Ranger Issues...

[JackRackham]

A PC in a game I'm DM-ing is interested in playing a ranger. Normally, this would be fine except:

A: He played a Barbarian in the last campaign and, toward the end, expressed frustration at the repetitive nature of the class.

B: The other players, so far are a control wizard and a sorcerer-gish.

Now, I know a number of the better Ranger builds and I could help him be mechanically relevant. He would soon find, however, that such builds are just as formulaic as Barbarian (he was actually PrC'd into Bear warrior and was multiclassing into dungeoncrasher for a charger build). I really think factotum or swordsage would be better for him from a gameplay perspective, but I think he's set on the (elf) ranger fluff. SO, o' Mighty Playground, my question is twofold:

1. What other classes, ACFs, etc should I point him at that offer more versatility while coming as close to Ranger as possible fluff-wise? As an aside, I don't think Druid is what he's looking for.

2. I'm considering tweaking the Factotum to be my new and improved Ranger, basically just substituting INT for WIS and then refluffing everything appropriately (instinct/wisdom of the forest replacing intellect). Then, of course, it might well be Divine spellcasting, rather than Arcane as well. And, cunning surge could be something like primal surge or somesuch...idk. I suppose it'd be strictly weaker as a skillmonkey in that WIS does not affect skills known, but it would end up with better saves and would synergize with, for instance, Swordsage better, if he decides to multiclass. Would this work? That's the question.

3. Whatever I do, I want to tread carefully, as my mannerisms make suggestions come off as more than that. I want him to play what he wants. I just want him to know there are options out there.

[gbprime]

Why not best of both worlds? let him play an elf ranger but upgrade it per some people's Tome of Battle suggestions...

Tome of Battle Core Class Update (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Tome_of_Battle_Core_Class_Update)

[HunterOfJello]

Mystic Ranger (yay spells!)
Wildshape Ranger (yay animals!)

Mystic Ranger + Sword of the Arcane Order (yay wizard spells too!)
Wildshape Ranger + Master of Many Forms (yay Beastboy!)
Wildshape Ranger + Planar Shephard (wtf?!)



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Ranger Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=1v1ditnhdaapbunhtmamdlp8c3&topic=4621.0)
Swift Hunter Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html)

Swift Hunter is pretty popular. It uses a few scout levels with lots of ranger levels to stack up lots of damage. It is likely the most effective build type you're going to end up with if you're attempting to make a more classic ranger instead of taking the class in other directions.

Wildshape Rangers get wildshape in exchange for the loss of their combat styles. This allows them to get into all sorts of other stuff including Master of Many Forms, Planar Shephard, and other things.

Mystic Ranger is very popular. It gives the ranger more spells per day and a faster progression of spellcasting. It has a very low cost and should be on pretty much every ranger build in existence. The extra spells can help a great deal, especially if the player has access to the Spell Compendium where several good ranger spells can be found.

[NeoSeraphi]

Give him the scent ability as part of Swift Tracker (rangers should have gotten it anyway) and let him always treat his Favored Enemies' scents as overpowering.

At 10th level, give him the ability to continuously speak with animals.

Give him a second companion at level 8 or so, but make it so that the companion receives no progression at all. Suggest he get a hawk or a horse, something that will be helpful out of combat and also stay true to the wilderness flavor.

Bump Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight up. I don't have a suggestion for levels here, but they're not that powerful, and it's no fun that they come way too late to enjoy them.

Point him to the Trophy Collector feat from the Player's Handbook II. It's not exactly powerful, but nothing says "hunter" like a taxadermist who kills creatures and turns them into hats. (It's also a pretty nice source of income)

These suggestions won't help him be versatile in combat, and I'm sorry about that, but they will help him enjoy the flavor of his class more, and as for the combat prowess, I agree with gbprime.

[JackRackham]

Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'm aware of most of those options and if f he does go Ranger, I'll reccommend them. I'm more worried about versatility than power (Thus my idea for adapting the Factotum mechanics; Mystic Ranger could help here too). This guy isn't the type to get pouty if he'sa not the strongest character in the group, I just want to avoid him getting stuck with another one-trick pony.

Any opinions on the viability of adapting the Factotum mechanics and refluffing it as a wilderness-type?

EDIT: I also appreciate the houserule suggestions. I'll keep them in mind if he goes Ranger.

[NeoSeraphi]

Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'm aware of most of those options and if f he does go Ranger, I'll reccommend them. I'm more worried about versatility than power (Thus my idea for adapting the Factotum mechanics; Mystic Ranger could help here too). This guy isn't the type to get pouty if he'sa not the strongest character in the group, I just want to avoid him getting stuck with another one-trick pony.

Any opinions on the viability of adapting the Factotum mechanics and refluffing it as a wilderness-type?

Replace trapfinding with Track, give him the ranger's skill list instead of all skills, divine SLAs from the druid/ranger spell list, and maybe a couple of bonus feats, and Skirmish instead of Sneak Attack, and you'd be set. (Sneak Attack doesn't belong on a ranger)

[Manateee]

It looks like this board's gotten more insulated than it used to be, but Radical Taoist's Sublime Way Ranger (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074/Sublime_Way_Variant_Ranger&post_num=1#331675810) was a widely accepted ToB Ranger variant about half a decade ago. It plays somewhere between a scout and a warblade.

Note that its Falling Star discipline is TS/Edea's (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19527602/Falling_Star_style:_the_Tenth_Path_of_the_Sublime_ Way) (it's since fallen victim to multiple forum reformattings). Not the one someone posted on these boards around the same time (though I've heard it's good too - it probably shouldn't matter which you use).

EDIT:
Dang. I can't find the completed pdf of that discipline. Might have to settle for one of the other many ranged schools whose files still exist.

Alternatively, the Mystic Ranger variant + Spell Compendium spells leaves the Ranger on about the same power level as Sublime Ranger, but MR's spell advancement is painfully stupid (it just about matches the Wizard until level 10, then just stops). Sword of the Arcane Order is often tagged onto MR builds, but it's not necessary if your goal is just making an interesting caster-fighter.

And if you're familiar with the Totemist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050907a&page=3) from Magic of Incarnum, it's similar to a Ranger in many ways - and even plays very similarly to a melee Ranger with Spell Compendium spells, but without the daily restrictions or all the Ranger class's weird baggage (not that it doesn't have weird baggage of its own :p).

EDIT:
^No Sneak Attack on a character whose schtick is sneaking up on things and attacking them?

[Jornophelanthas]

A: He played a Barbarian in the last campaign and, toward the end, expressed frustration at the repetitive nature of the class.

In my opinion, the issue with the Barbarian's repetitiveness revolves around the lack of tactical choices, which are mostly limited to:
- For how much do I use Power Attack on my greatsword/greataxe this turn?
- Do I start my rage yet? (Moot if rage has already started.)
There is also very little customization of combat abilities, as only the standard feats allow for some flexibility, and of those Power Attack is almost mandatory. Bear Warrior merely modifies the rage bonuses rather than give a player extra options.
This makes the Barbarian rather dull from a tactics standpoint, and also from a character development point of view.

A Ranger has significantly more character customization options over and above the standard feats:
- Selection of favored enemies.
- Selection of combat style.
- Selection of animal companion.
- Spellcasting.
In combat tactics, there is also more involvement:
- (For ranged attacking Rangers): Where do I need to stand to get a clear shot (without partial cover) at the enemy? (Depending on how the DM sets up the battle terrain with various features and obstacles, this could be more or less repetitive.)
- Are any of the foes favored enemies? Which one do I attack? (Depends on whether you ever meet mixed groups of monsters.)
- What does my animal companion do?
- Do I cast a spell?
- Do I use one of my feats?

All in all, a Ranger has somewhat more options both in combat and in character advancement than a Barbarian. If you're used to full spellcasters, a Ranger can still be repetitive, but no class is as dull as the Barbarian.

[Gwendol]

+1 to revise the level at which HiPS come into play.

Also, consider allowing 1 off-hand attack on a standard action (and not just when full attacking) to make TWF not be so pointless.

Direct him to the spell compendium for examining the spells there, thus greatly enhancing the flexibility of the class.

Because he's a ranger he is likely to have both hands occupied most of the time (either wielding a bow or two weapons), so make sure he is aware of wand chambers (dungeonscape).

[Killer Angel]

Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'm aware of most of those options and if f he does go Ranger, I'll reccommend them. I'm more worried about versatility than power

What's the level of the campaign?
'coz Horizon Walker can give a good versatility with some of the planar terrains.

[JackRackham]

What's the level of the campaign?
'coz Horizon Walker can give a good versatility with some of the planar terrains.

I haven't really decided yet. I'll start at level 1, 3 or 5 and I'm hoping the game will survive into at least the mid-teens. About half the PCs will be people I haven't played with before though, so I'll be playing it by ear.