Opinions on my gestalt?

[Reprimand]

I wasn't going for anything incredibly OP but I was planning on running this character in a gestalt game. We're a fairly Low optimization group and we tend to stick to core but go ahead and tell me what you think (All the stats we're rolled in a 5d6b3 you get two sets just in case you got a bad few).

Lenya
Medium Humanoid (Elf), Fighter 12/Rogue 12
Hit Dice: 12d10+24 (94 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 40'
Armor Class: 28 (+6 dex, +8 arm, +2 nat, +2 def ), touch 18, flatfooted 28
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+15
Attack: +20 Barbed Dagger +22 melee (1d4+7(9 on SA) 19-20 x2)
Full Attack: x2 +2 Barbed Dagger +20/+20/+15/+15/+10 melee
(1d4+7(9 on SA) 19-20 x2)
Space/Reach: 5'/5'
Special Qualities: Elf Traits, Fast trait, Sneak Attack +6d6, Trapfinding, Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Penetrating Strike (Dungeonscape), Crippling Strike.
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +16, Will +8 (+10 vs Enchantment)
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 22 (20 base), Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 14
Skills: Balance +18(10), Bluff +10(8) Climb +13(10), Diplomacy +6(0),
Gather Info +10(8) Hide +13(8) Intimidate +4(0),
Jump +19(13) Know: Arcana +9(5), Know: Local +14(8) Listen +11(8)
Move Silently +13(8) Search +14(8) Sleight of Hand +15(8)
Sense Motive +11(8) Spellcraft +10(6) Spot +11(8), Tumble +23(15), Use Magic Device +17(15)
Skill Tricks: Acrobatic Backstab, Back on Your Feet, Hidden Blade, Tumbling Crawl.
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Barbed Dagger1st, QuickdrawF1, Weapon FinesseF2, Two Weapon Fighting3rd, Weapon Focus: DaggersF4, Combat Acrobat6th, Improved Two Weapon FightingF6, Weapon Specialization: DaggersF8, Arterial Strike9th, Power AttackF10, Melee Weapon Mastery12th, Improved OverrunF12.
Alignment: CG
Language: Common, Elven, Slyvan, Undercommon, Auran, Aquan, Draconic.
Equipment: 4,980gp, +3 Mithril Breastplate, x2 Alchemical Silver +2 Barbed Daggers, +3 Cloak of Resistance, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +2 Gloves of Dexterity, +2 Ring of Protection, Bag of Holding 4, 15,000gp Primal Essence.

The reason I took power attack and Improved overrun was for the party synergy. We have a destroyer barbarian/fighter (Lion totem and 2h weapons). I usually win initiative and overrun a threatening damage dealer (Usually a spellcaster or roguish type) causing them to fall prone. I stop right on the other side of them so when he pounces with power attack/shock trooper he gets flanking bonuses+charging bonuses with rage on top of that. If their aren't dropped after that I usually get an AoO when they try to get up thus getting sneak attack damage and dealing strength damage, etc.

I'm also not just restricted to just daggers since I took melee weapon mastery so I can use any piercing or slashing weapon as if I had weapon focus/specialization.

The rest of the party is an int based monk(some feat he took)/duskblade

And a Cloistered Cleric of Wee Jas/Generalist Wizard, Since he took the magic domain so he has an effective wizard level of 18 for activating magic items.

It might not be the best set up but we each have our own unique combos to bring to the table.

Feel free to critique and discuss and you all feel necessary, I'll be here most of the night.

[Manateee]

Well, it's a low-powered gestalt and that's probably not news, so I'll just skip past that.

You have a number of feats going to abilities that are either questionable or replaceable with small amounts of gold.

For instance, Quickdraw and Weapon Finesse can be replaced by Least Augment crystals of Calling (300 gp/weapon) and Feycraft weapons (the price of which I can't recall off my head, but they're pretty cheap as well).

And then you have a bunch of feats tied up in small attack and damage bonuses. Barbed Daggers are shortswords with +/- 1 damage, circumstantially. That's only questionably worthwhile without using a feat for proficiency. Then there's the Weapon Mastery line - which is totally worthwhile if you're using the ranged version for triple weapon distance - but which compares unfavorably with the likes of Shadow Blade (+6 damage in one feat), Craven (+12 damage in one feat, but with some potentially unfavorable baggage) or Knowledge Devotion (+3 to +5 attack and damage with some minor investment).

Arterial Strike requires your target to survive 4 rounds of your attack to pay out over the extra SA die, and it doesn't benefit from Penetrating Strike. It's another option that's pretty bad even without the feat spent.

And the Overrun thing is just a bad idea. Even zapping the enemy with a grease spell will probably see better results (you deny dex with no save, and maybe knock them down the same way you're trying anyway). But if you're hooked on it for style points, more power to you, I guess.

One thing you'll probably want to cover up is that Will save. The resolute Fighter ACF in Complete Champion lets you add half your BA to Will as an immediate action. Since you don't seem to have a whole lot going with AoOs, that's a +6 Will right now that will only scale higher.

Since it looks like you're largely trying to play a support role, you might want to swap some feats for support. Staggering Strike from CAdv is a godsend for melee sneak attackers. Throat Punch from CScoundrel is a pretty powerful debuff on casters, assuming your game is low-enough Op that you can hit them.

...

I know I sound down on this, but I do like the general style. If I were building it, I'd probably swap big chunks of the fighter side out to either direct this toward a ranged throwing build using Master Thrower and Bloodstorm Blade or to really embrace melee with some combination of Street Fighter Ferocity (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=urban%20class%20features&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wizards.com%2Fdefault.asp%3Fx %3Ddnd%2Fwe%2F20070228a&ei=JjsWT_q2EaeZiQLM7tTNDw&usg=AFQjCNHwVlV5bG9MKWCw5wHc6L7TlQJUTw&cad=rja) Barbarian and the Wildrunner from Races of the Wild. (I'd also prefer to Psych up the rogue, but that's pretty dramatically out of line here.)

[HunterOfJello]

Minimum Change Suggestion:

1. Drop at least 2 levels of Fighter and grab some levels in Barbarian. The Extra Rage feat along with 1 level of Barbarian will give you Rage 3/day.

2. Take the ACF called Disruptive Attack from PHB2 in the Expanded Classes (Rogue) section. You lose Uncanny Dodge and gain the ability to forgo your sneak attack damage on a target in order to give them -5 AC for 1 round after hitting them in melee. This can be a very useful tool in helping allies out, making sure everyone hits an enemy, and gives you an option against enemies that are immune to sneak attack damage. (The ability explicitly states that it works against enemies that are immune to SA damage.)

Heavy Change Suggestions:

-Give us an idea of what kind of character you'd like to play, what parts of this current character are important to you, and what books are allowed. If you'd like to play a badass character then let us help! :smallbiggrin:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

With such a high Int score, you should definitely consider switching three of the Fighter levels for Swashbuckler, and another for an Exotic Weapon Master dip for Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting. Consider the Arcane Stunt ACF in CM for Swashbuckler, a swift action Spider Climb or Expeditious Retreat usable 5/day will really come in handy. Also, get some free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Furthermore, Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) is superior to PHB Rogue just because you can get Hide in Plain Sight with it, so take that into consideration.

I'd get two Barbed Daggers of Subtlety (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#swordofSubtlety) and just cut back on everything else to afford them. Definitely consider a +1 Animated Shield and a Necklace of Adaptation as well. Get those spellcasters to cast Greater/Superior Resistance on the party every day, so everyone gets a +3 all day for a 4th level spell. They should also be putting Greater Magic Weapon on everyone's pointy sticks to make them +3, buy a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend for them to use so they'll last 24 hours instead of 12.

[Reprimand]

1. How can I get barbed daggers up subtlety? I thought it was a specific item and therefore can't be remade as another item?

2. Taking levels in swashbuckler or barbarian wouldn't fit into her story as she has no Background as a duelist or sailor and certainly isn't a raging death-seeking barbarian.

3. Why is overrun a bad idea? I can understand the wasted feat from power attack being a problem but why is overrun itself bad?

4. Arterial Strike for for things I can't kill in one round slowing building up a DOT to counter fast healing and the like.

5. How to weapon crystals work? I think I've heard of them but I've never used them and I don't own the book (What are they from?).

[Helldog]

2. Taking levels in swashbuckler or barbarian wouldn't fit into her story as she has no Background as a duelist or sailor and certainly isn't a raging death-seeking barbarian.
And what has Swashbuckler and Barbarian to do with it? They're just classes. :smallconfused:

[Manateee]

2. Taking levels in swashbuckler or barbarian wouldn't fit into her story as she has no Background as a duelist or sailor and certainly isn't a raging death-seeking barbarian.The PHB recommends changing classes to match concepts. If the Barbarian losing control for bonuses in combat doesn't make sense, turn it into a lawful class called the Meditant or something that gets those bonuses from its singleminded focus on the battle. Or swap the Ferocity ability onto a class where it's a better fit to the flavor text - as a replacement for the level 1 feat on the Fighter or something. You're supposed to be able to shift this stuff around, per the "Description" section of the basic rulebook.

Anyway, if these things are going to be an obstacle, could we get your character's one-sentence pitch?


3. Why is overrun a bad idea? I can understand the wasted feat from power attack being a problem but why is overrun itself bad?It's a standard action for the possibility of costing your enemy a move action. Plus it's unreliable, forces you to move adjacent to targets (triggering AoOs, if your opponent is crafty enough to use the terrain) and comes with the opportunity cost of attack actions.


4. Arterial Strike for for things I can't kill in one round slowing building up a DOT to counter fast healing and the like.It's 1 damage a round that costs 3.5 damage. If you're attacking someone, they generally shouldn't be standing after the third round. The only way Arterial Strike could be worth using is if you're using a poor build/tactics.


5. How to weapon crystals work? I think I've heard of them but I've never used them and I don't own the book (What are they from?).They're in the Magic Item Compendium. Basically, they're small inexpensive magic items that confer marginal benefits to specific weapons or armor. The power of weapon crystal is limited by the numeric bonus of the weapon, but I'm only talking about the "Least" weapon crystal, which works on anything Masterwork or better.

[Reprimand]

Anyway, if these things are going to be an obstacle, could we get your character's one-sentence pitch?

Raised by a clan wild elves despite coming from a human city. Calm and dexterous fighter trained by her foster father to be a warrior and trained by her foster mother in more 'finer' arts. Having been raised in a forest and having no memory of her life in the city or of her true parents she has no reason to be able to take swashbuckler levels. Barbarian levels would make sense but her personality is more refined and calm.

I like for my classes to make sense in a background, You don't see many desert elf swashbucklers do you? And why? Because they live in a freaking DESERT hence no water, no sailing, no swashbuckling.

I was planning on taking dervish levels eventually and retraining her proficiency/Focus/Specialization feats to kukris or scimitars. and taking improved critical.

[gkathellar]

Raised by a clan wild elves despite coming from a human city. Calm and dexterous fighter trained by her foster father to be a warrior and trained by her foster mother in more 'finer' arts. Having been raised in a forest and having no memory of her life in the city or of her true parents she has no reason to be able to take swashbuckler levels.

Emphasis mine. This is basically the entire definition of swashbuckler. You don't need to be from a city, or be a sailor, or a duelist. You need to be a dexterous fighter who uses their head in a fight and, at higher levels, knows how to make lucky work for them.

So yeah, I'd second taking a mix of swashbuckler, fighter and rogue. If you have access to Complete Scoundrel, Daring Outlaw and Daring Warrior will cap that off, melding all your classes together to some extent. Since you're a TWF-er, if you have PHB2 Shield of Blades is a good ACF for the swashbuckler.

[Reprimand]

One problem, in our gestalt game, multi-classing feats only apply to one side of the gestalt.

How would I make that work for me the best then?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1. How can I get barbed daggers up subtlety? I thought it was a specific item and therefore can't be remade as another item?

2. Taking levels in swashbuckler or barbarian wouldn't fit into her story as she has no Background as a duelist or sailor and certainly isn't a raging death-seeking barbarian.

1. From the DMG page 226, also in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#specificWeapons), emphasis mine:

Specific Weapons
The following specific weapons usually are preconstructed with exactly the qualities described here.
What type of weapon you enchant as a specific weapon, or what exact properties that weapon has, are not set in stone. The standard Sword of Subtlety is a +1 Shortsword with that special property; it could instead be a +1 Shortsword sized for a tiny creature that was constructed specifically for a famous fey assassin. There's little difference between putting that on a smaller or larger shortsword, or putting it on a dagger, or even a barbed dagger. Or you could even make it a +2 Shortsword with that property, or a +1 Speed Shortsword with that property, though pricing for Subtlety itself would have to be determined (probably a flat +20,000 gp).

2. Play as a dextrous warrior who uses his head, stick to Rogue on one side and go Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 8/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Fighter+ on the other side. Pick up Daring Warrior so you can eventually get Weapon Supremacy, if you get to that level. If you don't expect to ever reach level 20, skip Daring Warrior and get the Arcane Stunt ACF in CM, easily explained because Elves always get some sort of training in magic during their youth.