[3.5] UN-optimizing spot checks?

[deuxhero]

How low can you go? 8 before racial modifiers is the lowest a stat can go. Murky Eyed (edit: Inattentive and traits) is legal.

[NeoSeraphi]

Murky-Eyed isn't the flaw that lowers Spot checks, Inattentive is.

Let's see...Okay, so initial 8 in Wisdom, and then I'll pick an orc for my race. Wisdom drops to 6, and I take a -1 penalty on my Spot checks in daylight.

I'll take the Inattentive flaw, put no ranks in it (obviously), and have a build of wizard 5/alienist 2, which drops my Wisdom to 4.

Final penalty at 7th level is -7, -8 in daylight. That's pretty high for a skill with no ACP.

[SilverLeaf167]

I have to ask, why are you doing this?
:smallconfused:
Seems interesting.

Do note that Murky-Eyed doesn't affect Spot in any way.
On the other hand... from traits, you can get Absent-Minded (-1), Focused (-1) and Nearsighted (-1). From flaws: Inattentive (-4) and Pathetic (-2 to Wisdom = -1 to Spot).
For your race, pick Derro for -6 to Wisdom (-3 to Spot).

That's a total of -11 to Spot from traits, flaws and race only. If you started at Wisdom 8, you have -12. I bet there are many ways to get it even lower, but I'm too lazy to look for them right now.

Or, you could just get touched by a an allip a couple times, and ta-dah! You're in a coma! You ain't Spotting squat for a while! :smallwink:

[NeoSeraphi]

Dang, Silverleaf has me beat. Though if you take alienist on top of that, you can actually drop your Wisdom score to its minimum of 1, and raise the penalty to -11 (assuming Silverleaf's build caps at -10 since you can't have more than 2 traits in most games)

[Yora]

Always keep your eyes close, you never even get to make Spot checks.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Won't work if you're just looking for the largest penalty, but being blind (with no replacement sight) makes you auto-fail spot checks.

Gah, swordsage'd.

[SilverLeaf167]

Dang, Silverleaf has me beat. Though if you take alienist on top of that, you can actually drop your Wisdom score to its minimum of 1, and raise the penalty to -11 (assuming Silverleaf's build caps at -10 since you can't have more than 2 traits in most games)
Yeah, my build assumes you can take as many flaws and traits as you want, for purposes of theoretical unoptimization :D

Another way of course is to just drink a lot, all the time, for temporary Wisdom damage...

[deuxhero]

I have to ask, why are you doing this?
:smallconfused:
Seems interesting.



I told someone on another forum their blind ignorance went far beyond failing a spot check.

[SilverLeaf167]

I told someone on another forum their blind ignorance went far beyond failing a spot check.

Oh, ok then, sure, backing up your insults mixed together with RPG references is indeed a most noble cause :smallcool:

If it's just about having a total, one-time penalty as large as possible, you can nerf the check to infinity and beyond (not literally) with distance modifiers, -1 per 10 feet. So someone with my build, trying to spot something from 1000 feet, for example, would have a Spot modifier of -112. Stack on "spotter distraction" for -117, and bad visibility for Pelor knows how much.

[deuxhero]

Yeah, but the point would have been right in his face, so distance isn't appropriate.

[Slipperychicken]

Status effects and drop it lower. Sickened and Shaken add -4. Fascinated is another -4 for reactions. Ability Damage/Drain down to 1, for a -4 stat. Distracted is -5.

So that's -17 so far.

[deuxhero]

Can't a sleeping character still make spot checks at a heavy penalty?

[Shadowleaf]

Can't a sleeping character still make spot checks at a heavy penalty?I think you're thinking of Listen checks, which can be made at a -10 penalty while sleeping.

[kardar233]

Pretty sure there's an Abyssal Heritor feat that gives you a penalty to Spot in exchange for something else.

[sreservoir]

Pretty sure there's an Abyssal Heritor feat that gives you a penalty to Spot in exchange for something else.

precognitive visions imposes a -2 to spot.

it requires 13 wisdom.

[NeoSeraphi]

precognitive visions imposes a -2 to spot.

it requires 13 wisdom.

Whaaaaaaaaat? It penalizes Spot, but requires you have a decent Wisdom score? Tsk tsk. That's no good!

[Golden Ladybug]

There are Items that reduces Spot; I remember a pair of Tinted Goggles that negated penalties for creatures with Light Sensitivity, but for anything without Low-Light Vision or Darkvision, imposed a -2 penalty to Spot and Search.

I think its from the MiC?

[Gotterdammerung]

leapfrogging off of silverleaf's suggestion, you can add the madness domain for a -1. And a willing deformity + deformity (eyes) gives us another -2

So you can get -14 at first lvl cleric.

if you also take NeoSeraph's suggestion you end up at -15 total at a higher lvl.

I couldn't find the goggles.

There is also some cursed items that will add to this on a failed save.

And bestow curse can lower it some more.

[Ajadea]

Don't forget Magic Blooded for another -2 to wisdom! -15 at 1st level derro cleric.

[SamBurke]

How low can you go? 8 before racial modifiers is the lowest a stat can go. Murky Eyed (edit: Inattentive and traits) is legal.

Be blind. Negative infinity.

[Eisenfavl]

Bestow Greater Curse can give you a -8 to all saves, checks, and attack rolls, or something along those lines.

[Elemental]

Well, if you're lazy like me and want an annoying adversary, you could always have yourself plagued by some kind of spectral illusionist. That would make it very hard to spot things. Well, things that are real anyway...

[Greenish]

There are Items that reduces Spot; I remember a pair of Tinted Goggles that negated penalties for creatures with Light Sensitivity, but for anything without Low-Light Vision or Darkvision, imposed a -2 penalty to Spot and Search.

I think its from the MiC?Sundark Goggles from Races of the Dragon give -2 to spot and search checks if you don't have darkvision.

Shaders from Races of Eberron give -1 to spot.


[Edit]: Both are non-magical (and dirt-cheap), so you might be able to wear both…

[Tr011]

If Wisdom isn't 1 already... There's a cursed Periaph of Wisdom, that gives -4(?) to Wisdom. Also you can use those sundark goggles for -2 to spot checks.

[Gotterdammerung]

so -18 at first lvl then.

There is also cyclops from dragon magazine -2 for only having one eye. Derro is easier to pull off. But a cursed item magic blooded cyclops will be a 2 wisdom and have a -19 spot. If you can figure out a way to get the cyclops to 1 wis it will be -20.

[Thurbane]

Derro works OK for an NPC, but only "Sane" derro are a playable race, and lose the -6 penalty to Wisdom.

The vile feat, Deformity (madness) imposes a -4 profane penalty to WIS. You can get it as a bonus feat by worshipping an elder evil, but has a req of Willing Deformity.

If you are under the influence of a Vestige, and keep ignoring it's wishes, you keep getting -1 (cumulative) penalties to checks (and attack rolls and saves) until the Vestige leaves you.