Melee Bard

[LaughingRogue]

I'd like to make a melee bard for an upcoming campaign --- I would like to do so in a way that doesn't sacrifice my skills(for example i don't want to multiclass into a 2 + int skill class) and I'd like to be able to pull of Knowledge Devotion if at all possible, are there any builds out there that allow me to do so?

[MeeposFire]

You mean other than straight bard?

There are others but you could just go bard.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, the Frostburn book gets you the feat Snowflake Wardance, which lets you get your charisma to hit for a while. Then you add on Dragonfire Inspiration, which allows you to replace your Inspire Courage with d6s of energy damage. Then you add Words of Creation from Book of Exalted Deeds to boost that damage way, way up.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Look up Dragonfire Inspiration Optimization. Nothing says 'melee bard' like '+14d6 Sonic damage on every swing'.

Warblade, combined with White Raven Song and Able Learner, also does a good job. Sliding into War Chanter is also amazing for a 'melee bard'.

[mregecko]

Dragonfire Inspiration + Inspire Courage buffing + TWF

Tada!!!

[MeeposFire]

Well, the Frostburn book gets you the feat Snowflake Wardance, which lets you get your charisma to hit for a while. Then you add on Dragonfire Inspiration, which allows you to replace your Inspire Courage with d6s of energy damage. Then you add Words of Creation from Book of Exalted Deeds to boost that damage way, way up.

Boosting inspire courage good. Using words of creation should be saved for groups that can handle that boost. You can easily make a DMs life miserable with a doubling of your likely high number from your inspire courage and I don't mean that in a good way. If the DM and group can handle it WoC is awesome (it allows me to easily make people eat their words when they try to convince me that "bards suck").

[Greenish]

Dragonfire Inspiration + Inspire Courage buffing + TWFI might not bother with TWF. Sure, it works with DFI, but it costs feats and money that could be better used for something else, and increases MAD.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I might not bother with TWF. Sure, it works with DFI, but it costs feats and money that could be better used for something else, and increases MAD.

IIRC, there's a pair of gloves that bypasses this with minimal GP investment. Also, I think one of the Incarnum binds does this as well, although that's probably going to be feat intensive, and late-blooming.

[Coidzor]

What books/sources are on the table and are there any relevant houserules we should know about?

Wild cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) to get an animal with a fair number of natural weapons and standard inspire courage optimization (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830) can be pretty nasty if you wanna be able to melee and support. Similarly, Obtain Familiar from Complete Arcane (IIRC) + Improved Familiar can get you a nice little buddy that you can share spells with and who has at least half your HP and can share your defensive buffs.

Snowflake Wardance and Slippers of Battledancing get you +CHA to your attack and damage, which is always nice.

You get Haste as part of your casting. A 1-2 level dip into Sublime Chord gets you access to higher level gishing spells off of the bard and sorcerer/wizard list.

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 1-2/Virtuoso to finish is fairly competent, if a bit more spell reliant than chassis reliant.

Edit: Viz. TWF: A feat investment in TWF + Gloves of the Balanced Hand from the Magic Item Compendium can get one up to effectively Improved TWF (2 off-hand attacks), which is about as far as you really want to go with TWF anyway.

However, consider as alternatives Snap Kick, which allows an additional unarmed strike whenever one makes an attack, standard action,maneuver, full attack, whatever(including, IIRC, AoOs); at a -2 penalty to all attacks which is going to be easily more than offset by Inspire Courage + Dragonfire Inspiration twisting.

Or Wild Cohort for an additional IC/DFI platform that gets more than 1-2 attacks per round and has its own action set.

Or the feat "Requiem" from Libris Mortis and a Nightcaller's whistle(AKA Azun-Gund) from either Libris Mortis or the Sunless Citadel adventure module or other trick to get access to animated skeletal/zombie minions.

A good Inspire Courage/DFI twisting with sonic energy damage draconic heritage combined with a bunch of undead minions with ranged weapons can lead to some serious damage numbers. An unoptimized necro-cleric can get something like 100 1 HD skeletons that a bard can use to put the Tarrasque into a fairly hefty coma in one round. This got brought up in the ideal class pairings thread that came up a little bit ago.

[Dr.Epic]

There's savage bard from UA.

[Greenish]

IIRC, there's a pair of gloves that bypasses this with minimal GP investment.Gloves of the Balanced Hand work, yeah. Them and two weapons do take a chunk from your wealth, though.

[kardar233]

If you're going straight Bard, you only really need +1 Harmonizing Crystal Echoblades. Anything else is gravy.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you're going straight Bard, you only really need +1 Harmonizing Crystal Echoblades. Anything else is gravy.

Don't really need a crystal echoblade if you're going bard/warblade/warchanter, though. It's only useful if you have a lot of levels of actual Bard. Granted, Bard20 is not bad, by any means, but if you only have four levels of Bard, it isn't really worth the price of admission.

[kardar233]

Did I not say straight Bard? :smallconfused:

Not a fan of Warchanter as I want my maneuvers, but I suppose it's good for party buffing along with White Raven specialization.

[gorfnab]

I would like to do so in a way that doesn't sacrifice my skills(for example i don't want to multiclass into a 2 + int skill class)
Take a look into Bardic Knack ACF (PHBII) and the feat Jack of all Trades (CAdv)

[Tvtyrant]

Boosting inspire courage good. Using words of creation should be saved for groups that can handle that boost. You can easily make a DMs life miserable with a doubling of your likely high number from your inspire courage and I don't mean that in a good way. If the DM and group can handle it WoC is awesome (it allows me to easily make people eat their words when they try to convince me that "bards suck").

Or the opposite; just using Words of Creation only gets you 8d6 at level 20, but only requires a single feat. I outlined 3 feats that together make you fully melee capable without being OP.

[Incriptus]

Currently playing a melee bard . . . Only Partially OP'ed but also using a house rule with extraordinary attributes, and a few GM decisions that are not completely RULES AS WRITTEN [Mostly the decision that feats & items that give an improvement to Bardic Knowledge gives a porportional increase to Bardic Knack]

I've made level 8 remaining pure Bard. I use a Wand Cambered [Whirling Blade] Crystal Echoblade with the Harmonizing Enchantment. I exploit Bardic Knack [in combination with the above ruling] to have nearly all the knowledge skills maxed out. Obviously I have the Knowledge Devotion Feat. My Favorite spells so far are - Improvisation, Inspirational Boost, Blade Weave, Whirling Blade, Ray of Dizziness . . . & Cure Light Wounds [not for fights but as an after fight wands on tap]

[Chronos]

A good Inspire Courage/DFI twisting with sonic energy damage draconic heritage combined with a bunch of undead minions with ranged weapons can lead to some serious damage numbers. An unoptimized necro-cleric can get something like 100 1 HD skeletons that a bard can use to put the Tarrasque into a fairly hefty coma in one round. This got brought up in the ideal class pairings thread that came up a little bit ago.Of course, combining undead minions with Words of Creation would be problematic. Even considering two separate characters, it's hard to imagine an exalted character willingly teaming up with an undead-raising necromancer.

[Coidzor]

Of course, combining undead minions with Words of Creation would be problematic. Even considering two separate characters, it's hard to imagine an exalted character willingly teaming up with an undead-raising necromancer.

Having mindless undead be neutral is a relatively common houserule in my experience.

Even without Words of Creation, Inspire Courage + Dragonfire Inspiration is still fairly powerful.

[Talya]

Forget PrCs. It's not that there aren't any good ones...bard has great PrCs...but you can build a bard 20 that does everything better than factotums or changelings.


Silverbrow Human, Savage Bard variant. Replace Bardic Knowledge with Bardic Knack. Replace Fascinate song with Healing Hymn ACF. Replace Suggestion song with Song of the Heart. Other feats: Dragonfire Inspiration, Melodic Casting, Jack of All Trades. Perhaps lingering song if you find yourself twisting a lot of different song types. Use a pair of crystal echoblades and go to town.

[motoko's ghost]

It sorta works like this. (http://rustyandco.com/comic/level-3-10/)

[CapnVan]

. . . & Cure Light Wounds [not for fights but as an after fight wands on tap]

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, Incriptus. But you don't need to have CLW in your "spells known" to avoid having to use UMD to activate a wand of CLW.

It just needs to be in your spell list. (And anyone else feel free to correct me on that)

[DreadWarlock]

Battle Caster (Complete Adv, P75)

[Coidzor]

Battle Caster (Complete Adv, P75)

Sometimes, but usually Mithral Breastplate or Mithral Chain Shirt are the best armors in the game for those with some dex focus, though a mithril fullplate would help a bit with the MAD. It would also cut down on their move speed and they don't quite have the chassis to quite afford that hobbling and don't have the spells to make themselves more mobile as far as I can recall.

Also, the feat doesn't give medium or heavy armor proficiency. Then again, a dip into cleric (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0) is often quite useful and can nab that if one isn't interested in cloistered cleric. Though a combination of Mithral armor, githcraft or feycraft (or both) armor templates from DMG2(IIRC), thistledown padding from Races of the Wild(IIRC), and the Twilight armor property can drop ASF by up to 30-35%. A first level dip into Spellsword(complete warrior) as a prelude to going into Abjurant Champion can also help mitigate ASF.

On the topic of gish PrCs, Abjurant Champion's 5-6 levels can be covered by the dragon magazine [Anarchic] feat named Chaos Music combined with a few items such as a vest of legends and similar. Groovily enough, Bard 15/Abjurant Champion 5 will get you full iteratives in addition to losing nothing but mass suggestion. Bard 14/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5 would lose you inspire heroics, but it won't taunt you from being one level away from +8 damage from crystal echo blades either.

[LaughingRogue]

Wow thanks for the outpouring of comments and help on here, It's going to take me a bit to sort it all out as to what my DM will allow (as everything is on the table but not everything will be approved)

It will also take me a bit to look up what everything here does