important breakpoints in power

[sreservoir]

is quite clear that many classes do not really scale linearly. some classes are front-loaded, giving their most important features in their early levels.

and then there are those which, at some level in the middle of their career, suddenly shoots up in power or versatility -- or, really, just a feature which causes a drastic change in playstyle. these classes interest me.

off the top of my head, I can think of druid/wild shape ranger 5/6, when wild shape is gained; binder 8, the second simultaneous vestige; healer 17, where they ... suddenly get gate for no apparent reason.

tl;dr important milestone for classes, beyond the scope of simply dipping for, but crucial to the class playstyle.

[Little Brother]

Factotum 8, Swashbuckler 3, Paladin 2, Prepared Caster 17, spontaneous caster 18, and so on.

[RaggedAngel]

Sigh, because it must be said: Truenamer 20, when they get all-day Gate with no XP cost.

[Silva Stormrage]

Dread Necromancer 8 is when they become a walking army.

[Circle of Life]

Duskblade 3.

[Thurbane]

I know it was mentioned in the OP, but Binder 8 is worth repeating...

[Zaq]

Totemist 2, if you want to count something so early, is the single biggest jump in power the class gets.

Factotum 8 is big enough to mention twice.

Shadowcaster 7 and 13 are pretty huge.

I forget, at what level do Wilders get infinite PP with Bestow Power shenanigans? If you're playing that way, that can be a breakpoint.

Cleric 7 is pretty big, if for no other reason than Divine Powah! coming online.

[sonofzeal]

Cleric 7 is pretty big, if for no other reason than Divine Powah! coming online.
Divine Power's actually pretty overrated; most of the time, the effects end up pretty similar to Divine Favor which is a 1st level spell.

Righteous Might and Visage of the Deity are where it's at. :smallamused:

[grarrrg]

If Pathfinder is in, then Gunslinger 5. Dex-to-Damage with Guns!
Also Gunslinger 11 lets you take a Feat to reduce Grit costs.

There are rumors of a level 12 Gunslinger, but they have yet to be proven....

[Cruiser1]

Prestige Classes have important breakpoints in power too, where some are definitely frontloaded or capstone-loaded. For example:


Rainbow Servant 10: Nobody cares about anything in this PrC except for the capstone ability of Cleric spell access.
Spelldancer 1: The reverse of Rainbow Servant, this class is totally frontloaded, where there's never any reason to take more than the first level of it.
Incantatrix 2: Getting Cooperative Metamagic at 2nd level is what allows effectively free metamagic.

[Gavinfoxx]

Druid 5 or Druid 6... Druid 8...

[RaggedAngel]

Swordsage 2; I've played enough low level Swordsages to know that until you get Wis to AC you are astoundingly easy to hit. That first level is a painful one.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Divine Power's actually pretty overrated; most of the time, the effects end up pretty similar to Divine Favor which is a 1st level spell.

Righteous Might and Visage of the Deity are where it's at. :smallamused:Depends on what level you are. Divine Power nets you an extra attack on a full attack at levels 7, 11-14, and 16-20, and that extra attack stacks with Righteous Wrath/whatever else. Also, temp HP are nice.

I'd also argue that the breakpoint of Incantatrix is Metamagic Effect at level 3, with the exception being that you're in a party with a lot of other casters. Then Cooperative Metamagic is indeed the breakpoint.

Once wizards hit level 9 they can scry and die, not to mention spam stuff like Black Tentacles, Confusion and Polymorph, but perhaps it's not a particular break "point."

[Tvtyrant]

Arcane Archer 2 (Imbue Arrow), Shadowdancer 1 or 2 (HiPS and Evasion).

[Thurbane]

Monk 2: IUS, FoB, 2 bonus feats (without needing prereqs), Evasion, 3 good saves...

[sonofzeal]

Depends on what level you are. Divine Power nets you an extra attack on a full attack at levels 7, 11-14, and 16-20, and that extra attack stacks with Righteous Wrath/whatever else. Also, temp HP are nice.
At level 7 that's significant. At higher level... an extra attack at a -15 penalty and only when I'm making a full attack is not really attractive. At all. Temp hp are nice, but nowhere close to justifying a 4th level slot over a 1st level slot. It changes your BAB, and that makes it useful for certain things, but most of the time I can find better uses for 4th level slots, and Divine Favour does pretty much exactly the same job far more cheaply.

[Flickerdart]

At 16+, a 4th level spell slot isn't worth that much more than a 1st level spell slot, though.

[sonofzeal]

At 16+, a 4th level spell slot isn't worth that much more than a 1st level spell slot, though.
It's worth Freedom of Movement, Dimensional Lock, and Greater Magic Weapon - not to mention Divination and Lesser Planar Ally. Even at 16th level, you've got tones of use out of those slots.

[tiercel]

Mindbender 1 (Telepathy = awesome, no loss of caster level, and if your DM allows Mindsight, just sick)

Cleric 1 (the 1-level dip so good it has its own handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0))

Wizard 5 (3rd level spells are very nice, you now are getting enough spells per day that you have to be quite so stingy every encounter, plus? PrC time, you've gotten your free Scribe Scroll and bonus feat at 5, and a fair number of PrCs let you in at 6th level)

[Hirax]

Divine oracle 2
Loremaster 1
Olin gisir 1
Pious templar 1
Bloodstorm blade 4
Ruby knight vindicator 7
Paladin 2
Spellsword1
Shadowdancer 1, or 2 if you don't have evasion from somewhere else
Prestige paladin 3
Pouncewhirlbarian 1
Cloistered cleric 1 (3 feats for 1 level if you trade for knowledge devotion and take the planning and domination domains, for instance)
Shadow adept 1 (3 feats at 1st level, seriously?)
Hathran/red wizard/Halruaan elder 5
Incantatrix3, I agree metamagic effect is where it's at, but going all the way to 10 is also totally worth it
Wayfarer guide 1
Fatespinner 4
Wyrm wizard 2
Spellthief 1
Contemplative 1 or 6
Seeker of the misty isle 1
Church inquisitor 1 (and other things that grant a domain at 1st level)
Ur-priest 2
Sublime chord 2
Divine crusader 1
Master of masks 1
Beastmaster 1
Bear warrior 1
Swiftblade 9
Chameleon 2

[Flickerdart]

It's worth Freedom of Movement, Dimensional Lock, and Greater Magic Weapon - not to mention Divination and Lesser Planar Ally. Even at 16th level, you've got tones of use out of those slots.
LPA is not especially stellar at that level, and Dimensional Lock is 8th level. You probably have enough slots to prepare Divination, Freedom of Movement, GMW, and then also something else.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

At level 7 that's significant. At higher level... an extra attack at a -15 penalty and only when I'm making a full attack is not really attractive. At all. Temp hp are nice, but nowhere close to justifying a 4th level slot over a 1st level slot. It changes your BAB, and that makes it useful for certain things, but most of the time I can find better uses for 4th level slots, and Divine Favour does pretty much exactly the same job far more cheaply.By that level if you're really focusing on smashing things the -15 (or -10 for levels 11-14) penalty arguably doesn't mean as much. Also, Divine Power is a great reason to go Cloistered Cleric instead.

[jaybird]

Wizard 5 and Sorcerer 6. The point beyond which no opponent but another full caster can realistically beat you.

[sonofzeal]

LPA is not especially stellar at that level, and Dimensional Lock is 8th level. You probably have enough slots to prepare Divination, Freedom of Movement, GMW, and then also something else.
...yes, unless you think you might want to cast FoM or GMW more than once, which is generally a good bet because you're likely in a party full of people who benefit from one or both of those.

[NeoSeraphi]

Paladin 5...because there really aren't any actual class features past Paladin 5....*sigh*

[Novawurmson]

Fighter 1, 2, 4, or 6 for Dungeoncrasher. Some Pathfinder Fighter Archetypes are decent, though. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 6 for Pounce.

[Curious]

Fighter 1, 2, 4, or 6 for Dungeoncrasher. Some Pathfinder Fighter Archetypes are decent, though. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 6 for Pounce.

Uh, you mean Spirit Lion totem Barbarian 1, right?

[Silva Stormrage]

Paladin 5...because there really aren't any actual class features past Paladin 5....*sigh*

Its still not all that great... Paladin 2 is still a better point to drop out of >.>

[NeoSeraphi]

Its still not all that great... Paladin 2 is still a better point to drop out of >.>

Well, if you want to be an actual paladin, rather than a sorcadin, then you want to grab a mount or Charging Smite before you prestige out.

[0nimaru]

Well, if you want to be an actual paladin, rather than a sorcadin, then you want to grab a mount or Charging Smite before you prestige out.

I agree. The thread started out as "breakpoints for when your class feels like it's trope" and not *here's where you jump off*.

I'll throw in my agreement on most full-casters feeling right between 5-7. You might have some nifty effects before then, but you usually end the day plugging creeps with a crossbow.

[navar100]

When spellcasters get 3rd level spells, that is when they take off. 1st and 2nd level spells are nifty and useful in their own rite, but it's the 3rd level spells where the PWER starts to come in. In addition, the nifty 1st and 2nd level non-instantaneous spells, especially the 1 round/level spells, will finally have a duration long enough to ensure lasting most if not all of the combat. Even for direct damage spells, a basic 5d6 fireball or lightning bolt means something that level.

Warriors want that 6th level for the second attack. It's emotionally satisfying.

Rogues really like 2nd level for evasion defense then 3rd level for 2d6 sneak attack offense.

[Lans]

Its still not all that great... Paladin 2 is still a better point to drop out of >.>


You can get a wombat with 11 HD as your mount at level 5

[dextercorvia]

Chameleon 7. The floating feat at 2 is nice, and a lot of people jump out there, but for me, Double Aptitude is what it is all about. At 5, your spells per day can double, but at 7 you get them all at once. That also gives you 5th level spells.

Ardent 10. Dominant Ideal

[Lans]

The levels when classes get animate dead, planar ally, polymorph any object.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Warblade 6. At this level, you can have both WRT (extra turn for an ally) and IHS (Reverse Gravity? IHS).

[Bakkan]

Warlock 4, for taking 10 on UMD
Warlock 11, (I think) because that's when EB damage progression slows down

Artificer 13, for taking 10 on UMD

Incarnate 2, for a single chakra bind and a lot of essentia

Crusader 3, 6 maneuvers, 2 stances, 5 HP delayed damage pool, furious counterstrike (essentially +1 atk/dmg all the time), CHA to Will saves, and 1/day reroll a failed save

[NeoSeraphi]

Beguiler 6, so you can dip into a prestige class and advance your spellcasting before you come back for beguiler 7 (and get Advanced Learning for a 4th level spell instead of 3rd)

Fighter 2 (obviously)

Monk 2 for IUS, Monastic Training (Psychic Warrior) and Tashlatora.

Dragonfire Adept is pretty much a 20 level class, I think.

Shifter Druid 8 (After that you go moonspeaker and never look back)

Specialist Wizard 3 (After that you go Master Specialist, because really it's just wizard with class features)

[Tvtyrant]

Warlock 4, for taking 10 on UMD
Warlock 11, (I think) because that's when EB damage progression slows down


Warlock 12 for Imbue Item. It would seem a shame to go 11 levels and then quit when the ability to make any item is just around the corner.

[Bakkan]

Excellent point. I was AFB, I forgot that was at 12.