OOTS #828 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[aberratio ictus]

As much as I'm angry at redcloak for killing Thanh, I wish he'd kill Tsukiko already.

[blackjack217]

I wonder what wards red is using?

[ThePhantom]

Interesting. It looks like she's looking for the other part of the ritual.

[RMS Oceanic]

Hmm, Tsukiko has been a tad more proactive than I anticipated. This may put paid to Redcloak's plan for the phylactery. Even if he talks his way out of this, she'll probably voice her (now correct) theories to Xykon.

EDIT: ThePhantom's theory is also intriguing. Has she reverse engineered the ritual, figured out its true purpose and wants Redcloak's copy for corroboration?

In any case, the next few strips will be pretty tense.

[Fruchtkracher]

Uh oh I hope Tsukiko won't really realize Redcloak has it...

Otherwise this could get reaaally ugly...

[Peacehammer]

The phylactery wasn't the first thing that I thought of, I was thinking more about the details of the ritual.

I wonder if she is going to be as flippant next comic?

[t209]

So, they're looking for a remote. Good Red Herring, Rich!

[Mordae]

Now THAT'S a poker face.

[t209]

Now THAT'S a poker face.

Pardon? I don't understand what you mean by that!

[super dark33]

As much as I'm angry at redcloak for killing Thanh, I wish he'd kill Tsukiko already.

I second that! why wont she die?

[Ancalagon]

Nice poker face by both of them.

But Redcloak, man (ok, goblin), just grow a spine. Kill Tsukiko and turn her to dust. Just tell Xykon you killed her because she annoyed you (should he ask) and move on. You're playing rough on Team Evil and who dies surely won't complain either, remember? :smallbiggrin:

[bronnt]

Team Evil: Once again, not just one big happy family!

Then again, fighting over the Teevo remote seems almost...wholesome.

[Icedaemon]

Nice save. Say what you want about that goblin, he knows that villains should have good bluff skill.

[hamishspence]

Indeed. Hopefully it won't end up coming back to bite him.

[homeslice]

Nice misdirection by Redcloak right there at the end. :smallbiggrin:

[Dusk Eclipse]

If Xykon is relying on Tsukiko for the ritual I am pretty sure that even if Redcloak kills her, Xykon will probably congratulate him and the force him to raise her.

[Cor1]

Yay! No one saw that one coming.

[Morty]

Nice poker face by both of them.

But Redcloak, man (ok, goblin), just grow a spine. Kill Tsukiko and turn her to dust. Just tell Xykon you killed her because she annoyed you (should he ask) and move on. You're playing rough on Team Evil and who dies surely won't complain either, remember? :smallbiggrin:

It's not really about Tsukiko anymore. If Redcloak kills her, Xykon will be pissed, and at this point, Redcloak's pissing off Xykon is likely to make Gobbotopia a brief footnote in history.

[Roland Itiative]

I was wondering if RC would show some of his newfound spine to Tsukiko, but I guess we'll have to wait a little more for that. I wonder if she's searching for something related to the ritual...

[gallagher]

guys, i think we are all forgetting the real problem here.

i bet the remote was stolen by the resistance.

[homeslice]

I was wondering if RC would show some of his newfound spine to Tsukiko, but I guess we'll have to wait a little more for that. I wonder if she's searching for something related to the ritual...

She probably is, but I wouldn't put it past anyone on Team E to kill people just to find a remote.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Nice fan poster of The Dark One. Oh, and tensions. Lots of it. Presumably about the missing parts of the ritual or the phylactery. Anyway, he looses no time hiding it. So, as many guessed, there is soeme double-crossing going on.

[Gift Jeraff]

Nice! I was falling asleep on my first day of class but this did the trick. Also, gotta love the wight with Thanh's shoes. He follows in his footsteps. Also, assuming Thog is a goner, he carries on the legacy of evil, dim-witted, tusked sidekick.

And why is it always the goblins with goatees? :smallfrown:That's the 4th one by my count.Actually, looking back on Thanh, Chief, and Kubota, it's always the guys with any facial hair. :smalleek:

On a more serious note, does that mean there's be something special for the printed version of #827? Same thing happened for #50, #311, #337, and #430 (strips with "remaining fractions," so to speak).

EDIT: And does this mean Tsukiko is Neutral Evil leaning towards Chaos? Nevermind. I misread it as Tsukiko watching Real Housewives of Tarterus, but she wanted to watch something else now.

[Hardcore]

New Comic. Just what I needed:smallbiggrin:

[Ancalagon]

It's not really about Tsukiko anymore. If Redcloak kills her, Xykon will be pissed, and at this point, Redcloak's pissing off Xykon is likely to make Gobbotopia a brief footnote in history.

Assuming what Xykon might do is always a gamble, but Redcloak has no choice if he does not want to get replaced as Second in Command. We (readers of the comic) have rather strong reasons to assume Xykon is working on replacing Redcloak and he is smart enough to suspect something as that (given how Tsukiko behaves and that she admitted Xykon gave her stuff to say that will silence Redcloak) as well.

So it does not come down to "Redcloak cannot risk to let Tsukiko live" but to "He cannot risk letting her run around anymore". Before she showed up he had a relatively stable relationship with Xykon. Yes, he was the follower, but it worked for him. Now with Tsukiko in the picture, that already has changed a lot!

Actually, I think Xykon only loathes Redcloak the way he does because he has no spine at all, even in situations where he really should. Showing some might not create a "I will kill you" but "Nice to see you finally develop some spine but note I'll kill you if you do more".

[Querzis]

But Redcloak, man (ok, goblin), just grow a spine. Kill Tsukiko and turn her to dust. Just tell Xykon you killed her because she annoyed you (should he ask) and move on. You're playing rough on Team Evil and who dies surely won't complain either, remember? :smallbiggrin:

Yeah no, its not gonna work like that. Xykon doesnt trust Redcloak at all anymore and hes relying on Tsukiko for the ritual. Hes either gonna be angry and force him to resurect her or get her resurected (or maybe even turned into an intelligent undead...hell she'd like that) by someone else after killing Red and turning Gobbotopia into a burning wasteland.

Beside, I'm pretty sure Tsukiko can defend herself. She definitly aint just a low-level paladin he can one-shot, especially after using most of his spells against the resistance.

[Asta Kask]

So this is a 'study in viridian' - which I assume is goblinoid blood. Now, viridian is the color of chromium (III) oxide. Now, chromium can have many different forms carrying various amounts of oxygen. So presumably the evolution of goblin races led them to adopt a chromium-based oxygen-carrier, with chromium (III) oxide being the oxygen carrying state. My guess is that there a couple of suitable amino acids present to displace the oxygen in the deoxygenated form.

[Particle_Man]

And why is it always the goblins with goatees? :smallfrown:That's the 4th one by my count.Actually, looking back on Thanh, Chief, and Kubota, it's always the guys with any facial hair. :smalleek:

I . . . uh . . . better shave. *runs away*

[Sunken Valley]

Awesome Giant

[North_Ranger]

I'm just gonna blurt out the obvious here and state that these two are headed on a collision course with each other like two battleships playing chicken.

What I'm not so certain about is whether it's gonna be a titanic duel of two primary spellcasters or whether Redcloak will just stab her in the back when Xykon's not looking and pin the blame on someone else (elves, the Order, that guy watering the ferns...).

[blazingshadow]

i wonder where is the remote? what if they need to scry on the OOTS again while they are opening dangerous trapped doors? this should be a priority

[North_Ranger]

So this is a 'study in viridian' - which I assume is goblinoid blood. Now, viridian is the color of chromium (III) oxide. Now, chromium can have many different forms carrying various amounts of oxygen. So presumably the evolution of goblin races led them to adopt a chromium-based oxygen-carrier, with chromium (III) oxide being the oxygen carrying state. My guess is that there a couple of suitable amino acids present to displace the oxygen in the deoxygenated form.

Ah, but you forget that the Giant has so far consistently depicted wounded goblins with red, not green slashes. Therefore suggesting that their blood is similar in basic principles to that of humans and other depicted humanoids, thus being red. Xykon's wounds, by contrast, are depicted in white as he has no blood to bleed.

[Ron Miel]

Interesting. It looks like she's looking for the other part of the ritual.

I thought it was clear, she really is looking for the remote.

[Hbgplayer]

Ok, maybe I misunderstood the scene where :mitd: interupted Tsukiko studying the ritual, but I have been assuming that MITD knew and was going to perform the first half of the ritual. ...
Hmm, in hindsight, that sound extremely dumb, doesn't it?

[Lynn]

Nice bluff check. Carrying the phylactery on his belt, on the other hand, is not so smart.

[RMS Oceanic]

Assuming he somehow talks his way out of the current situation, Redcloak's best hope to keep control of the situation is for Xykon to stay away for a little while longer. If Tsukiko's intrusion tells me anything though, this won't happen.

And also I wonder, what if she takes the Phylactery now and brings it to Xykon along with her suspicions? Will he believe Redcloak was hiding it, or will he believe Redcloak's honest claims that he just reclaimed it? I almost dread that, because it means Redcloak's position is downright perilous.

The tension is palpable right now.

[Peelee]

Interesting. It looks like she's looking for the other part of the ritual.

That's exactly what I thought as soon as i saw her ransacking the room. After reading whole thing, it appears she's looking for the phylactery, though how she would have suspected Redcloak would have it at this point is a mystery to me



As much as I'm angry at redcloak for killing Thanh, I wish he'd kill Tsukiko already.

I'm suspecting she's going to become a side unto herself. She can cast both arcane and divine, if she figures out the whole ritual, she could potentially cast it herself. She'd need a reason to go against Xykon, though, but a betrayal on his part would make sense for that. Of course, these are also the crazed ramblings of a madman, but it seems like a very good possibility for a Mystic Theurge to go

[RMS Oceanic]

I thought it was clear, she really is looking for the remote.

No, I think she was just agreeing with how annoying the MitD was.

[Duos Greanleef]

Wait, is Tsukiko ACTUALLY looking for the remote, or did Redcloak cleverly distract her with a clever distraction?

Also, +1 to all of the I wish Tsukiko was dead comments. I don't even care how at this point. She's making me actually feel badly for the hobgoblins that are the bulk of the bad guys' troops.

[Morty]

Assuming what Xykon might do is always a gamble, but Redcloak has no choice if he does not want to get replaced as Second in Command. We (readers of the comic) have rather strong reasons to assume Xykon is working on replacing Redcloak and he is smart enough to suspect something as that (given how Tsukiko behaves and that she admitted Xykon gave her stuff to say that will silence Redcloak) as well.

So it does not come down to "Redcloak cannot risk to let Tsukiko live" but to "He cannot risk letting her run around anymore". Before she showed up he had a relatively stable relationship with Xykon. Yes, he was the follower, but it worked for him. Now with Tsukiko in the picture, that already has changed a lot!

Actually, I think Xykon only loathes Redcloak the way he does because he has no spine at all, even in situations where he really should. Showing some might not create a "I will kill you" but "Nice to see you finally develop some spine but note I'll kill you if you do more".

Predicting what Xykon might do is a gamble, yes. However, at this point, this gamble is very dangerous, since Xykon is angrier with Redcloak than ever and he made it perfectly clear he won't tolerate any more screw-ups. And Redcloak has far too much to lose right now, after having made Gobbotopia stable. Xykon still needs Redcloak, but he doesn't need Gobbotopia, so he might want to blow it to pieces just to teach Redcloak a lesson. And Redcloak won't risk his percious nation.

[Gift Jeraff]

I doubt she's really looking for the remote--remotes typically aren't found in books. Then again, I've found it in stranger places.

And did anyone else think of Mike the TV from ReBoot?

[fibonacciseries]

I think that it's more likely that she's looking for the ritual due to the fact that she's ransacked his bookshelf, and is looking through each book; not something one does when searching for a phylactery.

[Warren Dew]

Go Tsukiko!


It's not really about Tsukiko anymore. If Redcloak kills her, Xykon will be pissed, and at this point, Redcloak's pissing off Xykon is likely to make Gobbotopia a brief footnote in history.
Good point. Seeing Redcloak's dream of Gobbotopia go down in ashes might be worth it, not that it will happen.

[DreadPirateDB]

I'm just gonna blurt out the obvious here and state that these two are headed on a collision course with each other like two battleships playing chicken.


So which one is the lighthouse? My money is on RedCloak.

[SpaceBadger]

Thanks, Giant!

edit: I wonder what spell(s) Redcloak was casting in panels 4 and 6?

[Wou]

Uh, I'm confused. Is it just a joke strip, and Tsukiko is really just looking for remote, or was she looking for phylacestry and sidetracked for a second to talk about remote? Or RC's half of the ritual maybe?

[RMS Oceanic]

I think that it's more likely that she's looking for the ritual due to the fact that she's ransacked his bookshelf, and is looking through each book; not something one does when searching for a phylactery.

That's a good point, unless she think's it's in a Shawshank Redemption style whole in the pages. Also her line: "What we're all doing. Looking for something important." It doesn't rule out the ritual, but given that they're all looking for the phylactery, I think it's a tad more likely.

Right now, from most-to-least likely, I'm thinking:

1. The Phylactery
2. The Ritual
3. Something completely different
4. The Teevo remote

[AutomatedTeller]

I assume the viridan in the title is about Redcloak. the study itself isn't blue green or green or anything.

Another quality OOtS comic. I missed Redcloak putting the phylactery in his pocket the first couple of times. What spell is he kind of middle of casting as he comes in?

[Ancalagon]

Predicting what Xykon might do is a gamble, yes. However, at this point, this gamble is very dangerous, since Xykon is angrier with Redcloak than ever and he made it perfectly clear he won't tolerate any more screw-ups. And Redcloak has far too much to lose right now, after having made Gobbotopia stable. Xykon still needs Redcloak, but he doesn't need Gobbotopia, so he might want to blow it to pieces just to teach Redcloak a lesson. And Redcloak won't risk his percious nation.

Yes, he's angry. But letting it run like it does now is certain doom for Redcloak. But I do agree with you that Redcloak already has waited way too long. He should have dealt with that problem much earlier.

But with Redcloak hitting Level 9 spells something has changed. Redcloak might still be many levels below Xykon but he is not hopelessly outgunned anymore. He is a cleric who (basically) has hit the capstone of his power, he is very smart in planning and he knows Xykon very, very well.
Redcloak is probably the person that can pose the most danger to Xykon should he just decide to do so. In all his squirmyness, I'd also not underestimate his chances and threat to Xykon. So should Redcloak decide to "do something" I do not think it would be a safe bet to set on Xykon under all circumstances.

For example, all he has to do is to polymorph a squirrel into a goblin, give it an eyepatch and a red cloak and Xykon might not even think there was something different*.

Anyway, it was about Redcloak and Tsukiko: I think Redcloak has to do something about Tsukiko and depending on how he pulls it off, he can succeed in that without Xykon giving him the boot.

[AutomatedTeller]

I assume the viridan in the title is about Redcloak. the study itself isn't blue green or green or anything.

Another quality OOtS comic. I missed Redcloak putting the phylactery in his pocket the first couple of times. What spell is he kind of middle of casting as he comes in?

I dont' really get the title. Is it a reference to Redcloak's skin color?

[Ancalagon]

Predicting what Xykon might do is a gamble, yes. However, at this point, this gamble is very dangerous, since Xykon is angrier with Redcloak than ever and he made it perfectly clear he won't tolerate any more screw-ups. And Redcloak has far too much to lose right now, after having made Gobbotopia stable. Xykon still needs Redcloak, but he doesn't need Gobbotopia, so he might want to blow it to pieces just to teach Redcloak a lesson. And Redcloak won't risk his percious nation.

Yes, he's angry. But letting it run like it does now is certain doom for Redcloak. But I do agree with you that Redcloak already has waited way too long. He should have dealt with that problem much earlier.

But with Redcloak hitting Level 9 spells something has changed. Redcloak might still be many levels below Xykon but he is not hopelessly outgunned anymore. He is a cleric who (basically) has hit the capstone of his power, he is very smart in planning and he knows Xykon very, very well.
Redcloak is probably the person that can pose the most danger to Xykon should he just decide to do so. In all his squirmyness, I'd also not underestimate his chances and threat to Xykon. So should Redcloak decide to "do something" I do not think it would be a safe bet to set on Xykon under all circumstances.

For example, all he has to do is to polymorph a squirrel into a goblin, give it an eyepatch and a red cloak and Xykon might not even think there was something different*.

Anyway, it was about Redcloak and Tsukiko: I think Redcloak has to do something about Tsukiko and depending on how he pulls it off, he can succeed in that without Xykon giving him the boot.

[RMS Oceanic]

I dont' really get the title. Is it a reference to Redcloak's skin color?

I assume it's about Redcloak, since viridian is a shade of green and he's the only green thing there. As to what it might be making a reference two, Googling "A study in" leads to three colours: Scarlet (the first Sherlock Holmes story), Pink (the first episode of the TV show Sherlock, based on the former) and Emerald (a Neil Gaiman story about a Sherlock-lookalike in a Lovecraftian environment). I'm not 100% sure how they connect to this situation.

[Holy_Knight]

As much as I'm angry at redcloak for killing Thanh, I wish he'd kill Tsukiko already.
Seriously... I was really hoping Redcloak would just blast her into oblivion here.

[Morty]

Yes, he's angry. But letting it run like it does now is certain doom for Redcloak. But I do agree with you that Redcloak already has waited way too long. He should have dealt with that problem much earlier.

But with Redcloak hitting Level 9 spells something has changed. Redcloak might still be many levels below Xykon but he is not hopelessly outgunned anymore. He is a cleric who (basically) has hit the capstone of his power, he is very smart in planning and he knows Xykon very, very well.
Redcloak is probably the person that can pose the most danger to Xykon should he just decide to do so. In all his squirmyness, I'd also not underestimate his chances and threat to Xykon. So should Redcloak decide to "do something" I do not think it would be a safe bet to set on Xykon under all circumstances.

For example, all he has to do is to polymorph a squirrel into a goblin, give it an eyepatch and a red cloak and Xykon might not even think there was something different*.

Anyway, it was about Redcloak and Tsukiko: I think Redcloak has to do something about Tsukiko and depending on how he pulls it off, he can succeed in that without Xykon giving him the boot.

Good point. It is true that Redcloak has to do something about Tsukiko; every time she manages to intimidate him she grows more bold. Besides, killing Tsukiko is likely to make Xykon angry. Her revealing that Redcloak is hiding his phylactery is guaranteed to make him blow a fuse, and Gobbotopia with it.
On a side note, waiting with something until it ceases to be an option and things generally go worse seems to be a theme with Redcloak.

[Kaytara]

Poor Tsukiko.

If I couldn't watch the Moff's interpretation of Sherlock Holmes's final confrontation with Moriarty because of a missing remote, I'd murder someone too.



I assume it's about Redcloak, since viridian is a shade of green and he's the only green thing there. As to what it might be making a reference two, Googling "A study in" leads to three colours: Scarlet (the first Sherlock Holmes story), Pink (the first episode of the TV show Sherlock, based on the former) and Emerald (a Neil Gaiman story about a Sherlock-lookalike in a Lovecraftian environment). I'm not 100% sure how they connect to this situation.

Elementary. Sherlock's Season 2 finale aired on Sunday (and became available to non-British audiences hours later).

[Draz74]

While amusing, this struck me as one of the lower-quality OotS strips.


Uh, I'm confused. Is it just a joke strip, and Tsukiko is really just looking for remote, or was she looking for phylacestry and sidetracked for a second to talk about remote? Or RC's half of the ritual maybe?

Yeah, I think this was supposed to be more obvious than it actually was. As it turns out, I can't tell the answer to this question either. I guess we have to wait for the next strip and see if Tsukiko is still making demands.

But I'm guessing it's the other half of the ritual.

The Teevo remote (as a real reason, not a gag) doesn't make any sense, because

if that was what Tsukiko "knew Redcloak was hiding," then she wouldn't just suddenly believe his denial and start sympathizing with him.
if that's her justification for killing a hobgoblin and breaking into his private study ... there's no way he's going to stand for that. :redcloak:


But meanwhile, if she's actually looking for the ritual, I don't find it believable that Redcloak would crack a joke in the middle of being pissed at her.

And I find it hard to believe that he's intimidated by her threats, either. He's got several spell levels on her. Heck, he probably has another Implosion spell hidden away that could kill her in a heartbeat. Xykon's Sense Motive isn't so great; it wouldn't be that hard to say "She was planning to betray us all; I killed her." She certainly deserves it, by Team Evil's standards, for breaking into his private room, killing his guard, destroying his (possibly expensive) wards, and threatening a hundred of his countrymen.

In fact, the only really believable reason I can think why Redcloak isn't killing her now is if he's hoping to get an opening to take out Xykon, then use Tsukiko for the arcane half of the Ritual.

In short, I find that the punchline in this comic is something of a non sequiter, and breaks the tension in an unbelievable way. Even worse, it breaks character for Redcloak to say "the monster in the dark" instead of just calling it by what it really is, unless that's still a secret (that he's trying to preserve) from Tsukiko as well as the audience.

[The Pink Ninja]

She's not after the phylectary or the remote.

It's something else. Maybe something to make Xykon like her or the details fr the Gate ritual.

Remember, Xyk needs a divine spellcaster to do the spell with him and Tsukiko is a divine spellcaster. It's been RC's biggest bargining chip up until now...

[HearTheRequiem]

[/snip]
Even worse, it breaks character for Redcloak to say "the monster in the dark" instead of just calling it by what it really is, unless that's still a secret (that he's trying to preserve) from Tsukiko as well as the audience.

Can we be sure that Tsukiko knows what the MITD is? Xykon didn't want to reveal it to anyone before "the moment was right", even going so far as to give it the Hello Dire Kitty parasol to hide its identity, so its true nature might not have been revealed to Tsukiko, so Redcloak might be justified in saying that.

On top of that, Xykon could just have said "It's a secret weapon" or something, and she'd just take that completely at face value and not question her beloved Lord Xykon. :smallredface:

[Blisstake]

I don't think the remote conversation is going to throw her off for long...

Looks like Tsukiko might be more important to the plot than I originally anticipated.

[Narren]

Thanh may be dead, but his shoes are still with us!

[AniThyng]

After reading it a couple times aloud, I'm convinced it's Tsukiko just playing along with Redcloak and agreeing that the MITD is whining about not having the remote and has too much free time.

[Demonicbunny]

Or what? You'll make me? You so much as touch me, I'll go slaughter a hundred hobgoblins and tell Xykon I needed their bodies for research. What do you think he'll say, huh?

There is only one thing to say to that.
Quickened Slay Living

[Psyren]

Humorous last panel aside, I think Tsukiko might be in trouble here.

Unless of course she really is ransacking his quarters for a remote, which I wouldn't put past her :smallsigh:

[WhamBamSam]

Nice poker face by both of them.

But Redcloak, man (ok, goblin), just grow a spine. Kill Tsukiko and turn her to dust. Just tell Xykon you killed her because she annoyed you (should he ask) and move on. You're playing rough on Team Evil and who dies surely won't complain either, remember? :smallbiggrin:Redcloak's used up a lot of his higher level spells for the day (I'm guessing the thing from the end of 826 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html) was a Gated-in Pit Fiend). So while I agree that he should kill her, he should perhaps wait a day to regain spells, and prepare the right ones. Especially since Mystic Theurges getting spell levels later than straight wizards/clerics is basically the entire reason they're considered suboptimal. It seems fitting that Redcloak should kill Tsukiko with 9ths, especially given what he just said about taking stupid risks.

After she's dead, bind her soul (another 9th level spell he'd need to have prepared incidentally) and throw the gem into the rift. Cook up some lie about her not consenting to be raised because she'd have wanted her corpse to become an undead. Xykon might call the bluff, but if he does just admit to the deed and pride in the general evilness of it all will probably distract him from exploring any reasons behind it beyond "she was getting annoying" or "Redcloak didn't like the competition."

[Necroticplague]

if that's her justification for killing a hobgoblin and breaking into his private study ... there's no way he's going to stand for that. :redcloak:


Not necissarily true, it was only one hobgoblin, Redcloak was willing to put up with Xykon killing 3 within seconds of becoming a lich for fun.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

Is this the first time the MitD has been referred to by that name?

[The Cat Goddess]

Not necissarily true, it was only one hobgoblin, Redcloak was willing to put up with Xykon killing 3 within seconds of becoming a lich for fun.

That was the old Redcloak, before his revalation during the siege of the city.

[silvadel]

Kill Her
Raise Her as an Undead
Control Undead
Her new story is she decided to go over to the dead side -- and don't I look so good in bones...

----
Xykon doesnt know what wards you put on your private study -- that gives enough of an excuse to kill her anyway -- could have even been some delayed curse or etc.

[pendell]

Great update! Soo .. *why* hasn't Redcloak killed Tsukiko again?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[rbetieh]

So she thinks Redcloak has stashed away the other half of the Spell?

Poor MITD, never any respect.

Small nitpick: sorry to anyone that has already pointed it out. The Phylactery is put away by redcloak in Panel 3 with his Left arm, yet it appears in panel 10 on the right hand side.... a rather long contortion to make while walking into his own room with Tsukiko looking at him....

[dps]

Thanks Giant!

Is this the first time the MitD has been referred to by that name?

I think so, but I'm not 100% sure--I was going to ask the same question myself.

At first, I thought she was really looking for the remote, but on re-reading the strip, I think Tsukiko was just agreeing with Redcloak in the last panel that the MitD is misguided in thinking that Redcloak has it. So I think she's looking for the other part of the ritual, but it could be the phylactery, or something completely different, and I won't completely rule out the remote.

[faustin]

Question: the title is obviously a reference to Sherlock Holmes "A Study in Scarlet", but I don´t see the similitude, really.

And yes, Tsukiko is a bitch, and doesn´t realize she is mesing with the wrong goblin (an high level goblin cleric with a thing for disproportionate retribution).

[fibonacciseries]

That's a good point, unless she think's it's in a Shawshank Redemption style hole in the pages. Also her line: "What we're all doing. Looking for something important." It doesn't rule out the ritual, but given that they're all looking for the phylactery, I think it's a tad more likely.

But if she was after the phylactery, wouldn't she say "What we're all doing. Looking for the phylactery." The fact that she's being oblique about what she's looking for makes me think that it's not the phylactery.

[Gannji]

I have been lurking in the shadows for quite some time now (watching Teevo with the MitD), but the time has come to finally step out of it :smallbiggrin:

Great strip as usual, Giant, the chemistry between Redcloak and Tsukiko is always nice to see :smallwink:

As for her reason to break into his studies, I think it's fairly obvious if one takes a closer look at the last two panels:
While saying that Redcloak is hiding something, she directly points towards the phylactery at his belt, of which a small part can be seen. He then hastily covers it with his cloak and attempts to distract her with the Teevo-thingy.
I wonder how it'll develop, but given that he appears to now follow his own agenda for good, I can only see one viable solution left for him :smallamused:

[Tom Lehmann]

The title references A Study in Scarlet (the first Sherlock Holmes story -- a novel of revenge and deduction), one of Tsukiko's eyes (blue), and RC's color (green).

[Both "A Study in Emerald" and "A Study in Pink" are derivative works based on A Study in Scarlet.]

Tsukiko's looking for the divine half of the ritual. When caught, she tries to bluff RC that she's looking for the phylactery (which RC is busily hiding in his cloak, casting Undetectable spells on, etc.). RC, caught with most of his high-powered spells used up for today and by her bluff that hits on what he's actually doing, in turn bluffs her with the Teevo remote misdirection.

This situation is unstable and can't last long, methinks ...

[Michaeler]

To all those trying to work out the title and leaning on Sherlock Holmes for a clue, you see but you do not observe.

A study is also a term for a painting which is not meant as a final product. There is one painting in the scene and it has a frame which is very close to viridian.

I am going to guess where the ritual is hidden now.

[Gift Jeraff]

But if she was after the phylactery, wouldn't she say "What we're all doing. Looking for the phylactery." The fact that she's being oblique about what she's looking for makes me think that it's not the phylactery.Also, if she's supposed to be looking for the phylactery, the Giant probably would've shown more than just books, scrolls, and papers being tossed around and examined. He could've shown the vanity dresser drawers being open, a wight looking behind the Dark One's portrait, the desk being turned over, etc. So yeah, I'm going with the divine half.

[luc258]

If Redcloak decided to attack Tsukiko then and there, what power would an evil cleric have over her undead minions?

edit: I think Red Cloak is clearly superior to Tsukiko. I guesstimate that Tsukiko is about similar level as the OOTS and Redcloak should be a few levels ahead of that.

[ShenCS]

Wondering how people were confused by the last panel. She echoes Redcloak's sentiments that MitD is annoying, quite clearly implying that she too has been asked for the remote several times, and proceeds to give a reason why neither of them would have it, i.e. they don't have time to watch Desperate Housewives all day.
She wouldn't be looking for the remote because she doesn't watch TV and she wouldn't be looking for it in Redcloak's study because she knows that he doesn't have time for that either.

On a more subjective note, I highly doubt that she's looking for the phylactery either. She has been tasked by Xykon to figure out the ritual and discovered that it was incomplete. Being unable to figure it out, she likely deduced that Redcloak is hiding the missing piece and that his study would be the logical first place to look (what with being private and bristling with wards and all). Incidentally that would explain the reference in the title (to coincide with the recent Sherlock finale. In this case, Tsukiko is the figurative Sherlock and Redcloak the suspect.
The only reason she would have to start looking for the phylactery herself (as opposed to the thousands of hobgoblins currently standing waist-deep in sewer water) is if Xykon came back and ordered her too, which seems unlikely. Personally I don't think he distrusts Redcloak's loyalty and is only having Tsukiko learn the ritual because he doubts Redcloak's effectiveness. Of course that could change should she tell him of her suspicions.

[ORione]

I was wondering if RC would show some of his newfound spine to Tsukiko, but I guess we'll have to wait a little more for that. I wonder if she's searching for something related to the ritual...

Wait, Redcloak has a spine? Since when?



And why is it always the goblins with goatees? :smallfrown:That's the 4th one by my count.Actually, looking back on Thanh, Chief, and Kubota, it's always the guys with any facial hair. :smalleek:


Don't forget Soon and Kraagor.
Hmm. Nale should be scared.




I thought it was clear, she really is looking for the remote.
No, I think she was just agreeing with how annoying the MitD was.

I think he was joking.


That was the old Redcloak, before his revalation during the siege of the city.

SoD
And they were goblins, not hobgoblins. Redcloak has always cared about green-skinned goblins.

[One Skunk Todd]

To all those trying to work out the title and leaning on Sherlock Holmes for a clue, you see but you do not observe.

A study is also a term for a painting which is not meant as a final product. There is one painting in the scene and it has a frame which is very close to viridian.

I am going to guess where the ritual is hidden now.

Beat me to it. :)

[Gift Jeraff]

edit: I think Red Cloak is clearly superior to Tsukiko. I guesstimate that Tsukiko is about similar level as the OOTS and Redcloak should be a few levels ahead of that.Your guesstimate for Redcloak is right--V recently used an 8th-level spell for the first time (likely making him/her exactly 15) and Redcloak talked about gaining a new spell level after using Implosion (making him exactly 17). I also think Tsukiko is around the OOTS's ballpark.

[Stabbey]

Redcloak would sooner kill Tsukiko than hand over the ritual. He knows that once she has the Divine half, he's expendable. If he kills her, Xykon can't kill him, he still needs him.

Besides, I doubt he ever wrote it down. In SoD, he told Xykon that the knowledge of how to perform the ritual is inherent in the Crimson Mantle.

Even if she is looking for the ritual, I don't think she's quite dumb enough to tell Redcloak to his face.

[AutomatedTeller]

To all those trying to work out the title and leaning on Sherlock Holmes for a clue, you see but you do not observe.

A study is also a term for a painting which is not meant as a final product. There is one painting in the scene and it has a frame which is very close to viridian.

I am going to guess where the ritual is hidden now.

I dunno if that's right, but I really like it!!

[SaintRidley]

I'm sure others have said as much, but I'm going to put it in my own words here, too.

Seems clear to me that Redcloak in the moment is worried she's on to him having the phylactery while she is trying to find the full ritual.

[Whiffet]

Ooo, new comic! Great thing to see after getting out of class.

So, what was Tsukiko looking for? The phylactery? The other half of the ritual? The remote control? Hmmm.

Hey, look, a picture of the Dark One! He looks angry in it. And the wight is still wearing Thanh's shoes! :smallbiggrin:

[Querzis]

That was the old Redcloak, before his revalation during the siege of the city.

Not at all. His revelation during the siege was that hobgobelins were goblins too. If he had no problem with Xykon killing goblins back then (especially since, back then, he was not Xykon underling) yeah he would be willing to let that one pass. Redcloak is an evil «every sacrfice is worth my goal» type of villain, if he view trying to kill Tsukiko here and now as a threat to his goal (which he definitly should, especially after using so many high-level spells already) then yeah, he will let it pass. If hes higher level then Tsukiko or not is irrelevant, he has already used his best spells and Tsukiko is with her minions.

[Karoug]

That's what I love about OOTS: the attention to minor details. Notice Right-eye's portrait in panel 5.... RC reminds himself every day not to let his brother's sacrifice be in vain...

[Kish]

I wonder. Xykon pushed and pushed and pushed but never pushed Redcloak far enough for his obedience to Xykon to break. Tsukiko pushing too might be too much.

[luc258]

He really has to get rid off Tsukiko though.

Her research makes him expendable and may even reveal the true nature of the ritual, which would probably be enough for Xykon to kill him.

Maybe he has some nice plan to frame her something (maybe involving the phylactery?)and have Xykon kill her when he returns or kill her himself while Xykon is away and he has a couple of thousand goblins willing to fight for him.

The big question since 827 is still what is his plan with the phylactery exactly.

Nice catch with the green painting btw, i would never have seen that double meaning of "study".

[t209]

And why is it always the goblins with goatees? :smallfrown:That's the 4th one by my count.Actually, looking back on Thanh, Chief, and Kubota, it's always the guys with any facial hair. :smalleek:
The General (Azurite), Soon Kim, Kraagor, and maybe Hinjo is next!
Then Nale and the barkeep (from the West).
(Singing in Sons of Skyrim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMKJ9fDM2mo) 1:27))

[Whiffet]

That's what I love about OOTS: the attention to minor details. Notice Right-eye's portrait in panel 5.... RC reminds himself every day not to let his brother's sacrifice be in vain...

What now? :smallconfused: I see the Dark One, but no Right-Eye.

[t209]

He really has to get rid off Tsukiko though.

Her research makes him expendable and may even reveal the true nature of the ritual, which would probably be enough for Xykon to kill him.

Maybe he has some nice plan to frame her something (maybe involving the phylactery?)and have Xykon kill her when he returns or kill her himself while Xykon is away and he has a couple of thousand goblins willing to fight for him.

The big question since 827 is still what is his plan with the phylactery exactly.

Nice catch with the green painting btw, i would never have seen that double meaning of "study".
Blackmail? or something to gain leverage.
I hope they manage to fight eachother while azurites and opportunists to take Azure City which would cripple their foot hold.

[Gift Jeraff]

Don't forget Soon and Kraagor.
Hmm. Nale should be scared.
The General (Azurite), Soon Kim, Kraagor, and maybe Hinjo is next!
Then Nale and the barkeep (from the West).I also forgot Dorukan, and Durkon's death prophecy. I also think both Ian and Geoff are quite high on the "likely to die" list. :smalltongue:

[SamBurke]

Gotta love that last line.

I don't get the title, though.

[brionl]

To all those trying to work out the title and leaning on Sherlock Holmes for a clue, you see but you do not observe.

A study is also a term for a painting which is not meant as a final product. There is one painting in the scene and it has a frame which is very close to viridian.

I am going to guess where the ritual is hidden now.

I'm assuming Redcloak learned the ritual directly from The Dark One, power of the Red Cloak and all that. Priests don't need spell books. Why would he have his half of the ritual written down at all?

[UtimaII]

And why is it always the goblins with goatees? :smallfrown:That's the 4th one by my count.Actually, looking back on Thanh, Chief, and Kubota, it's always the guys with any facial hair. :smalleek:

The goblin was elderly, that's why he had a beard/goatee.

As to why Redcloak hasn't killed Tsukiko, it's because the Giant has plans for her in the future. She has plot immunity! :smallwink:

[silvadel]

Actually I dont think redcloak even KNOWS that Xykon has Tsuikiko working on figuring out the ritual... If RC knew that they were actively trying to figure out the divine half, it would change things.

And does that make facial hair and anti-name?

[Alagaesian]

I don't think most people (Tsukiko included) are taking into account how Redcloak got the ritual. He wrote down Xykon's half and gave it to him, but Redcloak never had any reason to write his own half down.
You know, with the whole "knowledge burned into his brain by the Dark One" thing. Why would Redcloak ever write his half down? Even if he died, another goblin cleric would take up the Crimson Mantle and learn it the same way he did.
If Tsukiko's raiding his study for the ritual, she's never going to find it. He already has it committed to memory. She might pass off her breaking-and-entering as an attempt to get the phylactery, but depending on how well she can bluff her way out of this, she might have just tipped Redcloak off.

EDIT: Half-ninja'd by brionl.

[WickedWizard17]

Yay, it's Tsukiko and the Booted Wight! . . . Am I the only one here who likes her? Lol. I wonder why she thinks Redcloak is actually hiding it? . . . Is he actually hiding it? Since that ritual Tsukiko was working on was only half of it, it must have been the arcane half that Redcloak gave Xykon, and he kept the Divine? . . . AGH TOMORROW'S FRIDAY. Betcha 5 gp we have to wait until Monday for answers. :smallsigh:

[Nevereatcars]

I love Tsukiko!

[hamishspence]

Googling "A study in" leads to three colours: Scarlet (the first Sherlock Holmes story), Pink (the first episode of the TV show Sherlock, based on the former) and Emerald (a Neil Gaiman story about a Sherlock-lookalike in a Lovecraftian environment). I'm not 100% sure how they connect to this situation.

A Study in Emerald is good. With a cleverly ironic reveal:

that the detective is Moriarty.

[Metal Archon]

Giving the magical key that bypasses all the wards in the study to the old Janitor-type Hobgoblin doesn't seem like such a good idea now, does it? Especially when you likely have half of a ritual hidden in there that your successor-to-be has been looking for. And also your boss, who will probably be just a teency bit frustrated you've been keeping it from them this whole time.

[Kish]

And Redcloak won't risk his percious nation.
He's still Redcloak. He'd tear Gobbotopia down with his own hands if that was what he had to do to keep following the prize he murdered his baby brother for. He'd whine. He'd repeat "for the good of the goblin people" a lot. But he'd do it.

[Khaethrag]

He's still Redcloak. He'd tear Gobbotopia down with his own hands if that was what he had to do to keep following the prize he murdered his baby brother for. He'd whine. He'd repeat "for the good of the goblin people" a lot. But he'd do it.

This is truth.

[Heksefatter]

Team Evil is undergoing a bit of friendly rivalry these days.

[HearTheRequiem]

[/snip].

Not to be annoying, but should this maybe be spoilered?

[pasko77]

There is something strange in the layout.
827 ends with a half panel, 828 doesn't have its conclusion.
Just saying.

[Nohar]

I don't think RC wrote down his part of the ritual. He doesn't need to. However, the tension betwen the antogonists never was so high. Tsukiko doesn't even try to be subtle : she broke into RC's office, killed the guard and outright told RC that she believed he hidded something.

Now, the phrasing is interesting : she told him that she was looking for something, "something I think we both know that you're hiding". She didn't say what. She may be trying to bluff RC, trying to trick him into spilling the beans about the ritual or something else : she may not know exactly what she's looking for, only that her half of the ritual seems to be incomplete and that RC may have hidden the other part on purpose (the worse is to be expected if she discovered exactly what the true intent of the ritual is). She doesn't know yet that RC found the phylactery : she was pointing at him the accusatory finger, not pointing the phylactery specifically (or else, she wouldn't have bothered with such display : I'm not in Tsukiko's head, but I could see her attacking RC on the spot or run to Xykon, this strip made it obvious that she doesn't care about subtlety at this point).

And, no, she isn't looking for the TV remote : RC was bluffing, and she only agreed that the MitD is annoying.

Anyway, things are not looking good for RC : he's walking on thin ice here. One bad step, and everything will go awry.

[Totally Guy]

Redcloak needs to find a way to get Tsukiko killed off. Planting the phylactery on her might do it but it'd cost him whatever advantage hiding the phylactery would give him.

[Kish]

Not to be annoying, but should this maybe be spoilered?
Probably, yes.

[Flame of Anor]

I think maybe no one has gotten the full import of the Sherlock Holmes reference by now. Of course the surface reference is to A Study in Scarlet, but perhaps that's meant to put us in mind of another Holmes story, A Scandal in Bohemia. In Scandal, Holmes tricks Irene Adler out of her house (with a smoke bomb, if it matters) then runs in and attempts to steal some incriminating evidence from her...but she has hidden it somewhere else, plus she comes back and catches him in the act. Now, substitute Tsukiko for Holmes, and Redcloak for Irene Adler. Does this start looking creepily familiar?


So which one is the lighthouse? My money is on RedCloak.

Mine, too.

[Caractacus]

But if she was after the phylactery, wouldn't she say "What we're all doing. Looking for the phylactery." The fact that she's being oblique about what she's looking for makes me think that it's not the phylactery.

I think I agree with this. There's a reason not just for Tsukiko to say this but for Rich to make her say it...

Things are hotting up! :smallcool:


Giving the magical key that bypasses all the wards in the study to the old Janitor-type Hobgoblin doesn't seem like such a good idea now, does it? Especially when you likely have half of a ritual hidden in there that your successor-to-be has been looking for. And also your boss, who will probably be just a teency bit frustrated you've been keeping it from them this whole time.

I think it's clear that Xykon knows that Redcloak is needed for the ritual, so unless he forgot to tell Tsukiko, I can't see how her discovering that Redcloak is needed for half of it is going to move Xykon one way or another.



She doesn't know yet that RC found the phylactery : she was pointing at him the accusatory finger, not pointing the phylactery specifically (or else, she wouldn't have bothered with such display : I'm not in Tsukiko's head, but I could see her attacking RC on the spot or run to Xykon, this strip made it obvious that she doesn't care about subtlety at this point).

If he just walked in with it visibly on his person, that is a bad way to be 'hiding' something.

Also, this would require that she felt that the phylactery should have been found by now - to the point that she decided that a more likely explanation was that he had already found it (or had had it all along). We haven't had any hints of this thus far. Now sometimes one is given a back-explanation as to why a character thinks the way s/he does, but normally the reader is privy to at least some of it.

[ORione]

That's what I love about OOTS: the attention to minor details. Notice Right-eye's portrait in panel 5.... RC reminds himself every day not to let his brother's sacrifice be in vain...

That's the Dark One.

[MDR]

And so the biggest weapon against RC is used. Threats against those he cares about. Ironic that it is an evil person using this time-honored threat against another evil person. I bet she really enjoys being able to push around a cleric that is so much more powerful than she.

RC should have immediately threatened to use his cleric powers and power over the (hob)goblins to destroy every undead in the city if she so much as cast Cause Minor on one of his subjects. She cares for her undead just as much as he cares for his citizens.

Killing her and raising her as an undead that has to obey him would be a fun form of revenge as well.

Her searching for the remote is actually a possiblity. She might need it to fulfil her promise to help MiTD find O'Chul. My gut tells me she was looking for the divine part of the ritual though, not realizing it is in his head, and not written down.

My thoughts: RC is letting this go because he is planning on doing the exact same thing to her, while planting evidence that she had the amulet and was planning on using it in some way. He needs to get rid of her, she is a threat to his position right now.

[MoonCat]

Oh Giant. Giant, Giant, Giant.

YOU ROCK

[dps]

I'm assuming Redcloak learned the ritual directly from The Dark One, power of the Red Cloak and all that. Priests don't need spell books. Why would he have his half of the ritual written down at all?

I don't know. While Redcloak wouldn't have any need to write it down per se, he is so Lawful that he's organized to the point of being anal. He may have it and all his other divine spells written down, alphabetized and color-coded.

OTOH, he's also pragmatic, and may realize that some things are so secret that they shouldn't be written down.

[Morty]

He's still Redcloak. He'd tear Gobbotopia down with his own hands if that was what he had to do to keep following the prize he murdered his baby brother for. He'd whine. He'd repeat "for the good of the goblin people" a lot. But he'd do it.

If given a choice between following the Plan and keeping Gobbotopia, yes. But I honestly don't think he'd do anything to threaten Gobbotopia unless the Plan absolutely required it, like by ticking Xykon off by killing Tsukiko. That said, I do expect him to have to choose between following the Plan and preserving Gobbotopia at some point.

[MDR]

Probably, yes.

Honest question, where can I find where it lists what should be under a Spoiler tag? SoD has been out for a long time, at what point should we just say it is Okay to discuss? I've been looking in the Rules, but cannot find it.

And just so I am not accused of trying to derail this thread, is this the first time that Red Cloak has actually called the Monster in the Dark, 'monster in the dark'? I smiled when he referred to him as such, and couldn't remember another time he has done so. Maybe I just have not been paying attention....

[Azukar]

Honest question, where can I find where it lists what should be under a Spoiler tag? SoD has been out for a long time, at what point should we just say it is Okay to discuss? I've been looking in the Rules, but cannot find it.

I don't know that it's a rule so much as etiquette. We can generally assume anyone reading this forum has read all the web-based comics, but possibly not all of the books.

For example, I live in Australia, and coming across the books isn't easy. I found Start of Darkness last year, but I still haven't read On the Origin of PCs. I for one wouldn't like people to post unmarked spoilers about that book in this discussion thread.

[RMS Oceanic]

In general it's accepted that we spoiler Start of Darkness and Origin of PCs, because unlike the main strip these are not readily available.

[ti'esar]

The plot, as they say, thickens. It's starting to definitely look like Team Evil has begun its split, though there's far too much of the story left for it to become open at this point.

[MDR]

In general it's accepted that we spoiler Start of Darkness and Origin of PCs, because unlike the main strip these are not readily available.

Okie Dokie, thanks!

[The Pilgrim]

Here you have... Tsukiko looking for the other part of the Ritual.

BTW, I suppose Redcloack will raise the dead hobbo this time.

[Azukar]

Possibly this has been posited already, but Tsukiko and the wights are looking through Redcloak's books, not his chest of drawers and other storage. They're not looking for the phylactery.

I think it's pretty definitely the divine half of the ritual.

[Aidjn]

The problem with Redcloak is he's not willing to do anything, despite Xykon needing him and not needing Tsukiko. And he's evil, and hates humans to boot- he should have no problem using Geas on her, let alone killing her.

[silvadel]

Giving the magical key that bypasses all the wards in the study to the old Janitor-type Hobgoblin doesn't seem like such a good idea now, does it? Especially when you likely have half of a ritual hidden in there that your successor-to-be has been looking for. And also your boss, who will probably be just a teency bit frustrated you've been keeping it from them this whole time.

We still can't be certain that there weren't any wards that the key does NOT bypass that affect anyone but goblinkind. 30d6 of kill all humans.

[Mercenary Pen]

Killing her and raising her as an undead that has to obey him would be a fun form of revenge as well.

We don't even really need the undead part of that- Redcloak's at a high enough level that he's got access to spells like Geas (even if he needs a proxy to cast it for him)... or he could just threaten to heal the wight with positive energy spells.

[warmachine]

This is why I'd never work for any Team Evil in any cosmos. Sooner or later, your so called allies will mess you or your dependents around until you're forced to kill them. The Good Guys, despite having to save every backwater peasant village on the way, are less hassle in the end.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmm... The previous strip was a page and a half, and this one was a single page, instead of half a page and a page. I guess the Giant is setting up a blank spot for commentary when the book comes out.

Possibly to explain why Redcloak hasn't turned Tsukiko into a greasy smear, to be fed to her creations. I mean seriously! Redcloak is a Level 17 LE cleric with an Artifact from his god. While Xykon is dangerous to Redcloak, Tsukiko is just annoying. And since Redcloak is Evil, he's not restrained like Roy was in dealing with Miko. Good Guys have to put up with crap. Bad guys? Not so much.

[skaddix]

Hmm... The previous strip was a page and a half, and this one was a single page, instead of half a page and a page. I guess the Giant is setting up a blank spot for commentary when the book comes out.

Possibly to explain why Redcloak hasn't turned Tsukiko into a greasy smear, to be fed to her creations. I mean seriously! Redcloak is a Level 17 LE cleric with an Artifact from his god. While Xykon is dangerous to Redcloak, Tsukiko is just annoying. And since Redcloak is Evil, he's not restrained like Roy was in dealing with Miko. Good Guys have to put up with crap. Bad guys? Not so much.

Tsukiko has more spells and Redcloak burned most of his fighting the Resistance not to mention he has Xykon's Phylactery. He is not going to be able to win this quick enough that she cannot send a wight to alert Xykon.

[xroads]

Bummer! I hate seeing RC humbled after such a display.

But at least it shows his high levels of clerical wisdom. Not too many people would be so willing to be submissive to an opponent they know they can squash.

[thereaper]

I highly expect he's planning to set up Tsukiko with the phylactery, and have Xykon solve the problem.

[Tobimaro]

So not all is well with Team Evil. I'm only hoping its all about the Teevo's remote. Otherwise the bloodbath will be worse than when they took over the city. :smallamused:

[Kairamek]

Well she's not wrong. It is harder to break in when it's occupied.

[skaddix]

I highly expect he's planning to set up Tsukiko with the phylactery, and have Xykon solve the problem.

That is not going to work very well at all. Tsukiko's word versus redcloak equals redcloak screwed.

[Pronounceable]

Wrong Eye can and should command those wights and have them tear her apart. It would be a nice and fitting end for her to be consumed by her babies. It's not like Xykon will cry himself to sleep over Tsukiko's loss.

And why's everyone thinking Wrong Eye is the one in trouble here? He's stronger and they're Team Evil, as noted by Xykon upon recruiting Tsukiko.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Tsukiko has more spells and Redcloak burned most of his fighting the Resistance not to mention he has Xykon's Phylactery. He is not going to be able to win this quick enough that she cannot send a wight to alert Xykon.

She has more spells at the moment, but Redcloak doesn't normally burn through spells like that every day. Tsukiko IS that annoying everyday. :smallsigh:

If the MitD is able to get into Tsukiko's room, Redcloak should not have any problem either. A few rounds later, dinner time for the wights.

I agree with the general consensus that Tsukiko broke into Redcloak's room to find the other half of the spell, since the MitD was kind enough to point out that was what she was missing. Since Redcloak has the ritual in his mind, he doesn't need to have it written down anywhere. So Tsukiko will never find it, no matter how often she breaks into his bedroom and reads his diary.

[The Pilgrim]

Tsukiko has more spells and Redcloak burned most of his fighting the Resistance not to mention he has Xykon's Phylactery. He is not going to be able to win this quick enough that she cannot send a wight to alert Xykon.

Tsukiko has more spells than Redcloak... so what? Having a thousand spells in the quiver is useless when you are going to be dead in one round. Two, tops.

Not only is she lower level than Redcloak, but also, since she is a multiclass, her caster levels in Arcane and Divine magic are, at least, 2 levels behind what a single-class caster of her same level would be. Translation: Redcloak can cast MUCH more powerful mojo than her. She probably lacks any spell that can one-shot Redcloak, while he has plenty ones that can off her instantly.

In the battle against the Resistance, Recloak didn't burnt more than 3 or 4 spells. Pretty high level, but Redcloak doesn't needs level 8 and 9 spells to vaporize Tsukiko. Destruction and Disintegrate are 7th-Level Spells and Reddy has got enough of those to toast Tsukiko without problems (and, as she is a Mystic Teurge, her Fortitude save is pretty crappy).

[skaddix]

Wrong Eye can and should command those wights and have them tear her apart. It would be a nice and fitting end for her to be consumed by her babies. It's not like Xykon will cry himself to sleep over Tsukiko's loss.

And why's everyone thinking Wrong Eye is the one in trouble here? He's stronger and they're Team Evil, as noted by Xykon upon recruiting Tsukiko.

Because Wrong Eye is at his lowest point with Xykon. He has burned all his credit. Xykon is not an idiot either so most likely he would just force Wrong Eye to resurrect not to mention the goblin has no idea what Tsukiko has told Xykon in advanced. Also as noted several times Wrong Eye burned a lot of spells against the Resistance.

[skaddix]

Tsukiko has more spells than Redcloak... so what? Having a thousand spells in the quiver is useless when you are going to be dead in one round. Two, tops.

Not only is she lower level than Redcloak, but also, since she is a multiclass, her caster levels in Arcane and Divine magic are, at least, 2 levels behind what a single-class caster of her same level would be. Translation: Redcloak can cast MUCH more powerful mojo than her. She probably lacks any spell that can one-shot Redcloak, while he has plenty ones that can off her instantly.

In the battle against the Resistance, Recloak didn't burnt more than 3 or 4 spells. Pretty high level, but Redcloak doesn't needs level 8 and 9 spells to vaporize Tsukiko. Destruction and Disintegrate are 7th-Level Spells and Reddy has got enough of those to toast Tsukiko without problems (and, as she is a Mystic Teurge, her Fortitude save is pretty crappy).

Who knows Tsukiko could have prepped for this fight also we saw Redcloak cast a few spells but since most of the resistance was off paneled no idea how much he cast before the rest got back.

[Belsirk]

Dark Plots destroyed again...


Nice comic!

[Kaulguard]

The remote comment was clearly a witticism, which Tsukiko recognized and responded to in the same vein. Not even a red herring, just a side note, utilized for punch line only. The Sherlock Holmes reference cannot be denied, and I won't rule out the painting either. This sort of multiple meaning in the title is a signature move of the Giant, and truly excellent.

So, we have a study, and a clash between the Green and the Blue. We have a painting (a study) of a slain brother framed in the color in question. We have a reference to the first Sherlock Holmes story. Frankly, I think we are seeing the opening scene of a battle of wits, possibly involving poison.

Good times! Thanks Giant!

[rman]

Right now I expect Red Cloak is out a few spell slots so the tactic is delay. He will be able to cast Implosion again tomorrow.

Not sure what level Tusuiko is but I doubt she could stand up to the force Red Cloak had in the caverns.

[JoseB]

<...>We have a painting (a study) of a slain brother framed in the color in question <...>

Others have said it before, but that is not Right-Eye's portrait. It is a portrait of the Dark One, the God of Goblinkind. Check out its skin colour -- It's purple. The distinctive skin colour of the Dark One. Right-Eye was your average garden-variety green goblin.

[The Pilgrim]

Who knows Tsukiko could have prepped for this fight also we saw Redcloak cast a few spells but since most of the resistance was off paneled no idea how much he cast before the rest got back.

Redcloak has, like, 5 caster levels over her (if we assume her to be 14). He can vaporize her even with second rate stuff. Plus, he has 17d8 hit points vs Tsukiko's 12d4+2d8.

If it comes to a "Save or Die" Duel like the one he fought against the High Cleric of the Twelve Goods, it will be a matter of Fortitude Saves. And RC's fort save, as a Cleric, is solid. While Tsukiko's, as a Mystic Theurge, is mediocre. And RC will have to save vs a DC equivalent of a 12th caster, while Tsukiko will have to save vs the DC of a 17th. Translation: while RC will have an even easier time to save for several panels like he did back in the battle for Azure City, Tsukiko (whose save is much worse than the High Cleric's) will ZOT after one or two pannels.

If it comes to a fight: She.Is.Toast.

[skaddix]

Right now I expect Red Cloak is out a few spell slots so the tactic is delay. He will be able to cast Implosion again tomorrow.

Not sure what level Tusuiko is but I doubt she could stand up to the force Red Cloak had in the caverns.

Tommorrow is not going to help him unless he plans to use it on her while he is fighting Tarquin's Grand Alliance, the OOTS and whoever at the gate.

General assumption is she is 15 which is to say around the OOTS level.

[skaddix]

Redcloak has, like, 5 caster levels over her (if we assume her to be 14). He can vaporize her even with second rate stuff. Plus, he has 17d8 hit points vs Tsukiko's 12d4+2d8.

If it comes to a "Save or Die" Duel like the one he fought against the High Cleric of the Twelve Goods, it will be a matter of Fortitude Saves. And RC's fort save, as a Cleric, is solid. While Tsukiko's, as a Mystic Theurge, is mediocre. And RC will have to save vs a DC equivalent of a 12th caster, while Tsukiko will have to save vs the DC of a 17th.

If it comes to a fight: She.Is.Toast.

The main problem for RC besides being down spells is how he offers a plausible explanation to Xykon when he is already on the outs in the first place. Xykon is not dumb.

[fractal]

Right now I expect Red Cloak is out a few spell slots so the tactic is delay. He will be able to cast Implosion again tomorrow.

Not sure what level Tusuiko is but I doubt she could stand up to the force Red Cloak had in the caverns.Right. Red Cloak would (presumably) lose to the full OotS, but easily trounce any single member, and it seemed like Tsukiko and Haley were about the same level. They're probably levels 17 and 15, and Mystic Theurge is a bit underpowered compared to pure Cleric. If you rub Redcloak's 8th and 9th level spells off the list, though, then it's probably a toss-up, especially since Tsukiko may have prepared for this specific conflict today.

[The Pilgrim]

The main problem for RC besides being down spells is how he offers a plausible explanation to Xykon when he is already on the outs in the first place. Xykon is not dumb.

That's another debate. We were debating about how well would RC fare against Tsukiko. How he would have to weasel off Xykon (if the Lich really cares about the chick being killed), is another issue.

BTW, Xykon has no way to know how many spells RC has left.

[skaddix]

That's another debate. We were debating about how well would RC fare against Tsukiko. How he would have to weasel off Xykon (if the Lich really cares about the chick being killed), is another issue.

BTW, Xykon has no way to know how many spells RC has left.

As was noted depends on how many 8th and 9th Level Spells he has.

[M.A.D]

Heheh, much appreciate the Sherlock Holmes joke. I wonder if it has anything to do with that new series in the UK

[The Pilgrim]

As was noted depends on how many 8th and 9th Level Spells he has.

RC can one-shot Tsukiko with 7th level spells (to which Tsukiko likely has no access). Gosh, since she has about half the hit points of RC, and worse fort saves, even 5th or 6th level spells can suffice.

[Anarion]

If Tsukiko was confident that she could take Redcloak, she wouldn't have made that threat about killing 100 hobgoblins. People don't come up with inventive ways to blackmail someone else when they don't feel threatened, they just ignore the (weaker) person threatening them.

Redcloak, for his part, should have called Tsukiko's bluff. Yes, he's trying to save goblin lives now, but he's just opened himself up to to having Tsukiko walk all over him and do as she pleases, so long as she threatens hobgoblin lives each time.

Honestly, I'd bet that Tsukiko was bluffing because she only cares about herself and her undead. She wouldn't want to risk any harm coming to her, even if she did get to kill 100 hobgoblins later in retribution. It's like the situation where a criminal takes a single hostage. The criminal can't actually kill the hostage, because if he/she does it then the entire police force will swoop down on the person.

[Blaznak]

Ok.... Now what?

[Ridureyu]

I'm surprised he didn't point out that he could kill her and tell Xykon she was betraying him.

Or do it. Any time your henchman says, "I can do what I want, and you can't do anything" is the time to kill them without saying another word. DOn't even gloat. Hang them on their own intestines.

[Doug Lampert]

The problem with Redcloak is he's not willing to do anything, despite Xykon needing him and not needing Tsukiko. And he's evil, and hates humans to boot- he should have no problem using Geas on her, let alone killing her.
Geas has a ten minute casting time, Tsukiko can teleport, good luck with that.

Redcloak threw at least two damaging attacks at Tsukiko when he first met her to try to kill her, and she's probably seen more combat than he has since then. She's likely level 16 (you catch up FAST when adventuring with higher level people), which gives her level 7 spells on both sides, Redcloak has spent a LOT of high level slots today. And he's a cowardly slime, he's not taking her on here and now, especially not without being SURE she doesn't have X's backing on whatever she's doing.


RC can one-shot Tsukiko with 7th level spells (to which Tsukiko likely has no access). Gosh, since she has about half the hit points of RC, and worse fort saves, even 5th or 6th level spells can suffice.

Tsukiko was probably MUCH FURTHER behind Redcloak when he dropped a blade barrier and one of his best elementals on her without seriusly hurting her. Again, lower level characters catch up, they need less XP to level and get far more, if she was two levels lower she'd level nearly twice as fast and we KNOW Red Cloak has leveled since then.

Good luck with the belief that he can take her with one or two low level direct damage spells. He can take her, but doing so TODAY will be difficult.

[skaddix]

I'm surprised he didn't point out that he could kill her and tell Xykon she was betraying him.

Or do it. Any time your henchman says, "I can do what I want, and you can't do anything" is the time to kill them without saying another word. DOn't even gloat. Hang them on their own intestines.

I doubt Xykon would believe RC coming to him and saying Tsukiko is a traitor.

Also Tsukiko does not work for RC, she is not his henchman. RC is in charge of Goblinoids only.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

But why would Xykon even care? I mean, Tsukiko loves Xykon enough for both of them, but Xykon couldn't give a rat's rear end less for Tsukiko...

Tsukiko knows Redcloak knows or should know the Divine half of the spell. Xykon and Redcloak can cast both halves, and theoretically Tsukiko could by herself. Not likely, but she thinks has the ability to fill in for Redcloak for Xykon. How long until Xykon thinks Tsukiko is a threat, however minor, to his own goals? If she can take over a gate by herself, even in theory, Xykon won't even leave a greasy smear. Just Meteor Strike her into a fine mist.

[Quarion Nailo]

So this is a 'study in viridian' - which I assume is goblinoid blood. Now, viridian is the color of chromium (III) oxide. Now, chromium can have many different forms carrying various amounts of oxygen. So presumably the evolution of goblin races led them to adopt a chromium-based oxygen-carrier, with chromium (III) oxide being the oxygen carrying state. My guess is that there a couple of suitable amino acids present to displace the oxygen in the deoxygenated form.

Or various copper oxides. It's quite likely that goblins have hemocyanin in their blood instead of hemoglobin, which has copper instead of iron. Hemocyanin is found in lots of arthropods, which have 'blue blood'.

[Wanderer]

Redcloak... Harm + Inflict Critical Wounds. Or Harm + Disintegrate. Or any combination of Harm with another spell that causes damage. Just kill her, already!

[Ridureyu]

I doubt Xykon would believe RC coming to him and saying Tsukiko is a traitor.

Also Tsukiko does not work for RC, she is not his henchman. RC is in charge of Goblinoids only.

He already found her rifling around in forbidden areas. It shouldn't be that hard - or at least no harder than Tsukiko's "I just killed all the goblins" excuse. And the fight really wouldn't be that difficult - implode her on the surprise round. If she survives, coup de grace her.

[Forikroder]

RC is jsut being safe, as long as he can prevent them from actually seeing it they have no way of finding it, Tsukiko is an annoyance not a threat

and if Xykon is even somehwat suspicious of RC no excuse would stop Tsukiko from being raised

[Starhawk]

*sigh*

I am so upset with you Giant for making me hate Redcloak the last few episodes and then side with him this episode.

Stop toying with my affections!

[Anarion]

Geas has a ten minute casting time, Tsukiko can teleport, good luck with that.

Redcloak threw at least two damaging attacks at Tsukiko when he first met her to try to kill her, and she's probably seen more combat than he has since then. She's likely level 16 (you catch up FAST when adventuring with higher level people), which gives her level 7 spells on both sides, Redcloak has spent a LOT of high level slots today. And he's a cowardly slime, he's not taking her on here and now, especially not without being SURE she doesn't have X's backing on whatever she's doing.



Tsukiko was probably MUCH FURTHER behind Redcloak when he dropped a blade barrier and one of his best elementals on her without seriusly hurting her. Again, lower level characters catch up, they need less XP to level and get far more, if she was two levels lower she'd level nearly twice as fast and we KNOW Red Cloak has leveled since then.

Good luck with the belief that he can take her with one or two low level direct damage spells. He can take her, but doing so TODAY will be difficult.

Tsukiko didn't actually walk through the blade barrier in that first meeting, instead she stumbled backwards to avoid it. The fact that she wasn't willing to pass through it, whereas Haley, Elan, and even V were later willing to run through a blade barrier actually suggests that Tsukiko is on the lower end of the HP pool for mid to high level characters. I'd bet 1 harm+1 disintegrate would be more than enough to finish her considering her likely poor fort save.

Of course, preparation is key for spellcasters, so if Tsukiko was expecting to fight and had time to ready a scroll of spell turning or something then things could go pretty badly for Redcloak, so he does have reason to be cautious.

[Red XIV]

Redcloak needs to find a way to get Tsukiko killed off. Planting the phylactery on her might do it but it'd cost him whatever advantage hiding the phylactery would give him.
Unless he planted a fake one on her. Given the warding on the phylactery, it might not be possible magically distinguish the real one from a fake.


Tommorrow is not going to help him unless he plans to use it on her while he is fighting Tarquin's Grand Alliance, the OOTS and whoever at the gate.
So far, neither Xykon nor Tsukiko knows that the phylactery has been found. (And hell, we don't even know where Xykon is right now, though he seems to still be out of town.) Team Evil won't be moving on to Girard's Gate until Redcloak passes on that information.

[Forikroder]

Unless he planted a fake one on her. Given the warding on the phylactery, it might not be possible magically distinguish the real one from a fake.

well when Xykons sees a phylactery lacking tons of high level arcane magic on it im pretty sure hell figure out its a fake

[RickDaily12]

I wonder just how vulnerable Tsukiko actually is in regards to low lifepoints. To those who claim she has very little chance of surviving Redcloak, look at Panel 1.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html

Alright, so. According to the Class-Level Geekery, it is safe to assume Haley is a level 15 Rogue. She just fired three Point Blank Rapid Shot Sneak Attacks, each dealing 3(1d8) arrow damage, + 3(8d6) Sneak Attack Damage, + 3(1d6) Flaming Arrow damage (assuming the potion gave the spell) +1 on the arrows, + 3(3) on the bow for each arrow.

So, a grand total of 3d8 + 27d6 + 12 and Tsukiko was still on her feet.

Level miscalculations aside, she took that and still kept fighting without batting an eye, she stopped to heal, but if Redcloak started firing his few remaining powerful spells that he has left (Two ninth level spell slots of his plus whatever spells he used to start summoning all those minions are gone now) I'm assuming that if Redcloak tried to attack Tsukiko, the fight would be a heck of a lot more closer than just "a toss-up".

[Dracarot]

The remote comment was clearly a witticism, which Tsukiko recognized and responded to in the same vein. Not even a red herring, just a side note, utilized for punch line only. The Sherlock Holmes reference cannot be denied, and I won't rule out the painting either. This sort of multiple meaning in the title is a signature move of the Giant, and truly excellent.

So, we have a study, and a clash between the Green and the Blue. We have a painting (a study) of a slain brother framed in the color in question. We have a reference to the first Sherlock Holmes story. Frankly, I think we are seeing the opening scene of a battle of wits, possibly involving poison.

Good times! Thanks Giant!

Indeed, this will require deductive and investigative skills beyond the norm.

At least until the comic that gives the answer pops up in which case all it will require is a look through the archives.

[eras10]

Holy smokes, I can't believe it's actually happening right now! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12554210#post12554210)

Even though that whole thread is dedicated to the idea that it's actually happening right now, and even though the whole previous Team Evil Mini-Arc logically progresses here... this is it, folks!

Of course, disclaimer, Rich is a master at subverting expectations, so on and so forth, all true. And yes, it's possible that this is an anticlimax tension-building moment. But personally I doubt it. Tsuikko is, right now, about to blow the increasingly narrow balance of Team Evil to shreds.

For some reason [URL="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/guster/centerofattention.html"]this song is in my my head..

One of us...doot doot doo doo.. won't last the night...

[MoonCat]

Goddammit Redcloak disintegrate the ***** already will ya. You know you want to.

EDIT: Goddammit I thought there was a censor. Whelp.

There is a censor. if the word passes the censor normally, then it's okay.

[eras10]

So, a grand total of 3d8 + 27d6 + 12 and Tsukiko was still on her feet.

This is one of those times when paying too much attention to the comic is actually misleading. I don't think that was intended to show off Tsuikko's toughness. It just made sense for Haley to sneak attack, and plot required Tsuikko to survive.

Rich uses spells cast to indicate levels because his characters openly refer to it. Tsuikko having 3X too many hitpoints is unlikely to stand up later in the story. In short, probably a fluke.

[Forikroder]

This is one of those times when paying too much attention to the comic is actually misleading. I don't think that was intended to show off Tsuikko's toughness. It just made sense for Haley to sneak attack, and plot required Tsuikko to survive.

Rich uses spells cast to indicate levels because his characters openly refer to it. Tsuikko having 3X too many hitpoints is unlikely to stand up later in the story. In short, probably a fluke.

assuming she didnt have some sort of DR with the use of magic items/spells/potions or other buffs

she did go out of her way to specifically prepare a anti-haley spell list so its not like Tsukiko was unprepared

[BrockGarthok]

Or various copper oxides. It's quite likely that goblins have hemocyanin in their blood instead of hemoglobin, which has copper instead of iron. Hemocyanin is found in lots of arthropods, which have 'blue blood'.

I just thought it was some sort of obscure reference to Beetlejuice.

[RickDaily12]

Although it is true that Rich is easily one to throw his hands up to say "screw the rules, I have plot", that is exactly why I think that Tsukiko might not be an easy fight for Redcloak at this stage of the game.

Redcloak has burned away almost, if not, all of his 7-9th level spell slots, likely with a few buffers at the Resistance Headquarters.

Tsukiko has casted nothing on panel and has nothing good to do on a daily schedule besides to provoke Redcloak. However, evidence suggests she has the hitpoints to withstand any super-damage dealing spells Redcloak might toss out at her. If he tries to cast any "Instant Death" spells, she could always counterspell. Is it really safe to say Tsukiko is down for the count if he attacks?

Which is why I'm saying that if Tsukiko walks out in a casket within the next 10 strips, it's because of "screw the rules I have plot", and not over character-level compatabilty tilting in Redcloak's Favour.

[Forikroder]

Although it is true that Rich is easily one to throw his hands up to say "screw the rules, I have plot", that is exactly why I think that Tsukiko might not be an easy fight for Redcloak at this stage of the game.

Redcloak has burned away almost, if not, all of his 7-9th level spell slots, likely with a few buffers at the Resistance Headquarters.

Tsukiko has casted nothing on panel and has nothing good to do on a daily schedule besides to provoke Redcloak. However, evidence suggests she has the hitpoints to withstand any super-damage dealing spells Redcloak might toss out at her. If he tries to cast any "Instant Death" spells, she could always counterspell. Is it really safe to say Tsukiko is down for the count if he attacks?

Which is why I'm saying that if Tsukiko walks out in a casket within the next 10 strips, it's because of "screw the rules I have plot", and not over character-level compatabilty tilting in Redcloak's Favour.

isnt it more likely rich went screw the rules when Tsukiko survived haleys sneak attack?

redcloak has no reason to kill tsukiko, if he does Xykon learns he has the Phylactery, there is no way Xykon would believe Tsukiko betrayed him considering she is literally in love with him

the absolute last thing Redcloak will ever consider doing is attracting attention to himself

[ti'esar]

Holy smokes, I can't believe it's actually happening right now! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12554210#post12554210)

Even though that whole thread is dedicated to the idea that it's actually happening right now, and even though the whole previous Team Evil Mini-Arc logically progresses here... this is it, folks!

Of course, disclaimer, Rich is a master at subverting expectations, so on and so forth, all true. And yes, it's possible that this is an anticlimax tension-building moment. But personally I doubt it. Tsuikko is, right now, about to blow the increasingly narrow balance of Team Evil to shreds.

For some reason [URL="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/guster/centerofattention.html"]this song is in my my head..

One of us...doot doot doo doo.. won't last the night...

Personally, I don't think it is happening right now. I think this strip is making it even more obvious that it will happen, and sooner then we might think, but there just seems to be too much of the story left for the split to happen right now. This is more about tensions rising.

[snikrept]

Redcloak's next round should have been disintegrate. Sure she's threatening to kill hobbos, but that's sort of moot when she's ALREADY killing hobbos right and left.

[silvadel]

You know -- Tsukiko did Redcloak a favor here...

Redcloak might have thought his sanctum was SAFE...

Now he knows differently... He might have even left the holy symbol here without this intrusion...

Now he knows better.

[rewinn]

Killing Tsukiko right now would be taking a stupid chance.

Sure, it might remove an annoyance, even a threat.
But just as likely, it might p1ss off Xykon enough to implement his threat to kill RC and give the cloak to Jirix. Dude is frickin' scary!

RC has learned something new and useful: Tsukiko wants something badly enough to go through his stuff. She also obviously did not find it. This gives RC a new asset which he's clever enough to use; if he were Sherlock Holmes, he'd put an ad in the newspaper so the criminal would bring himself to Holmes' study. RC could just drop a hint that he has a top-secret scroll hidden in some suitably inconvenient location, and watch with amusement as Black Squadron teleports there. What a pity he doesn't have Explosive Runes!

[silvadel]

What does Tsuikiko do at level 17?

I mean assuming she took 3 levels in some form of mage and 3 levels in some form of priest to get 2nd level spells in both -- then 10 levels of the mystic thaumaturge prestige class... That takes her to 16th... Now what?

What do you do with the last 4 levels before you can be an epic MT?

[blazingshadow]

question: is the dead goblin with the beard the previous leader of the hobgoblins and/or the general (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html) that helped redcloak take down azure city? if so he was an important goblin then not just a random mook

[the_tick_rules]

Red is gonna hide the phalactery? I thought everyone knew he found it.

[Juggling Goth]

The way panel 11's set up confirms she's after the phylactery.

Or it's a red herring, reminding us what Redcloak's focusing on right now.

Damn, that doesn't help at all. It's a really neat panel, though.

[Lemur Bear]

Is the title of this comic a reference to Neil Gaiman's "A Study in Emerald"? I know that his title was a reference to something I don't know, but...yeah. What is it a reference to?

[Grey Watcher]

The way panel 11's set up confirms she's after the phylactery.

Or it's a red herring, reminding us what Redcloak's focusing on right now.

Damn, that doesn't help at all. It's a really neat panel, though.

I believe, as has been speculated, that she's really looking for the other half of that ritual she was working on, but doesn't want to let on, so she's (somewhat indirectly) accusing him of hiding the phylactery to deflect his suspicions, not realizing that he really is hiding it!

As for the strip's title, I didn't read any more into it than

1) This scene takes place in Redcloak's study
2) Viridian is (more or less) green, like Redcloak's skin
3) Combine with Sherlock Holmes Reference for Punny Win

On the subject of why Redcloak isn't laying the smackdown on her right then and there, I think two things are at play: the practical and the personal.

Practically, as has been mentioned, he's down an unknown number of spell slots, Tsukiko is likely prepared to fight him specifically (should the need arise), she has a bunch of level-draining wights as allies, etc.

On a personal note, Redcloak hasn't gotten over his angsty backstory. He's not gonna stand up to Xykon directly, so as soon as Tsukiko threatens to tattle, he backs off from the point of violence. Because, as Xykon himself said int the Start of Darkness finale
One gets to be the butch and the other gets to be the bitch.

[Juggling Goth]

I believe, as has been speculated, that she's really looking for the other half of that ritual she was working on, but doesn't want to let on, so she's (somewhat indirectly) accusing him of hiding the phylactery to deflect his suspicions, not realizing that he really is hiding it!


I like :smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

Alright, so. According to the Class-Level Geekery, it is safe to assume Haley is a level 15 Rogue. She just fired three Point Blank Rapid Shot Sneak Attacks, each dealing 3(1d8) arrow damage, + 3(8d6) Sneak Attack Damage, + 3(1d6) Flaming Arrow damage (assuming the potion gave the spell) +1 on the arrows, + 3(3) on the bow for each arrow.

So, a grand total of 3d8 + 27d6 + 12 and Tsukiko was still on her feet.


But on the other hand, she was able to heal herself back up to full health with a Cure Critical Wounds (4d8 + 10?--not sure what Tsukiko's effective caster level is when casting clerical spells) and Thanh's Lay on Hands. Difficult to say how much that healed, but I'm guessing it's less than what Tsukiko healed herself because she treated it as if it was an afterthought.

So, your calculations imply average damage done of 120, whereas what Tsukiko healed afterward probably wasn't more than 70 and would have been average about 40...bit of a discrepancy!

[brionl]

If Redcloak wants to off Tsukiko, he should make a book titled "Not the other half of the ritual" and put a Symbol of Death on the first page. Set to go off when anybody besides him opens the book.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

What do you do with the last 4 levels before you can be an epic MT?

Cry mostly.

There aren't any other dual advancement PrCs to go into so after all the effort to be a dual-caster you have to either pick one side over the other (p get 17/13 casting), or alternate levels in your base classes (for 15/15 casting).

I suppose given the unoptimised nature of the OotS world the True Necromancer might be an appealling prospect maybe.

[eilandesq]

But on the other hand, she was able to heal herself back up to full health with a Cure Critical Wounds (4d8 + 10?--not sure what Tsukiko's effective caster level is when casting clerical spells) and Thanh's Lay on Hands. Difficult to say how much that healed, but I'm guessing it's less than what Tsukiko healed herself because she treated it as if it was an afterthought.

So, your calculations imply average damage done of 120, whereas what Tsukiko healed afterward probably wasn't more than 70 and would have been average about 40...bit of a discrepancy!

Tsukiko might be wearing clothing with Fortification on it--even Moderate Fortification (+3 equivalent; negates 75% of criticals and sneak attacks) would on average negate the sneak attack damage from two of the three attacks and have a good chance of negating all three sneak attacks--making the damage from a Haley barrage very manageable as long as she doesn't take a lot of them. Given the resources available to Team Evil, and the knowledge that a high level rogue archer is part of the Resistance, it's not that farfetched that she has such an item.

[i6uuaq]

I believe, as has been speculated, that she's really looking for the other half of that ritual she was working on, but doesn't want to let on, so she's (somewhat indirectly) accusing him of hiding the phylactery to deflect his suspicions, not realizing that he really is hiding it!


My thoughts precisely, and more concisely-worded than I could have managed.



As for the strip's title, I didn't read any more into it than

1) This scene takes place in Redcloak's study
2) Viridian is (more or less) green, like Redcloak's skin
3) Combine with Sherlock Holmes Reference for Punny Win



Well, upon reading this thread so far, I think that the thread has opened up quite a discussion about RedCloak's motivations and how he will react to Tsukiko's intrusions and accusations (implied and non-implied inclusive). How he reacts to this will potentially reveal new character development about RC, which could justify the "A study in..." title.

Also, the 'painting' end of the reference could be referring to RC's max bluffing when being accused of precisely what he had done, while still in shock of having his sanctum invaded.

Of course, I totally missed the "study" pun. :smallredface:

[pasko77]

I'm surprised he didn't point out that he could kill her and tell Xykon she was betraying him.

Or do it. Any time your henchman says, "I can do what I want, and you can't do anything" is the time to kill them without saying another word. DOn't even gloat. Hang them on their own intestines.

This. So much.
The correct answer to Tsukiko's threats is "Slay living" (quickened if possible).

[ti'esar]

question: is the dead goblin with the beard the previous leader of the hobgoblins and/or the general (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html) that helped redcloak take down azure city? if so he was an important goblin then not just a random mook

The general was killed by the castle's explosion during the siege. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html) This was just a random goblin (though he does provide further evidence that goatees may be the death sentence for goblins that mustaches seem to be for humans).


Killing Tsukiko right now would be taking a stupid chance.

Sure, it might remove an annoyance, even a threat.
But just as likely, it might p1ss off Xykon enough to implement his threat to kill RC and give the cloak to Jirix. Dude is frickin' scary!

This, I agree with. All the debates over whether Redcloak can take Tsukiko now are besides the point - the real issue is whether he's going to force an open confrontation with Xykon. He's clearly grown enough of a spine to make or begin planning to make some kind of move, but I seriously doubt he's going to go out of his way to provoke Xykon.

[snikrept]

So I guess "a study in viridian" is the title of that portrait of the Dark One over Redcloak's desk?

[M.A.D]

Is the title of this comic a reference to Neil Gaiman's "A Study in Emerald"? I know that his title was a reference to something I don't know, but...yeah. What is it a reference to?

Could be Conan Doyle's A Study in Scarlet

[multilis]

I think she is looking for what X requested, the full ritual.

The remote *has* been misplaced by Redcloak to make it harder to watch his gambit.

[Flame of Anor]

I'm surprised he didn't point out that he could kill her and tell Xykon she was betraying him.

Or do it. Any time your henchman says, "I can do what I want, and you can't do anything" is the time to kill them without saying another word. DOn't even gloat. Hang them on their own intestines.

The problem is that she isn't Redcloak's henchman--they're both Xykon's, much as RC would like to think he's an equal partner.

[Roderick_BR]

Love the detail of RedCloak hiding the pendant as he walks in.

[fergo]

I assumed that she was looking for the holy symbol (yep, I can't remember how to spell psychidoodat off the top of my head :smalltongue:), but I agree with lots of people here, the other half of the ritual would make a lot of sense...

If anything, I think the latter option would be more dangerous for Redcloak. He doesn't seem to be aware of the steps Tsukiko is taking to (if forum theories are correct) replace him. While he's distracted trying to control the holy symbol (bah :smallfurious:), he may not realise that he's losing the other area of control he has over Xykon.

[Ancalagon]

I wonder. Xykon pushed and pushed and pushed but never pushed Redcloak far enough for his obedience to Xykon to break. Tsukiko pushing too might be too much.

This is a good idea. So far I have wondered why Redcloak would suddenly starts to revolt. Xykon has done worse things to and with him than to forbid regenerating the eye (and even Redcloak has to admit the screwup was his fault).

Redcloak has taken so much push from Xykon that it seems strange something would change now. But Tsukiko pushing as well and Xykon making her push (he gives her the right words to say to Redcloak) him as well could be the amount of water that makes the barrel flow over (it is more than a drop).

Tsukiko might have seen there is no respect from Xykon to Redcloak (and if she is smart she might also have noticed it is vice versa) and draw the wrong conclusion she'd be protected.

[The Succubus]

A question - if this is about the Divine half of the ritual and it's true purpose, why hasn't she gone to Xykon with her suspicions? Because I'm pretty sure Xykon could find the truth of the matter pretty damn quick if he ven suspected Redcloak was double crossing him....

This suggests to me that Tsukiko wants something from Redcloak - but what? :smallconfused:

[RMS Oceanic]

A question - if this is about the Divine half of the ritual and it's true purpose, why hasn't she gone to Xykon with her suspicions? Because I'm pretty sure Xykon could find the truth of the matter pretty damn quick if he ven suspected Redcloak was double crossing him....

This suggests to me that Tsukiko wants something from Redcloak - but what? :smallconfused:

I think the assumption is that Xykon hasn't returned from his errands yet, so she hasn't had a chance to voice them.

[Ancalagon]

I think the assumption is Tsukiko wants to give the full ritual as present to Xykon.

You do not go to the person that you want to be your gf and bf and say "Hey, there's that thing you really want and I currently prepare to give it as surprise to you". No, you say nothing, prepare the surprise and hope it fires as you hope.
Tsukiko is attempting that. Xykon told her to figure out the ritual and she plans to deliever it to him in full, with no more open questions (and have a reason for Xykon to ditch Redcloak as well, hurry for synergy!)

[2xMachina]

Red Cloak should use the spell, Mind Rape on Tsukiko to subvert her to his side.

He can cast lvl 9 spells now. Just change her loyalty to him

[RMS Oceanic]

That would be an interesting twist, and we've seen him consult the Book of Vile Darkness before. However he only gets one shot with that spell, and if she makes her will save or something interferes, it could blow up in his face.

[factotum]

I assumed that she was looking for the holy symbol (yep, I can't remember how to spell psychidoodat off the top of my head :smalltongue:)

That would imply she knew Redcloak had it, but that makes no sense--even if she knows the thing's been found, it's far too soon to be searching his quarters for it. Searching somebody's quarters for something is what you'd do when they've had enough time to hide the thing you're looking for!

[RMS Oceanic]

That would imply she knew Redcloak had it, but that makes no sense--even if she knows the thing's been found, it's far too soon to be searching his quarters for it. Searching somebody's quarters for something is what you'd do when they've had enough time to hide the thing you're looking for!

If she's after the phylactery, then she would be operating on the erroneous assumption that Redcloak already found it and was now stalling for time, what a lot of us guessed he might do if he found it. She knows he cares for the Hobgoblins, so she could easily figure out an easy motive for time stalling.

[eras10]

Personally, I don't think it is happening right now. I think this strip is making it even more obvious that it will happen, and sooner then we might think, but there just seems to be too much of the story left for the split to happen right now. This is more about tensions rising.


This, I agree with. All the debates over whether Redcloak can take Tsukiko now are besides the point - the real issue is whether he's going to force an open confrontation with Xykon. He's clearly grown enough of a spine to make or begin planning to make some kind of move, but I seriously doubt he's going to go out of his way to provoke Xykon.


On a personal note, Redcloak hasn't gotten over his angsty backstory. He's not gonna stand up to Xykon directly, so as soon as Tsukiko threatens to tattle, he backs off from the point of violence. Because, as Xykon himself said int the Start of Darkness finale


Sure, it might remove an annoyance, even a threat.
But just as likely, it might p1ss off Xykon enough to implement his threat to kill RC and give the cloak to Jirix. Dude is frickin' scary!

I think folks here are seriously underestimating the gravity of the situation for Redcloak. Is killing Tsuikko a risk? Absolutely it is... and I'm not sure it will work out for him (many levels of possible problem, starting with pulling it off). But once she's dead, there's a lot of possible ways to manipulate and lie about what happened, and most of all there's no easy way to reverse it if Redcloak doesn't want it reversed (who says Redcloak even knows or selected True Resurrection?)

I'm looking at it from Redcloak's point of view. He's gotten away with, or at least survived, subverting Xykon's plans and lying to him.

On the other side of the threat equation, Redcloak is almost certainly about to learn - because Tsuikko is about to be dumb enough to tell him - that she is hunting for the second half of the ritual, and that she's already *seen* and been given the first half. That's not a red flag, that's a five-alarm fire in the munitions factory. It's the one thing that Redcloak can't allow Xykon or anyone on Team Evil to understand, under any circumstances.

If anyone here doesn't understand why,

because enacting the ritual gives a win for Redcloak's god, but not Xykon.

And as soon as she suspects the true story - even a hint of it - she's headed off to Xykon to spill the beans.
Redcloak isn't stupid, and Tsuikko isn't stupid enough when it comes to magical talent to be ignored or assumed failure. He has no choice but to try to have her silenced and he has no time to wait. Who knows what she's already learned from reverse-engineering?
He has until Xykon comes back to shut her up, and Xykon could come back at any time.
This is the proverbial it, folks. This is the real Monster in the Darkness, Redcloak's one Big Secret. The proverbial thermal exhaust port on the side of the Death Star. If Tsuikko figures this out, or even kinda-sorta gets an idea, and lives, it's over for Redcloak.

Unless Rich manages to write this so that Tsuikko's suspicions are completely smoothed over, or finds some other subterfuge to turn Xykon against Tsuikko, this is the end right here. I mean, I guess we could break from the action and go back to OOTS, and then come back later as (or right before) Xykon returns or in a day or two later.

But I don't see all three of these people teleporting out of this city together.

[eras10]

If she's after the phylactery, then she would be operating on the erroneous assumption that Redcloak already found it and was now stalling for time, what a lot of us guessed he might do if he found it

I think Tsuikko being after the phylactery would seem to be a waste of the previous team evil mini-arc in this book. Although, ironically,it would actually be a way to de-escalate the situation. Even while Redcloak is hiding the phylactery, it's an inherently less serious thing for Tsuikko to be searching for (because Xykon is going to get... something phylactery-like back fairly soon anyway) than the ritual's second half (which she can never be allowed to have, setting up a Defcon Zero situation for Redcloak)

[Niknokitueu]

Loved the comic, Rich. A study in green, indeed!

I do like how you are making Tsukiko into the evil counterpart of Miko.
Miko was all that was wrong with 'Good'
Tsukiko is all that is wrong with 'Evil'

I agree with the others that she is looking for the missing bit of the ritual whilst he thinks she is looking for the phylactry.

I also agree that the ritual should not need to be written down. If it is, however, it is...
...almost certainly behind the green-framed picture of the Dark One, whilst it should really be...
... hanging invisibly against the wall just outside his rooms. After all, his rooms are warded and shielded, so should cover something attached to the outside, and no-one ever searches the outside of a room :smallbiggrin:

[luc258]

It is still questionable how widespread the knowledge of the recovery of the phylactery is.

Timeline:
1) goblin finds it
2) goblin squad returns to surface
3) goblin squad is slaughtered by rebels
4) rebels return to base and get slaughtered by Redcloak
5) Redcloak uses word of recall to return to his study where he finds Tsukiko

The most time consuming is the goblins returning from the sewers and the rebels walking back to their base. Most of the other things that happened (e.g. polymorphed spies sending to their respective people) happened parallel to it. I really don't think that much time has passed, a couple of hours at max.

I find it unlikely that word of the recovery has been spread too much in such a short period of time. It makes no sense for Tsukiko, if by any chance she knows of the recovery, to expect that Redcloak has hidden the phylactery in his rooms before he returns from the attack on the rebels where he actually recovered the thing.
I really don't see how Tsukiko could be looking for the phylactery. It must be something else, most likely the other half od the ritual.

Personally i hope that Redcloak and Tsukiko go and fight soon. A surprising (for the reader) and complicated conspiracy against Tsukiko would be my favorite.
Redcloak blasting away Tsukiko in 1 round to further show how dangerous and powerful he has become would be a close second.

[Kish]

But once she's dead, there's a lot of possible ways to manipulate and lie about what happened, and most of all there's no easy way to reverse it if Redcloak doesn't want it reversed (who says Redcloak even knows or selected True Resurrection?)
Everyone who knows how clerics work?

Redcloak did not "select" any spells; he's not a sorcerer. He "knows" every cleric spell of the levels he can cast, which is to say, now, every cleric spell. "I don't have True Resurrection prepared" might buy him 24 hours, with an order to prepare it tomorrow. Much more likely, the response it would get would be, :xykon: "Gee, that's too bad for however many hobgoblins I can kill in 24 hours!"

[rbetieh]

Wait, why would Xykon care if Tsukiko dies? He literally has no skin in the game here. She's just as expendable as any other employee, the fact that she can cast spells only make her marginally more usefull to him than others, but that doesnt change the generally Xykon personality of sacrificing people to advance your own goals is a good thing. He asked Tsukiko to research a spell because he was going on a trip and also because he really didnt want to, not because he couldnt. Evidence is in Strip 700 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html). Even MiTD knows that Tsukiko only has half the ritual, the arcane half that Xykon could decipher if he cared to figure it out. She also notes that Xykon sees her only as a Minion. Most likely, the Tsukiko is dead conversation goes like this:

:xykon: So wheres the meatbag with the ponytails?
:redcloak: Dead, some resistance members got her, then a crazy halfling used her pigtails as a scarf
:xykon: Man, that is so funny! Did you get the scarf?

Seriously, no reason to assume a greater reaction on this point than that.

[Brumski]

I guess we don't know what Xykon told Tsu about the ritual he gave her, but the audience at least knows that, logically, there should be no written out divine half of the ritual to be found anywhere. RC knows the ritual because of the Crimson Mantle, which requires an arcane and divine caster, so he had to write out the arcane half for Xykon, the divine half should only be in RC's own head. Unless I missed some detail somewhere saying there was, of course.

I think this strip is just to make us feel a little apprehension for RC until we realize it's a red herring, and to also show there's still plenty of bad blood in Team Evil.

When I first saw the wight's speech balloon I was really worried for RC, cause I thought it was Xykon, but then I read the actual text. Yeah, Xykon wouldn't say that.

[eras10]

Redcloak did not "select" any spells; he's not a sorcerer. He "knows" every cleric spell of the levels he can cast, which is to say, now, every cleric spell. "I don't have True Resurrection prepared" might buy him 24 hours, with an order to prepare it tomorrow.

Good point. I note that True Resurrection requires:


This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method).

So that's one loophole to keep her dead. Another loophole is the heaping cartload of diamonds required. A third loophole is the possibility that Xykon won't want to wait a day after coming back and possibly being handed back his "phylactery". And once they hit the gate, anything could happen.

Fourth possible loophole - who even knows that Redcloak has learned 9th level spells? It's a "new" spell level.

Redcolak: Gee, it's too bad the Resistance burned Tsuikko's body in an unknown location. If only I had 9th level spells!

[Icedaemon]

Humorous last panel aside, I think Tsukiko might be in trouble here.

Unless of course she really is ransacking his quarters for a remote, which I wouldn't put past her :smallsigh:

Shouldn't that be 'Especially if she really is ransacking his quarters for a remote'?

[Fitzclowningham]

Tsukiko is going to get what's coming to her. The question is, will she survive it?

[Landis963]

I think maybe no one has gotten the full import of the Sherlock Holmes reference by now. Of course the surface reference is to A Study in Scarlet, but perhaps that's meant to put us in mind of another Holmes story, A Scandal in Bohemia. In Scandal, Holmes tricks Irene Adler out of her house (with a smoke bomb, if it matters) then runs in and attempts to steal some incriminating evidence from her...but she has hidden it somewhere else, plus she comes back and catches him in the act. Now, substitute Tsukiko for Holmes, and Redcloak for Irene Adler. Does this start looking creepily familiar?


Close, but no cigar. The smoke bomb actually tricks her into rushing for said evidence as a mother would her child, Holmes never actually steals it. He doesn't get a chance: Adler runs with her husband and the evidence and leaves a taunting note behind for Holmes.

[Flame of Anor]

Close, but no cigar. The smoke bomb actually tricks her into rushing for said evidence as a mother would her child, Holmes never actually steals it. He doesn't get a chance: Adler runs with her husband and the evidence and leaves a taunting note behind for Holmes.

No, no, reread the story. That's what Holmes planned to happen--she would rush for it and thus show him where it was hidden. But she outsmarted him; it was somewhere else all along.

[Kish]

Good point. I note that True Resurrection requires:


This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method) .

So that's one loophole to keep her dead.

I'm less than clear on what you're referring to. Are you suggesting Redcloak could misidentify Tsukiko without immediately getting called on deliberately messing up the spell by Xykon?

Another loophole is the heaping cartload of diamonds required.

I would be amazed if Xykon didn't have the diamonds by now.

A third loophole is the possibility that Xykon won't want to wait a day after coming back and possibly being handed back his "phylactery". And once they hit the gate, anything could happen.

Fourth possible loophole - who even knows that Redcloak has learned 9th level spells? It's a "new" spell level.

Redcolak: Gee, it's too bad the Resistance burned Tsuikko's body in an unknown location. If only I had 9th level spells!
He may, indeed, be keeping his new spell level secret from Xykon for that or similar reasons.

And, as pendell (et al, but pendell first, I think) suggested, Xykon might simply not care if Redcloak killed Tsukiko. I can't prove that isn't the case, but personally, I'm not going to bet that way; Xykon's not a genius but he's not stupid either, and I think he's realized the value of having a follower who practically worships him, in addition to the cleric slave who impotently hates him, the creature in the darkness who is loyal to everyone who claims to be his friend, and the legions of hobgoblins who are fanatically loyal to the cleric slave and don't care at all for Xykon himself.

[silvadel]

Good point. I note that True Resurrection requires:

.

So that's one loophole to keep her dead. Another loophole is the heaping cartload of diamonds required. A third loophole is the possibility that Xykon won't want to wait a day after coming back and possibly being handed back his "phylactery". And once they hit the gate, anything could happen.

Fourth possible loophole - who even knows that Redcloak has learned 9th level spells? It's a "new" spell level.

Redcolak: Gee, it's too bad the Resistance burned Tsuikko's body in an unknown location. If only I had 9th level spells!

5th loophole...

RC to Xykon: The dark one refused to allow me to true ressurrect Tsukiko -- a HUMAN -- or is there some other reason why he refused this request?

[Grey Watcher]

...

And, as pendell (et al, but pendell first, I think) suggested, Xykon might simply not care if Redcloak killed Tsukiko.

...

I don't doubt that Xykon doesn't give cantrip about Tsukiko's life, beyond the relatively minor inconvenience of not having a decently-leveled arcane caster that he can dump boring research projects onto. However, that doesn't change the fact that Redcloak is still (at least somewhat) cowed by Xykon over the events in Start of Darkness. Which is why he backs down whenever Tsukiko brings up Xykon, even though, realistically, between Xykon's apathy and Redcloak's increasing power, Redcloak doesn't have nearly as much to worry about as he imagines he does.

I guess we can't really prove what's going on in his head, barring a soliloquy, but that seems to me the best explanation as to why he doesn't just blast Tsukiko into a fine paste, and rely on Xykon's apathy to get away with it.

[jidasfire]

I think it's worth considering that Redcloak isn't taking out Tsukiko here because, even if Xykon doesn't care that she dies (and it's a safe bet to think he would, if only because she's useful to him right now), it may force him to wonder why Redcloak is killing her at that moment. Up until that point, Redcloak has just taken her insults, because that's the kind of guy he is. Redcloak's M.O. seems to be biding his time until the endgame, where he and his god can squash Xykon. Until then, however, he has to tolerate Xykon's abuse, which now includes the new lapdog Tsukiko. If he kills her, that says to Xykon that Redcloak is stepping up his game, or she found out something the goblin wants to stay hidden. Putting Xykon on the offensive when he considers himself close to winning is not something the overly-cautious Redcloak is going to do.

[2xMachina]

He doesn't have to admit to killing Tsukiko. He can dispose of it, and no one will know.

Tsukiko could've just fled, for all Xykon knows.


I'm not familiar with Implosion, but I'm fairly sure people who are will confirm that it's 9th level.

I'm pretty sure because Redcloak already had 8th level spells. Extended Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) is 8th level. So Redcloak has gotten a spell level above 8th. Either he's now epic, or it's level 9.

No, he means that maybe, no one knows he has lvl 9 spells now. No one saw him use it.

[ORione]

Fourth possible loophole - who even knows that Redcloak has learned 9th level spells? It's a "new" spell level.


I'm not familiar with Implosion, but I'm fairly sure people who are will confirm that it's 9th level.

I'm pretty sure because Redcloak already had 8th level spells. Extended Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) is 8th level. So Redcloak has gotten a spell level above 8th. Either he's now epic, or it's level 9.

[Khaethrag]

I'm not familiar with Implosion, but I'm fairly sure people who are will confirm that it's 9th level.

I'm pretty sure because Redcloak already had 8th level spells. Extended Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) is 8th level. So Redcloak has gotten a spell level above 8th. Either he's now epic, or it's level 9.

I think the point was that the only people in the world of the strip who is aware that RC is able to use Implosion -- and thus must have gained a spell level -- are RC himself and Niu.

[ZiggyGuy]

I'm not familiar with Implosion, but I'm fairly sure people who are will confirm that it's 9th level.

I'm pretty sure because Redcloak already had 8th level spells. Extended Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) is 8th level. So Redcloak has gotten a spell level above 8th. Either he's now epic, or it's level 9.

He meant that no one IN COMIC knows Redcloack has it.
We know, it was proven.
They don't, he JUST got them, he said it was new.

[ORione]

No, he means that maybe, no one knows he has lvl 9 spells now. No one saw him use it.


I think the point was that the only people in the world of the strip who is aware that RC is able to use Implosion -- and thus must have gained a spell level -- are RC himself and Niu.

Oh, I see. I misunderstood. Thanks.

[Red XIV]

I'm less than clear on what you're referring to. Are you suggesting Redcloak could misidentify Tsukiko without immediately getting called on deliberately messing up the spell by Xykon?
I think the idea would be that neither Xykon nor Redcloak knows (or cares) about Tsukiko's time and place of birth, and Redcloak would be able to claim he doesn't know exactly when and where she died.


I would be amazed if Xykon didn't have the diamonds by now.
There's a difference between having them (or the ability to easily get them), and considering them worth spending on the resurrection of a minion. Minions are innately replaceable, after all.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

There's a difference between having them (or the ability to easily get them), and considering them worth spending on the resurrection of a minion. Minions are innately replaceable, after all.

Tsukiko however is a minion with a specific function of immediate or very-near-future importance to Xykon personally, rather than just a nameless clone. If she dies before helping him figure out the ritual Xykon is going to want that reversed.

[Peelee]

I think the idea would be that neither Xykon nor Redcloak knows (or cares) about Tsukiko's time and place of birth, and Redcloak would be able to claim he doesn't know exactly when and where she died.


Those are just examples for easy ways to specifically identify someone. "That pigtailed human Mystic Theurge chick who I just saw the other day" is also pretty darned specific. Unless there are tons of other pigtailed human Mystic Theurge chicks running around Gobbotopia. But yeah, that's a "loophole" that wouldn't fly at all. If she was killed and needed rezzing, I doubt Redcloak would pull a True Rez out for her anyway, since a standard Rez would accomplish the same thing and knock her down a level

[Morgan Wick]

I think the intention is that she's looking for the other half of the ritual, and the penultimate panel reverse angle shot where you can see the phylactery on Redcloak's belt is intended to make people who haven't read SoD think it's the phylactery, even though that would make zero sense.

[Bad Hair Day]

We don't yet know what the long term plans are between RC and Tsukiko, but we know that there are long term plans based on RC's comment that he "ordered his humiliation to go" when Jirix (?) asked him if Tsukiko was staying in Gobbotopia or going on the road when RC (and Xykon?) leaves.

Sorry, I couldn't find a link to that particular comic. My memory isn't good enough to remember where that was in the story line...

[Kish]

I think the idea would be that neither Xykon nor Redcloak knows (or cares) about Tsukiko's time and place of birth, and Redcloak would be able to claim he doesn't know exactly when and where she died.
That would be an excellent point if the text of True Resurrection went, "You must name either the time and place of birth, or the time and place of death of the person to be resurrected," instead of, "You must unambiguously identify the person to be resurrected, and these are some common ways of doing it."
:redcloak: "True Resurrection: Tsukiko, the mystic theurge with heterochromatic eyes who has been located in this city since before we conquered it."
Or, alternatively, :redcloak: "Gee, Lord Xykon, I don't know how I could identify her--no, stop alternating killing those hobgoblins with torturing me personally, please!"

Why are so many people suggesting Redcloak should be able to fool Xykon with a lie that wouldn't fool the least intelligent of the three cats who live with me?


We don't yet know what the long term plans are between RC and Tsukiko, but we know that there are long term plans based on RC's comment that he "ordered his humiliation to go" when Jirix (?) asked him if Tsukiko was staying in Gobbotopia or going on the road when RC (and Xykon?) leaves.

Sorry, I couldn't find a link to that particular comic. My memory isn't good enough to remember where that was in the story line...
Tsukiko will be leaving with Redcloak and Xykon, not staying in Gobbotopia with the hobgoblins.

There is no need for more specific long-term plans than that, based on Redcloak's answer to Jirix's question. "Tsukiko is staying when Xykon and I leave" is what would stand out as odd.

[Michaeler]

In case redcloak's motives are still uncertain, he chose not to kill Tsukiko right now, at least in part, because his chances of doing it quickly and cleanly and making Xykon think it was either an accident or someone else is lower than if he does it in a few days time.

A few days of humiliation is a small price to pay. Sleep well, Tsukiko, one day you won't wake up.

[ORione]

There's a difference between having them (or the ability to easily get them), and considering them worth spending on the resurrection of a minion. Minions are innately replaceable, after all.

What Kobold-Bard said.

Minions in general may be replacable, but Xykon would have trouble finding someone who is: A) an mid-level arcane caster B) a mid-level divine caster and, most importantly C) fanatically loyal to him.

Compared to that, diamonds are cheap.

[Diadem]

Can anyone answer a few questions I have?

- It's a been a while since i read the earlier OOTS comics. in which ones is Tsukiko's relation to the ritual explored?
- Isn't knowledge of the ritual part of Redcloak's cloak? So why would it even be written down at all?

- There was talk in this thread about Xykon taking out Redcloak and all of Gobbotopia if he discovered that Redcloak was hiding the phylactery. But could Xykon really take out all of Gobbotopia? That's a few hundred thousand goblins. Low level ones, but even an epic lich would eventually run out of spells? I mean, there's a reason he's dragging along all those minions in the first place, right?

[Kobold-Bard]

...

- Isn't knowledge of the ritual part of Redcloak's cloak? So why would it even be written down at all?

I believe it's the arcane half of the ritual, that would need to be written down so Xykon could use it. But RC apparently either didn't explain how to use the information (so Xykon wants Tsukiko to work it out), or it needs the Divine half as well to make sense, so Tsukiko's task is reverse engineering the Divine half from the arcane half (her being a dual caster and therefore better placed to attempt it than Xykon).

Or I could be completely wrong.


- There was talk in this thread about Xykon taking out Redcloak and all of Gobbotopia if he discovered that Redcloak was hiding the phylactery. But could Xykon really take out all of Gobbotopia? That's a few hundred thousand goblins. Low level ones, but even an epic lich would eventually run out of spells? I mean, there's a reason he's dragging along all those minions in the first place, right?

Xykon most likely has some epic level megadeath spell ready for just such an occasion (eg. there's an Epic Spell called Rain of Fire, which does exactly what it sounds like and would lay waste to Gobbotopia and everyone in it). He does seem like the type.

[Grey Watcher]

Can anyone answer a few questions I have?

- It's a been a while since i read the earlier OOTS comics. in which ones is Tsukiko's relation to the ritual explored?
- Isn't knowledge of the ritual part of Redcloak's cloak? So why would it even be written down at all?

- There was talk in this thread about Xykon taking out Redcloak and all of Gobbotopia if he discovered that Redcloak was hiding the phylactery. But could Xykon really take out all of Gobbotopia? That's a few hundred thousand goblins. Low level ones, but even an epic lich would eventually run out of spells? I mean, there's a reason he's dragging along all those minions in the first place, right?

Tsukiko studying the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)

[Math_Mage]

I think the intention is that she's looking for the other half of the ritual, and the penultimate panel reverse angle shot where you can see the phylactery on Redcloak's belt is intended to make people who haven't read SoD think it's the phylactery, even though that would make zero sense.

No, the reverse angle shot is to let the viewers know what Redcloak THINKS she's talking about. It's what's on his mind, it's something he's keeping secret, and it's something Tsukiko has been looking for. He doesn't know that she's been reading the arcane half of the ritual, but he will by the end of the next comic.

[LordofNaught]

I should have known Black Squad would also be searching for the phylactery. As for Redcloak taking down Tsukiko at this point is not tactically wise. She's too useful in combat from what we've seen so far to be eliminated, since she can bypass Haley's usual means of defense. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Redcloak did her in. Actually, I expect it to happen at some point.

[Math_Mage]

I should have known Black Squad would also be searching for the phylactery. As for Redcloak taking down Tsukiko at this point is not tactically wise. She's too useful in combat from what we've seen so far to be eliminated, since she can bypass Haley's usual means of defense. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Redcloak did her in. Actually, I expect it to happen at some point.

Redcloak doesn't need Tsukiko to deal with Haley. On the other hand, it's not a great time to fight her since his highest-level spell slots are exhausted.

[Diadem]

Tsukiko studying the ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)
Thanks.

Doesn't seem like she has much to go on. And Xykon doesn't seem to have told her what the ritual is for. So she has no idea the other half doesn't exist.

Neat.

[skaddix]

Redcloak doesn't need Tsukiko to deal with Haley. On the other hand, it's not a great time to fight her since his highest-level spell slots are exhausted.

Well actually it depends on when they get to the gate. If they start casting the ritual before the order gets there then they would need her of course if they defeat all the sides at what is setup to be the largest gate battle yet then they probably need her less but she is still useful if u have to fight the OOTS, The All New All Different Linear Guild, whoever Draketooth has there.

So either way she is pretty useful of course I am not sure who Team Evil expects to run into obviously one Draketooth and OOTS but they are not expecting the Linear Guild or at least not Linear Guild with a boost in Power.

[skaddix]

Thanks.

Doesn't seem like she has much to go on. And Xykon doesn't seem to have told her what the ritual is for. So she has no idea the other half doesn't exist.

Neat.

Its pretty clear she knows she is missing half the ritual, the divine half.

[Morgan Wick]

No, the reverse angle shot is to let the viewers know what Redcloak THINKS she's talking about. It's what's on his mind, it's something he's keeping secret, and it's something Tsukiko has been looking for. He doesn't know that she's been reading the arcane half of the ritual, but he will by the end of the next comic.

Not sure why such a shot would be necessary for that. Manipulating the reader's impressions is probably the main purpose of the comic right now, and the reader doesn't need to know what Redcloak is thinking, especially since I have a sense he's going to let that slip anyway in the next comic.

829

:tsukiko:: No, I know you're hiding something from Xykon.
:redcloak:: Look, I don't know anything about the phylactery being found, and I don't know why you would think -
:tsukiko:: I don't give a wight's ass about the phylactery, greenskin! You gave Xykon one-half of a ritual, an arcane half. I've determined that the other half of the ritual is divine. Now, where is it?
:redcloak:: Wait, is this about the ritual to operate the Gates?
:tsukiko:: I don't know, did you give Xykon any other arcane half-rituals?
:redcloak:: I see where this is going. I give you the divine half of the ritual, and Xykon doesn't have any use for me anymore. Then he can abuse me however he wants, if he doesn't just kill me on the spot.
:tsukiko:: Or I run off and "operate the Gates", whatever that is, by myself. Mystic theurge, remember?
:redcloak:: Considering you're the biggest Xykon fangirl I've ever met, I doubt you're going to do that.
:tsukiko:: At any rate, Xykon asked me to find out what the ritual does and nothing else, so that's what I'm doing, and he wouldn't have asked me to do that if he didn't want to take your word for it. As much as I've been trying to convince Xykon to let me replace you as his second-in-command, I don't know if he has any plans to actually do that yet.
:redcloak:: You won't find it in this room. I know it by heart, learned directly from the Dark One. I have never had any need to write it down.
:tsukiko:: Cough it up, Reddy. Cough it up or I kill a hobgoblin for every round you don't. And it better be the right one, too; don't think I won't be able to tell if it isn't.

What happens after that I don't know, but it could be this:

:redcloak:: Hey look, I found the phylactery! And you know what Xykon said about leaving two rounds after it turned up. We'd better go see Xykon right away!

[eras10]

So either way she is pretty useful of course I am not sure who Team Evil expects to run into obviously one Draketooth and OOTS

You could make a case that maybe Team Evil 'ought' to expect OOTS to show up at Girard's gate, but you shouldn't assume it. Team Evil, or at least Xykon, may, belatedly, be somewhat aware that OOTS is dedicated to stopping them, but Xykon did also kill their leader and conquer the city they were in with 30,000 hobgoblins. Who knows what happened after that, and who knows if OOTS managed to get across the ocean and find the gate in time?

[skaddix]

You could make a case that maybe Team Evil 'ought' to expect OOTS to show up at Girard's gate, but you shouldn't assume it. Team Evil, or at least Xykon, may, belatedly, be somewhat aware that OOTS is dedicated to stopping them, but Xykon did also kill their leader and conquer the city they were in with 30,000 hobgoblins. Who knows what happened after that, and who knows if OOTS managed to get across the ocean and find the gate in time?

True that is a good point.