to redeem your coupon for one (1) internet!

How about a) False Flag Operation b) Bribe c) reward then backstab?

[G-Man Graves]

How about a) False Flag Operation b) Bribe c) reward then backstab?

d) None of the above are applicable.

Now, if you could explain what any of that means, as opposed to throwing around buzzwords that are loosely related to realpolitik, then I might be willing to consider what you are saying.

[t209]

d) None of the above are applicable.

Now, if you could explain what any of that means, as opposed to throwing around buzzwords that are loosely related to realpolitik, then I might be willing to consider what you are saying.

False Flag Operation: Get an elf team to disguise themselves as Goblins and attack a nomadic horde who will (foolishly) attack Gobbotopia
Bribe: Persuade the nomadic horde to fight for Azurites in return of gold (or land).
Reward and Backstab: This is same as bribe but let them fight with goblin so much that they will be too weak to fight the azurites (especially the nobles).

[Gift Jeraff]

It seems you got G-Man's quiz wrong. The only horde living on the outskirts of Azure City that has been seen or mentioned is the same horde that took over Azure City.

I also checked the Azure City travel guide thingy in WaXP to see if maybe that's where the idea of nomadic tribes came from, and I noticed a part that says the paladins pursuing individuals into other countries has given Azure City a negative reputation. Yeah, other human nations helping out is looking less and less likely...

Though now that I think about it, those orcs were kinda on good terms with the Azurites. Would be kinda neat if they have to rely on "monsters" to earn their happy ending, but the island seemed very small so it's unlikely.

[Flame of Anor]

*Party Teleports in*
:xykon:"Hi. I'm Xykon. Know what rhymes with 'Inappropriate epic encounter?'"
:eek:"Um..."
:xykon:"Surprise rounds and quickened 9th level spells."
:eek:"That doesn't..."
*Quickened Meteor swarm. Meteor swarm* Total of 62d6 damage

Wait...why would Xykon have a surprise round?

[Cynric]

If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away. And what with the skills Haley taught her she shoud be able to do well for herself in the Thieves Guild.

[Kish]

Wait...why would Xykon have a surprise round?
Presumably, in the scenario Doxkid is spinning, because they were expecting to pick up Niu and leave, not for Xykon to be there.

(I also observe that Quickened Meteor Swarm would actually show a higher-level spell slot than we've seen Xykon demonstrate before. Maximized Energy Drain is 12th-level, Quickened Meteor Swarm is 13th-level.)

If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away. And what with the skills Haley taught her she shoud be able to do well for herself in the Thieves Guild.
If you were Niu, you would want to work for Bozzok? Really?

Whatever Niu does, I think it will be better than that.

[Doxkid]

Wait...why would Xykon have a surprise round?

If the party is teleporting in without scrying, they would not be aware of him.

This is based on the normal Scry+teleport combo, in many of the cases I've seen, being ruled to give a surprise round to those that Teleported; they are aware of their opponents before their opponents are aware of them.

Of course, there are many different ruling on this, so I won't stand by the surprise round. Alternate rulings include 'The caster who cast Teleport ends his turn as the spell resolves, then initiative is rolled normally.'

This actually seems closer to the rules used in the comic, as we have seen the Lizardmen siblings both starting and not finishing the word 'Teleport' and ending but not starting the word 'Teleport' as they Teleport to/from Kobold Prophet when they Raise him. The evil caster ( a cleric if my memory serves) also ended the phrase 'Plane shift' upon appearing during the attack on Roy during his stay in LG heaven.

However, the moment Xykon goes based on initiative, the party is basically dead.
----
A point no one has brought up during the whole Teleport debate is the lack of information about where the caster would be teleporting. As the spell says
You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. This requires most of Nui's sending to be coordination for her retrieval and it may be impossible to those who haven't ever been to the mountains surrounding the city.
---

(I also observe that Quickened Meteor Swarm would actually show a higher-level spell slot than we've seen Xykon demonstrate before. Maximized Energy Drain is 12th-level, Quickened Meteor Swarm is 13th-level.)


Yes, I mentioned that the Quickened meteor swarm might be beyond his abilities, however he probably would not need it. Energy drain, followed by Quickened Enervation would also do the job and might just kill the target outright. There is no shortage on methods he could use to kill a wizard/party of a much lower level than him should he actually desire to.

[factotum]

If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away.

It's been explicitly stated in-comic that Greysky is more than a thousand miles from Azure City, and what evidence do you have that Haley etc. got there quickly? They left the Oracle in strip #570 and arrived at Greysky in #573, but there's absolutely no context for how many days or even weeks elapsed between those two strips.

[Yjama]

Except that Xykon is a Sorcerer, not a wizard. And last I checked, Sorcerers can't cast quickened spells.

[Flame of Anor]

It's been explicitly stated in-comic that Greysky is more than a thousand miles from Azure City, and what evidence do you have that Haley etc. got there quickly? They left the Oracle in strip #570 and arrived at Greysky in #573, but there's absolutely no context for how many days or even weeks elapsed between those two strips.

No, Cliffport is >1000 miles away.

[t209]

It seems you got G-Man's quiz wrong. The only horde living on the outskirts of Azure City that has been seen or mentioned is the same horde that took over Azure City.

I also checked the Azure City travel guide thingy in WaXP to see if maybe that's where the idea of nomadic tribes came from, and I noticed a part that says the paladins pursuing individuals into other countries has given Azure City a negative reputation. Yeah, other human nations helping out is looking less and less likely...

Though now that I think about it, those orcs were kinda on good terms with the Azurites. Would be kinda neat if they have to rely on "monsters" to earn their happy ending, but the island seemed very small so it's unlikely.

They're nomads, maybe they will be new comers that moved into somewhere near blue river and the new team is not to attack xykon. They will do sabotage and small raids and hit-and-run attacks.

[The Succubus]

Starting a completely new resistance group by yourself in enemy lands where the ruling forcing is (a) far more powerful than you and (b) has already squashed just about everyone in the last resistance group is gonna be near impossible.

Indeed. I can picture the recruitment campaign now...

"Come join the New Resistance, we shall overthrow our hated goblin oppressors!"

"Sounds cool - what happened to the old one?"

"Well, those that weren't ripped apart by devils, imploded, eaten alive by wights and forced to serve a necrophiliac were probably crushed to death in an earthquake....hey, get back here! Awwwww...:smallfrown:"

[t209]

Indeed. I can picture the recruitment campaign now...

"Come join the New Resistance, we shall overthrow our hated goblin oppressors!"

"Sounds cool - what happened to the old one?"

"Well, those that weren't ripped apart by devils, imploded, eaten alive by wights and forced to serve a necrophiliac were probably crushed to death in an earthquake....hey, get back here! Awwwww...:smallfrown:"

Death seeking mongolian proud warrior race guys would say: Close enough!
Maybe she would go Rambo or Captain Price or Viktor Reznov.

[Draconi Redfir]

t209... i hate to be the one to break it to you, but... well...

Order of the Stick is not skyrim.

It's shocking i know, but it's just one of those universal truths you'll have to accept.

It's not all bad though, you can always write a fanfiction (http://www.fanfiction.net/).

[t209]

t209... i hate to be the one to break it to you, but... well...

Order of the Stick is not skyrim.

It's shocking i know, but it's just one of those universal truths you'll have to accept.

It's not all bad though, you can always write a fanfiction (http://www.fanfiction.net/).

Actually it's based on Black Ops, Mass Effect 2 (Assemble the team), and MW3!

[Draconi Redfir]

OOTS is also not black ops, mass effect, modern warfare, or any other thing that is not order of the stick.

Order of the stick is order of the stick.

That is all.

[t209]

OOTS is also not black ops, mass effect, modern warfare, or any other thing that is not order of the stick.

Order of the stick is order of the stick.

That is all.

Thanks, I understand now that OOTS is OOTS! For additional info, what i mean "it" as in this thread, not the comic.

[G-Man Graves]

Order of the Stick is not ASoIaF either. Khal Drogo is not going to come riding down the hill to fulfill his marriage contract with Hinjo's previously unmentioned sister.

In all seriousness, if you can provide one (ONE) shred of evidence that there is a "Nomadic horde" that the party somehow has not already run into, and ISN'T made up of goblonoids, I will take back everything I have said.

[archon_huskie]

Right Now Xykon is off doing Thor knows what. Redcloak does not know where the skeleton is. Why would Xykon be sending Elves false sendings? Why would he be there to intercept a fifth level wizard retriving Niu?

Being an Epic lich sorcer make him powerful. It does not make him omnipotent omniscent or omniprescent.

[Flame of Anor]

Order of the Stick is not ASoIaF either. Khal Drogo is not going to come riding down the hill to fulfill his marriage contract with Hinjo's previously unmentioned sister.

In all seriousness, if you can provide one (ONE) shred of evidence that there is a "Nomadic horde" that the party somehow has not already run into, and ISN'T made up of goblonoids, I will take back everything I have said.

The closest I can think of is the island orcs, and they are kind of stuck to their island (so non-nomadic) and the party has run into them.

[toughluck]

It's also a classic tactic for a state that is thousands of miles from its target and thus can't easily send a full-sized army! Xykon isn't taking the hobgoblins with him to the Western Continent for the same reason...just too impractical to *get* them there, unless you happen to have an epic-level teleportation specialist like Ganonron available.

Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.

[toughluck]

Honestly i think she's just going to make her way to the closest human port-city, most likely cliffport, use the scroll to contact Hinjo, and include were she is so one of the fleet ships can come pick her up.
Yes, because it makes perfect sense to wait a few days before casting the spell instead of doing so immediately when she's clear (at least away from the Cloister's effects). Oh, and it also makes sense to make that trip to another city (Cliffport was apparently a week or two away from Azure City) and then wait for a ship. It would cost her to get food and then lodging for those few days, and I don't think she had any gold with her.
Even then, it takes far fewer resources to just teleport there and back again with her. It's not like magic is that uncommon in OotS world.
If you're saying that resources matter that much, you're obviously thinking of a Lawful or Neutral Evil leader. I could imagine Tarquin being so heartless, maybe Redcloak. But no way is Hinjo going to leave the sole survivor of the Resistance to die out there -- not because she has information to share, but because she needs saving.

Traveling could take a few strips, and I feel the Resistance arc will close pretty quickly, and I see two possible resolutions for Niu:
1. She casts Sending, Hinjo sends someone to pick her up immediately.
2. Redcloak finds and kills her.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

[toughluck]

Nobody's contacting Niu with Sending or anything like it; she's had Cloister cast on her every few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0709.html). Oh, and Cliffport is over a thousand miles away (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0528.html), so she's not getting there any time soon.

It's enough that she's in the clear and contacts Hinjo, they'll know she's there and could possibly teleport to her, and then out -- with her. Cloister doesn't prevent teleporting OUT of it, there may be problems teleporting IN.
They couldn't scry on her, they couldn't send to her, but otherwise it's all fine.

Keep in mind that she is aware of the effects of the Cloister -- Haley and O-Chul described the effect to Hinjo and the elves, they knew why scrying failed, and know how to work around the issue.

As for bait and switch tactics, there are ways to work around that, too, but it seems not to be necessary -- Team Peregrine managed to not be surprised by the hobgoblin patrol (it seemed the other way around, actually), and wiped it out pretty much instantly. If they wanted to be as prepared as possible, send two casters -- one will teleport out, second (hasted, if necessary, with quickened teleport slot or scroll) will teleport in.
It also seems that they don't need to know the surroundings -- I'm fairly sure Team Peregrine wizard did not visit the lands around Azure City, and yet teleported pretty well onto the mountain path.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yes, because it makes perfect sense to wait a few days before casting the spell instead of doing so immediately when she's clear (at least away from the Cloister's effects). Oh, and it also makes sense to make that trip to another city (Cliffport was apparently a week or two away from Azure City) and then wait for a ship. It would cost her to get food and then lodging for those few days, and I don't think she had any gold with her.
Even then, it takes far fewer resources to just teleport there and back again with her. It's not like magic is that uncommon in OotS world.

Yes, because the Azure survivors just have SO MANY high-level wizards with them don't they?

[JSSheridan]

She'll head to Cliffport and end up joining a low-level adventuring group for a spinoff series Rich will make after the OOtS is over.

Were there any other cities that followed the Southern pantheon? There could be a community of Azureite refugees she could find a home with.

[factotum]

Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.

Firstly, doing that would require Ganonron to have epic teleport available, and he might not have had any castings left. Secondly, V didn't give a rat's behind for the defences of Azure City, or the Azurites themselves for that matter--he only teleported the fleet because he wanted their help, and he certainly had no intention of wasting his surprise round to clear out the goblins from Azure City before dropping in on a totally prepared and angry Xykon! He was after the big target, not the minions.

[Flame of Anor]

Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.

We have no reason to believe that Epic Teleport works on enemies.

[Kish]

We have no reason to believe that Epic Teleport works on enemies.
I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.

[t209]

I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.

He/she looks scary and Kazumi and Daigo thought he/she's gonna kill them!

[Flame of Anor]

I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.

A lot of DMs interpret "willing" as "ally" to avoid a lot of needless hassle.

[Kish]

A lot of DMs interpret "willing" as "ally" to avoid a lot of needless hassle.
Allowing that--and allowing that Spliced-Vaarsuvius counted as an ally to the Azure City fleet--for this post just for the sake of argument, do you really think Ganonron, Terror of a Thousand Planes, designed his trademark spell to only work on the willing?

factotum gave very compelling reasons for Spliced-Vaarsuvius not to have used Epic Teleport that way without 1) presuming Rich used a house rule and 2) presuming Ganonron designed the spell with an "only willing" restriction at all.

[Flame of Anor]

Allowing that--and allowing that Spliced-Vaarsuvius counted as an ally to the Azure City fleet--for this post just for the sake of argument, do you really think Ganonron, Terror of a Thousand Planes, designed his trademark spell to only work on the willing?

factotum gave very compelling reasons for Spliced-Vaarsuvius not to have used Epic Teleport that way without 1) presuming Rich used a house rule and 2) presuming Ganonron designed the spell with an "only willing" restriction at all.

Well, for one thing, I'm sure the epic spell DC or whatever it is (Roy's the only one who knows the epic rules around here) would be much, much higher if it weren't willing. And since he was using his spell to move his armies around, he wouldn't generally need it to work on the unwilling anyway.

[Yendor]

Well, for one thing, I'm sure the epic spell DC or whatever it is (Roy's the only one who knows the epic rules around here) would be much, much higher if it weren't willing. And since he was using his spell to move his armies around, he wouldn't generally need it to work on the unwilling anyway.

Who says he's using it on his army? Maybe he teleports the enemy army to the middle of the ocean or something. Five miles up. Flawless victory! :smallwink:

Anyway, Niu has one chance to convey whatever information she has to Hinjo. She also has to think about surviving long enough for any possible rescue attempt to reach her. She should head for the nearest friendly town and mention this in her sending. (Cliffport isn't nearby, and Greysky isn't friendly.) And I believe Hinjo will do what he can to rescue her -- she should be considered a Azurite hero.

[Ninja Dragon]

She should go to the island where Hinjo is. She probably has some useful information about Azure City, that would be too long to tell by sending.

And starting a resistance from the scratch will be harder than the first time, since thay had allies who survived the war. Now she will have to look for people who doesn't have a reason to fight.

[t209]

Who says he's using it on his army? Maybe he teleports the enemy army to the middle of the ocean or something. Five miles up. Flawless victory! :smallwink:

Anyway, Niu has one chance to convey whatever information she has to Hinjo. She also has to think about surviving long enough for any possible rescue attempt to reach her. She should head for the nearest friendly town and mention this in her sending. (Cliffport isn't nearby, and Greysky isn't friendly.) And I believe Hinjo will do what he can to rescue her -- she should be considered a Azurite hero.

We got V in other realm, Enor and Ganjii! How about Tarquin's "Good Publicity act" by "liberating" azure city if the arc shows his empires felling (at least two would be nice)
or Azurites could go like Western Continent equivalent of Redguards from Elder Scrolls Saga.

[Flame of Anor]

Who says he's using it on his army? Maybe he teleports the enemy army to the middle of the ocean or something. Five miles up. Flawless victory! :smallwink:

Nah, it says here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) that he "teleported vast armies to conquer world after world". That clearly implies that the armies are doing the conquering.