extra attacks in a standard action?

[aza9999]

I'm looking for ways of adding extra attacks during a standard action for my scout/swordsage, especially if they are able to be used with spring attack or in conjunction with a move.

At the moment i'm a human 3/2 scout/swordsage. I may dip 2 levels in ranger, but not planning to take any other classes at this stage, so i'm looking for moves/equipment/feats for those classes only.

The wolf fang strike maneuver from tome of battle lets you make an attack with both weapons as a standard action (with -2 penalty)

The snap-kick feat works, but requires improved unarmed strike

Bounding assault feat works with spring attack, but thats a lot of levels off due to high BAB requirements.

Anyone have any others to add? I'm not looking for things that give an extra attack as part of a full attack action, because i need to move 10 feet to activate skirmish.

[dextercorvia]

Obligatory:

Ways to Get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358)

[aza9999]

Cheers, i've seen that list before and it's got some great stuff for getting full attacks with a move, but i havent been able to find a list of things that give extra attacks for free/swift yet (maybe it's out there and my google-fu is just weak today :smallbiggrin:)

[Douglas]

There aren't very many ways to do this. You'd have better luck looking for ways to move as a free or swift action so you can full attack, and there's a handy list of those right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358). Some of them don't qualify for skirmish, and some of them require circumstances you probably can't rely on, but even after you cross those off there are still a lot left. Of particular note is Travel Devotion combined with a dip in any class that gives Turn Undead - move your speed as a swift action every round for a minute, which should be plenty for most encounters, and do it once per day plus another time per 2 uses of Turn Undead.

[FMArthur]

There is a 2nd-level maneuver called Sudden Leap that will be useful to you. Much moreso than Wolf Fang Strike after you get more than two attacks. Move up to your Jump check as a Swift action. It's one of the reasons I dip Warblade half the time I make a melee character.

[dextercorvia]

The only other things that grant free action attacks require casting, or UMD. Like the spell Cloud of Knives. I think there is another one, but I can't remember the name.

Your best bet though is getting your Movement for free, like douglas said. Travel Devotion is solid. Hidden Talent: Dimension Hop, and some source of PP can keep you covered several times per day.

The alternative to this is Greater Manyshot, which is better on a Swift Hunter due to the BAB requirements, even this will probably require a Fighter dip to meet some of the prereqs before level 10 or so.

[Randomguy]

Two weapon pounce (phb2) lets you attack with two weapons on a charge and dual strike (complete adventurer) lets you attack with 2 weapons as a standard action but with a -4 penalty and a single attack roll.

[Snowbluff]

I think having some natural/secondary (read: biting) weapons would help you get more attacks. :smalltongue:

[Little Brother]

Snap Kick is an obvious choice.

Also, Warblades get a couple of maneuvers(Steel Wind and Mithral Tornado come to mind first) that let you attack multiple opponents. Beyond that, you're stuck with Tiger Claw and all the boosts it comes with.

[aza9999]

There is a 2nd-level maneuver called Sudden Leap that will be useful to you.

Yep, i have been making good use of sudden leap, run in and wolf-fang strike, then sudden leap away.

Next level when i get spring attack i will be alternating between the leap/wolf-strike, and a regular spring attack, so im looking for ways to get extra hits on the spring attack run-through.

Travel devotion is definitely a great feat i want to pick up, but waiting till after i get my ranger levels so i can make good use of twf'ing full attack.

[dextercorvia]

I think having some natural/secondary (read: biting) weapons would help you get more attacks. :smalltongue:

Only on a full attack.

[aza9999]

The downside to most full attacks is that even if you use a movement trick of some sort to move up to the bad guy to activate your skirmish (sudden leap etc) then you're usually stuck standing next to him once you're finished, meaning firstly that when it's their turn they get to go full attack on you, and then on your next attack you're not getting skirmish damage.

I like the hit-n-run guerilla tactics, so that even though in most cases my damage will be less, i'm far away from them when it's their turn.

[dextercorvia]

The downside to most full attacks is that even if you use a movement trick of some sort to move up to the bad guy to activate your skirmish (sudden leap etc) then you're usually stuck standing next to him once you're finished, meaning firstly that when it's their turn they get to go full attack on you, and then on your next attack you're not getting skirmish damage.

I like the hit-n-run guerilla tactics, so that even though in most cases my damage will be less, i'm far away from them when it's their turn.

I would shoot for Greater Manyshot, then.

[Necroticplague]

The downside to most full attacks is that even if you use a movement trick of some sort to move up to the bad guy to activate your skirmish (sudden leap etc) then you're usually stuck standing next to him once you're finished, meaning firstly that when it's their turn they get to go full attack on you, and then on your next attack you're not getting skirmish damage.

I like the hit-n-run guerilla tactics, so that even though in most cases my damage will be less, i'm far away from them when it's their turn.

You could try taking a 5-foot step away then Sudden Leaping over them, thus moving 10ft for skirmish damage (actually, 15 feet, so all you have to do is 5 foot step back and sudden leap into the square you walked out of).

[deuxhero]

You can fake it with methods of getting extra actions (belt of battle, factotum) but otherwise I don't know any.

[Tvtyrant]

Boots of Charging (I believe that is the name) let you charge as a standard action. That combined with pounce means you can get a full attack as a standard action! Only 3/day, but if you are playing as anything but a charger that is plenty.

[dextercorvia]

Boots of Charging (I believe that is the name) let you charge as a standard action. That combined with pounce means you can get a full attack as a standard action! Only 3/day, but if you are playing as anything but a charger that is plenty.

Boots of the Battle Charger, only 2/day, but at 2000gp, you could own a few pairs. Also, if you have a +dex item, you can charge through allies and difficult terrain, when using the boots.

Skirmisher Boots let you make an extra attack when you have moved 10 ft, swift action. 3200gp for 2/day is more than the above, but in line with what the OP originally wanted.

Both are in the MIC.

[kulosle]

I'd say dervish with some extra movement speed. Circle around them to get all of your attacks off and then run away.

[Fable Wright]

Tempo Bloodspike from Magic of Eberron seems like it's what you need here; it doesn't give you an extra attack, but you can use it to take an extra move action. At 150 gp a pop, they might be a little expensive to use in bulk, but they are useful.

[Chronos]

Nobody else has mentioned the Mongoose boosts (Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose)?

[Chronos]

Nobody else has mentioned the Mongoose boosts (Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose)?

[Douglas]

Nobody else has mentioned the Mongoose boosts (Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose)?
You have to full attack to use the attacks those give you, so they don't help with standard action attacking.

[Elric VIII]

Now, I know you asked for ways other than taking class levels, but I hope you don't mind me completely disregarding that. :smallbiggrin:

Since you were already considering Ranger, I think you might be interested in Draon 326. It contains alternate Ranger combat styles. One of them grants Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Stunning Fist. This nets you the prerequisite for Snap Kick. If you don't want Improved Grapple, there's a CoV Ranger sub level that makes your weapons Bane vs favored enemies rather than getting your improved combat style.

Ranger also sets you up for Swift Hunter, which stacks Scout and Ranger for skirmish and allows you to get precision damage on favored enemies, even in they are immune.

[Fable Wright]

You have to full attack to use the attacks those give you, so they don't help with standard action attacking.

Actually, you do not. I checked; nowhere does it require you to take a full attack to use those boosts.

[Douglas]

Actually, you do not. I checked; nowhere does it require you to take a full attack to use those boosts.
It's part of the general combat rules. If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack)

Note that there's a particular distinction of wording here: if the maneuvers had language similar to "as part of this maneuver, make X attacks", then a full attack would not be necessary. The attacks would be part of the swift action used to get them, and would circumvent the general extra attacks rule. This is how Wolf Fang Strike works. As written, however, the Mongoose boosts give you a one turn buff that grants extra attacks, and that invokes the multiple attacks per round rule.

[Chronos]

Huh, I hadn't interpreted it that way, but you may be right.

[Tr011]

A master thrower (Complete Warrior) can make more than one attack via standard action.

[Curmudgeon]

Tempo Bloodspike from Magic of Eberron seems like it's what you need here; it doesn't give you an extra attack, but you can use it to take an extra move action. At 150 gp a pop, they might be a little expensive to use in bulk, but they are useful.
Note that they require drawing and attacking to use, and are limited to one hour thereafter before the move action option expires. You'll lose out on the action economy during an encounter, and may get no benefit if you use one in anticipation of an encounter.

[Darrin]

Snap Kick is an obvious choice.


You can also combine that with Planar Touchstone: Oxyrhynchus to get another attack if your opponent is flat-footed/denied his Dex bonus.

[TroubleBrewing]

What book are the Touchstone feats out of?

[Darrin]

What book are the Touchstone feats out of?

Planar Handbook.

There's also a non-planar Touchstone feat and Touchstone sites in Sandstorm, but unfortunately it didn't really clarify the 250 GP/ritual ingredients/touchstone item confusion (it's not clear if you have to carry the touchstone or sacrifice it as part of the linking ritual).

[aza9999]

It's part of the general combat rules. If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack)

Note that there's a particular distinction of wording here: if the maneuvers had language similar to "as part of this maneuver, make X attacks", then a full attack would not be necessary. The attacks would be part of the swift action used to get them, and would circumvent the general extra attacks rule. This is how Wolf Fang Strike works. As written, however, the Mongoose boosts give you a one turn buff that grants extra attacks, and that invokes the multiple attacks per round rule.


You make a flurry of deadly attacks. After initiating this boost, you can make one additional attack with each weapon you wield (to a maximum of two extra attacks if you wield two or more weapons). These extra attacks are made at your highest attack bonus for each of your respective weapons. All of these attacks must be directed against the same opponent.

I believe the reason for the particular wording is that it is allowing you to make an extra attack with either a single weapon, or two attacks with two weapons, so "make x attacks" wouldnt be suitable.

The maneuver "flashing sun" for example explicitly states that you must take a full attack action to get your extra attack, but the mongoose styles don't, they are significantly higher in level so i believe it is intentional that they simply grant you "one extra attack", otherwise they are no better than the low level flashing sun maneuver for single weapon characters



Flashing sun allows you to make an additional melee attack during this round. As part of this maneuver, you take a full attack action and make your normal melee attacks. However, you can make one additional attack this round at your highest attack bonus. All the attacks you make this round, including the extra attack granted by this maneuver, are made with a –2 penalty

[Draz74]

The maneuver "flashing sun" for example explicitly states that you must take a full attack action to get your extra attack,
This is redundant anyway, since Flashing Sun takes a full-round action to initiate rather than a standard action, and (AFAIK) if you have a full-round action available and can make an attack you can obviously make a full attack too.

So now that we've established that this clause, one way or the other, is either sloppy writing or unnecessary over-clarification, it becomes believable that it is, in fact, included simply because Flashing Sun is a Strike; the same redundant clarification text is left out of the Mongoose maneuvers because they are Boosts. (Even though the clarification would actually be more useful in the Boosts' case, as this debate demonstrates.)


but the mongoose styles don't, they are significantly higher in level so i believe it is intentional that they simply grant you "one extra attack", otherwise they are no better than the low level flashing sun maneuver for single weapon characters

They're still significantly better, actually. For one thing, they don't give you a -2 attack penalty. For another, they can be combined with other Maneuvers that grant full attacks. For example, a mid-level Swordsage can use Dancing Mongoose and Flashing Sun at the same time. Or a high-level Swordsage or Warblade can combine Raging Mongoose with Time Stands Still for utter win.

[Douglas]

I believe the reason for the particular wording is that it is allowing you to make an extra attack with either a single weapon, or two attacks with two weapons, so "make x attacks" wouldnt be suitable.
If that were the case, what's to stop them from saying "make X attacks, with a maximum of Y per weapon, as part of this maneuver"? There is nothing in the "as part of this maneuver" vs "gain additional attacks this turn" wording choice that has any effect on the wording of the other restrictions of the maneuver.


The maneuver "flashing sun" for example explicitly states that you must take a full attack action to get your extra attack, but the mongoose styles don't, they are significantly higher in level so i believe it is intentional that they simply grant you "one extra attack", otherwise they are no better than the low level flashing sun maneuver for single weapon characters
Flashing Sun does not state that you must take a full attack to get the bonus attack, it has a full attack as part of the maneuver's effect. The full attack is a part of the maneuver, not a requirement of the maneuver.

[Averis Vol]

if your all buddy buddy with the party mage you could have him hit you with snakes swiftness (Spell compendium pg. 194) or the mass version (same page) grants you an extra attack/grants the whole party an extra attack. so he could hold the spell till after you finish your attacks or use it if hes after you on the initiative.