Need help building 20th level druid.

[Icestorm245]

Okay, so I'm designing a one shot adventure meant to take place between one or two sessions. All the players are 20th level, though I do not know their classes so they may challenge me as I challenge them. That being said, I want to know the very BEST build for a 20th level druid and how to utililize it properly. I have no experience playing a druid, although I did help make one before for a new player at level 6. There are 4 players, all 20th level. Thanks in advance!

[NOhara24]

Druid with Natural Spell will break the game with zero effort. If you want to spoil everyone else's fun, take Planar Shepard and bond to the plane of Dal Quor. 10 actions per round.

Being a powerful Druid is the easiest thing you can do in D&D. Letting the rest of the party have with a Druid in the party is the hard part.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Being a powerful Druid is the easiest thing you can do in D&D.

Without Planar Shepherd, wizard is better, and possibly cleric (for Miracle).

[Rubik]

Druid with Natural Spell will break the game with zero effort.Not exactly true. It does take some effort, just not that much.

You can suck with wild shape (even with Natural Spell), but only if you don't really use it, or use it badly.


If you want to spoil everyone else's fun, take Planar Shepard and bond to the plane of Dal Quor. 10 actions per round. Absolutely no arguments there. Planar Shepherd is only one of two 1st party PrCs that actually make druids better. In this case, a LOT better. Otherwise, giving up druid or taking ACFs to trade out class features (especially the Big Three -- Casting, Companion, and Wild Shaping) is usually a bad thing.


Being a powerful Druid is the easiest thing you can do in D&D. Letting the rest of the party have with a Druid in the party is the hard part.Druids have a LOT to keep tabs on, so not exactly the easiest, but it IS easier to optimize effectively than with the majority of classes, assuming bookkeeping is something you can keep up with.

[Campbellk8105]

Another great feat, and personal favorite is greenbound summoning. Combined with ashbound summoning, especially at lower levels you will be able to hold a LOT of the enemies off by yourself. Your summons get DR, fast healing, the ability to use entangle at will, wall of thorns 1/day, stay bumps, and other things. I loved it.

Greenbound summoning, IMO, is one of the most horribly powerful feats I've come across. Not just in regards to Druids, but other feats, class based or not. Otherwise craft contingent still takes the cake.

Last campaign I was in, I was Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10. Didn't go for the super super cheese of Dal Quor, but I did super cheese it up with Fernia. Turning into an Efreeti for free wishes? Yes please. Note that the wishes must be used by the party as an Efreeti cannot use it's wish ability of itself.

[NOhara24]

Without Planar Shepherd, wizard is better, and possibly cleric (for Miracle).

Oh, I didn't know I was comparing the three of them. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :smallconfused:

[Rubik]

Another great feat, and personal favorite is greenbound summoning. Combined with ashbound summoning, especially at lower levels you will be able to hold a LOT of the enemies off by yourself. Your summons get DR, fast healing, the ability to use entangle at will, wall of thorns 1/day, stay bumps, and other things. I loved it.

Greenbound summoning, IMO, is one of the most horribly powerful feats I've come across. Not just in regards to Druids, but other feats, class based or not. Otherwise craft contingent still takes the cake.The main problem is that GS turns your summons into plants. Awesome plants, granted, but it makes them unsuitable for most of your other buffing spells ( and bardsong...usually ). But it DOES buff them a lot, meaning you save spell slots. So I suppose if you want to use that feat for general-purpose buffing, then summon animals and such when you need other particular buffs, it could work.

Can you choose to not use Greenbound Summoning?

[Icestorm245]

Alright, so far I got Planar Shepard bound to the plane of Dal Quor... I looked through Faiths of Eberron, but I don't see where it says anything about the powers granted via attuning yourself to certain planes. How does being bound to Dal Quor give you 10 actions a round?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oh, I didn't know I was comparing the three of them. Thanks for clearing that up for me. :smallconfused:

You stated being a powerful druid is the easiest thing there is. That automatically means you're comparing it to other tier 1s.

Oh yeah, I forgot StP erudite.

[Rubik]

You stated being a powerful druid is the easiest thing there is. That automatically means you're comparing it to other tier 1s.

Oh yeah, I forgot StP erudite.I'm pretty sure that the StP erudite is third only to Dal Quor druids and Pun Pun when it comes to 'most broken thing in D&D-Land'. I could be mildly wrong, but I doubt it.

[Lateral]

Alright, so far I got Planar Shepard bound to the plane of Dal Quor... I looked through Faiths of Eberron, but I don't see where it says anything about the powers granted via attuning yourself to certain planes. How does being bound to Dal Quor give you 10 actions a round?

IIRC, you count at all times as being on your bound plane. Dal Quor runs on 10x speed time.

[Icestorm245]

IIRC, you count at all times as being on your bound plane. Dal Quor runs on 10x speed time.

... Holy damn. So I get 10 move actions and standard actions? How was this NOT errated? And where can I look up Dal Quor?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get a 6th level Pearl of Power and a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend. Every other day prepare Energy Immunity (SC) twice, and using the pearl cast it three times, extending each with the rod. On the days in between, every other day, prepare Energy Immunity once and Superior Resistance (SC) once. Cast Superior Resistance and use the pearl to cast Energy Immunity twice, extending each with the rod. Pick a different energy type each time. For the cost of two 6th level spells per day and those two items, the character is continually immune to all five energy types and gets a +6 Resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Get a standard Metamagic Rod of Empower and some Unguent of Timelessness (DMG). Cast Fire Seeds: Berry Bombs, Empowered via the rod, to produce eight berries which can each be detonated for (1d8+20)x1.5. Put the Unguent on each of them so they last about 50 days (365 times longer than normal), and put them in a small pouch. Drop them into the middle of several opponents while in the form of a bird, or have a summoned fire elemental deliver them, and you detonate all eight simultaneously for an average of 294 damage, for just one casting; you could cast it five times and put all the berries together for five times as much damage. Add Fell Drain (LM), cast it twenty times and put one berry from each casting into eight separate pouches, store them in a handy haversack or other extradimensional storage so you only detonate the one that's on your current plane, and a given pouch will deal 735 average damage plus 20 negative levels in a 5-ft. radius. That's all at a caster level of 20, I should have assumed 25 from a Bead of Karma on a Strand of Prayer Beads plus an Orange Prism Ioun Stone, but you get the idea.

Expect a one-level dip into Sacred Exorcist or even (Cloistered) Cleric to use DMM: Persistent. He should stay in the form of a Dire Polar Bear (Frostburn) with Persistent Bite of the Weretiger (SC), Persistent Superior Magic Fang (SC), and Greater Luminous Armor (BoED), with a Monk's Belt (DMG), along with at least Multiattack if not also Improved Multiattack. His AC will be 35+Wis, plus any Deflection, Shield, Luck, etc. bonuses he can muster. Assuming +15 BAB, he'll have a +5 Unarmed Strike at +38/+33/+28, 3d6+25, a secondary +5 Bite at +36, 3d8+15, and two secondary +5 Claws at +36, 2d6+15. He can use Produce Flame (Lesser Rod of Extended, and cast as a swift action with a Circlet of Rapid Casting) to add 1d8+5 fire damage to each of those attacks, and he can Fell Drain that to also add a negative level each time he deals fire damage. His land speed will be 60 ft. with Longstrider in that form, and he should have Persistent Stormrage (SC) with Cloud Wings (SC) for a 70-ft. Fly speed and immunity to wind effects and ranged weapon attacks.

Assuming the worst, he'll also have a Contemplative level for the Spell domain to gain Anyspell and Greater Anyspell. With these, and enough Pearls of Power, he can have quite a few persistent Wizard buffs as well. Expect buffs like Shield, Ray Deflection, Wraithstrike, Greater Mirror Image, Displacement, etc. all on him for 24 hours at a time. If he uses (Cloistered) Cleric instead of Sacred Exorcist, expect the Magic domain with Eternal Wands, expect Cleric 3 for Initiate of Mystra (the Trappings of the Beast set still lets him get Dire Polar Bear form), and run around with a Persistent Antimagic Field which he can simply ignore. He could wear a Starmantle Cloak (BoED) and every weapon that strikes him, including opponents' natural weapons, will be automatically converted into harmless starlight and destroyed with zero chance to resist the effect.

Wall of Thorns is an extremely nasty spell, and with Greenbound Summoning (LEoF) and a Ring of the Beast (CC) he can cast Summon Nature's Ally I to make a Greenbound Dire Bat which can use Wall of Thorns once and Entangle at will at a caster level of 4. He'll have Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, etc. with Extend Spell, plus many other means of crowd control to completely rob opponents of any ability to pose a threat. He'll have melee capability greater than that of any given dedicated melee class, with defensive capability to match against both physical attacks and magic. He'll have multiple spells each of which will be able to kill several opponents in a single hit. He can spontaneously pull a Summon Nature's Ally spell out of nowhere to get a creature which has a special ability that's perfect for solving the current problem. He'll have Bone Talismans (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) with Unguent of Timelessness on them to give him hundreds of available uses of Turn Undead as a >25th level Cleric. He could have a tool to handle any situation you can put him in, and it will only take him a single round to solve it.

Good luck.

[Icestorm245]

Get a 6th level Pearl of Power and a standard Metamagic Rod of Extend. Every other day prepare Energy Immunity (SC) twice, and using the pearl cast it three times, extending each with the rod. On the days in between, every other day, prepare Energy Immunity once and Superior Resistance (SC) once. Cast Superior Resistance and use the pearl to cast Energy Immunity twice, extending each with the rod. Pick a different energy type each time. For the cost of two 6th level spells per day and those two items, the character is continually immune to all five energy types and gets a +6 Resistance bonus to all saving throws.

Get a standard Metamagic Rod of Empower and some Unguent of Timelessness (DMG). Cast Fire Seeds: Berry Bombs, Empowered via the rod, to produce eight berries which can each be detonated for (1d8+20)x1.5. Put the Unguent on each of them so they last about 50 days (365 times longer than normal), and put them in a small pouch. Drop them into the middle of several opponents while in the form of a bird, or have a summoned fire elemental deliver them, and you detonate all eight simultaneously for an average of 294 damage, for just one casting; you could cast it five times and put all the berries together for five times as much damage. Add Fell Drain (LM), cast it twenty times and put one berry from each casting into eight separate pouches, store them in a handy haversack or other extradimensional storage so you only detonate the one that's on your current plane, and a given pouch will deal 735 average damage plus 20 negative levels in a 5-ft. radius. That's all at a caster level of 20, I should have assumed 25 from a Bead of Karma on a Strand of Prayer Beads plus an Orange Prism Ioun Stone, but you get the idea.

Expect a one-level dip into Sacred Exorcist or even (Cloistered) Cleric to use DMM: Persistent. He should stay in the form of a Dire Polar Bear (Frostburn) with Persistent Bite of the Weretiger (SC), Persistent Superior Magic Fang (SC), and Greater Luminous Armor (BoED), with a Monk's Belt (DMG), along with at least Multiattack if not also Improved Multiattack. His AC will be 35+Wis, plus any Deflection, Shield, Luck, etc. bonuses he can muster. Assuming +15 BAB, he'll have a +5 Unarmed Strike at +38/+33/+28, 3d6+25, a secondary +5 Bite at +36, 3d8+15, and two secondary +5 Claws at +36, 2d6+15. He can use Produce Flame (Lesser Rod of Extended, and cast as a swift action with a Circlet of Rapid Casting) to add 1d8+5 fire damage to each of those attacks, and he can Fell Drain that to also add a negative level each time he deals fire damage. His land speed will be 60 ft. with Longstrider in that form, and he should have Persistent Stormrage (SC) with Cloud Wings (SC) for a 70-ft. Fly speed and immunity to wind effects and ranged weapon attacks.

Assuming the worst, he'll also have a Contemplative level for the Spell domain to gain Anyspell and Greater Anyspell. With these, and enough Pearls of Power, he can have quite a few persistent Wizard buffs as well. Expect buffs like Shield, Ray Deflection, Wraithstrike, Greater Mirror Image, Displacement, etc. all on him for 24 hours at a time. If he uses (Cloistered) Cleric instead of Sacred Exorcist, expect the Magic domain with Eternal Wands, expect Cleric 3 for Initiate of Mystra (the Trappings of the Beast set still lets him get Dire Polar Bear form), and run around with a Persistent Antimagic Field which he can simply ignore. He could wear a Starmantle Cloak (BoED) and every weapon that strikes him, including opponents' natural weapons, will be automatically converted into harmless starlight and destroyed with zero chance to resist the effect.

Wall of Thorns is an extremely nasty spell, and with Greenbound Summoning (LEoF) and a Ring of the Beast (CC) he can cast Summon Nature's Ally I to make a Greenbound Dire Bat which can use Wall of Thorns once and Entangle at will at a caster level of 4. He'll have Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, etc. with Extend Spell, plus many other means of crowd control to completely rob opponents of any ability to pose a threat. He'll have melee capability greater than that of any given dedicated melee class, with defensive capability to match against both physical attacks and magic. He'll have multiple spells each of which will be able to kill several opponents in a single hit. He can spontaneously pull a Summon Nature's Ally spell out of nowhere to get a creature which has a special ability that's perfect for solving the current problem. He'll have Bone Talismans (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) with Unguent of Timelessness on them to give him hundreds of available uses of Turn Undead as a >25th level Cleric. He could have a tool to handle any situation you can put him in, and it will only take him a single round to solve it.

Good luck.

Uh... wow, thanks a lot! I don't want to kill my party, just make sure they know that druids can really rock when played right too! I might use the whole Fire bomb idea though. That sounds pretty awesome!

[Rubik]

Uh... wow, thanks a lot! I don't want to kill my party, just make sure they know that druids can really rock when played right too! I might use the whole Fire bomb idea though. That sounds pretty awesome!You can very easily take out an entire party several levels above you if you optimize much and they don't know who you are and what you can do, and prepare against you.

[Urpriest]

While the Dire Polar Bear is nice for melee stats, you may prefer the Dire Tortoise (Sandstorm) for always getting a surprise round. Also at level 20 you have access to Shapechange, so Wild Shape is not as cool as it might have been.

[NOhara24]

You stated being a powerful druid is the easiest thing there is. That automatically means you're comparing it to other tier 1s.

Oh yeah, I forgot StP erudite.

Facepalm.jpg

I used the word "powerful" in the general sense of the word. Not only that, it was a jab at the Druid's baseline power level and ease to optimize vs. other classes. In the vast majority of given parties in D&D 3.5, the Druid will be a strong contributor to the party, regardless of level of optimization. There's already been a pages-long thread on this. End of discussion.

[Campbellk8105]

Also, I do believe a Planar Shepherd Druid is NOT always considered to be on it's chosen plane. He has to use his planar bubble ability to get the cheesy 10:1 time ratio.

This also means, any ally within the bubble also gets the benefit of 10:1 ratio of turn by turn basis.

[Icestorm245]

And the planar bubble ability only functions for as long as you concentrate, but what's the concentration DC? It doesn't have a number or a forumla at all.

[Gavinfoxx]

I sent you a PM of a mostly complete level 18 Druid character document. Good luck!

[sonofzeal]

And the planar bubble ability only functions for as long as you concentrate, but what's the concentration DC? It doesn't have a number or a forumla at all.
Er, it's a duration of "concentration". There's no DC for that unless something distracts you, in which case the source of the distraction determines the DC as usual.

[Icestorm245]

I sent you a PM of a mostly complete level 18 Druid character document. Good luck!

Hey man, thanks a lot! This is exactly what I need to challenge my group. I need to bring him up to level 20, which is fine. :)


Er, it's a duration of "concentration". There's no DC for that unless something distracts you, in which case the source of the distraction determines the DC as usual.

Ah. okay, I was just confused as I never ran into a duration "concentration" spell or abilitiy before. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Randomguy]

Planar Shepherd is only one of two 1st party PrCs that actually make druids better.

What's the second? Arcane Heirophant?

[Gavinfoxx]

Hey man, thanks a lot! This is exactly what I need to challenge my group. I need to bring him up to level 20, which is fine. :)


And finish it! It isn't quite finished!! Also figure out which Shapechange tricks it is using... I forgot to add the Permanencied stuff on... everyone! And there is no magical gear... With Shapechange giving Ex and Su abilities, there is lots of stuff that can be done to give further long duration buffs on the Druid, the Animal Companion, the Wild Cohort, and the Controlled Animal.

[sonofzeal]

Ah. okay, I was just confused as I never ran into a duration "concentration" spell or abilitiy before. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
...you've never run into Mage Hand, Silent Image, Animal Trance, or Contact Other Plane before?

[Gavinfoxx]

Or Detect Magic!

[Icestorm245]

...you've never run into Mage Hand, Silent Image, Animal Trance, or Contact Other Plane before?

Actually... I have never used any of these spells. The only spellcaster I ever used to high levels was a cleric, and even then I only used standard action or swift action spells. Having played D&D for 6 years now and then coming to these fourms to find out I'm lacking in nearly everything I do when I create a character was quite the learning experience. So in the end, I'm still learning this thing called system mastery, but sometimes its more fun to just make a character based on a concept without worrying about optimization.

[Dusk Eclipse]

... Holy damn. So I get 10 move actions and standard actions? How was this NOT errated? And where can I look up Dal Quor?

As with many of the most broken tricks in D&D it was because the designers forgot or didn't know about other designer work and therefore unforeseen synergies arise.

The Loredrake Kobold is one of these for example, I believe (though I don't have way to prove it) that the Designer of the Sovereign Archetypes didn't know that Dragonwrought kobolds arguably cover all the requisites for being a True Dragon and as such didn't think that the Archetypes would be so readily available for players

Dal Quor is explained in the Eberron Campaign setting and probably it is elaborated in Secrets of Sarlona.

[Rubik]

Actually... I have never used any of these spells. The only spellcaster I ever used to high levels was a cleric, and even then I only used standard action or swift action spells. Having played D&D for 6 years now and then coming to these fourms to find out I'm lacking in nearly everything I do when I create a character was quite the learning experience. So in the end, I'm still learning this thing called system mastery, but sometimes its more fun to just make a character based on a concept without worrying about optimization.That's the best time to optimize. You optimize for CONCEPT rather than POWER. You're making sure everything you've got fits as well as you can, and will be effective in your group's campaign without overshadowing everyone else.

Optimization means different things depending on what you're optimizing for.