Level of a 400 year old adventurer?

[Amoren]

Alright, I'm working something out for a fluff character, who I've already figured will be something in the epic levels. He's someone that's been actively adventuring for 400 years, and I'm not sure what level that would place him at (or if there's really a set level for this sort of thing). At the moment, I've settled on level 30.

Or, should I just try to figure out what capabilities I have in mind for him and work backwards from there to determine his level?

[Yora]

Depends entirely on how much enemies he fought and what types of enemies he fought. It would also be of importance what other characters in the setting have as levels.
The range could easily be from 4th level up to infinity.

[sreservoir]

if we assume four encounters per day, averaging even CR, something like 10000.

this is very unrealistic.

[Madara]

I would do two parts;
1.What do you need him to do?
2.What has he been doing while adventuring? Where did he visit? Who did he work with?

[Amoren]

400 years is such a long time to fill in. But, a key part of his past was saving the world somewhat early in his adventuring career, so I'd say he hit level 20 around about then. Since then, he's done such things as wandering, manipulating kingdoms (causing them to fall or rise), toured the various planes and gotten on the wrong side of demigods and gods.

As for what I need him to do... That I need to fill in a bit better.

[Coidzor]

If he's an artificer/crafter/caster, then it could have remained fairly static due to crafting things a lot. Only, he'd have so much bling and his strongholds are so secure that they basically vaporize anything that tries to breach them, and it'd be very, very silly to try to pick a fight with him he had so much stuff.

For one thing, he'd have accrued enough wealth and experience and had enough time to make several sets of items that contained all of the magical properties printed by WOTC and 3rd party material. Probably all homebrew ever too, but that might actually shave off one or two sets of items.

Between things like wall of iron or wall of salt to sell on many different planes for moolah, planar travel to go take gems from the elemental plane of earth or trade spellcasting services to the elemental lords in exchange for vast quantities of material wealth, planar binding or gate to summon a foe powerful enough to harvest for XP, the LE mendicant scheme that uses Book of Vile Darkness clamps that turn pain into pleasure and traps that cast the spell from Book of Exalted Deeds to turn pleasure into liquid ambrosia that can be used for crafting instead of XP, all of the different cost-reduction techniques (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1000.0)...

The Wish economy where they can have an uncapped, exponentially increasing number of simulacrums of Efreet and/or Solars standing by to either provide spells for crafting or wishes for mundane material wealth to power crafting...

[Amoren]

Well, on the bright side, he's not a tier one class. My current plan is Rogue 20 (Pathfinder rogue), and then a mix of Beguiler and Unseen Seer on top of it, and four to five levels of Warshaper in the mix). That being said, he likely has friends that are very capable of the above tricks, and certainly has a wealth of equipment, back up equipment, friends, contacts, and favors upon favors to handle almost any eventuality.

[herrhauptmann]

Alright, I'm working something out for a fluff character, who I've already figured will be something in the epic levels. He's someone that's been actively adventuring for 400 years, and I'm not sure what level that would place him at (or if there's really a set level for this sort of thing). At the moment, I've settled on level 30.

Or, should I just try to figure out what capabilities I have in mind for him and work backwards from there to determine his level?

Are you trying to write the backstory for an epic level D&D character or something else?


His level is whatever the level of the game is set for. He can be 400 and level 8, or 400 and level 400. At some point in his international chess games, he'd probably start earning XP only for story, rather than actual challenge. After you've manipulated your fifth empire to selfdestruction, the challenge tends to pall. (See Grey Witch from Record of Lodoss War)

If you've got an awesome character idea and are trying to stat him so you can write a story/novel, without him breaking all the rules (an admirable goal, Salvatore could learn from you), then he's whatever level you feel he should be. In which case, his age has little bearing on it, unless you want him to always be complaining about his aching back. Perhaps even developing a weather control spell just alleviate his arthritis.

[Seharvepernfan]

I'd say somewhere about 30 then. Maybe 25-32.

[Yora]

In my setting, he'd be 11th.

[Vacant]

It really depends on the setting around him. In a lot of settings his progress is going to have to trail off at some point due to diminishing returns; challenges that are enough levels lower than a character don't give that character any experience, and the world may have a limit to the amount of epic-level abominations and so on to face. In this sense, he can keep killing armies and armies of mooks and even ancient dragons and, at some point, he's not going to learn anything new because it just isn't a challenge anymore, so a few hundred years of rinse-and-repeat adventures may not grant him any levels after the first few hundred, you know?

[Ernir]

He's probably the highest level guy in the setting, whatever that means.

As for what he has done...
He has fought all the battles. He has killed more of the dangerous monsters than the stories have names for. He has gathered armies, lead them, and destroyed those of his enemies. He has repeatedly saved the world from liches, demons, and dark gods. He has a group of admirers, even a cult.
He has written books. His views and opinions have left a permanent impression on the society in which he lives. He has sat down, and figured out the meaning of his existence.

[Amoren]

Anyway, it seems that level 30ish seems about right, so I'll just aim there and if I need to add a few levels for whatever, then so be it. Right now it looks like Rogue 20/Warshaper 4-5/Beguiler 6/Unseen Seer 5-10. So, looks like he'll be anywhere from 35 to 41, unless I reduce some of the rogue levels.

Now just to figure out what his double sword can do. x3

[Coidzor]

Well, there's no real reason for him to have taken the 20th level of Rogue, as that's a dead level.

[Averis Vol]

i don't think it matters that its a dead level, just seems that he wants master rogue to be perfectly defined.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, there's no real reason for him to have taken the 20th level of Rogue, as that's a dead level.
OP specified the Pathfinder Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue) a few posts in, for whom 20th is not a dead level.

But yes, you start with what you want him to be able to do, and work your way backwards from there.

[Amoren]

As Jack said, Pathfinder rogue isn't a dead level. Another Major rogue trait (perhaps traded in for a feat), and Master Strike, which I'm not sure how much it fits with the flavor of the character, but why not.

I want at least the fifth level of Unseen Seer for the permanent Nondetection (perhaps boosted somehow, so he stands a chance of resisting an epic spellcaster). And the sixth level of Beguiler is for the reduction to feinting (planning on using Surprising Riposte, if only to demonstrate a sort of natural rogue swashbuckling). Might throw in a few levels of Arcane Trickster too, to get CL to 18 for 9th level spells if I go with full Unseen Seer. *Shrugs*

The equipment is going to be a pain to work out, however... Need to read up on epic item rules. I've already plotted some capabilities for his two-bladed sword (the primary of which is granting proficiency in the weapon, being capable of being used with weapon finesse, and using dex for damage instead of strength - I am thinking of the weapon damage only being a d6 due to it being fluffed as light in construction to make this possible). I was also leaning towards it being an intelligent weapon, but then I'd need to essentially make a second character...

[herrhauptmann]

The equipment is going to be a pain to work out, however... Need to read up on epic item rules. I've already plotted some capabilities for his two-bladed sword (the primary of which is granting proficiency in the weapon, being capable of being used with weapon finesse, and using dex for damage instead of strength - I am thinking of the weapon damage only being a d6 due to it being fluffed as light in construction to make this possible). I was also leaning towards it being an intelligent weapon, but then I'd need to essentially make a second character...
Since you seem to be using a bit of 3.5 stuff...
Feats: Craven, Darkstalker, Item Familiar.
Equipment: 300k of non-epic equipment is generally superior to 700k of equipment that has the keyword [epic].
'Skillful' from CArc makes you proficient with a weapon, even an exotic. Also gives you cleric bab if yours is lower.

Are you taking a character from a book and trying to make it into a D&D character?

[Slipperychicken]

It looks like you allow 3.5 classes. If you use Tome of Battle, a late dip in an initiator class (like Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade) gives a lot of versatility in combat.

[Coidzor]

What kind of game are you running that his exact items are going to be pertinent anyway?

[Alleran]

He's probably picked up an artifact or two along the way, too. Maybe several artifacts, and at least one or two of them would be major ones.

[FMArthur]

What's his race? If he's an elf or something he might not be all that high level. They're pretty slow in the head for their development...

By extrapolation, eladrin and aasimar, who are basically more elven elves, would still be drooling in their cribs at a measly 400 years.

[Dragon Star]

At that level, you are going to have a huge problem rationalizing why he doesn't just solve every problem ever. If you go the "big war going on, he has better things to do" route, then why aren't your players (I don't know what your using this for, just assuming it's a campaign) in on that battle? He would need to be about three centurys older befor you can use "got bored of the world, retired"
Theres always "saw so much horrible stuff that he just doesn't care anymore" but that seems like it might ruin the character.

[Belril Duskwalk]

At that level, you are going to have a huge problem rationalizing why he doesn't just solve every problem ever. If you go the "big war going on, he has better things to do" route, then why aren't your players (I don't know what your using this for, just assuming it's a campaign) in on that battle? He would need to be about three centurys older befor you can use "got bored of the world, retired"
Theres always "saw so much horrible stuff that he just doesn't care anymore" but that seems like it might ruin the character.

Well, the OP did say that he spent a time manipulating kingdoms into their own dooms, or giving rise to kingdoms for the hell of it. This would seem to suggest that the reason he doesn't fix problems could be that he's been causing those very problems for kicks. He could be bored of being so powerful so maybe he chooses to act exclusively by proxy in spite of the fact that he could wipe out the kingdom by his lonesome if he wanted. Anybody who topples kingdoms for the heck of it is probably NOT an LG Big Good type of person.

Given the bits of pastimes the OP has mentioned I'm picturing a CN who makes trouble because he can, then waits around to see if anybody bothers to fix it. Or alternatively sets in motion an act of kingdom building just to see what will happen.

Just because a character is seriously powerful doesn't mean he has to care.

On the subject of this character's level, I say his level should be 'whatever the story needs him to be, but not a bit more powerful than that.'

[Amoren]

The purpose for this is mostly fluff. Essentially, a bunch of my friends decided to give DnD stats to their characters, for the hell of it (perhaps to make some persistent game world in the near future), and I thought why not. I might also use these stats later in my game if I make this character an NPC, especially if I make it set in the setting he's from.

And is excuse for not getting involved is more "Why do I care?" He's a chaotic neutral, with a slight lean towards chaotic good. He gets involved in matters because they either concern him, his friends, or he's bored and there's nothing better to stick his nose in at the moment. He might actually take part in the events the adventurer's are involved in, but they'd have to do some sort of favor or bribe the guy to the point it might be easier to just do it themselves.

As for his race, it's a custom adjustment to a homebrewed race based off of the kitsune mythos. Normally members of his race are just as slow as elves, spending most of their time sitting around contemplating their existence and the meaning of everything for their enlightenment. This character's main difference is that as soon as he reached 'adulthood' he started running around doing something, starting with playful tricks, to actual adventuring, until finally he became established enough to manipulate entire kingdoms, and from there to his current level.

As for feats, I was already planning on grabbing Craven and Darkstalker, and I just remembered I was also going to give him 5-6 levels of Telflammar Shadowlord, to make him even more of a shadowy super rogue (whether this will consume rogue levels or not, or add him to around level 50... I don't know). Item Familiar feat, however, is a perfect suggestion, and I have just the equipment for it!

As for artifacts, I was planning on his sword being a quite epic intelligent weapon, keyed specifically for him. He's also going to have quite a few contingency spells placed on him from his friends/allies/contacts/whatever, the least of which will be "Greater Planeshift to his Base of Operations upon his death", so he can be quickly resurrected.

A few questions I do have about epic level items, however;
Do Enhancement Tomes go above +5? (For example, could he get a +10 Tome of Dexterity or Intelligent, or are the +5s the max, like the case for wish?)
Ability Enhancements go up to 10, correct? (I at least saw a few instances of +10 to strength, dex, or con in the epic intelligent item properties).

And in addition, is there any good rogue-styled epic feats to pick? The three or so I've seen are the one that lets you automatically dodge one attack per round and the two that lets you use your reflex save instead of fortitude/will to cover one of the pains of rogue existence.

[herrhauptmann]

I have no idea where this character is coming from (some other rpg?), but I'd advise against using him as a DMPC or NPC. SImply put, you've too much effort put into him. Most DMs can't set their favorite character aside and let PCs take the forefront.

There's sneak attack of opportunity: Get sneak attack for every AOO you make. There's also a non-epic sneak attack of opportunity from dragon magazine. Can't remember how it's different, but it is.

Another set of feats lets you get a second or even third attack when making an AOO. Of course, each extra attack takes away from your total AOOs per round.

Now that you've got a great AOO routine, it's probable that you'll be doing more damage out of turn, than during your own turn. At least in terms of attacks.
How to make it better? Take the SA feats from Complete Scoundrel, sacrifice a few measly d6, to deal other effects.
Even better? Make your weapon[s] a life-drinker from the DMG. (It's 38k for the lifedrinker effect) Now each attack has the possibility of dealing negative levels as well.
If your party doesn't stock up on soulfire armors, they're screwed, no matter their level.