Thought Experiment: Statting Planeswalkers

[Rhaegar14]

So I was poking around some of the new Dark Ascension images last night when suddenly I got to thinking about how I would try to stat some of the Planeswalkers from Magic: The Gathering. I know that 90, if not 100% of them would have Conjurer Wizard (maaaaaaaybe Sorcerer) as their base class, but what more specific things would you do for them?

For instance, I see Chandra as a Fire Savant with, you guessed it, a ton of blasty fire spells. The most effective route op-wise? No, but it fits her pretty well.

One of the more interesting ones, imo, is Garruk, because normally I'd stat him up as a Druid and be done with it. But Druids don't have the spells to do the planeswalking part of being a Planeswalker.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[NeoSeraphi]

I admit that I haven't read the books, but just looking at the art for Chandra Ablaze screams "SORCERER" to me. (I'm being literal here, the art is actually screaming at me)

Tezzeret the Seeker is probably an artificer with a staff of planeshift.

Ajani is secretly a rakshasa, I just know it. He acts all good and dishing out +1/+1s with vigilance, but piss him off and he starts throwing around fireballs and breaking your lands.

[HunterOfJello]

I'm not entirely familiar with what the planeswalker can and cannot do. I've seen some very badass pictures of them, so I am interested in this.

The Spontaneous Summoner feat from Complete Divine could help out any non-Druid divine casters who would like the ability to use Summon Nature's Ally multiple times per day without preparing it. It's definitely one of my favorite feats and goes great in Archivist builds imo.

Clerics can get access to the same feat if they take the Animal domain. The Animal domain isn't top notch, but does work pretty well in animal environments and has the very delicious capstone of Shapechange.

A few summoning classes:

Druid
Wizard (+ Conjurer)
Archivist
Cleric
Spell-to-Power Erudite
Spirit Shaman
Favored Soul
Binder (limited, but at high level it can summon like a boss)
Rainbow Warsnake

If some special tactics and PrC usage is applied, then any 9th level spell casting class can gain the Spontaneous Summoner feat and/or the Arcane Disciple feat in order to be a decent summoner. This includes the Warmage (Rainbow Warsnake or not), Beguiler, Dread Necro, etc.

[Chronos]

Ajani is secretly a rakshasa, I just know it. He acts all good and dishing out +1/+1s with vigilance, but piss him off and he starts throwing around fireballs and breaking your lands. Well, he is part red in some versions.

[Rhaegar14]

I'm not entirely familiar with what the planeswalker can and cannot do. I've seen some very badass pictures of them, so I am interested in this.

The Spontaneous Summoner feat from Complete Divine could help out any non-Druid divine casters who would like the ability to use Summon Nature's Ally multiple times per day without preparing it. It's definitely one of my favorite feats and goes great in Archivist builds imo.

Clerics can get access to the same feat if they take the Animal domain. The Animal domain isn't top notch, but does work pretty well in animal environments and has the very delicious capstone of Shapechange.

A few summoning classes:

Druid
Wizard (+ Conjurer)
Archivist
Cleric
Spell-to-Power Erudite
Spirit Shaman
Favored Soul
Binder (limited, but at high level it can summon like a boss)
Rainbow Warsnake

If some special tactics and PrC usage is applied, then any 9th level spell casting class can gain the Spontaneous Summoner feat and/or the Arcane Disciple feat in order to be a decent summoner. This includes the Warmage (Rainbow Warsnake or not), Beguiler, Dread Necro, etc.

The summoning is not the issue I meant with Garruk, although I applaud the attempt at solving it hahaha. The issue is that they literally walk the various worlds/planes, and Druids don't get Plane Shift on their spell list.

Anyone object to Bolas being a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, since that's pretty much exactly what he is? XD

[NeoSeraphi]

Well, he is part red in some versions.

That is what I was referring to, yes (http://www.cardkingdom.com/catalog/item/185574).

[HunterOfJello]

The summoning is not the issue I meant with Garruk, although I applaud the attempt at solving it hahaha. The issue is that they literally walk the various worlds/planes, and Druids don't get Plane Shift on their spell list.

Anyone object to Bolas being a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon, since that's pretty much exactly what he is? XD

Just give them items to do that.

Rope of Crossing from the Planar Handbook allows travel through the Outer Planes. I'm sure there are other simple, yet expensive, items that allow the same things.

Or make the Druid take 4 frightening levels in the godliness that is the Planar Shephard.

[Dralnu]

Garruk: Druid with high physical stats. He can wildshape into magical beasts (variant, PrC?) and likes summoning a handful of dire boars. I'd peg him around level 10-14.

Chandra: Sorcerer that loves blasting with fire spells. Very simple. Probably has energy substitution (fire). Also around level 10-14.

Jace: Illusion-specialist wizard. Loves his illusions, divinations, and some enchantment. Pulls off neat tricks but doesn't snap the campaign yet. Around 10-14?

Ajani: Tougher for me. He's got at least one barbarian level but he's not the best fighter. He's an amazing buffer. He's prone to flipping out and killing stuff. Mostly cleric with some barbarian?

Bolas: Strongest known planeswalker if I recall correctly. Dragon. Should be epic or approaching it.

[NeoSeraphi]

Liliana Vess is a vampiric specialist necromancer with the Ability Focus (Dominate) feat.

[Feralventas]

Can't say I know Ajani or Garruk well enough to stat them, and Chandra as a Sorcerer with a fire focus (maybe into Elemental Savant eventually) sounds fine. I'd argue that Jace would be better represented by a psion (Telepath). IIRC he was more apt at thought-reading and mind/perception altering effects which if anything fall more under Divination than enchantment/illusion, but are solidly in the purview of the Telepathy discipline.

As for Bolas, dragons naturally get sorcerer spells, and Great Wyrm would work fine, but he's also well studied, well read, and just as sly as he is charismatic; I'd toss in a few levels of Wizard and Ultimate Magus (draconic sorcery for the spontaneous requirement).

Tossing out one I haven't seen yet, Urza, epic level Artifacer/Sorcerer with every crafting feat he could get his hands on.

[Aron Times]

Jace: Illusion-specialist wizard. Loves his illusions, divinations, and some enchantment. Pulls off neat tricks but doesn't snap the campaign yet. Around 10-14?

Um, Jace the Mind Sculptor was a mandatory 4-of in each format he was legal, and the fandom rejoiced when he was banned from most formats, so Jace did break the campaign.

[Mezmote]

I'd build Sorin Markov as a Blood Magus (maybe not all 10 levels).

As to the problem with the spelllist; Add "Planeswalker" template to them =) It's made up so you can pretty much tailor it to your needs. I'd give it something like a daily or maybe more uses of Plane Shift; +3 bonus to saves, the use of either summon monster or summon natures ally once per level of the spell daily and +4 to single ability score of your choice. At what LA does that fall? I'm so bad at figuring that out =P

Sarkhan Vol (and clearly the Mad as well) have to go for Ragemage and Wildmage at some point, no matter how awful they can be.

Elpeth Tirel feels like a Warpriest or Evangelist to me. Maybe a Divine Crusader.

Koth of the Hammer is a sorcerer who picked the right "earth related" spells.

Venser the Sojourner specialize in the use of Blink, Greater Blink, Ethereal Jaunt and Banishment/Dispel Magic spells.

Nissa Revane (the only elven planeswalker as of yet) picked up Leadership for all her feats, and her cohorts picked Leadership for all their feats as well. A readied teleportation circle that leads to herself does the rest.

Gideon Jura I believe has taken a marshal level, and then pumped cleric for Divine Power, Righteous Might, Destruction and other goodies.

Karn Liberated: Where do we even begin? I guess he's got a permanent and randomly targeting Disintegrate cannon on top of his shoulder. With the power to twist even Time Stop to go back in time and rescue the would be victims and make them work for him. He is crazy good.

I ain't gonna try to cover the rest, as you fine playgrounders have already done so in a good way =)

[Fable Wright]

Liliana Vess is a vampiric specialist necromancer with the Ability Focus (Dominate) feat.

I... honestly don't think so. That sounds more like Sorin, if anything, and Sorin is not really that focused on casting. I would think Liliana is a SoD Necromancer, with Enervation effects to simulate her discard abilities. Probably also some levels of Mage of the Arcane Order, for her tutor powers. You get the cards next round, but it's exactly what you need...

She has to be Charisma-based, meaning Sorcerer or Dread Necromancer. She also has to be at least level 18, as she can cast Plague of Undead. (Remember, she was an Oldwalker; it makes sense for her to be high level.)

Sorin is some form of Gish, most definitely. There is a reason that he is never pictured without his sword. Without a doubt (to me at least), he's epic level. He probably has Duskblade levels, because he has Arcane Channeling for Vampiric Touch and Avasculate. He has to actually have Avasculate, meaning full casting class, and he's Charisma-based, so he's a Dread Necromancer or Sorcerer. However, he doesn't really have the hordes of undead thing going for him, so it's not too likely that he has that, and he also has access to Dominate, meaning that he's most likely a sorcerer. For the actual Gish class, I have no idea, though. Probably a level of Spellblade, maybe Abjurant Champion (He does have defensive wards, and the power to buff others), but beyond that I don't know.

[NeoSeraphi]

I... honestly don't think so. That sounds more like Sorin, if anything, and Sorin is not really that focused on casting. I would think Liliana is a SoD Necromancer, with Enervation effects to simulate her discard abilities. Probably also some levels of Mage of the Arcane Order, for her tutor powers. You get the cards next round, but it's exactly what you need...


Oh, wow, my bad. :smallredface: I have no excuse for screwing up her secondary ability. (Mentally confused it with Nicol's for some weird reason)

[Fable Wright]

Hm... for Garruk, I get why people say he's a druid, but I disagree. He never uses Wildshape, at all, nor does he use high level druid spells. I personally think that he would be a Mystic Ranger with the Strongarm combat style (Dragon 326), and probably some feats that let him summon more powerful creatures with Summon Nature's Ally than normal. The only problem is his overrun ability... but Mass Animalistic Power + Ability Enhancer + Possibly Haste would work, though it would require some homebrew, even more Dragon Magazine, and a few feats blown on learning the spells (Or, even better, getting Mass Animalistic Power added onto the lackluster list of Ranger 5th level spells; might require some feat investment or finagling with the DM, but it would work), and you would get Garruk. However, as you can see, there would be a lot of homebrew/Dragon work to make Garruk work as he does.

Gideon Jura strikes me as a Crusader all the way. He has lockdown abilities (Thicket of Blades), immense tanking power (Crusader as a class), and could probably come down like a hammer on one individual, especially if he takes some Stone Dragon maneuvers.

Jace is a Telepath all the way. He has bounce (Time hop), he has card draw/countering (Schism to Psionic Dispel; it's a big part of what the draw/filtering is used for, anyways...), mind kill (See "Telepath" powers for more information), and more. Plus instant (immediate action) abuse. Sounds pretty accurate.

Venser is a Nomad, even though the class seems somewhat underpowered. He moves allies around, be it to use their abilities again, or to get in for a finishing blow, and Retrieve + Psionic Divination, Psionic Plane Shift, etc being combined for his ultimate.

Karn: What you get when you ask a powergamer to build the most powerful golem creature he can within a 1000000gp budget.

Elspeth Tirel feels like a Cleric, all the way. Holy Word for DoJ effect, some form of summon spell variant for tokens, decent melee skill without magic, and insane buff powers make this seem fairly accurate.

Ajani... he's a tough nut to crack. He does healing, chain buffing, divine smiting, melee combat, summoning powerful beings, and resource denial. I would say that he would be a Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Cleric X/Ordained Champion, with Reach and Chain spells. He buffs everyone with his spells, including himself, and then goes to town on people, having access to Heal, LPA, and the like. Plus Antimagic Field and Initiate of Mystra for casting denial.

Bolas would be a Loredrake Great Wyrm Shadow Dragon (because his breath gives out negative levels, which also works with destroying noncreature permanents), a penchant for enchantment spells, the Uncanny Forethought feat, his own genesis'd demiplane, and several wizard levels for good measure. He also had a DM that banned Epic Spellcasting.

Chandra seems, to me, at least, like a Wilder/Metamind. He has a few spells, which she uses extremely well, is decent in melee combat, and has times when she does not run out of power, blowing everything up. Possibly with feats making fire more effective.

Koth seems to me like a Psychic Warrior/Anarchic Initiate, making heavy use of Astral Construct, and Bestow Power for surges of mana. Plus Expanded Knowledge for some heavy firepower Fire-based power, to finish it up.

Sarkhan Vol seems like a Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple, aiming to somehow become a full dragon instead of a wannabe. He has Haste, some sort of temporary mind control, and of course, Summon Dragon Ally.

Tezzeret is an Artificer, straight and simple. Who becomes more evil, but remains an artificer.

[DoctorGlock]

Bolas engineered the entire conflux and crushed planes together to restore his original planeswalker spark, essentially divine rank. He was one of the original walkers, before the retcon. Which bolas are you statting?

Any way you look at it, it's going to be a very advanced loredrake great wyrm, probably with epic casting (see the bit about crushing planes together and being a plot device) and maybe levels in that dragon PrC that grants divine rank. Bolas was the most powerful anything in MtG next to urza, serra and yawgmoth.

[Fable Wright]

Bolas engineered the entire conflux and crushed planes together to restore his original planeswalker spark, essentially divine rank. He was one of the original walkers, before the retcon. Which bolas are you statting?

Any way you look at it, it's going to be a very advanced loredrake great wyrm, probably with epic casting (see the bit about crushing planes together and being a plot device) and maybe levels in that dragon PrC that grants divine rank. Bolas was the most powerful anything in MtG next to urza, serra and yawgmoth.

Yes. Post-Retcon, he lost much of that power, and didn't gain it back until after crushing planes together. He crashed them together on his own, without epic casting. He has done nothing in the story so far that required epic casting; no character in my recollection has actually done something worthy of the title Epic Magic. Except possibly Karn. Regardless, CR 30 would be fair enough to what he actually can do, as most of his machinations are subtly, without the use of magic. I would say that Bolas could easily be statted out as CR 30, and stay true to the story line. Everything else would be an exaggeration of his abilities. A Great Wyrm Shadow Dragon + 6 levels of Wizard (taking Spontaneous Divination in addition to Uncanny Forethought) would wind up being a CR 30 monstrosity with level 25 wizard spellcasting, able to breathe out 8 negative levels every 1d4 rounds as a standard action, in addition to who knows what other wizard tricks he has. Adding anything else is overkill and unnecessary. This is, indeed, statting out the post-Conflux Bolas, and I believe that it is accurate.

[Alleran]

Bolas engineered the entire conflux and crushed planes together to restore his original planeswalker spark, essentially divine rank. He was one of the original walkers, before the retcon. Which bolas are you statting?
I haven't been keeping up. Nicol Bolas managed to restore his original planeswalker spark? As in, the spark of the pre-Conflux supercharged godlike planeswalker entities?

Exactly how is anything going to stop him now? Ever?

[DoctorGlock]

I haven't been keeping up. Nicol Bolas managed to restore his original planeswalker spark? As in, the spark of the pre-Conflux supercharged godlike planeswalker entities?

Exactly how is anything going to stop him now? Ever?

No idea, that's about as far caught up with the story as I am.

DMOD: How would you crush the planes together without epic magic?

[Fable Wright]

No idea, that's about as far caught up with the story as I am.

DMOD: How would you crush the planes together without epic magic?

Ask Bolas. :smalltongue:

However, in the Alara books, I believe he used a cabal of Grixis magi to gradually align the Shards over years/decades, and then activated the Obelisks to accelerate the collision.

[DoctorGlock]

Ask Bolas. :smalltongue:

However, in the Alara books, I believe he used a cabal of Grixis magi to gradually align the Shards over years/decades, and then activated the Obelisks to accelerate the collision.

Sounds like an epic ritual (or at least custom non epic spell using UA's ritual mechanics, but that essentially the same)

I suppose a ton of "precipitate greater breach might do it...

I'm overthinking this, jetlag melts the brain.

[Rhaegar14]

"Sorin established a religion with real power to help the humans hold their own against the forces of darkness. He created a living covenant, an angel named Avacyn who could keep a balance between humanity and its predators."

-- "The World" section of the Dark Ascension preview.

This made me laugh, because it pretty much made me think "so he gated in a Solar."

What with the vampire template and all though, Sorin would have a freakishly high ECL.