[PF] Need Assistance Building a Synthesist

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I was invited by a friend here to join a Pathfinder RP and after deliberating for days about what kind of character I'd play, I finally settled on a Human Summoner using the Synthesist alternate class features from Ultimate Magic.

I've had a look at the Summoner's Handbook from these very forums, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184592). Unfortunately, as the people on the thread told me, the Handbook only really contains solid information on the vanilla Summoner, as it was created when the only information on the class was from the Advanced Player's Guide, before Ultimate Magic was released.

I don't know if there's anything important about building a Synthesist that's different than a regular Summoner, so I beseech and implore the Playground for aid.

I know what I want for the concept of the character and Eidolon:

The character is actually the mortal avatar of some new god, and when he assumes the form of his Eidolon, it's the power of his divine spark growing and bleeding through his mortal shell.

I've rolled up the following stats, but have yet to assign them: 13, 14, 18, 10, 14, 14

In terms of what the Eidolon is, I know I want it to appear like the Cherubim angels from Christian and Jewish mythology: It's bipedal, with the stature and arms of a man, bovine legs, four wings and four faces; one human, one bull, one eagle and one lion. It's also described as resembling living fire and being covered with eyes.

http://www.collectorsquest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/demons_chronicle_cherubim.jpg

The eagle head's on the back.
What evolutions would be needed for an eidolon like this? What stats should go where? What skills should I invest in? Feats? Equipment?

Thank you all for your help and advice in advance. :smallsmile:

[grarrrg]

The character is actually the mortal avatar of some new god, and when he assumes the form of his Eidolon, it's the power of his divine spark growing and bleeding through his mortal shell.

I've rolled up the following stats, but have yet to assign them: 13, 14, 18, 10, 14, 14

Well a Synthesist lets you 'ignore' your physical stats. (mostly).
But you (probably) still need some physicals to qualify for feats and such (Power Attack/Two-weapon Fighting/etc...).
That being said, if you're going straight Synthesist the whole way, then the 18 goes into CHA.
First you need to decide on your Race (one with good mentals would be nice), Aasimar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/monsters-as-pcs#TOC-Aasimar) works both flavor-wise (human+divine), and stat-wise (+2 Wis, +2 Cha)
Half-Elf would be your other good choice, you can put the +2 anywhere you want, and you can use Favored Class bonus to net additional Evolution Points.
I'd probably do this (before racials)
Str 13
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 18


It's bipedal... four wings and four faces; one human, one bull, one eagle and one lion. It's also described as resembling living fire and being covered with eyes.
What evolutions would be needed for an eidolon like this? What stats should go where? What skills should I invest in? Feats? Equipment

Obviously start with a Bipedal Eidolon Base form.
Flight costs 2 evolution points.
You'll need to buy 3 extra Heads at 2 points a piece (actually 4 heads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221870)...).
Living Fire could be done through a combination of Energy Attacks (2 points), and Resistance (1 point) or Immunity (2 points), select Fire of course.
Eyes you will just have to do through 'flavor' (no Evolution for it)
Minimum cost, you're looking at 11 points.

I would argue against the extra heads though. Mechanically, they do NOTHING on their own. They are the ONLY evolution that does NOTHING.
Yes, you can put attacks on them, but Arms tend to be much more efficient.

[togapika]

Extra heads can just be flavor if you'd rather not spend the points. You can get trample or a hoof attack for the bovine feet.

[panaikhan]

I agree that the '4 faces', 'bovine legs','4 wings' (as long as you have them) and 'covered in eyes' can be flavoured away. It does state that the Eidolon can look however the summoner desires (apart from copying a 'real' creature that is).
The Eidolon's HP are considered 'temporary', so you NEED the eidolon healing spells (no-one else can heal it).
The 'extra evolution' feats are a nice idea, the rest hinge on how you like to play. My Synthesist took the 'step up' feat chain, hoping to stay in the bad guy's faces.
Having enlarge/reduce person to hand is nice, and I suggest taking the Large evolution as soon as it lets you, for the stat increase alone.

[stack]

Wings are only fluff at level one, since you can't take fly till 5.

Generally, you need to decide between maxing-out natural attacks, using a big weapon, or using lots of weapons. For the given concept, I would favor taking one large two-hander. A spear works with given proficiencies, though you can use alternate racials if you switch to half-elf (also netting the awesome FC bonus).

The extra evolution feat never hurts if you don't know what to take. Keep 13 in STR for power attack, pump strength, get reach on the arms, take the natural armor evo.

At higher levels you MUST take evolution surge (lesser, greater) and summon eidolon.

At level 1, you have 3 EP (4 w/ extra evolution)
1-reach (arms), for use w/ weapon
1- improved natural armor (+2 AC)
2- (ability score increase +2 STR, if using extra evolution, otherwise any utility evo)

That gives 18 STR, +4 NA, add in spells for another 4 armor, to get 19 at level 1 (23 if you can squeeze in the shield spell).

That is assuming you want to use a weapon, if not, you can grab bite for 1 or improved natural attack for your claws.

Ask the DM if the eidolon's stats will qualify you for feats. If not, put 13 in STR for PA. All high rolls go into mentals, as the rest get overridden.

Traits: ease of faith is nice for getting diplomacy as a class skill, if you want that. Works nice w/ your high CHA.

Feats: power attack when you can. Extra evolution is always good.

Spells: I would start with mage armor and rejuvenate eidolon, pick-up shield when you can. You can get great AC early on w/ shield, mage armor, and natural armor from the eidolon.

Gear: Best weapon you can use (is you use a weapon). Whatever armor you can afford for sleeping in. Eventually get a wand of rejuvenate eidolon. If you don't use a weapon, have a morningstar anyway in case you don't have time to summon your eidolon, though you will be using your summon monster SLA in this case (until you can cast summon eidolon), you will still want a weapon. Maybe scrolls?

[grarrrg]

Can't believe it hasn't been mentioned yet, but UMD!
You have awesome Cha, it's on your skill list. Use Magic Device!


The Eidolon's HP are considered 'temporary', so you NEED the eidolon healing spells (no-one else can heal it).....and I suggest taking the Large evolution as soon as it lets you, for the stat increase alone.

You don't NEED the Eidolon Healing spells, you still have "Fused Link" (if your Eidolon/Temp HP would be brought to 0 you can sacrifice your own HP to keep it at 1). It's mostly only a concern at low levels, when your total hp is still quite low.


Generally, you need to decide between maxing-out natural attacks, using a big weapon, or using lots of weapons. For the given concept, I would favor taking one large two-hander.

You can use a weapon AND natural attacks, but then all Natural attacks are treated as Secondary (-5 to-hit). At low levels when your Bab is still tiny they aren't really worth it, but once you get going they can be a nice damage increase.
Wing Buffet (need Wings first of course), is a quick 1-point for 2 attacks at 1d4.


get reach on the arms, take the natural armor evo.

I've yet to see an official answer on if you can "reach" with Weapons (rules are vague, ask your DM)


At higher levels you MUST take evolution surge (lesser, greater) and summon eidolon.

Agreed. On a related note, do NOT spend Evo-points on the more situational abilities, save those for Surging when needed. Such as "Acid Immunity", generally worthless, but in the right situation, pure gold.


Ask the DM if the eidolon's stats will qualify you for feats. If not, put 13 in STR for PA. All high rolls go into mentals, as the rest get overridden.

He has good enough stats that the 13 can go in STR no problem. But definately ask DM if you can use Eidolon stats to take feats.
Monster Feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats) especially, you'll never qualify for them without your Eidolon. Such as Flyby Attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/flyby-attack), or Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat) (if you grow another pair of arms)

[Pilo]

As a summoner, you can wear and cast spell while wearing a light armor, so dump, mage armor and take a regular armor.

You should consider to take Enlarge and Shield.

[stack]

As a summoner, you can wear and cast spell while wearing a light armor, so dump, mage armor and take a regular armor.

You should consider to take Enlarge and Shield.

Your armor doesn't count when wearing the eidolon, under the more popular (to my knowledge) interpretation. This makes mage armor great. Enlarge is a good idea, can't believe I forgot it.

[panaikhan]

You don't NEED the Eidolon Healing spells, you still have "Fused Link" (if your Eidolon/Temp HP would be brought to 0 you can sacrifice your own HP to keep it at 1). It's mostly only a concern at low levels, when your total hp is still quite low.


Even if you use the 'fused link' (which only kicks in when the eidolon is on 1HP), I'm pretty sure Eidolons don't heal over time (unless you get them killed). I personally think the eidolon healing spells are more efficient (sinse they use D10 instead of cure's D8).

[Wings of Peace]

Your armor doesn't count when wearing the eidolon, under the more popular (to my knowledge) interpretation. This makes mage armor great. Enlarge is a good idea, can't believe I forgot it.

By RAW it's still heavily contested. The reason you'll see many people argue against wearing armor is because of how high a Synthesist in armor can boost their ac and also because the Pathfinder Society has chosen to rule that it doesn't stack. My advice to the OP would be to ask their dm about this part.

[stack]

RAW is indeed contested. I take the (admittedly) dangerous path as saying that armor worn under the eidolon shouldn't have any effect, so it doesn't. I know common sense doesn't mean much in RAW debates, but I suspect many would agree with my interpretation.

I wish Paizo had but together a handy chart for the archetype to squash these questions, though. They had a playtest! This should have been fixed.:smallmad:

[grarrrg]

Even if you use the 'fused link' (which only kicks in when the eidolon is on 1HP), I'm pretty sure Eidolons don't heal over time (unless you get them killed). I personally think the eidolon healing spells are more efficient (sinse they use D10 instead of cure's D8).

New plan.

Take the Level 1 Rejuvenate spell.
At around level 5, trade it out of spells known for something more useful, and buy a Wand of it.
When necessary, buy a better version wand of it.

[stack]

You could ask the DM if he would just let healing spells heal the eidolon normally. The whole temporary HP thing seems like a poor implementation to me. Our DM is reasonable. (I am part of this game, so everyone else knows)

[Pilo]

"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear." (Sources : http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist)

As he can use his gear and as his armor is part of it, a fused synthesist can use his armor.

[panaikhan]

"While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear." As he can use his gear and as his armor is part of it, a fused synthesist can use his armor.

Lots of silly things are available by RAW.
Our GM lets my summoner wear armour, but any Armour Bonus it provides is unavailable while fused. I see the logic in this, as my Small halfling inside the Large wolf-eidolon would be hard-pressed to get his armour struck without it hitting the eidolon first. Non-"armour bonus" enchantments and items still work normally.