Help request: speccing out a 10th level Necromancer (Pathfinder rules)

[Phrednethor]

I have been playing "Curse of the Crimson Throne" with a group of friends, and my character is a gnome Necromancer. Now, prior to this adventure path, a long time had passed since my last RPG session. Coupled with a lack of due diligence, this resulted in a character that is probably nowhere near as effective as he could be, along with mismatching worthy of an Mc Escher print.

As a result, I would like to ask you how would you construct a 10th level necro that started at 17 Int and got a +4 Headband of Vast Intelligence at level 8. I am mostly interested in which spells you would populate the spellbook with, what feats you'd choose, what would a general-purpose spell loadout be, and what magic items would you have bought. However, anything you could think of would be most welcome.

Since I mean this to be a learning experience for me, please include as many explanations and justifications for your choices as you can, as well as any tips on how to proceed with future levelups taking into account this character will become a Lich and then a Demilich.


P.S: on a much briefer note, I would like to ask you if you have a couple of spells for special occasions (such as not beng subject to SR, only having verbal components, etc).

[HunterOfJello]

So yous wants to be a wizards, eh? Wells then. Yous gots some readings to do.

First of all, you've gotten the order of things wrong. If you really want to learn how to make a good wizard, you have to do it yourself. Search for information from guides and start scouring the books you have to get the absolute best options and information that you can. If you have other people do this for you, then you will both miss out on half the fun of playing a wizard and end with a character that you only partially know how to play in the first place. This is most especially relevant in regards to spells. You have to read through the spell lists and pick out all of the spells yourself if you ever want to play a competent wizard who understands what he's doing. You can't play a competent and spell saavy wizard if you aren't fully aware of how all of his spells work. The character can never be smarter or wiser than the player.

Step 1 is to read over all of the wizard info in the Pathfinder book.
Step 2 is to get some character sheets and paper ready.
Step 3 is to go and read the guides that I will list below. They are related to both 3.5 and Pathfinder. This is an important step. Take notes.
Step 4 is to build a wizard or a few different wizards on your own and see what happens. You will find things that you like and dislike.
Step 5 is to get a finished draft Wizard which you can then bring back to the boards and ask everyone, "Hey guys, what do you think of this build?"

~~~~~

As far as handbooks go, check these out:

Start with Dictum Mortim's Wizard Handbook Part 1 (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/wizards-handbook-part-one-attributes.html) & Part 2 (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/this-is-second-part-to-wizard-handbook.html).

This should be followed by the ridiculously exceptional Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards: Being a God (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873034/Treantmonks_guide_to_Wizards:_Being_a_God). This guide will not only explain the options available to a wizard, but will fully explain to you what a Wizard really is in d&d/pathfinder. You must first understand the theories involved before you can become a true wizard.




Finally the Pathfinder version of Treantmonk's Handbook for Wizards (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test). This Handbook obviously isn't up to date with the current releases of the pathfinder books so there are likely better options for wizards available now than there were when it was written. Regardless, since you're in a Pathfinder setting, it will be able to help you to start writing.

[Phrednethor]

Thanks for the documentation, I will start reading it right now. I would like to point out, however, that I made the character myself and played with it for quite a while now. Its current state is as follows:

Spellbook:

Resistance
Acid Splash
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Read Magic
Daze
Dancing Lights
Flare
Light
Ray of Frost
Spark
Ghost sound
Bleed
Disrupt undead
Touch of fatigue
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Burning Hands
Magic Missile
Protection from G/E/C/L
Ray of Enfeeblement
Shield
Sleep
Jump
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Scare
Feather Fall
Memory Lapse
Blindness / Deafness
Protection from Arrows
Stone Call
Darkness
Glitterdust
Hideous Laughter
False Life
Touch of Idiocy
Desecrate
Scorching Ray
Fireball
Fly
Magic Circle against G/E/C/L
Dispel Magic
Protection From Energy
Deep Slumber
Heroism
Blacklight
Diamond Spray
Lightning Bolt
Invisibility Sphere
Displacement
Ray of Exhaustion
Deathwine
Eldritch Fever
Halt Undead
Toxic Gift
Marionette Possesion
Vampiric Touch
Infernal Healing, Greater
Curse of Magic Negation
Dimensional Anchor
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Remove Curse
Stoneskin
Black Tentacles
Dimension Door
Fleshworm Infestation
Fire Shield
Greater Invisibility
Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Boneshatter
Enervation
False Life, Greater
Contagion
Shout

General purpose spell loadout as of lvl9:

0: Disrupt Undead|Detect Magic|Light|Read Magic
1: Ray of Enfeeblement|Shield|Chill Touch x 2|Feather Fall
2: Blindness/Deafness x 2|Protection From Arrows|Desecrate|Touch of Idiocy|Scorching Ray x 2
3: Halt Undead|Diamond Spray|Dispel Magic|Lightning Bolt
4: Enervation|Boneshatter x 2|Greater Invisibility

Posessions:

Lesser rod of maximize.
Amulet of natural armor +3.
Headband of vast intelligence +4.
Cloak of Resistance +5.
Robe of bones.
Level 5 Magic Missile wand.

Feats:

Combat Casting.
Spell Focus (necromancy).
Craft Wondrous Item.
Craft Wand.
Greater Spell Focus (necromancy).
Forge Ring.


So, while the documentation you provided will be extremely useful formy next mage build, it is quite a bit overkill for a rehauling of my current char. That is currently the most pressing matter.

[Diarmuid]

If the character is already built, what kind of advice are you actually looking for? Your OP asked what items you "would have bought" and what feats you would choose.

As for going forward, with your feats already locked in crafting that will severely limit optimization choices as you will not meet many prereqs, especially Metamagic ones.

[Phrednethor]

In a nutshell, advice on what to change about the current state (my DM will probably let me change a few things) and how to proceed to the Lich --> Demilich route. HunterOfJello's advice was awesome, but I will only get to use it on future builds.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For future builds, pick up a copy of Heroes of Horror and play a Dread Necromancer. It's capstone ability is turning into a lich, and it's got pretty much everything you'd want in-house.

For now... what schools have you banned? This makes a large impact on what spells to suggest, but in brief:

Enervation. It rocks the big blocks. Negative levels are nasty, and it can get metamagic-pimped all to heck and back. Pick up a metamagic rod of Split Ray or Empower. Both of these do very well with Enervation. Arcane Thesis is also hella-effective when metamagic-stacking.

Fear effects are also really nice, because they can stack to produce some crippling effects. However, there's a LOT of things immune to it, so find a way to bypass immunity.

As far as what PrC to go into? Well, there's a couple of options, really.

If you are going to be metamagic-stacking, you'll want to look up Incantatrix, for the bar-none number-one best PrC for breaking the metamagic stacking game.

Dread Witch is a PrC that is mandatory if you plan on fear-stacking, because it bypasses immunity to fear.

Pale Master starts off really weak, but has a capstone ability of theoretically-unlimited-army-of-zombies. YMMV, of course.

[PinkysBrain]

Don't you have command undead as a bonus feat from your necromancy specialization too? It's a lot more powerful in Pathfinder than in 3.5, making an intelligent undead your flunky is straightforward.

[Phrednethor]

ShneekeyTheLost: got it, thanks. My banned schools are divination and transmutation. Remember that doesn't mean I cannot learn spells from them, just that they occupy two slots instead of one (if I recall correctly).

PinkysBrain: I do, and Grave Touch as well. Forgot to write that down, my apologies.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

ShneekeyTheLost: got it, thanks. My banned schools are divination and transmutation. Remember that doesn't mean I cannot learn spells from them, just that they occupy two slots instead of one (if I recall correctly).

PinkysBrain: I do, and Grave Touch as well. Forgot to write that down, my apologies.

You might also try some of the conjuration blasting effects, like Orb of Acid or something. Ignoring SR is fun. And some days, ya just want to turn something into a smoking puddle of goo...

[PinkysBrain]

Okay, in that case get a scroll of create undead and create a 10 HD undead of your chosing (preferably also have your party members on hand to subdue him until your command undead attempts go through). You have to renew your control each day, but that's trivial ... you just command him to voluntarily give up his save and command him anew.

What's a necromancer without a powerful undead servant? Get a hat of disguise and learn gentle repose to allow you to take him out in public without causing a scene.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Kelgore's Grave Mist is another good no-save-no-sr thematic spell that deals damage in an area effect.

You can also re-fluff some of the staples... you've banned Trans, so no slows for j00, but Stinking Cloud could be the effluvia of a thousand rotting corpses, Grease could be conjuring entrails and other less identifiable slippery bits, glitterdust could be grave dust...

[grarrrg]

Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave) is a good Necro-PrC, and its firmly in Pathfinder.

5 levels with 4/5 casting, but all 5 levels count double for HD of undead controlled.

[PinkysBrain]

Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave) is a good Necro-PrC, and its firmly in Pathfinder.
By the RAW it doesn't progress your command undead ability, animate dead is nice for cannon fodder ... but command undead works on Juju Zombies and Skeletal Champions, so essentially it's like having the Leadership feat.

[Phrednethor]

ShneekeyTheLost: I always liked to learn about Orb spells, but neither d20pfsrd nor d20srd seem to have them. Where could I find a comprehensive list?

PinkysBrain: I recently animated a Red Reaver my party and I killed. :smallbiggrin:
I see Create Undead is amore powerful spell, so I'm going to look into learnign it when I reach level 11.

grarrrg: got it, gonna look into it.


Thanks for all the help guys, you have been very helpful and I appreciate your patience. There is just one more thing I need to ask you about: I currently have three level 5 spells to choose from. What would you recommend me? Also, is there any grossly obvious spellmissing from my lvl0-4 spellbook you think I should add?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

ShneekeyTheLost: I always liked to learn about Orb spells, but neither d20pfsrd nor d20srd seem to have them. Where could I find a comprehensive list?Spell Compendium is where they are found.