[PF] Shield Wall Teamwork Feat question

[agentnone]

Can anyone provide a ruling on this for me please? I've done a lot of searching and reading and can't seem to find an answer. Here's the feat description:


Shield Wall (Combat, Teamwork)
You form a unified defense with those around you.

Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.

Benefit: Whenever you are wielding a shield and are adjacent to an ally wielding a shield who also has this feat, the AC bonus from your shield increases, depending on the shield wielded by your ally. If your ally is wielding a buckler or a light shield, your shield bonus increases by +1. If your ally is wielding a heavy shield or a tower shield, your shield bonus increases by +2. You keep these bonuses even if your ally loses his shield bonus due to making a shield bash attack. If an adjacent ally with this feat uses a tower shield to grant total cover, you also benefit if an attack targeting you passes through the edge of the shield (Core Rulebook 153).

My question is, do you get this bonus only once, or does it keep stacking with each adjacent ally that also has the feat. Meaning, if myself and 2 other players all have this feat, and we're all next to each other, do you benefit from each other or only one (the highest bonus)? Thanks.

[SpaceBadger]

I'm not sure what you mean by "does it keep stacking?" It isn't some sort of chain thing, just a benefit from having adjacent allies also trained in Shield Wall fighting. If you have one adjacent ally so trained, you get benefit from him. If you have two adjacent allies so trained, one on each side, then you get benefit from both of them.

Hmm, the description doesn't expressly forbid surrounding yourself with allies all around you, which would all be "adjacent" in combat unless you are using a variant rule for facing, but that isn't how shield walls worked. I'd say you could get benefits from no more than two adjacent allies, which would be one to each "side" (if you had facing in combat).

So if you have four guys w shields, all w Shield Wall feat, lined up as A B C D, then A would get bonus from B; B would get bonus from A and C; C would get bonus from B and D; and D would get bonus only from C.

If the guys aren't standing in a proper shield wall line but just in a big crowd, but w lots of adjacent people trained in Shield Wall, then I guess you could eyeball it to see which two are adjacent in the orientation from which the attack is coming, or just pick two adjacent and not benefit from the rest, as that would be an abuse of the rule and not how a shield wall worked.

[Bhaakon]

Hmm, the description doesn't expressly forbid surrounding yourself with allies all around you, which would all be "adjacent" in combat unless you are using a variant rule for facing, but that isn't how shield walls worked.

Some of them did. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation)

[SpaceBadger]

Some of them did. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation)

But Testudo wouldn't use the Shield Wall feat, it would be more of a cover/concealment thing, wouldn't it? I think this feat is for traditional shield walls, where you get protection from the guys to either side of you, as long as no one breaks formation.

[The Random NPC]

That's kind of what a shield wall is, a wall of shields used for cover/concealment.

[Andreaz]

there's confusion because D20 separates shield from cover when it could be the same thing :p At that point it's up to the DM if that is allowed with feats, if that is 9/10 cover or a crapton of shield bonus stacking.

Also note that formation is cramped. These guys are no way apart from each other by at least 2,5 feet.

[CTrees]

Heh, if you start dealing with flying creatures with shields, you could have a 3x3 cube, with the center creature getting a +52 shield bonus, if the feat is "+1/+2 per ally." What's more is, a single cavalier will provide the feat to all those creatures.

FYI, i think I'd put the feat as a max of +2. Things get silly otherwise (hello Leadership!)

[Cieyrin]

Heh, if you start dealing with flying creatures with shields, you could have a 3x3 cube, with the center creature getting a +52 shield bonus, if the feat is "+1/+2 per ally." What's more is, a single cavalier will provide the feat to all those creatures.

FYI, i think I'd put the feat as a max of +2. Things get silly otherwise (hello Leadership!)

Assuming they're all proficient with shields, as otherwise, if them shields have ACP (like Tower Shields), they're suffering it to everything. Tower Shield's -10 ACP makes you think really hard about that if you want to actually do anything but stand there. In the mean time, you're in Fireball Formation and, since Leadership gives you a bunch of level 1s and 2s, well, you do the math on how likely their to survive even a low level Fireball or two. :smallwink:

As for the feat itself, on the one hand the bonuses are untyped, so they should stack. On the other, their bonuses from the same feat, which don't usually stack unless explicitly noted, so it's rather a DM's call on that front how they want to approach it.