Help with an War-"Bow" and a BFC Shaper

[Dusk Eclipse]

I have a pair of friends that are willing to try RP-ing, me and another friend are more than willing to teach the ropes of the game. The problem is that every time we try my non-rp'ers friend get bored with char generation and we end up doing something else. To this it occurred to me that perhaps if I build myself the characters within their specifications and brought them ready for the session it could be better.

The problem is that they asked me for two characters that I don't really know how to build, one is a ranged Warblade and he wants to use bow and arrow so a Bloodstorm blade is right out, the other wants to play a Shaper psion who specializes in BFC and one strong Astral Construct.

For the War-Bow I was thinking on using these substitution levels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8887672&postcount=11) which allow the use of maneuvers at range and perhaps porting in Deadly Aim (I think) from Pathfinder to give the character a bit more damage potential as he is supposed to be the primary damage dealer. The player also presented interest in being an elf so I suggested an Artic elf (Frostburn) to avoid the Con penalty)

For the Shaper I think my idea of Shaper/Constructor is more than enough to cover the strong Astral Construct; but I don't know what powers other than entangling ectoplasm and wall of energy would serve for a BFC, for the race I was thinking on Kalashtar for the bonus PP and human-likeness.

So any help you could offer? I have access to almost all the 3.5 library, the characters are supposed to be level 5 and we are using 32 point buy for stats.

Thanks in advance.

[Darrin]

If you haven't been through it already:

My notes on Ranged ToB for Warblades. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10296220&postcount=420) And yeah, Snow Elf (Frostburn) is a solid choice for race.

Sorry, can't help with the Psion. XPH is one of my weak areas.

[Jheska]

For the Psion purely from the XPH, here are some suggestions:

Level 1:
Control Light
Astral Construct (grapple, etc)
Grease, Psionic

Level 2:
Control Sound
Detect Hostile Intent (more for not being surprised)
Energy Push/Stun

Level 3:
Dispel Psionics (assuming transparency)
Energy Wall
Psionic Blast
Time Hop
Telekenitic Force/Thrust
Ectoplasmic Cocoon

Level 4:
Wall of Ectoplasm
Telekenetic Manuever
Quinessence (with clever use of bags of holding)

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you haven't been through it already:

My notes on Ranged ToB for Warblades. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10296220&postcount=420) And yeah, Snow Elf (Frostburn) is a solid choice for race.

Sorry, can't help with the Psion. XPH is one of my weak areas.

Thanks for the link, the notes are really solid, do you have any suggestions for feats? I was thinking Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim.


For the Psion purely from the XPH, here are some suggestions:

Level 1:
Control Light
Astral Construct (grapple, etc)
Grease, Psionic

Level 2:
Control Sound
Detect Hostile Intent (more for not being surprised)
Energy Push/Stun

Level 3:
Dispel Psionics (assuming transparency)
Energy Wall
Psionic Blast
Time Hop
Telekenitic Force/Thrust
Ectoplasmic Cocoon

Level 4:
Wall of Ectoplasm
Telekenetic Manuever
Quinessence (with clever use of bags of holding)

Thanks a lot, these will really help me.

[Godskook]

1.How do your friends know enough to request "bow warblade" and "shaper psion" but don't like char-gen? This seems highly fishy to me.

2.Multiclassing Bard(with DFI) with the Warblade is probably going to be your best bet for a decent build, since DFI will provide you with respectable damage.

3.For Shaper Psion, it really just about 90% designing good astral constructs and knowing when to use what.

[Dusk Eclipse]

1: They originally asked for an archer and a someone who used minions to fight, I was the one who suggested War-Bow and Shaper psion. And it is possibly that char generation when we were partially drunk and at 2 in the morning was not the best idea I have had...:smallredface:

2:I will consider a Bardbalde... would Warblade4/Bard 1 be a good start?

3: I guess; but having other options seems to be a good idea.

[Tvtyrant]

All Psions want Overchannel. In the Shapers case, it gets you a a menu B construct at level 7 instead of 8, and a menu C construct at level 12 rather than 14.

[Darrin]

Thanks for the link, the notes are really solid, do you have any suggestions for feats? I was thinking Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim.


Feats for a straight Warblade 20:
1) PB Shot
3) Rapid Shot
5) Improved Initiative
6) Precise Shot*
9) Manyshot, Quickdraw
12) Improved Rapid Shot
13) Iron Will
15) Greater Manyshot
17) Blind-Fight
18) Woodland Archer

* = If the PC can afford to get the Precise property on his bow (or you're nice enough to conveniently "drop" an enchanted bow already enchanted with it), then maybe take Deadly Aim here. Precise Shot aggravates me... it's necessary at low levels for archers, because a -4 penalty on shooting into melee can take an archer from "somewhat useful" to "completely useless" fairly quickly. But a bow with only a +1 enhancement (on top of the first +1) can put this out of the price range of most low-level PCs.

Elf allows you to go into Eternal Blade later, or dip into Cloistered Cleric. If he worships Sehanine Moonbow, then he can take the Elf Domain (PB Shot), Travel Devotion, and Knowledge Devotion. If you dip, might as well pick up a level of Ranger (grab the Trap Expert ACF from Dungeonscape), Barbarian (for Whirling Frenzy), or Fighter. But doing so kind of invalidates the whole reason for taking Elf to get ranged weapon proficiencies.

However, now I'm thinking the ideal race for a straight Warblade 20 is a Dragonblood Tiefling (outsider version), since flight + archery = win. Well, okay, it really means "kiting", but that's basically how you win with archery.

Re: Bardblade: Make sure you take two levels of Bard before you take Warblade 4, since this delays your Initiator Level enough to take a 3rd level stance, such as Tactics of the Wolf. The typical Bardblade is Bard 4/Warblade 16, and you at least get shortbow proficiency via Bard, so Silverbrow Human is the preferred race for that. I'm not sure what the preferred feats would be, but there should be a few sample builds and an Inspire Courage Handbook out there somewhere.

[Daftendirekt]

I should point out that SNOW Elf is the one from Frostburn with no -Con.

Arctic Elf is a variant from UA that just gives some different bonuses. Well, I guess it does get rid of -Con, but it also gives -Str which sucks. Even if you're an archer, you still want STR for a compound bow. Cha is a dump stat.

[Psyren]

All Psions want Overchannel. In the Shapers case, it gets you a a menu B construct at level 7 instead of 8, and a menu C construct at level 12 rather than 14.

Best of all, it's still a 1st-level power no matter how high you augment it, so Talented keeps you from being hurt. (And when you're high enough to stop caring about the damage you can always reform it away.)

[Godskook]

1: They originally asked for an archer and a someone who used minions to fight, I was the one who suggested War-Bow and Shaper psion. And it is possibly that char generation when we were partially drunk and at 2 in the morning was not the best idea I have had...:smallredface:

In that case, you're shooting yourself in the foot as far as War"Bow" goes. The class wasn't designed well with archery in mind, and while it can be jury-rigged, that's not as good of an option as other possibilities.

A swift-hunter, soul-bow cleric or artificer would all make better candidates.


2:I will consider a Bardbalde... would Warblade4/Bard 1 be a good start?

Well, the point of bringing Bard into the build is to get enough bardic music uses to have DFI up every combat. Bard 1 is woefully insufficient for that. Bard 4 is doable while up to Bard 8 is feasible with really losing much of the Warblade feel. I'd start Warblade 1/Bard 4 to start with a 'standard' number of DFI uses and progress Warblade until/unless you notice that 4/day isn't enough anymore. Be sure to use some of the standard IC optimization as well as Sonic damage off your DFI(You can't get Force).


3: I guess; but having other options seems to be a good idea.

Buy and/or craft a significant amount of Dorje, Powerstones, and PP storage. A Dorje of Bestow Power is the most versatile Dorje available, and for powers of 3rd level or higher, its the most cost-efficient consumable for endurance. (It is *NOT* action efficient)