What happens if you turn a dominate spell?

[Mystify]

Scenario:
Wizard A casts dominate person on Subject B. B, through whatever means, turns the spell back on A. A fails his will save, and dominates himself.

What is the effect of this?

Reading through the spell, it doesn't look like there is any real effects of the spell until a command is given. Hence, the wizard wouldn't have any actual impact from the spell, and continues about his business normally.

If he accidentally gives himself a command(I'm not sure how that would happen), then he has to follow that command to the exclusion of all else, and is exerting the magical compulsion over himself.

However, there is an odd side effect this has. The rules say that if two people try to exert control over a dominated person, they have opposed charisma checks to see who wins. Hence, if sorcerer C attempts to control A, and A fails his save to that, he now gets opposed charisma checks to exert control over himself. Essentially, by dominating themselves, they gain the ability to resist the mind control of others.

Does anyone disagree with my interpretation of what the rules say?

[Ancient Mage]

Or does B now dominate A?

Imagine if a wizard cast a curse on an orc "I curse you foul orcish blackguard!"

The orc is protected by spell turning, and now the curse falls upon the wizard. The curse was intended for the orc, but now curses the wizard, despite the fact that it was designed for the orc.

Wait...I just confused myself. Nevermind.

-Ancient Mage

[Mystify]

Hmm. Spell turning doesn't specify who counts as casting the spell when it is turned, so I assume it is unchanged.

[Urpriest]

Hmm. Spell turning doesn't specify who counts as casting the spell when it is turned, so I assume it is unchanged.

I think there's a FAQ entry or the like about this for Charm Person that specifies that nothing happens. That said, if you're Dominated there's a sense motive check that reveals that fact, so there's one change no matter who's commanding you.

[Mystify]

I think there's a FAQ entry or the like about this for Charm Person that specifies that nothing happens. That said, if you're Dominated there's a sense motive check that reveals that fact, so there's one change no matter who's commanding you.
But where is the fun in that :smallbiggrin:
The sense motive check is interesting... if you did that rule, you could dominate yourself, command yourself to go do something evil, let people make the DC 15 check to see that you are dominated, and explain away your atrocities by the fact you were dominated. The fact that you were dominating yourself doesn't need to be brought up...

[LaughingRogue]

Rightly or Wrongly I know my group has always done it as if the spell had been recast back at the original caster

[Jack_Simth]

Scenario:
Wizard A casts dominate person on Subject B. B, through whatever means, turns the spell back on A. A fails his will save, and dominates himself.

What is the effect of this?

Reading through the spell, it doesn't look like there is any real effects of the spell until a command is given. Hence, the wizard wouldn't have any actual impact from the spell, and continues about his business normally.

If he accidentally gives himself a command(I'm not sure how that would happen), then he has to follow that command to the exclusion of all else, and is exerting the magical compulsion over himself.

However, there is an odd side effect this has. The rules say that if two people try to exert control over a dominated person, they have opposed charisma checks to see who wins. Hence, if sorcerer C attempts to control A, and A fails his save to that, he now gets opposed charisma checks to exert control over himself. Essentially, by dominating themselves, they gain the ability to resist the mind control of others.

Does anyone disagree with my interpretation of what the rules say?
Yes. A Dominated person given a command must attempt to follow it "to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival". Which means he can't spend the action (a Move, specifically) to countermand an order once the order is given to get the opposed Charisma check, and because it requires an action to do so, he'd pretty much need a Readied action to pull off the simultaneous mutually exclusive order needed to actually invoke the Charisma check.

[Mystify]

Yes. A Dominated person given a command must attempt to follow it "to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival". Which means he can't spend the action (a Move, specifically) to countermand an order once the order is given to get the opposed Charisma check, and because it requires an action to do so, he'd pretty much need a Readied action to pull off the simultaneous mutually exclusive order needed to actually invoke the Charisma check.

I would argue that responding to threats is part of day to day survival, and being given a command is a threat.

[supermonkeyjoe]

So what exactly does happen when a wizard dominates himself and gives himself orders? Could this be a form of autohypnosis? :smallbiggrin:

"Come on Bigby, you can do it, you aren't afraid of giving this speech to the assembled mages college"

[NNescio]

So what exactly does happen when a wizard dominates himself and gives himself orders? Could this be a form of autohypnosis? :smallbiggrin:

"Come on Bigby, you can do it, you aren't afraid of giving this speech to the assembled mages college"

Dominate Person Alhamazad's Authoritative Alcoholism Alleviation.

Side effects may include not being taken seriously by people with a modicum of social skills, and unwanted dispels from well-intentioned colleagues.

[Seharvepernfan]

Read the first paragraph of spell turning.

[Keneth]

Erm, you become very assertive? You can successfully practice autohypnosis?

All puns aside, I'm pretty sure turning only changes targets, not the source.