Balance issues for a 1st level party.

[Dark Kerman]

Hey, I'm a new dm, about to start out with a campaign, and i'm going to have my PC's fight a number of grimlocks. I know they are CR 1, but due to how CR can be somewhat unreliable, does anyone know how suitable they are, and how many a group could feasibly take on?

Thanks for your time.
Dark Kerman.

[Saph]

Like most humanoids, it depends a lot on how they're equipped. The stock Grimlock in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm) comes with no armour and a mediocre weapon, making them a relatively easy CR 1 encounter - the party Fighter has a good chance of beating one solo. A team of four average 1st-level adventurers can probably take out 2 grimlocks without too much trouble. 3-4 grimlocks would be a tough, loseable fight, and by the time you get to 5+ it's getting very dangerous (though a good party could still win).

If you give the grimlocks two-handed weapons and some armour, they become much much tougher. A grimlock with a two-handed sword and a chain shirt has 19 AC and does about 10 damage on a hit, enough to one-shot many 1st-level PCs. This is my idea of a challenging CR 1 encounter. I wouldn't send more than about 2 of these at the PCs.

The main special ability grimlocks have is their blindsight, and situations where blindsight becomes an issue are when grimlocks become really dangerous (the PCs have to fight them in fog, magical darkness, a sleet storm, underground with no lights, etc). In these situations a single grimlock is a difficult CR 1 encounter all on its own, unless the PCs have some way of seeing in the dark as well.

[ericgrau]

They seem to have the same AC and damage as other CR 1 things, so I don't see the issue. CR 1 means EL 1 means 1 should be a routine fight for a level 1 party. 2x CR 1 is EL 3 (party level + 2) which is a difficult fight, 4 is EL 5 (party level + 4) which is an overwhelming fight.

More specifically they seem to do about 7.5 damage and hit 50% of the time against a decently armored foe. 75% against the mage, 25% against unusually high armor. Likewise every other hit against them may miss and they have 11 HP. So I'd expect about 3 swings from party fighter(s) to take it down, and in 2 rounds it might bring one low HP PC to the negatives. i.e., a minor threat to 1 PC makes a single grimlock a routine fight with only a little risk; That's what EL = party level means. 2 (EL 3) might incapacitate a couple PCs or maybe even kill 1 if they're lucky and focus on one weak guy, 4 (EL 5) is a potential TPK.

As Saph pointed out playing to their strengths makes the fight more difficult but more interesting. A fog could make it interesting but only if you know the rules for fog & fighting blind really well so the PCs can use them extensively rather than sitting on their hands as they put up with their deaths 1 by 1.

Shorter answer: Send 2 grimlocks, or 1 grimlock in a fog if you're extremely experienced.

[Tyndmyr]

Hey, I'm a new dm, about to start out with a campaign, and i'm going to have my PC's fight a number of grimlocks. I know they are CR 1, but due to how CR can be somewhat unreliable, does anyone know how suitable they are, and how many a group could feasibly take on?

Thanks for your time.
Dark Kerman.

4 players vs a single CR 1 grimlock is a CR 1 fight. Two grimlocks? CR 3. Tough, doable. Four grimlocks? Ok, now this is a CR 5 fight, and it's pretty nasty. PCs might well die off with bad luck.

I suggest that if you have a large number of grimlocks that have to be involved, have them spread out, in situations where they can be isolated, or otherwise place them in a situational weakness(have to collect weapons before fighting, etc).

[HunterOfJello]

When first starting a campaign experiment and see how your party reacts to different types of encounters. Where they have difficultly or problems is definitely worth noting in the future so that you can have them overwhelmed, but not overkilled.

If you think a grimlock is too strong/weak then modify the number that they first encounter and put it alongside some weaker enemies.


You should also make mention of them being led by a powerful construct that is as tall as 5 humans and has an immensely powerful jaw that can rip other creatures apart.

[Chronos]

When a monster is CR 1, that means that a single one of those monsters is considered an appropriate, ordinary encounter for a party of 1st-level characters (likewise, a single CR 10 is an appropriate encounter for a 10th-level party, etc.). Multiple creatures of a given CR is effectively a higher CR encounter.

Now, you can occasionally throw higher-CR encounters at a party, but when you do, it should be something special, something really significant to the adventure storyline. And it's an especially bad idea to do so against a first-level party, for a couple of reasons. First of all, 1st-level characters are fragile enough as it is: If a high-level party accidentally faces something a bit tougher than it should be, it probably just means they have to rest a little more than they'd planned for, but a 1st-level party, even with a supposedly "fair" encounter, already has a pretty good chance of folks dying. And secondly, once you and the players have had some experience with a set of characters, you start to get a good understanding for just how good they are, what are their strengths and weaknesses, and so on, but first-level characters are brand-new, and you don't really know exactly what they can handle. So I would recommend lowballing the encounters until you get a better feel for it.

[Dark Kerman]

Thanks! I think i'll have a few spaced out, with dogs to bulk out the numbers. :smalltongue: