Monk Idea [PF]

[Strormer]

So I have an idea for how to make the monk a more viable option. A simple houserule that I think could increase the monk by at least one tier and I wanted feedback before I put it into place.
Replace the monk's fast movement ability with an ability that allows the monk to move a distance as a swift action, allowing the monk to flurry even after movement. In essence, instead of gaining 10ft. of movement at 3rd level the monk could move 10ft. as a swift action. Increase the allowed movement using the increments for the old fast movement ability and add fast movement at a slower rate to ensure that the monk's swift action move never outstrips his normal movement.
It's a straight power boost to the monk, but I think the monk sorely needs it. Opinions? Concerns?
Thanks.

[Mustard]

This isn't monk-specific, but one idea I had (though I'm probably not the first) for full-attackers in general was to allow replacing attacks with 5 feet of movement. These movements would count as iterations in an iterative attack, and would not prohibit 5-foot stepping. Only iterative attacks granted from BAB, flurry of blows, and haste would apply, and not from two-weapon fighting, or a speed weapon (for example, that is; other additional sources would need to be evaluated when making the final draft of the rule). The movement granted is affected by difficult terrain.

This way, you still need to spend a move action for significant distances, but if you just finished off an enemy, and the next one is 10' away, you can 5-foot step, trade your high BAB attack (because it's first) to move 5 more feet, and deal your remaining attacks if you have any. If the distance is such that you would be trading out all but your final attack, then you'd probably just do a regular move action and standard action attack, which is fine. (Edit: improved the last part of this section.)

Though I said it's not monk-specific, it works better for monks, due to getting many attacks in a flurry. If the idea is terrible, laugh at me and move on, I haven't really thought about it more than what I stated in this post, so I'm sure there are half a dozen issues to pick out.

Edit again: And as not to be considered rude for not directly answering your question, my idea is a proposed alternative to yours. I don't really want to comment on your idea, as I know little about the monk, and I didn't want to try to assertively state information out of my domain.

[Ravens_cry]

If you go splat book searching, and there isn't too many to search, besides the PF-SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) has pretty much all of them, Monks got much more viable, to the point where I actually want to play one now. Depending on build, starting level and items, you can make a monk as monostat as a wizard.

[Strormer]

I'm not sure the trading attacks works for me. I did my concept primarilly to deal with flurry, but having some movement as a swift action does have multiple applications.
I agree the monk was improved, I just don't think it was enough, imho. I'm actually toying with a PF monk replacement I'm calling Brawler at the moment, but this was one idea. Do you think I'm giving too big of a boost here?

[Ravens_cry]

Well, I don't think anything else in Pure Pathfinder gets that kind of manoeuvrability at that level.
One Barbarian rage power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/beast-totem-greater-su) gives Pounce. . . at 10th level at the earliest.
3rd level puts it out of reach of MOST dips, but you are still going to see a lot 3rd level Monk/Mêlée Class builds.
I think Paizo generally wanted to avoid that.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Well, I don't think anything else in Pure Pathfinder gets that kind of manoeuvrability at that level.
One Barbarian rage power (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/beast-totem-greater-su) gives Pounce. . . at 10th level at the earliest.
3rd level puts it out of reach of MOST dips, but you are still going to see a lot 3rd level Monk/Mêlée Class builds.
I think Paizo generally wanted to avoid that.

I feel like this wouldn't be an issue if monk was aimed at being maneuverable, in which case it sort of seems right that they would be the best in the game at it. I feel like 10 feet at level 3 isn't all that different from 5 feet, so it'd avoid being too dip friendly as well, especially if the fast movement requires the monk not wear armor.

[Mustard]

If you want to keep the power, but limit its appeal for dipping, here are some ideas to pick from:


Make it usable 1/day at 3rd level, plus one additional time every 4 levels, up to a maximum of <X> at level <Y>.
Make it cost ki points, say 2, or perhaps even 3. A full monk will have plenty of these, but a multiclass character probably won't (unless it's Monk/Ninja). This is a bit more elegant, but less restrictive.
Make it so that the number of attacks granted is as a monk 3 levels lower. Because BAB from other classes advances Flurry of Blows (it does, right? If not, forget this entirely and just say that the attack made after movement must be a Flurry), a Monk 4/Fighter 4, for the sake of argument, would be able to flurry as a Monk 1/Fighter 4 would. I'm a bit unsure about this one, but if the mechanics work as I think, it may be the best of these suggestions.

[Strormer]

I don't see this getting a lot of dip either since it would only be 10ft. at third level, 20ft. at sixth, 30ft. at ninth, etc. and the benefit isn't really apparent until sixth, at which point I wouldn't so much think of it as dipping. I do like the idea of making it cost ki points to use, maybe like pay 2 ki points to activate a mode and that mode lasts for a number of rounds based on your Wis mod?

[Mustard]

Hmm, costs 2 ki points and it lasts for 1 round per 2 monk levels. Or 1 ki point per usage. In my experience, you'd really only need it 1-2 times per encounter, so I'd like the latter, but my experience isn't everybody's.

I'm using Greater Beast Totem and Wildshape (beast shape 2) as points of reference. The former can be had at level 10, and the latter at 6 (or 4 with archetypes like Saurian Shaman). Both see increasing availabillity as levels go up. The disadvantage for the druid seems to be the limited ability (well, it's extremely costly) to enhance natural attacks, but monks face that situation as well if I am not mistaken. So I'd treat that as a separate problem, if so.

Total theory here, and not even with any actual math, so... hopefully my words have a modicum of wisdom...