League of Legends XXIX - We Must Ask: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation?

[ex cathedra]

League of Legends XXIX:
We Must Ask: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation?


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NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
0tt3r | 0tt3r
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Drager0 | Drager0
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efdf | efdf
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Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
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glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
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kmchii | kmchii
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Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
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PersonMan | Nsev
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PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
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Rama | Nargus
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RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
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SweetRein | Riot Reinboom
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Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
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ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
zolga | TheZolga[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid
zolga | MasterZolga[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
General
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champions
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
Jax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11252389&postcount=652) by Mtg_player_zach
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE*
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.
LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.

League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)
*Flair and class provided by your local Dogmantra!

[EternalMelon]

Awww, this was gunna be my first new thread ever...

[Dogmantra]

You're missing a linebreak on the turn back time section.

[sucatraps]

I want a checkmark, so I'll post and say that lololololol EternalMelon, aether sehr gut.

[tribble]

You need a partner to cap another point to spawn minions. Otherwise none will spawn for you to eat.

Someone asked what madness I intended, and suca figured it out. I was gonna get max stacks of feast, grab the storm shield, and hit surge.

[Morph Bark]

Guess I was a little late in saying the last champ needed a reference, eh?

Either way, since I went over it, repostin':


I am ...... worried.

In my last game, there was a level 20 on the enemy team. I'm somewhat insultet by that - I feel like writing Riot and telling them 'Hey! I'm not that bad!'

Maybe there was a level 15 on our team! Yea - that will be it. I'm sure.

=)

I've once seen a level 1 on the opposing team. I duo'd and came with a trio of level 30, level 10, level 15 or something like that.


So, new thread title people.

I vote for anything that somehow references Sejuani. C'mon, the best thread titles have referenced the latest champ!


I've tried out her jungle a little with various set-ups and it's alright. As long as I can get a pull on wolves and/or Blue it should go fast enough. Otherwise I need to recall just before the golems, and I wouldn't want that.

Build is Regrowth Pendant -> Philo -> Boots -> HoG -> other stuff. Masteries and runes I've just done what was suggested in the champion spotlight. I also think that Rylai's might be better on her than Frozen Mallet. Sejuani likes to have blue buff, but late game (and maybe mid as well depending on build, haven't really tried to go much without blue yet) she can just leave it and go storming around. She needs to take care though, as while she is tanky she certainly ain't a real tank. Luckily her Q makes for great escapes.

I also love how much gold you get from this set-up. Your support could prettymuch feel free to only bring a few wards, rather than constantly need to ward almost everything.

[Silverraptor]

So, Djinn showed me first hand his infinite sustain Nasus. All my plans are on hold until I get the Quints. to successfully have this build!:smallbiggrin:

[Qwertystop]

So, Djinn showed me first hand his infinite sustain Nasus. All my plans are on hold until I get the Quints. to successfully have this build!:smallbiggrin:

What is this build for infinite sustain?

I prefer Kennen for infini-sustain, personally. Get a thing-that-builds-from-revolver-but-isn't-gunblade, then Q minions. If no minions are nearby or you don't want to push, Q through the wall to the Wraith, Wolf, or Golem camp, depending on the pushed-ness of the lane and which lane you're in at the time.

[Morph Bark]

Say, for those who have played Sejuani (or jungle, or are item nuts in general): thoughts on her getting Wit's End?

[Silverraptor]

What is this build for infinite sustain?

I prefer Kennen for infini-sustain, personally. Get a thing-that-builds-from-revolver-but-isn't-gunblade, then Q minions. If no minions are nearby or you don't want to push, Q through the wall to the Wraith, Wolf, or Golem camp, depending on the pushed-ness of the lane and which lane you're in at the time.

It's a strange build that Djinn would be better answering.

In other news, could I get a recap of how to build Kat. Except this time, with masteries and runes as well as skill order and items?

[Mirrinus]

Awesome, my title got picked. =D

I'm tempted to try out Galio next...I hear people play him more as a mage than a tank. Is this true?

[Douglas]

Someone asked what madness I intended, and suca figured it out. I was gonna get max stacks of feast, grab the storm shield, and hit surge.
No need to do it yourself, there are youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivVhaDTWN8o) videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejy--bQApNQ) of it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Qa6lyLvOc).

[Istari]

It's a strange build that Djinn would be better answering.

In other news, could I get a recap of how to build Kat. Except this time, with masteries and runes as well as skill order and items?

My personal build

Masteries 21/9/0 or 9/21/0 - Offensive is probably currently the way to go, since if you're getting hit, your doing it wrong, but defensive masteries can help in laning.

Runes - Magic Pen, Your Choice (Probably Flat Armor), Magic Resist or CDR (I personally like CDR/level since it gives around 10% at 18)

Items
Doran's Shield Start or Amp. Tome if you think you can get away with it (not recommended)
Boots/Hextech Revolver (Build this into WoTA when you get the chance)
Sorc. Shoes
Death Cap
Rylai's Crystal Scepter
Abyssal Scepter/Void Staff

Skill order
The big issue here is leveling Q vs E
In most lanes you want to prioritize Q, since its the much safer skill. Whenever it becomes common for you to shunpo, start leveling it over Q (Typically in lanes where you can close easily or when teamfights start)
Max W last, but pick up a level around 4.

[tribble]

So today I discovered that Agony increases ignite damage.:smallbiggrin: I actually won a game as swain for once and took the ignite spell. That's a "first" and a "first since morde was nerfed".

[Draken]

So today I discovered that Agony increases ignite damage.:smallbiggrin: I actually won a game as swain for once and took the ignite spell. That's a "first" and a "first since morde was nerfed".

Torment. Agony is an ability o Mundo. :smalltongue:

Torment also increases the damage of items such as Thornmail, Deathfire, Gunblade, Sunfire, etc.

[Da Beast]

It's a strange build that Djinn would be better answering.

In other news, could I get a recap of how to build Kat. Except this time, with masteries and runes as well as skill order and items?

One of the pros who's famous for playing Kat (Scarra I think?) posted on reddit once that Kat should always be played solo mid. Start boots and pots maxing bouncing blade first, followed by shunpo and the killer instincts. For items rush gunblade and pick up sorc shoes, then start roaming a bit and looking for ganks. Kat is an assassin and should be ganking in the mid game. From there build AP items like death cap and void staff and some survivability with warmogs if needed. He specifically warned against Rylai's Crystal Scepter, saying that it doesn't give enough AP for its cost and that between the slow on gunblade and Kat's innate chasing abilities with shunpo you shouldn't need the extra slow from Rylais. If you rush Gunblade then Rylais you wont be dealing enough damage in the mid game.

Keep in mind that Kat is really easy to shut down since she needs to channel in the middle of a team fight to get off a big portion of her damage and good Kat playing is more about positioning and knowing when to go in (after they've blown their hard CC) than anything else.

Edit: masterys should be 21 in offense taking all the AP abilities with the other 9 probably going into defense to help you take on other champions. Runes should be magic pen reds with armor yellows and MR blues. Also, when in doubt check solomid.net. They have guides for every character, many of which are written by the pros who are famous for playing those characters.

[TechnOkami]

So today I discovered that Agony increases ignite damage.:smallbiggrin: I actually won a game as swain for once and took the ignite spell. That's a "first" and a "first since morde was nerfed".

...I never knew this.

Now I know why all the Swains take Ignite.

This changes everything. :smallfurious:

[Mutant Bunny]

...I never knew this.

Now I know why all the Swains take Ignite.

This changes everything. :smallfurious:

It should work with Kayle's Q, too. Smite does.

[tribble]

Death is not the end for you! I have seen to it! For eternity, I deal and take the most damage!

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9516/numberone.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/numberone.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Hootman]

I just had a RIDICULOUS amount of fun playing as Rammus. I jungled with him, and then just dove in and out of lanes whenever possible, disrupting the enemy and making sure I was at the heart of every teamfight.

6/9/11, with an INCREDIBLE come-back victory. Just got sick of getting kicked around, so I had Karma and Vayne follow me down midlane, and we just blew through the enemy like they weren't even there. 3rd Tower? Whatever, I'm diving EVERYONE, pop my W, tank the whole enemy team, pop Tremor, Powerball around to keep Nasus locked up, Taunt Fiddle, shield-y-spikes again, ACE. YEAH. What, Ahri got out of the fountain? BACK YOU GO, I'M RAMMUS, YOU CAN'T CAST WHILE I'M BOTHERING YOU. Game over. VICTORY!


...Sorry, I just got really excited at the end of the match. I was having a ton of fun, and then that win....sigh. So good. :smallbiggrin:

[sucatraps]

So, semi-interesting fact. Remember how Malphite Bot had Fortify after it was removed, and everything? Well, the bots are either still using old runes or old masteries, because both Shen Bot and Cho Bot are dodging all over the place.

[Terazul]

I am going to be so happy when this skin is released. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NPamvoDlzI&feature=player_embedded)

[Kairaven]

So, just had a game with 3 friends and one pick up twitch, as we started twitch wanted to gank only but he kept stand still getting hit, and rages at me for not saving him. (I was sejuani), so after his 3rd death and some bad match up in the other lanes where my friends died, we decided that the game is going south and that we will start mock raging at each other in /all chat

the game lasted 64 min, and all through out we just traded insults such as

"at least I didn't die enough to let the enemy team all make alligator shoes" (my friend's renekton)
"bunny hopping your way to elo hell" (my friend's teemo)
"McRibs for everyone"
"shut it fuzzy slipper"
"omg you ks'd my minions"
"someone is tattooed with suck"
"how you tank?"
"why are you all glowy"
"the turrets! they do nothing!"
"omg these online strategy guides are all LIIIIIEEESSS!!!"
"where is the base!"
"halp how to recall?"

it was the most fun way to lose a game ever.

end result for us is 42 kills to 76 deaths. (the twitch contributed 27 of those deaths)

[Mirrinus]

New episode of LalalaDemacia! (www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB5TDfZKvvE)

Sona is OP. Or, at least a part of her, anyway.

I'm talking about her cooldowns, of course. What did you think I was referring to?

[Math_Mage]

40 minutes in. Your comp is Ashe, Irelia, Sejuani, Soraka, *insert a hard-scaling mage like Karthus here*. Assuming both sides play well, can you lose?

[Dogmantra]

Awesome, my title got picked. =D

I'm tempted to try out Galio next...I hear people play him more as a mage than a tank. Is this true?
This is true. Basically, what happened is they kept nerfing Alistar's ability to build straight AP by taking his ratios down, but then they also took down the damage reduction on his ult so now he at least needs to build a bit of tankiness. At the same time, they increased Galio's ult damage reduction from 20% (30%?) to 50%. Galio has always been a decent mage, it's just he was a better tank due to his ratios being better (this would make him a better tank because he'd get more damage from MR, now I think the damage he gets from MR alone is a little too low to justify building straight tank), his base damage already being outrageous, and the fact he kind of needed to build at least some defenses for his ult. Now, he can just stack AP, pop a Bulwark on himself, then ult. 90 armour + 50% damage reduction + the healing (and with a decent amount of AP that's going to be 250-ish the first tick). Personally I like Chalice > Treads > Hat > Abyssal Sceptre as my core. Sometimes grabbing a Negatron earlier for easier laning. Chuck him mid. Bam, you pretty much the strongest laner in the game and the best mage all in one.


So today I discovered that Agony increases ignite damage.:smallbiggrin: I actually won a game as swain for once and took the ignite spell. That's a "first" and a "first since morde was nerfed".
Yup, all damage.

Torment. Agony is an ability o Mundo. :smalltongue:

Torment also increases the damage of items such as Thornmail, Deathfire, Gunblade, Sunfire, etc.
And Smite.

It should work with Kayle's Q, too. Smite does.
Talon's flash also increases damage by 15%. It's part of what makes him such a good jungler. "Oh, you wanted that Blue? Shame I stole it with my 1000 damage Smite"

40 minutes in. Your comp is Ashe, Irelia, Sejuani, Soraka, *insert a hard-scaling mage like Karthus here*. Assuming both sides play well, can you lose?
You would lose against a Morgana comboed with a relatively hard carry I think. You would maybe also lose against Janna? While you've got a lot of CC you don't have huuuuge amounts of really strong initiation. Also, Gangplank, Alistar, Olaf and anyone with Cleanse would probably give you a hard time.

[Math_Mage]

You would lose against a Morgana comboed with a relatively hard carry I think. You would maybe also lose against Janna? While you've got a lot of CC you don't have huuuuge amounts of really strong initiation. Also, Gangplank, Alistar, Olaf and anyone with Cleanse would probably give you a hard time.

Irelia tanks Bindings like a boss. Ashe/Sejuani/Irelia have AMAZING initiation, and I haven't even included a mage yet (heck, make it Morgana for the lulz). Olaf would be annoying, it's true.

[Laudandus]

40 minutes in. Your comp is Ashe, Irelia, Sejuani, Soraka, *insert a hard-scaling mage like Karthus here*. Assuming both sides play well, can you lose?

I'll assume farm on everyone is equal, too. The only really scary thing about this comp at 40 minutes is karthus and strong initiates, since it really doesn't do that much physical damage (ashe damage is comparable to caitlyn). I don't think you can deal with vayne or tristana, especially vayne, who irelia really can't anti-carry.

Let's say the enemy team is Poppy, Gragas, Vayne, Alistar, Shyvana. Poppy kills your ashe, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Gragas focuses on bursting karthus and knocking him away from team fights. Shyvana can initiate quite well with red buff/mallet, and is impossible for the remaining melee bulkies to deal with (you have to kite her, and your ashe got poppy'ed). Meanwhile alistar stands in front of vayne, blocking sejuani and ashe ults from hitting her, while vayne does so much damage you can't ignore it, and no one on your team can deal with her.

[Winthur]

40 minutes in. Your comp is Ashe, Irelia, Sejuani, Soraka, *insert a hard-scaling mage like Karthus here*. Assuming both sides play well, can you lose?

Top lane, AD carry and jungler fall off hard in this late game.

Basically anything to say shut up to Karthus (Gragas is a good suggestion, also Kassadin or even LeBlanc or Veigar, or a Lee Sin jungle to kick him away), a stronger carry (bonus points if its Tristana with her range that won't let any of them get close to her, particularly if she has Cleanse). Sejuani does no damage whatsoever. Once Karthus is nullified, this team is ripe for getting picked apart. I'd be even willing to add Nocturne to this mix. Also, yay for Banshee's Veils on everyone.

[Zen Master]

I just bought Leona. Is she as strong as she seems? Cause .... I am impressed!

[Dogmantra]

Okay so the more I play him the more I'm convinced Teemo is horrendously OP. Like, almost Galio level.

How the earth do you counter him? I sure as heck don't know.

[Winthur]

Okay so the more I play him the more I'm convinced Teemo is horrendously OP. Like, almost Galio level.

How the earth do you counter him? I sure as heck don't know.

Rumble? Kennen? Gangplank? Ryze?

I'm convinced the above people can hold their ground against Teemo if not win the lane, and past the laning phase Teemo offers less utility than the above mentioned; he kinda crushes the lane or loses for his team in most of my experience (for utility best champ is Katarina)

[Fredaintdead]

Okay so the more I play him the more I'm convinced Teemo is horrendously OP. Like, almost Galio level.

How the earth do you counter him? I sure as heck don't know.

I'd imagine a CC mage/mage-assassin with decent CC could do it with Oracle's Elixir.
CC locks him down to remove his escape, he's kind of squishy so the assassin burst should work well, and the mage part removes the function of his Q (it only makes basic attacks miss doesn't it?), and then the Oracle's removes the majority of the threat of mushrooms. Add an MR item onto that character and boom, his toxic shot does nothing.
So... Ahri? Morgana possibly... or Blitzcrank.

[Laudandus]

I just bought Leona. Is she as strong as she seems? Cause .... I am impressed!

Goose runs Leona/Jarvan, which no one I've seen has been able to counter in lane, and when I played against them was completely terrifying. Of competitive teams I've only seen them run her, but I think she's really good and other people just don't know how to play her.


Okay so the more I play him the more I'm convinced Teemo is horrendously OP. Like, almost Galio level.

How the earth do you counter him? I sure as heck don't know.

He's bad in team fights, and his main use is that if he wins lane he's really hard to deal with because he pushes forever (at least in my experience this is teemo's role). So you just pick someone who goes at least even with him in lane throughout the entire game - most casters, or Irelia.

[lord_khaine]

A brutal lane combo, like maybe Leona and Udyr or Panth might be able to deal with him as well?

[Dogmantra]

I'm finding myself disagreeing with all of that though. 'cause if he loses his lane he can farm right up to whatever tower he pleases and between his insane speed, three second port and infinite map awareness, he's safe. I also don't think any melee has the capacity to beat him except maybe Talon.

[Laudandus]

His lane opponent can just farm the lane too, though, if he lost his lane, and almost everyone is more useful in a team fight with farm than teemo. And if the lane opponent is beating him, they can keep him away from minions, preventing him from split pushing or doing anything useful. And if he goes and tries to team fight, he's going to do worse at it than 90% of toplaners.

There are definitely some melees that can beat him - irelia has a matchup that's probably even, though I'm not exactly sure. I beat all the teemos I've seen with irelia. When TSM runs Teemo as a counter to all of the european irelias, the lane generally seems to go about even. There are a few champions who definitely can beat teemo, though, like Ryze, whose Q's can't be blinded and do much, much more damage than Teemo autos while outranging teemo.

He's okay - I think what really holds him back from competitive play is that there is very little reason to run him over Nidalee.

[Morph Bark]

Well, Teemo is still rather susceptible to burst damage, but the burster would need to be able to get to him. Haven't really played him much the last couple of games (and not died as much as I used to before that), but LeBlanc, Akali and Vayne (at least with her ult or if she gets her stun off before Blinding Dart) could counter him.

Stealth champions in general might have one up on you in some situations. Those situations being you not having Oracles and there not being any shrooms nearby (or them having Oracles). An Evelynn* with damaging item actives that still fit in her build might be surprisingly effective. Plus if she manages to kill you, she's unlikely to die from your poison unless you are full AP.


*Not actually endorsing the use of Evelynn.

[EternalMelon]

I just bought Leona. Is she as strong as she seems? Cause .... I am impressed!
Indeed she is, hands down, my favorite champion. Probably teh best tank in the game too.
Her only flaw is 'dem shoos

Okay so the more I play him the more I'm convinced Teemo is horrendously OP. Like, almost Galio level.

How the earth do you counter him? I sure as heck don't know.
Kassadin seems like an easy counter during late game, maybe black mesa Yorric early? Infina sustain vs Infinit sustain.

A brutal lane combo, like maybe Leona and Udyr or Panth might be able to deal with him as well?
teemo hides under turret, stands on shroom. Can't be ganked, can't be dived. Yah, you might of shut down his farm for a while, but you shut down your panth (who needs the early game kills) or your udyr, who should be bear stomping.

His lane opponent can just farm the lane too, though, if he lost his lane, and almost everyone is more useful in a team fight with farm than teemo. And if the lane opponent is beating him, they can keep him away from minions, preventing him from split pushing or doing anything useful. And if he goes and tries to team fight, he's going to do worse at it than 90% of toplaners.
Actually, hes a pretty good teammate in teamfights, run in, explodo-shroom, run out, blinda dah AD carry, auto everyone, chase stragglers and runners with your DoT. He adds alot of damage (OMG I'm Phreaking out!) to the teamfight.
There are definitely some melees that can beat him - irelia has a matchup that's probably even, though I'm not exactly sure. I beat all the teemos I've seen with irelia. When TSM runs Teemo as a counter to all of the european irelias, the lane generally seems to go about even. There are a few champions who definitely can beat teemo, though, like Ryze, whose Q's can't be blinded and do much, much more damage than Teemo autos while outranging teemo.
Teemo switches lanes, wins game.
He's okay - I think what really holds him back from competitive play is that there is very little reason to run him over Nidalee.
Nidds not a bunneh. Nuff' said.

[lord_khaine]

teemo hides under turret, stands on shroom. Can't be ganked, can't be dived. Yah, you might of shut down his farm for a while, but you shut down your panth (who needs the early game kills) or your udyr, who should be bear stomping.

Still, i think its a decent tradeoff with shutting 1 lane down, without losing anything real on it.

[Dogmantra]

and almost everyone is more useful in a team fight with farm than teemo

Yeah, this is the part I'm finding hardest to believe. He has a wonderful kit. No game shattering ultimate, but then most carries don't use their ults as a huge thing either.

[Eldariel]

Whose idea was it to give Malzahar 3.7 + 1%/100 AP ratios anyways? That's ridiculous. Like, his damage without ult is on par with other mages using all their abilities. And he has the ability to do 70% Health damage in 5 seconds.

[EternalMelon]

Still, i think its a decent tradeoff with shutting 1 lane down, without losing anything real on it.
Shutting down Teemo is comparible to shutting down an early game stomper who doesn't scale into late game, and occupieing the time of Leona, when she should be helping Stomping teamfights?

[Volatar]

I obviously should play Leona again :smallsmile:

[Talesin]

Yeah, this is the part I'm finding hardest to believe. He has a wonderful kit. No game shattering ultimate, but then most carries don't use their ults as a huge thing either.

Saying that I think Teemo's ult is actually really quite powerful in team fights if you're able to plan it a little bit. If you realise a team fight is going to be up and you pre drop a few shrooms around the place, you can kite really well and blinding dart helps keep you alive that little bit longer on top of that. Is the damage of the mushroom split between the number of people that step on it or does everyone take the full load of damage?

Even if the damage is split, which i'm not sure it is, the slow is awesome. 50% slow for 4 seconds and using W to get some distance, which reapplies the passive speed boost after it wears off (which is pretty absurd), means you're going to be able to live a little longer than some other carries though hard CC will make short work of that. I tend to build Teemo AS-onhit so i'm not a glass cannon like most carries.

I wouldn't say his damage will get to the levels of Graves or Vayne but I can't say i've ever been in a fight where i've felt useless or at least one of the weaker members of my team. I think i'm gonna have to play him again tonight now, got me in the mood for some teemo destruction.

[EternalMelon]

I obviously should play Leona again :smallsmile:
Yes, yes you should.

[Copper8642]

Man, I love the GitP forums. I just spent an hour reading RIOT's actual League forums, and everyone was mean and nasty and a bunch of other terrible adjectives. Then I come here to read the LoL forum and it's better than the official one.

[EternalMelon]

Hey guys, in the last patch they introduced a bunch of...
Skarnerfs :smallcool:
http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x442/EternalMelon/SlowCain.jpg
Horendesly bad Photoshop ahoy!

[Winthur]

Hey guys, in the last patch they introduced a bunch of...
Skarnerfs :smallcool:
http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x442/EternalMelon/SlowCain.jpg
Horendesly bad Photoshop ahoy!

An Annie player told me today in champ select that I shouldn't play Skarner because he got nerfed. I ended up carrying everything but Annie still says that Skarner is bad, and I say, "Sejuani".

[Fredaintdead]

I've got a little bit of a project (that I just thought of) that I wouldn't mind having some help with.
Project name: Bear Kills - How to survive on Summoner's Rift
Project objective: Enter into the Summoner Showcase by being (hopefully) amusing via a silly voice.
Secondary objective: Demonstrate running ability of Bear Stance. Turtle Shield. Make a pun about cats.
Project Requirements: 4 Summoners willing to put up with enough time for me to get a couple of items (Warmogs, Atmas, Sheen, Wriggles and Boots1), let me kill them all in a 1v4 (doing this at Baron could be good), chase me around the map a little and put up with my very bad Bear Grills impression.

So... any takers? :smallbiggrin:

[Shadowleaf]

I've got a little bit of a project (that I just thought of) that I wouldn't mind having some help with.
Project name: Bear Kills - How to survive on Summoner's Rift
Project objective: Enter into the Summoner Showcase by being (hopefully) amusing via a silly voice.
Secondary objective: Demonstrate running ability of Bear Stance. Turtle Shield. Make a pun about cats.
Project Requirements: 4 Summoners willing to put up with enough time for me to get a couple of items (Warmogs, Atmas, Sheen, Wriggles and Boots1), let me kill them all in a 1v4 (doing this at Baron could be good), chase me around the map a little and put up with my very bad Bear Grills impression.

So... any takers? :smallbiggrin:I don't mind lending a hand, assuming it is at least somewhat compatible with EU time.

[Fredaintdead]

I don't mind lending a hand, assuming it is at least somewhat compatible with EU time.

I'm from England, so it should be perfectly compatible with the majority of EU timezones... I hope. And thank you.
Hmmm, if it all possible, I'd like to get it done on a weekend, but we can discuss this when we have a full team together. Pick a champ that isn't Vayne or Udyr and we're good to go effectively.

[EternalMelon]

I've got a little bit of a project (that I just thought of) that I wouldn't mind having some help with.
Project name: Bear Kills - How to survive on Summoner's Rift
Project objective: Enter into the Summoner Showcase by being (hopefully) amusing via a silly voice.
Secondary objective: Demonstrate running ability of Bear Stance. Turtle Shield. Make a pun about cats.
Project Requirements: 4 Summoners willing to put up with enough time for me to get a couple of items (Warmogs, Atmas, Sheen, Wriggles and Boots1), let me kill them all in a 1v4 (doing this at Baron could be good), chase me around the map a little and put up with my very bad Bear Grills impression.

So... any takers? :smallbiggrin:
I wouldn't mind, but I'm on NA, don't know if that matters.

[Mirrinus]

I'd love to be part of a video, but alas, I too am NA.

[Qwertystop]

An Annie player told me today in champ select that I shouldn't play Skarner because he got nerfed. I ended up carrying everything but Annie still says that Skarner is bad, and I say, "Sejuani".

I don't get it. Then again, I've seen only 3 Sejuanis, and in order, they went: Jungler, AP duo lane, AD duo lane.

[Mirrinus]

I don't get it. Then again, I've seen only 3 Sejuanis, and in order, they went: Jungler, AP duo lane, AD duo lane.

Sejuani

Says you, Annie.

[Fredaintdead]

I wouldn't mind, but I'm on NA, don't know if that matters.

Also on NA, so I welcome you aboard. :smallsmile:


I'd love to be part of a video, but alas, I too am NA.

Same deal. :smallsmile:

Pick a champ then (that isn't Udyr or Vayne) and once we've got everyone we can start working out when we can do this.

[Morph Bark]

An Annie player told me today in champ select that I shouldn't play Skarner because he got nerfed. I ended up carrying everything but Annie still says that Skarner is bad, and I say, "Sejuani".

Which makes no sense since Sejuani isn't bad and neither Skarner nor Annie is Sejuani?


I've got a little bit of a project (that I just thought of) that I wouldn't mind having some help with.
Project name: Bear Kills - How to survive on Summoner's Rift
Project objective: Enter into the Summoner Showcase by being (hopefully) amusing via a silly voice.
Secondary objective: Demonstrate running ability of Bear Stance. Turtle Shield. Make a pun about cats.
Project Requirements: 4 Summoners willing to put up with enough time for me to get a couple of items (Warmogs, Atmas, Sheen, Wriggles and Boots1), let me kill them all in a 1v4 (doing this at Baron could be good), chase me around the map a little and put up with my very bad Bear Grills impression.

So... any takers? :smallbiggrin:

I'll take it. Well, depends. Are we doing full teams (or at least 4v4)?

For extra cat puns, insert Katarina and Nidalee. I've got Katarina, but I feel like doing Sejuani.

[Fredaintdead]

Which makes no sense since Sejuani isn't bad and neither Skarner nor Annie is Sejuani?



I'll take it. Well, depends. Are we doing full teams (or at least 4v4)?

For extra cat puns, insert Katarina and Nidalee. I've got Katarina, but I feel like doing Sejuani.

It's effectively going to be 1v5, since I don't remember Bear Grills ever having anyone with him... unless people think it would be funnier if I have my faithful cameraman (who inevitably argue with)... no idea on how to record their audio too... need to learn how to use Fraps better.

And that makes it a full group I think... I'll put the cameraman thing to a vote. Voters, you have an hour to say whether you want an argumentative cameraman!

Morph, are you on NA servers?

[shadowwalker64]

Regarding Teemo, I think that not many people at all can actually face him off in a 1 vs 1 lane (top lane, of course). Typical tops have to close in to at least 525-400 range in order to harass or even last hit (typical examples: gp and yorick). However, teemo can just punish them by AA, Dart and another AA, which is a lot more than standard bruisers can put out in return (excluding critplank, but even then). The only ones I can think of putting up a good fight are Yorick (who may or may not be able to break even in terms of damage sustained), full critpage GP (cos, y'know), Riven (shield parts of the damage and does more damage I think?) and a good wukong (who can only take one AA if he's quick enough with decoy). And apart from that the other ranged tops like Brand and Urgot, who can outdamage him if they're smart. The main thing I feel is that teemo is very anti-bruiser, and so can be put top lane. In addition, because of shrooms, he doesn't have to worry about getting ganked, and so can push and farm to his content.

EDIT: Irelia too probs, as she can heal anything off...

In regards to Leona, she's probably one of the most underrated tanks/supports in the game, with massive CC. I've had many a game where Bot lane panth (me) and someone else with Leona just absolutely dominated the lane. The main selling point is being able to close gaps with the squishier champ quicker, like alistair but with more survivability due to bubble. Only problem is that she actually needs farm more than other supports.

[Reynard]

Herpaderper for cameraman!

Also, I can help with said video, just give me a time.
Note: I don't have Herpaderper.

[Fredaintdead]

Herpaderper for cameraman!

Also, I can help with said video, just give me a time.
Note: I don't have Herpaderper.

Well, right now I'm struggling to find ways to record it with audio since Fraps Free Version limits you to 30 seconds. I do have the LoL Replay thing at least, but there's no way I can edit that right now.

... and I have no idea who Herpaderper is.

[Kairaven]

I love Leona and consider her my main tank.

But her weakness is her farm and the massive dependence on the rest of your team to follow up and kill the enemies you target.

Really, in order for her to farm she needs certain items, either some AD and attack speed, or a good chunk of AP. With some items she can farm adequately albeit not fast compared to others. And really most of the time if I lane with someone else my passive just helps them take the farm from me.

So the easiest way for her to get gold is to build gold/5 and play 0CS. As with any 0cs play, you are basically placing your level and gold farm on the rest of your team to do well enough so that you get assists/dragon/turrets golds.

On a well played team as 0cs I expect to get around at most 11~12k gold which I use for shurelia, frozen heart, FoN, ninja tabi/merc, and maybe a frozen mallet, plus potions and wards. that give me a decent tanking power that lets me lock down a target or two for around 5~8 seconds on my own, but not killing them.

Now, I suppose if I go less tanky and build AP or maybe AD Leona she might be able to get kills but I have no idea how to build her or play her that way.

[Reynard]

Well, right now I'm struggling to find ways to record it with audio since Fraps Free Version limits you to 30 seconds. I do have the LoL Replay thing at least, but there's no way I can edit that right now.

... and I have no idea who Herpaderper is.

Herpaderper = Heimerdigner.

And yeah, it's surprisingly hard to find a decent free program with which you can record gameplay. Avoid hypercam, it comes bundled with some weird virus-like thing that changes your homepage.

[Fredaintdead]

Herpaderper = Heimerdigner.

And yeah, it's surprisingly hard to find a decent free program with which you can record gameplay. Avoid hypercam, it comes bundled with some weird virus-like thing that changes your homepage.

Okay, thanks for the heads up. I'll let people know if I find a decent program.

[Mutant Bunny]

I love Leona and consider her my main tank.

But her weakness is her farm and the massive dependence on the rest of your team to follow up and kill the enemies you target.

Really, in order for her to farm she needs certain items, either some AD and attack speed, or a good chunk of AP. With some items she can farm adequately albeit not fast compared to others. And really most of the time if I lane with someone else my passive just helps them take the farm from me.

So the easiest way for her to get gold is to build gold/5 and play 0CS. As with any 0cs play, you are basically placing your level and gold farm on the rest of your team to do well enough so that you get assists/dragon/turrets golds.

On a well played team as 0cs I expect to get around at most 11~12k gold which I use for shurelia, frozen heart, FoN, ninja tabi/merc, and maybe a frozen mallet, plus potions and wards. that give me a decent tanking power that lets me lock down a target or two for around 5~8 seconds on my own, but not killing them.

Now, I suppose if I go less tanky and build AP or maybe AD Leona she might be able to get kills but I have no idea how to build her or play her that way.

Triforce instead of Frozen Mallet. Phage alone is enough for midgame, and a stunbot like Leona always has use for a non-ult slow. I'd suggest picking it up sometime between getting glacial shroud and finishing frozen heart.

[Winthur]

Sejuani

Says you, Annie.

Congrats Mirrinus, you're not a scrub :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

And that makes it a full group I think... I'll put the cameraman thing to a vote. Voters, you have an hour to say whether you want an argumentative cameraman!

Morph, are you on NA servers?

I'm in the Netherlands, so right across the pond from you. :smalltongue:

Do you want the opposing team to record audio as well? Because that might be a problem, I would think.

[tribble]

Leona is a very good champion. I don't have much to say about the subject other than Leona is good.
I have to say that if singed for some reason doesn't wind up solo top against teemo and therefore doesn't get shut down early he can push teemo's wave back with very little effort, and with a rylais can catch and kill teemo with a little effort.

[Fredaintdead]

I'm in the Netherlands, so right across the pond from you. :smalltongue:

Do you want the opposing team to record audio as well? Because that might be a problem, I would think.

Not necessary for the opposing team to record. Right now I'm having enough problems trying to find a way I can record it myself without having to clip together hundreds of 30 second clips.

I asked about the server because while I'm from the UK, I play on the NA servers.

[Kairaven]

Triforce instead of Frozen Mallet. Phage alone is enough for midgame, and a stunbot like Leona always has use for a non-ult slow. I'd suggest picking it up sometime between getting glacial shroud and finishing frozen heart.

thought about that actually, guess I would need to squeeze another 800 gold from somewhere. now would you take sheen before phage?

I guess this is the order I would attempt.
fairy charm +pot+ward --->philo stone --->ninjatabi/merc --->glacial shroud ---> phage/sheen? ---> frozen heart ---> shurelia ---> foN --->Triforce

[ex cathedra]

Leona is a very good champion. I don't have much to say about the subject other than Leona is good.
I have to say that if singed for some reason doesn't wind up solo top against teemo and therefore doesn't get shut down early he can push teemo's wave back with very little effort, and with a rylais can catch and kill teemo with a little effort.

The fact that Teemo A) obviously wrecks Singed in lane and B) is extremely capable of kiting Singed between Frozen Mallet and Move Quick makes me think that listing Singed as a counter to Teemo is probably not a good idea.

Gangplank, Riven, and Kennen are the most common laners who have skill-based match-ups against Teemo. I wouldn't be surprised if Pantheon did well, either, but practically no one actually plays Pantheon unless they want to counter GP.

Udyr is fine with any jungle support at all; if he can stay in lane long enough to farm a Wriggles, he should be fine up until he gets a Spirit Visage. At that point, he immediately wins the lane.


thought about that actually, guess I would need to squeeze another 800 gold from somewhere. now would you take sheen before phage?

I guess this is the order I would attempt.
fairy charm +pot+ward --->philo stone --->ninjatabi/merc --->glacial shroud ---> phage/sheen? ---> frozen heart ---> shurelia ---> foN --->Triforce
I would almost never suggest Sheen before Phage. Phage is an absurdly powerful item that offers way more utility and strength in lane than Sheen in most cases.

I would suggest Philo -> Boots 1 -> Phage -> Aegis -> Frozen Heart, upgrading boots when you have to. If you have enough gold after that, Negatron -> Shurelya's -> Triforce -> FoN.

[Shadowleaf]

Not necessary for the opposing team to record. Right now I'm having enough problems trying to find a way I can record it myself without having to clip together hundreds of 30 second clips.

I asked about the server because while I'm from the UK, I play on the NA servers.Audacity works and is free. You can just record the volume after the video itself.

[Fredaintdead]

Audacity works and is free. You can just record the volume after the video itself.

Thanks for the suggestion dude. I'll look it up.

[Joran]

Regarding Teemo, I think that not many people at all can actually face him off in a 1 vs 1 lane (top lane, of course). Typical tops have to close in to at least 525-400 range in order to harass or even last hit (typical examples: gp and yorick). However, teemo can just punish them by AA, Dart and another AA, which is a lot more than standard bruisers can put out in return (excluding critplank, but even then). The only ones I can think of putting up a good fight are Yorick (who may or may not be able to break even in terms of damage sustained), full critpage GP (cos, y'know), Riven (shield parts of the damage and does more damage I think?) and a good wukong (who can only take one AA if he's quick enough with decoy). And apart from that the other ranged tops like Brand and Urgot, who can outdamage him if they're smart. The main thing I feel is that teemo is very anti-bruiser, and so can be put top lane. In addition, because of shrooms, he doesn't have to worry about getting ganked, and so can push and farm to his content.


Yorick's two harassment spells are 550 and 600 range and the ghouls continue the harass. Yorick is the natural counter to top lane Teemo I think because he has sustain and ranged harass.

I remember my friend playing Teemo had a terrible time against a good Yorick up top, constantly getting low and being harassed even under tower.

[tribble]

The fact that Teemo A) obviously wrecks Singed in lane and B) is extremely capable of kiting Singed between Frozen Mallet and Move Quick makes me think that listing Singed as a counter to Teemo is probably not a good idea.


I won't dispute you on A, but with the free tenacity and movespeed from insanity potion and the absolutely devastating slow from superglue kiting singed is harder than it sounds.

[Darth Mario]

Thanks for the suggestion dude. I'll look it up.

As an audio engineer I vouch 100% for Audacity being the best available free software. Hell, professionals themselves use it when they need to make a quick cut. It's entirely capable of doing everything you need it to with ease.

[Fredaintdead]

As an audio engineer I vouch 100% for Audacity being the best available free software. Hell, professionals themselves use it when they need to make a quick cut. It's entirely capable of doing everything you need it to with ease.

Well, I have it now, so hopefully it can do what I need it to. So right now, LoLReplay is providing the video, and Audacity is providing the audio like Xin Zhao.

[ex cathedra]

I won't dispute you on A, but with the free tenacity and movespeed from insanity potion and the absolutely devastating slow from superglue kiting singed is harder than it sounds.

Tenacity doesn't really have an effect on Frozen Mallet; the slow is reapplied with each auto-attack and thus lowering its duration doesn't do anything as long as Teemo is competent enough to stutterstep in some attacks as he flees. Additionally, since Teemo's slow can be reapplied and Singed's slow is one-time only, and since slows are more powerful than movement speed buffs (due to the interaction between the two), it seems like a reasonable outcome for the situation. If Teemo scores a hit with a mushroom, as he almost certainly should, it shifts even more towards Teemo's favor.

Anyways, Teemo has a pretty massive farm advantage against Jungle Singed, and that definitely should come into play in any of these scenarios.

[LordShotGun]

So I actually found a use for pantheon. Between a few practice games and watching Guardsmen Bob, pantheon absolutely wreaks gangplank in lane.

Parrley? Nope, got shield and now you just took a spearshot to the face.

Gank? Nope, got shield.

Hiding under your turret? Gonna go gank mid or even bottom with manfall.

Pantheon utterly denies gankplank any farm after the first few levels and can force him out of lane by himself. With a gank you can usually kill him if your jungler has some sort of CC.

[lord_khaine]

Really, in order for her to farm she needs certain items, either some AD and attack speed, or a good chunk of AP. With some items she can farm adequately albeit not fast compared to others. And really most of the time if I lane with someone else my passive just helps them take the farm from me.

Thats not quite true, if you focus W like you should, then you can farm entire minion waves, simply by comboing E&W (be carefull not to hit an enemy champion accidentialy).


I would suggest Philo -> Boots 1 -> Phage -> Aegis -> Frozen Heart, upgrading boots when you have to. If you have enough gold after that, Negatron -> Shurelya's -> Triforce -> FoN.

Im personaly going Philo--> Boots 1, and then depending on the situation i either get stompers, Sheen or phage in some sort of order.

If you are laning against someone squishy, then a Sheen can really boost your early game burst, and give you some kills as well.

[shadowwalker64]

So I actually found a use for pantheon. Between a few practice games and watching Guardsmen Bob, pantheon absolutely wreaks gangplank in lane.

Parrley? Nope, got shield and now you just took a spearshot to the face.

Gank? Nope, got shield.

Hiding under your turret? Gonna go gank mid or even bottom with manfall.

Pantheon utterly denies gankplank any farm after the first few levels and can force him out of lane by himself. With a gank you can usually kill him if your jungler has some sort of CC.

eeeeeehh not really. From my own experiences, Pantheon does not wreck GP top, and in fact shouldn't be played top ever, or at least in very few situations. Mid is better for panth than top.

Against GP, panth cannot trade. GP instead uses parley to farm. GP can orange off spear shots, and if you're focusing spear you aren't doing it right. Gankplank, if anything, does make pantheon pay for trying to W->E ->Q combo him, because he can AA, Parley and then AA twice more at least. This, combined with oranges, not only puts him at least even with pantheon in terms of damage exchange, but also leaves GP at a superior position manawise. Also, shield doesn't save you from ganks.

Panth instead should be played as Anti-carry bot, or as a novel jungler (especially because spear doesn't apply red now). He does a better job at denying bot by killing the enemy support and carry and then making them afraid to farm because they know that if they do, they will just get instagibbed by the panth with three doran's blades as a result of prior kills.

[LordShotGun]

eeeeeehh not really. From my own experiences, Pantheon does not wreck GP top, and in fact shouldn't be played top ever, or at least in very few situations. Mid is better for panth than top.

Against GP, panth cannot trade. GP instead uses parley to farm. GP can orange off spear shots, and if you're focusing spear you aren't doing it right. Gankplank, if anything, does make pantheon pay for trying to W->E ->Q combo him, because he can AA, Parley and then AA twice more at least. This, combined with oranges, not only puts him at least even with pantheon in terms of damage exchange, but also leaves GP at a superior position manawise. Also, shield doesn't save you from ganks.

Panth instead should be played as Anti-carry bot, or as a novel jungler (especially because spear doesn't apply red now). He does a better job at denying bot by killing the enemy support and carry and then making them afraid to farm because they know that if they do, they will just get instagibbed by the panth with three doran's blades as a result of prior kills.

Runes WILL make or break this matchup, so perhaps your experience didn't have the right rune set.

The only way GP can oranges off his spearshot is if he focuses it. If GP uses parrley to farm then, Panth will just spear him to death with impunity. If GP tries to parrley back, then shield blocks it.

The best way to deal damage to GP is he is trying to parrley farm is W - AA - AA - Q and NEVER use E. Heck never get E after the first level for the auto crit passive. GP can't oranges that away (the damage that is) and comes off the worse end because parrley had already been spent on a creep.

It requires a specific rune set that bob uses (I have a partial copy and its works ok, ARpen and flat mana regen for early game) and a different more aggressive method of play (which needs a river ward) rather then the passive mid farming play.

[Math_Mage]

eeeeeehh not really. From my own experiences, Pantheon does not wreck GP top, and in fact shouldn't be played top ever, or at least in very few situations. Mid is better for panth than top.

Against GP, panth cannot trade. GP instead uses parley to farm. GP can orange off spear shots, and if you're focusing spear you aren't doing it right. Gankplank, if anything, does make pantheon pay for trying to W->E ->Q combo him, because he can AA, Parley and then AA twice more at least. This, combined with oranges, not only puts him at least even with pantheon in terms of damage exchange, but also leaves GP at a superior position manawise. Also, shield doesn't save you from ganks.

Panth instead should be played as Anti-carry bot, or as a novel jungler (especially because spear doesn't apply red now). He does a better job at denying bot by killing the enemy support and carry and then making them afraid to farm because they know that if they do, they will just get instagibbed by the panth with three doran's blades as a result of prior kills.

Pantheon wrecks GP because his harass deals more damage for less mana and he outmatches GP's orange sustain with Aegis protection--it's the same reason Riven wrecks GP. Consider that if GP ever tries to Q Pantheon, Pantheon *probably* blocks with Aegis, then Q-W-auto-chase-Q and GP can't even trade properly because of the second Aegis proc. HSS is a complete waste of mana in lane and naturally Panth will lose if he uses it. And I don't know what you're doing with lane Pantheon if you're not maxing Spear Shot first--it's simply the best skill to focus, as it does more single-target damage at level 1 than HSS and scales better, on a lower CD, for less mana, at greater range.

[Cyborg Mage]

Cyborg Mage's W: Thread Tracker

Makes a useless post for the sole purpose of making it easier to find a thread and possibly amusing somebody. Take at level 1 and max second.

[ex cathedra]

Both of you are overly exaggerating the match-up. Pantheon is a very good choice against GP, especially considering how few MUs Pantheon out-right wins and how many of the same that GP wins.

However, Pantheon does not remove GP from the game on his own. Pantheon is still gankable and Wriggles give GP the stats that he needs to still manage to farm midgame. Shield is great while laning, but in no way does it make you impervious to ganks.

Oranges don't work that way. The only chance in hell GP has to out-orange spear shot is if he focuses it and is fed blue buff; in that case, he can't contribute enough early game to win his lane at all. It some ways, he's already lost it.

Focusing Q is the correct choice for Panth in a solo lane, and even in a duo-lane unless you're laning with someone like Leona, where you can chain ~3 seconds of CC together at level 2. Q costs as much or less mana at every rank, has 50% more range, and has significantly less cooldown at every rank. E costs too much mana, pushes too hard to be purely harass, is too easy to dodge, and is just too unreliable.

[tribble]

You know who else pantheon does shockingly well against? Fizz. Ha Ha, fizz, you don't have a Q now. Or a W, for that matter.

[ex cathedra]

You know who else pantheon does shockingly well against? Fizz. Ha Ha, fizz, you don't have a Q now. Or a W, for that matter.

Fizz can E onto Panth while Spear is in mid air, hit W, melee panth, and then Q panth and still benefit from all of his skills. It doesn't seem like anything more than a skill-based match-up, aside from the fact that Fizz just wins at level 6.

[LordShotGun]

Both of you are overly exaggerating the match-up.

Eh probably. I was just happy to find out that pantheon was actually good versus SOMEONE rather then being a lackluster hero that has his job done better by just about all his peers.

[Math_Mage]

^ For what it's worth, I agree that Pantheon stomps that lane. He just doesn't do it as well as Riven, because Riven is also stupidly hard to gank.

Hey Dog. AD Kennen in tournaments for the win. (http://iemkiev.leagueoflegends.com/match/group-b-round-21-moscow-five-vs-sypher) Thought you might be interested.

[OFWGKTA]

I just bought Leona. Is she as strong as she seems? Cause .... I am impressed!
Leona is great for kill bot lanes. Leona/Ryze is a stomp the **** out of them or lose lane, so fun though.

[tribble]

Leona is great for kill bot lanes. Leona/Ryze is a stomp the **** out of them or lose lane, so fun though.

People nattered on a bit about Leona/lux when leona's passive was first announced, and having seen elo heaven I have to say there may be something to that.

[Mirrinus]

People nattered on a bit about Leona/lux when leona's passive was first announced, and having seen elo heaven I have to say there may be something to that.

That might be less Leona/Lux combo and more of Shurelia being the most ridiculously aggressive Leona player in the world.

[Reynard]

That might be less Leona/Lux combo and more of Shurelia being the most ridiculously successful aggressive Leona player in the world.

Fixed, I think. That girl be crazy, but my dear god does she know what she's doing.

[Fredaintdead]

Fixed, I think. That girl be crazy, but my dear god does she know what she's doing.

Indeed she is. I've only seen it once, some time ago, and it still sticks in my head. Her and that Garen carved their opponents up. Of course, Garen is perhaps the perfect early-game aggression champ, particularly with a CC-heavy partner.

[Joran]

Fixed, I think. That girl be crazy, but my dear god does she know what she's doing.

She's streaming AD Ahri...

http://shurelily.com/stream/

[Raistlin1040]

:smallsigh: Doesn't matter if you go 3/0 in lane as Morgana, deny the enemy Vlad farm and kills, and call MIA every time he so much as walks into a bush. If your team has no tank, no support, doesn't follow Morgana flashult for initiation, and tries to initiate with squishy Nidalee and Vayne, you're going to lose.

[Sohala]

Anyone else getting lag spikes, or moments where you can see everything that is going on but are unable to do anything?

[Mirrinus]

She's streaming AD Ahri...

Trust Shurelia to make that work, stealing red buff from the enemy AD carry at level 1. Hahaha...

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Just played a game of support Shen.

I think I'd like him top better, and I wonder if there's anything specific I ought to be doing. His costs are really high early...

[sucatraps]

Anyone else getting lag spikes, or moments where you can see everything that is going on but are unable to do anything?

Server-wide lag problems tonight.

[Math_Mage]

:smallsigh: Doesn't matter if you go 3/0 in lane as Morgana, deny the enemy Vlad farm and kills, and call MIA every time he so much as walks into a bush. If your team has no tank, no support, doesn't follow Morgana flashult for initiation, and tries to initiate with squishy Nidalee and Vayne, you're going to lose.

Screw flashult initiation. Just QW something and watch its health bar disappear. Then ult when the enemy decides it doesn't want to keep getting QW'd to death and tries to jump someone.

[TechnOkami]

I like flash ulting as Swain, and then hourglassing if necessary.

[Eldariel]

Just played a game of support Shen.

I think I'd like him top better, and I wonder if there's anything specific I ought to be doing. His costs are really high early...

I don't think it's sensible to run him support. He really does need a solo lane to shine; he's not tanky without a few items, he only has one CC ability (albeit combined with a wonderful harass tool) for lane and his ult, while great, tends to rely on him being somewhat strong since the principal effect is getting somewhere.

[Elagune]

Spent a couple hours on this, hope you guys like!

Two of a Kind! (http://tryyourbest.deviantart.com/art/Two-of-a-Kind-280678311)

Now to post in the Dota 2 thread!

[Dogmantra]

Screw flashult initiation.

But if you don't flash ult then what's the point of Morgana that's like playing Kennen and being passive in lane. Or playing Mordekaiser and doing something other than blasting music while you split push and entirely screw over your team.

[TechnOkami]

Spent a couple hours on this, hope you guys like!

Two of a Kind! (http://tryyourbest.deviantart.com/art/Two-of-a-Kind-280678311)

Now to post in the Dota 2 thread!

Nice!

So, obviously that's Annie in her lap, but whose the other lady? I'm just going to go on a limb and assume she's from Dota.

[littlebottom]

Today ive been playing orianna a bit differently, so far seems like its potentially viable, but im not sure, ive been testing it in co-op vs AI so it might not work so well pvp, but essentially hide, and lane with an aggressive melee, and just up your E and W virtually ignoring Q except 1 rank just for ball positioning. it seems pretty effective since you shield them as they go in and explode them doing a lot of damage from miles out of even the longest basic ranges, usually when i play orianna E gets neglected since its not very reliable way to do damage or prevent it if its 1v1 (usually in mid you see)

[efdf]

Nice!

So, obviously that's Annie in her lap, but whose the other lady? I'm just going to go on a limb and assume she's from Dota.

lina inverse

fire mage from dota

[9mm]

Moscow 5 be crazy. That is all.

[Winthur]

lina inverse

fire mage from dota

her ult is so broken even despite the channeling time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1U9ESUBpmA)

[9mm]

her ult is so broken even despite the channeling time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1U9ESUBpmA)

um that's her Q.

[Winthur]

um that's her Q.

If she was Franco-Greek it would be Her-Q-le.
(honestly Dragon Slave is way too dramatic to be just her basic skill)

[PersonMan]

So, I play Soraka. While playing with some friends, I explained how, after laning, I just sort of...stop caring, almost.

'Whole enemy team guarding that turret? Pffffft, I'm Soraka.'

'Enemy 11/2/9 AD carry coming? No prob, I'm Soraka, I'm immune to damage.'

So, without further explanation ado, I present my guide to Soraka. In pictures and music.

First off, this is Soraka's theme song: Soraka theme. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjgLZEOih6k&feature=related) (Warning, there's an NSFW thing at about 3:09.)

For inspiration on how to play after laning, see the following images:

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/Murderraka1.jpg

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/Murderraka2.jpg

(At the bottom it says 'indestructible', which is what you are.)

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz261/Scarge/Murderraka3.jpg

[Mc. Lovin']

Moscow 5 be crazy. That is all.

I wanted them to win because of their awesome team lineups. Also 18 min baron!! Wow they are cool

[tribble]

Ever stop to wonder what your favorite champion would be like if they were from DotA? So far, I've decided that Eve would still have a stun, and that's all I've figured out so far.

[Fredaintdead]

Ever stop to wonder what your favorite champion would be like if they were from DotA? So far, I've decided that Eve would still have a stun, and that's all I've figured out so far.

Hmmm... Olaf's ult would be a permanent passive immunity to CC, his Q would stun instead of slow, his E would deal twice the damage, his passive would grant base attack speed + MORE per % of missing health, oh, and his W would have higher scaling and grant twice the lifesteal and spellvamp.

[Brother Oni]

Since I see no mention of them in the first post, (so I apologise if they've been linked to in another thread), there's a whole bunch of Chinese fan animations of LoL called Lalala DemaCia:

Episode 1: Cataclysm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM1rva0wwIA)
Episode 2: Sparta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnUT2AlJQ_s)
Episode 3: Miss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avDayNRMneA)
Episode 4: Spin to Win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJEnK87KH4)
Episode 5: Brothers, look at me... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKegiMwA9H0)
Episode 6: Ashe shoots (http://www.youtube.com/user/carlsquared22#p/u/5/lQ6JCHplNgA)

They've got a whole stack of Chinese cultural references (Xin claiming descendancy from Zhao Yun, their version of the Peach Garden oath), and some censored profanity, but I think they're understandable enough to most people. :smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

Ever stop to wonder what your favorite champion would be like if they were from DotA? So far, I've decided that Eve would still have a stun, and that's all I've figured out so far.

I feel like for some reason Amumu would be a robot and his Bandage Toss would be his ultimate. But that's just crazy talk right?

Hmmm, Teemo's Move Quick would probably just be a permanent passive.

[Fredaintdead]

I feel like for some reason Amumu would be a robot and his Bandage Toss would be his ultimate. But that's just crazy talk right?

Hmmm, Teemo's Move Quick would probably just be a permanent passive.

Amumu would be Tidehunter. :smalltongue:

[Penguinizer]

It's really hard to translate them directly since most LoL characters are combined from either straight copies or reworked versions of DotA abilities.

Only a few translated fairly straight like Clockwerk/Amumu.

[tribble]

Or blood hunter/Warwick.

[9mm]

If she was Franco-Greek it would be Her-Q-le.
(honestly Dragon Slave is way too dramatic to be just her basic skill)

nope it's her Q (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Lina)

As for bringing DotA heroes into LoL; its an interesting thought experiment. I once wrote down what I thought Axe/legionaire might look like; and I was really torn over his power-level. That said, there is no way Void/Chronos would work in a LoL format.

[Raistlin1040]

Since I see no mention of them in the first post, (so I apologise if they've been linked to in another thread), there's a whole bunch of Chinese fan animations of LoL called Lalala DemaCia:

Episode 1: Cataclysm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM1rva0wwIA)
Episode 2: Sparta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnUT2AlJQ_s)
Episode 3: Miss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avDayNRMneA)
Episode 4: Spin to Win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJEnK87KH4)
Episode 5: Brothers, look at me... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKegiMwA9H0)
Episode 6: Ashe shoots (http://www.youtube.com/user/carlsquared22#p/u/5/lQ6JCHplNgA)

They've got a whole stack of Chinese cultural references (Xin claiming descendancy from Zhao Yun, their version of the Peach Garden oath), and some censored profanity, but I think they're understandable enough to most people. :smallbiggrin:We've been watching them. Mirrinus posts the new ones every time they pop up. Besides, it's not like those cultural references are exactly obscure. RotK references are pretty obvious to pick out.

[Penguinizer]

nope it's her Q (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Lina)

As for bringing DotA heroes into LoL; its an interesting thought experiment. I once wrote down what I thought Axe/legionaire might look like; and I was really torn over his power-level. That said, there is no way Void/Chronos would work in a LoL format.

There are some really cool characters that just wouldn't work in LoL like Invoker, Chen/Nature's Prophet, maybe Doombringer.

Anyways, it's hard to say what Olaf's ult would be like since Olaf ult is just basically just Black King Bar's active with some damage reduction added to it.

[Fredaintdead]

There are some really cool characters that just wouldn't work in LoL like Invoker, Chen/Nature's Prophet, maybe Doombringer.

Anyways, it's hard to say what Olaf's ult would be like since Olaf ult is just basically just Black King Bar's active with some damage reduction added to it.

I didn't even know Olaf's ult reduced damage taken... and I play Olaf regularly... huh... Tank Olaf viable? I already build him pretty defence heavy anyway (offensive items taken currently: Atma's Impaler and Trinity Force).

[9mm]

There are some really cool characters that just wouldn't work in LoL like Invoker, Chen/Nature's Prophet, maybe Doombringer.

Anyways, it's hard to say what Olaf's ult would be like since Olaf ult is just basically just Black King Bar's active with some damage reduction added to it.

We have natures prophet, his name's Twisted Fate. Not a direct port, but the key/most memorable experiences are the same. Invoker falls apart because for all his so-called depth, he's really just another burst/utility caster who's gated by how well you can type. Doombringer is an easy port, his only offenders is his doom duration and sharing a skill with nunu. Chen would also be easy though Holy Persuasion would probably become a summon (creeps don't have ablities) and lose it's tp ablity (to prone to greifing/not needed).

[Silverraptor]

So, I watched Cwcriner playing Kennen on his stream, and it was really painful. However, his early game items were what caught my eye, since whenever I play kennen, I can't contribute until I get Rylai's up. Anyways, I tried my own variation from how Cwcriner built Kennen with how I normally build kennen. The result?
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/054.png

I think I will be able to create that updated how to build Kennen picture that Dog is too lazy to do.:smallamused:

[Dogmantra]

since whenever I play kennen, I can't contribute until I get Rylai's up.

yeah that's why Rylai's is crap to rush

it's only good if you get megafed, and you don't really see 1v2 Kennens dominating anymore

Phage is better

[Silverraptor]

yeah that's why Rylai's is crap to rush

it's only good if you get megafed, and you don't really see 1v2 Kennens dominating anymore

Phage is better

However, I found out how to contribute before Rylai's, and how to farm up fast enough that you're not delaying Rylai's by a lot of time.

[Qwertystop]

nope it's her Q (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Lina)

As for bringing DotA heroes into LoL; its an interesting thought experiment. I once wrote down what I thought Axe/legionaire might look like; and I was really torn over his power-level. That said, there is no way Void/Chronos would work in a LoL format.

I've wanted Enigma's W (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Enigma#Demonic_Conversion) to be in LoL since the first time I played him. Honestly, sometimes it feels like Riot's trolling that hope. First we get Nocturne, who looks like Enigma but with swords, then we get Yorick, who fits the zombie-army theme perfectly.

[9mm]

So, I watched Cwcriner playing Kennen on his stream, and it was really painful. However, his early game items were what caught my eye, since whenever I play kennen, I can't contribute until I get Rylai's up. Anyways, I tried my own variation from how Cwcriner built Kennen with how I normally build kennen. The result?
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/054.png

I think I will be able to create that updated how to build Kennen picture that Dog is too lazy to do.:smallamused:

Yeah I don't stream that often because my machine can only just barely handle it, which means my performance drops as my computer starts sucking wind. Glad I helped with improved kennen building though!

[Brother Oni]

We've been watching them. Mirrinus posts the new ones every time they pop up. Besides, it's not like those cultural references are exactly obscure. RotK references are pretty obvious to pick out.

There are number of missed translations though - for example Xin makes an 'arrow to the knee' type joke ('arrow to the daisy') which the translators don't pick up.

[tribble]

nope it's her Q (http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Lina)

As for bringing DotA heroes into LoL; its an interesting thought experiment. I once wrote down what I thought Axe/legionaire might look like; and I was really torn over his power-level. That said, there is no way Void/Chronos would work in a LoL format.

That said, I think that puck/bubbles would work just fine and I want him in League of Legends. I also kinda want necrolyte even though it would make mundo even worse. (Hm, I'm not really low enough to use sadism-OH GOD)

[Math_Mage]

So, I watched Cwcriner playing Kennen on his stream, and it was really painful. However, his early game items were what caught my eye, since whenever I play kennen, I can't contribute until I get Rylai's up. Anyways, I tried my own variation from how Cwcriner built Kennen with how I normally build kennen. The result?
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/054.png

I think I will be able to create that updated how to build Kennen picture that Dog is too lazy to do.:smallamused:

Dog swears by Sheen --> Trinity Force and despises WotA; besides, we're going to start seeing a rash of AD Kennens thanks to IEM Kiev.

[Dogmantra]

Dog swears by Sheen --> Trinity Force and despises WotA; besides, we're going to start seeing a rash of AD Kennens thanks to IEM Kiev.

AD Kennen I don't think is very good. Sheen for a megaggressive early game IS very good. Also I don't despise WotA, I just think it's not an item you want first.

And obviously you get your Triforces after your Hourglass, don't be silly.

[Silverraptor]

AD Kennen I don't think is very good. Sheen for a megaggressive early game IS very good. Also I don't despise WotA, I just think it's not an item you want first.

And obviously you get your Triforces after your Hourglass, don't be silly.

And I didn't get wota first. I only got a revolver after my second gold per 5 for some sustain in lane.

[tribble]

Screw you for linking to the Dota wiki, Qwertystop. I just blew an hour reading hero backstories.:smallannoyed:

Behold my terrible vengeance. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)

[Douglas]

Behold my terrible vengeance. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)
Meh. That works better if you provide a convenient starting point. Starting from the home page, your victims have to take the initiative in finding interesting reading.

[Mc. Lovin']

Guys, I'm falling in love with Nasus. I'm finding it a bit hard to transition from playing farming simulator 2012 and actually going to help do damage though. Any tips from veteran players?

Also I just went 16/0/16 as nidalee. I had to show off to someone about it other than any friend who would listen

[ex cathedra]

And I didn't get wota first. I only got a revolver after my second gold per 5 for some sustain in lane.

Gold per 10? On Kennen?

:smallfrown: What have they done to our youth?

WotA rush is where it's at. It's just too stronk.

[Dogmantra]

WotA rush is where it's at. It's just too stronk.

those caster minions need that spellvamp too badly to rush anything else

[9mm]

Gold per 10? On Kennen?

:smallfrown: What have they done to our youth?

WotA rush is where it's at. It's just too stronk.

Kage+revolver= E+W wave clear if done soon enough. which then means faster derpcap and being able to go gank. Also Late game you can either sell the kage for moar lootz or upgrade it to DFA for more boomz.

Edit: Wota itself is secondary but usually really good, there is very few heroes that don't like having access to spellvamp.



That said, I think that puck/bubbles would work just fine and I want him in League of Legends. I also kinda want necrolyte even though it would make mundo even worse. (Hm, I'm not really low enough to use sadism-OH GOD)

Guinsoo's stated on trying to get puck's sphere in but has yet to see a good implementation.

[Silverraptor]

Gold per 10? On Kennen?

:smallfrown: What have they done to our youth?

WotA rush is where it's at. It's just too stronk.

Its just the current meta these days.


Kage+revolver= E+W wave clear if done soon enough. which then means faster derpcap and being able to go gank. Also Late game you can either sell the kage for moar lootz or upgrade it to DFA for more boomz.

I got an extra heart of gold after kage's, mainly because Kennen is as squishy as hell and for more gold/5.

[ex cathedra]

Its just the current meta these days.

Gold/10 on Kennen or WotA being strong? The first would be wrong, and the second is entirely correct.

Buy a Giant's Belt instead of HoG npnp less wasted gold more midgame presence.

Build WotA, win your lane.

[Dogmantra]

actually HoG is good for Tankennen, get it then Sheen then finish Triforce then Randuin's/QSS and you always win

[Qwertystop]

Screw you for linking to the Dota wiki, Qwertystop. I just blew an hour reading hero backstories.:smallannoyed:

Behold my terrible vengeance. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage)
Too late, I just spent an hour on there.

Anyway, I only knew about the DotA wiki because someone else linked to Lina Inverse's Q. I've played DotA only over the course of a two-week computer camp session.

[TechnOkami]

...ugh, I don't want to do a 1v1 again.

[sucatraps]

But I love 1v1 games! Randomlock top lane, go!

Even when we get something stupid like Alistar vs. Olaf (in which Alistar is completely incapable of posing a threat at any stage of the game) it's fun, because I just practice last hitting without dying, and landing my WQ combo (for example).

[Mirrinus]

Today I played against a team that thought it would be a good idea to send Sejuani top against my Rumble.

Yeah, I ate her alive. She ended up going 0/4/1 with about 30 CS before her team surrendered at 20. I was at 4/1/5 with over 100 CS, and that was with their jungler spending over half his time up top.

[sucatraps]

and that was with their jungler spending over half his time up top.

Their jungler spent more time top than Sejuani did, but that's because she was having connection problems. Renekton didn't have much of a chance by that point anyway, due to failing ganks, being lower level than top (because, you know, Renekton jungle) and building poorly besides.

[Dogmantra]

(because, you know, Renekton jungle)

laning is just like, a crutch, man

[tribble]

I just had a game where my veigar's magic damage was tied by the other team's master yi. He didn't have a single point of ap, not so much as a ring. I know that most of that is likely from alpha strike proccing bonus damage on minions, but dang that's humiliating.

[TechnOkami]

But I love 1v1 games! Randomlock top lane, go!

Even when we get something stupid like Alistar vs. Olaf (in which Alistar is completely incapable of posing a threat at any stage of the game) it's fun, because I just practice last hitting without dying, and landing my WQ combo (for example).

Eh. I mean, yeah I see your point in terms of it being practice, but even then... meh, I just don't like having my @$$ handed to me with a champion I'm legitimately good at. :smallsigh:

[sucatraps]

TFT (http://imgur.com/iOjQu) is so proud. Yes, I know it doesn't update until they log out.

[Silverraptor]

Eh. I mean, yeah I see your point in terms of it being practice, but even then... meh, I just don't like having my @$$ handed to me with a champion I'm legitimately good at. :smallsigh:

Eh...Sorry.

[TechnOkami]

Eh...Sorry.

Nono, it's ok. Now I have a marker to see how skilled I am @ LoL.

...I should try that again with Vlad or Malz...

SOMEBODY CHALLENGE ME

[Eurus]

Nono, it's ok. Now I have a marker to see how skilled I am @ LoL.

...I should try that again with Vlad or Malz...

SOMEBODY CHALLENGE ME

Your views are invalid and your ethics antiquated.

...Oh, you meant... riiiiight. :smallredface:

[TechnOkami]

Your views are invalid and your ethics antiquated.

...Oh, you meant... riiiiight. :smallredface:

...I'll be frank, I don't get it.

[Mirrinus]

Okay, fine...I will actually install Mumble tonight...

[Math_Mage]

I just accidentally trollpicked my team in Ranked. I tentatively call mid to start, check their mid (Ahri), great, I'll lock in Annie and destroy the lane...wait a second, someone picked Karthus already. D'oh! :smallsigh:

So I solo top against Galio with defensive runes and Teleport, win lane, and our dual AP burst and Skarner's boss frontlining carry the day. :smallbiggrin:

Best part was when Udyr ganked me at level 4; I was ridiculously overextended, but between boots and MS masteries I just walked away from his Bear stun. So funneh.

[tribble]

...I'll be frank, I don't get it.

I don't think it's a movie quote or something like that, because google isn't turning anything up. I don't get it either.:smallconfused:

EDIT: Add this video to the op. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGz60wDqtco&feature=g-vrec&context=G29d21b4RVAAAAAAAAAg)

[Eurus]

I'm... y'know, challenging your beliefs. Or something. I don't know. I thought it was funny, jerks. :smalltongue:

[Litewarior]

Don't worry Eurus, I had to think about it for a second, but once I got it I laughed.

[Douglas]

It's almost the same joke as in this OotS comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html).

[Eurus]

It's almost the same joke as in this OotS comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html).

Yeah! I knew I'd heard something similar, couldn't remember where from.

[Eldariel]

SK wins G1 vs. Dignitas and has like 5k advantage in G2...and proceeds to throw it Solo Queue style and then get trashed G3. You can tell they haven't recovered from the changes in their line-up. Kevin in particular kept getting destroyed game after game, and Sleazy is not on the level of the top junglers.


M5 vs. TSM; TSM got the strongest lanes. Cassiopeia, Graves/Sona with a Skarner jungler. Irelia isn't as unbeatable but winning 2 out of 3 lanes should be more than enough. I don't understand why ban Ryze when you get to pick Cass though; Cass ****s on Ryze.

G1 of M5 vs. TSM (http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_event) starting just now.

[efdf]

I don't think jungle Skarner has ever won a tournament match

[Dogmantra]

I don't think jungle Skarner has ever won a tournament match

Has it got to do with the fact that while his jungle might be good, his ultimate is the only thing other champions don't have, and that's totally counterable with a 1440 gold item?

[Lix Lorn]

lolwhoops so THAT'S why I wasn't getting LoL thread alerts.

[Eldariel]

Has it got to do with the fact that while his jungle might be good, his ultimate is the only thing other champions don't have, and that's totally counterable with a 1440 gold item?

Well, he's winning a game now.

[Adumbration]

Well, he's winning a game now.

Dat top lane Shyvana...

[Eldariel]

Dat top lane Shyvana...

How to win in League of Legends: Farm your lane and enemy jungle and any other lanes while at it. My secret to winning everything forever with Anivia is out now :smallfrown:

[tribble]

How to win in League of Legends: Always be Janna

Fixed that for you.

[Astrella]

I want to have a game with a team consisting of Ashe, Ahri, Lux, Janna and Orianna. Too bad I can't play all of them myself at the same time.

[Silverraptor]

I want to have a game with a team consisting of Ashe, Ahri, Lux, Janna and Orianna. Too bad I can't play all of them myself at the same time.

Why all those, may I ask?

[toasty]

Tells team he wants to solo top vayne and go double AD. Team rages. Counter rages. Swaps with last pick to play support. Still goes 7/1/19 and outfarms everyone in the game as AD sona with shurelias and lots of wards. :smallbiggrin:

[tribble]

Why all those, may I ask?

Only common thread I see is female support semicarries. *shrug*

[Cyborg Mage]

... Ashe and Ahri are supports?

[Tychris1]

Apparently so

[LordShotGun]

So the new ninja tabis. Do they also reduce parrley by 10%? Since parrley is really just a ranged melee attack after all.

[tribble]

... Ashe and Ahri are supports?

well, not ahri, i guess, but ashe is considered a support/carry (although riot doesn't label her as such) because she has IKEA clairvoyance, a permaslow, and enchanted crystal arrow.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

So the new ninja tabis. Do they also reduce parrley by 10%? Since parrley is really just a ranged melee attack after all.

I've heard that they do reduce Parrley, but I've not tested it.

[Morph Bark]

well, not ahri, i guess, but ashe is considered a support/carry (although riot doesn't label her as such) because she has IKEA clairvoyance, a permaslow, and enchanted crystal arrow.

Ashe and AD Janna botlane FTW? :smallbiggrin:

[Dallas-Dakota]

It would make use of Ashe's passive!:smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

AP Janna totally counters this silly Shyvana Jungle Farm thingy. Push too hard, Shyv can't leave the lane, and Shyv can't really avoid Janna's harass while Gale + Zephyr + Shield make it impossible to get to her.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9736/jannavsshyvanacen.png

Lost a tad on CS since we had a ~10 min DC which forced us to kinda basehug, and because Malphite lived at top, but on lane I completely dominated her after the first level.

[Math_Mage]

AP Janna totally counters this silly Shyvana Jungle Farm thingy. Push too hard, Shyv can't leave the lane, and Shyv can't really avoid Janna's harass while Gale + Zephyr + Shield make it impossible to get to her.

<snip>

Lost a tad on CS since we had a ~10 min DC which forced us to kinda basehug, and because Malphite lived at top, but on lane I completely dominated her after the first level.

Or, for those who aren't consummate Janna aficionados, there's Riven and Singed and Phoenix Udyr and Tryn, among others. :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

Or, for those who aren't consummate Janna aficionados...

Such people exist? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

[Boowells]

It would make use of Ashe's passive!:smallbiggrin:

Actually, I'd be very interested to see a support Ashe/AD Janna lane.
I think it'd be funny.

[Morph Bark]

Considering Ashe would have plenty of time to charge up her passive while Janna farms (and could then get Janna's shield on her to further increase the power), it could make for a great combo. While in lane, AP Janna might work better (and as support to the rest of the team with her ult, maybe), but AD Janna can work so incredibly well it would be a shame to not utilize it.

Plus you can always just get another champ with a heal somewhere or have either Ashe or Janna get the Heal summoner spell.

Or just get a Gunblade on Janna.

[toasty]

Such people exist? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

I've played Janna 3 times. Twice it was really bad. The second time it was okay, but we still lost.

Sona will forever be my favorite support. And that's not because she's obviously OP. :smalltongue:

[dgnslyr]

Pfft, she's not half as amazing as Blitzcrank support. Grab, punch, and you've either gotten your carry first blood or forced a flash.

[Mirrinus]

All this talk about support Blitzcrank makes me want to impulse purchase him with IP right now. Please, teach me how to Blitz!

[Silverraptor]

All this talk about support Blitzcrank makes me want to impulse purchase him with IP right now. Please, teach me how to Blitz!

Mario and Djinn are pro's at him and can probably elaborate better. But pretty much go 0/9/21 on him and build gold/5 items. After you have philo and HoG, get boots and Glacial shroud. After that, get a sheen for extra damage or some more survivability and always get wards. For abilites, QEWEER with focus on your fist and secondary focus on your overdrive. Ignore grab after level 1.

[Arbitrarity]

Riven seems as strong as ever. The health regen nerf, as I expected, was insignificant (maybe 60 hp over 5 minutes). My levelling order has become disorganized, but I'm getting a lot better at feeling when using Q for damage or mobility is appropriate, so it's getting some levels. In effect, this nerf means my E or W is on couple seconds longer cooldown until higher levels.

[Silverraptor]

Riven seems as strong as ever. The health regen nerf, as I expected, was insignificant (maybe 60 hp over 5 minutes). My levelling order has become disorganized, but I'm getting a lot better at feeling when using Q for damage or mobility is appropriate, so it's getting some levels. In effect, this nerf means my E or W is on couple seconds longer cooldown until higher levels.

Let me know when you perfect Riven again.:smallsmile:

[dgnslyr]

Grab people. Punch them. Set up kills for your carry in the laning phase. Win game. Sometimes you can just Overdrive in and punch them if it's a tricky shot.

For masteries, I run 0/1/29, taking Heal Mastery and pretty much everything in Utility except for weird stuff like spell vamp. For spells, I get CV and Heal, so I can pretend to do the stuff supports usually do while primarily facilitating homicide.

I start with Faerie Charm, three wards, and two health and a mana pot. With the increased gold-at-start mastery, you can afford all this at the get-go.

I would never even consider supporting anybody but a friend talking on a mike like this, because it's really dependent on coordination. For soloqueue, I'd stick with a more conventional pick, like Soraka, Taric, or Sona.

Really, though, Dogmantra's our resident Professional Amateur Blitzcrank Expert Person of Expertise, so I myself want to hear what he has to say.

[OFWGKTA]

As a guy who mains Vayne, support Blitz or Alistair are the bees knees.

I've been thinking about messing around with Support Ashe for the hell of it trying Jungle Ashe for some reason.

[Mirrinus]

Oh, of course, I'd only ever consider playing Blitzcrank in premade teams. I just wanted to branch out from playing Sona, Janna, or MooCow. And Blitz is so different from the usual characters I play that I just wanted to try something new.

What do you do with Blitzcrank if the enemies all start grabbing Banshee's?

EDIT: And this (http://leaguecraft.com/skins/4820-blitzcrank-i-lane-with-stupid-request.xhtml) will be the custom skin I'm using for Blitzcrank.

[Silverraptor]

I take Exhaust/Flash for more utility control.

[sucatraps]

As a Nasus player, I can't say how happy I am that M5 played a really pushy top lane. Sure, my jungler might get less farm, but I will be a god of destruction with all my free farm.

Also, the upcoming week or two full of AD Kennens will also be interesting.

[Shadowleaf]

As a Nasus player, I can't say how happy I am that M5 played a really pushy top lane. Sure, my jungler might get less farm, but I will be a god of destruction with all my free farm.

Also, the upcoming week or two full of AD Kennens will also be interesting.Already had several Shyvanas fail their toplane horribly in the last few hours. There was a Kennen in one game, but he decided against going AD.

It has begun. :smalleek:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

How do wickit schmot guys build Jarvan these days? I heard AD was in vogue, but I've had more success going all-out tanky (with Atmallet) and spending my teamfight time zerging their carry and trapping sensitive people in scary AOE's or with scary team-mates (my old college buddy as Jax is favorite for this).

Aegis, Shurelia's, Force, Wriggles, Merc's, Mallet, Atma's, etc...

Are there other ways of doing it? Also, I usually focus E, then Q, then W. Q and E alternate a bit in lane, but that's normally how it goes.

[Arbitrarity]

Let me know when you perfect Riven again.:smallsmile:

The thing is, she does exactly the same things she used to. Items are the same; Start boots or cloth5, 2 Dorans or Wriggles, depending on how much you need the sustain, Merc/Ionian/Tabi depending on enemy CC (tabi should not be common choice anymore), optional Brutalizer (you want one eventually), Bloodthirster, Guardian Angel. At this point you can either get more damage with Last Whisper (I don't do this often, haven't tried it enough) or Yoummu's (remember the active, it's useful for chasedown, tower killing, and mixing in autoattacks). Alternatively, get more health/defenses. You have about 2k hp, 160 armor (190 if you got Wriggles), 120 MR, so Hexdrinker is pretty decent (beefs up your MR, effectively bonus HP). I've considered Phage/Mallet, but the lack of AD is kinda discouraging. CC is really bad for you, so as usual, QSS is a solid option.

Riven is inherently a snowball champion. She relies heavily on getting strong enough that her opponents know fighting her is a losing proposition. This, in turn, means in lane, you need to get an advantage. The good news is that your laning is generally strong. I prefer to get a rank in each ability by 3, starting with Broken Wings, and then Ki burst against melee, else valor. Be sure to use autoattacks, as the combination of being AD and Runic Blade means they hurt as much as your maxed out abilities. In particular, autoattack after the last hit of Broken Wings, and after using Ki Burst. Even running opponents can't avoid getting hit by those.
You can usually harass melee opponents for free with Broken Wings*3 (to close or just randomly in lane. Obviously hit the last one) Autoattack, Ki Burst, autoattack, Valor away. Often I play more aggressively, and use Valor to extend my engagement range, or to chase.
Lane burst is maximized by (Blade of the Exile) Broken Wings, autoattack, Ki Burst, Autoattack, Broken Wings, autoattack, Broken Wings, autoattack (wind slash). Optionally use Valor to engage, disengage, get an extra autoattack, or catch up. The problem is that you need to be quite close to your opponent to pull this entire thing off.
With good timing, Ki Burst is a very powerful melee counter. When Udyr walks up to tag you with a Tiger punch, Ki Burst slightly outranges it, so you can stun him, then walk away (or dash)

Levelling order is now really reliant on the lane. You need to ask yourself a few questions at each level.
Can you rely on getting more than one hit with Broken Wings? Some lanes, your opponents are scared, or ranged, so you need to close with Broken wings/Valor to attack them. If not, i.e. Udyr or most melee top laners, you should consider levelling Broken Wings for damage, as it has some of the best level scaling in the game (+75 damage over 3 hits). If you can get 3 hits of broken wings out, it means you're going to do more damage than anyone else is capable of.
Are you getting harassed out? Hopefully this is not the case, as losing lane sets Riven back HARD. But if you're facing GP or a mage, and you can't engage on them when they try to poke you, you may end up levelling Valor. This is sad usually, but Valor does let you absorb a ton of poke, and farm up.
How long/frequent are your engagements? If you are getting into sustained 6-8s fights, you should consider levelling Ki burst and Valor for additional sustained defense and damage. Two uses rather than one makes a big difference.

Generally, this means if you're winning the lane, and your opponent is melee, you should level Broken Wings, to maximize your burst (and thereby your ability to trade/force your opponent out)(this is more common than you might think). If you're losing the lane, you probably need ranks in Valor to survive. In any other circumstances, you want some mix of Ki Burst and Valor to win sustained fights and chase down targets. Often I end up raising abilities fairly evenly, i.e. 3 points Broken Wings, 3 points Ki Burst, 2 points Valor (to get equal Valor/Ki burst cooldowns)

In big teamfights, there are some important considerations. While Riven is INCREDIBLY GOOD for starting small fights, given her mobility and CC, she's TERRIBLE at starting large fights. There's this fine line between taking too much and too little focus as Riven, and between using abilities and autoattacking.
Be sure to pop Blade of the Exile whenever you see an engagement that you think people will follow up on. It amplifies everything you do considerably (more AOE, more damage shield, lots more damage), it's on a pretty short cooldown, and it lets you use Wind Slash when it feels right (rather than "oh crap, he's getting away, RRRRRRR why is there 1.25 seconds delay between casting Blade of the Exile then Wind Slash"). You generally want to rush the biggest cluster of enemies you can with Valor, then put as many hits of Broken Wings and Ki Burst into them as possible (you can do 900 AOE damage after armor and before Wind Slash to squishy targets, and you're dashing forwards/stunning them the entire time, so they can't easily escape). Make sure to autoattack for lifesteal, it extends your life considerably (Wriggles/Yoummu's/Bloodthirster Runic Blade autoattack restores around 100 hp against an opponent with moderate armor. Crits return about 180). Learn to Wind Slash, it's a LOT of damage, but the cast delay and conical nature make it difficult to land sometimes.
Be very wary of enemy CC. Getting locked up by Rammus Taunt means suddenly you aren't getting Valor shield, you're not getting lifesteal back, and you aren't stunning half the enemy team. It makes you die CONSIDERABLY faster (this is why GA is good, as it requires they burst you down like this twice, and you almost certainly get Valor shield off) There's a careful balance between disrupting the enemy squishies, and 1v4ing while your team focuses a tank.

Also, spam E and Q when returning to lane or traversing the map. Remember neither of those can go through walls though, at any point.

Oh, I should probably mention runes/masteries. I use Arpen red, armor yellow, MR/level blue, AD quints. Some people prefer AD reds, but Arpen is better mid-late, and is about the same early. HP/level yellows are viable, but aren't as good in early lane. Flat MR blues are an option, but you usually don't need the MR early. I tend to run 21/9/0 for flat AD, crit chance, AS, Arpen. Don't bother with Havoc; the 4% crit chance means you're irregularly bursty, which is a BIG advantage. It means you sometimes get opportunities. In defense, I get flat defenses and regen, or extra HP. HP scales better, and is probably the better pick.
For summoners, I take ghost/flash, and teleport/exhaust/ignite. Recently I've been going flash/ignite, but it depends a bit on the matchup and enemy team composition. Flash is generally more useful, since it's the only way for you to traverse walls, and a lot of your chasing power is speed-independent (dashes are fixed range/speed). Hypothetically, you could use cleanse as a CC reduction, but I suspect that wouldn't be very useful in lane.

When jungling, QWE, usually go wraiths/red/minis/wraiths/wolves/blue. Feel free to donate blue to mid. The CDR helps a bit, but it's not necessary. Also, keep in mind that you have pretty strong early ganks, so you can optionally do stuff like wraiths-red-gank. If you plan on going the full route, you need cloth/5 without a pull. With a pull on red, Doran's Blade or boots/3 are also viable. Level Broken Wings and Ki Burst for clear speed. Broken wings is best, but since you will be using it mostly for the knockback in ganks, it may not be as damaging there. Also, you want a couple AD reds mixed in with the arpen, so you're just at true damage on jungle monsters. 21/9/0, make sure to get minion damage and damage reflection.

[sucatraps]

You know, more and more I've been thinking that first pick isn't as good as last pick.

[Silverraptor]

The thing is, she does exactly the same things she used to. Items are the same; Start boots or cloth5, 2 Dorans or Wriggles, depending on how much you need the sustain, Merc/Ionian/Tabi depending on enemy CC (tabi should not be common choice anymore), optional Brutalizer (you want one eventually), Bloodthirster, Guardian Angel. At this point you can either get more damage with Last Whisper (I don't do this often, haven't tried it enough) or Yoummu's (remember the active, it's useful for chasedown, tower killing, and mixing in autoattacks). Alternatively, get more health/defenses. You have about 2k hp, 160 armor (190 if you got Wriggles), 120 MR, so Hexdrinker is pretty decent (beefs up your MR, effectively bonus HP). I've considered Phage/Mallet, but the lack of AD is kinda discouraging.

Riven is inherently a snowball champion. She relies heavily on getting strong enough that her opponents know fighting her is a losing proposition. This, in turn, means in lane, you need to get an advantage. The good news is that your laning is generally strong. I prefer to get a rank in each ability by 3, starting with Broken Wings, and then Ki burst against melee, else valor. Be sure to use autoattacks, as the combination of being AD and Runic Blade means they hurt as much as your maxed out abilities. In particular, autoattack after the last hit of Broken Wings, and after using Ki Burst. Even running opponents can't avoid getting hit by those.

Levelling order is now really reliant on the lane. You need to ask yourself a few questions at each level.
Can you rely on getting more than one hit with Broken Wings? Some lanes, your opponents are scared, or ranged, so you need to close with Broken wings/Valor to attack them. If not, i.e. Udyr or most melee top laners, you should consider levelling Broken Wings for damage, as it has some of the best level scaling in the game (+75 damage over 3 hits). If you can get 3 hits of broken wings out, it means you're going to do more damage than anyone else is capable of.
Are you getting harassed out? Hopefully this is not the case, as losing lane sets Riven back HARD. But if you're facing GP or a mage, and you can't engage on them when they try to poke you, you may end up levelling Valor. This is sad usually, but Valor does let you absorb a ton of poke, and farm up.
How long/frequent are your engagements? If you are getting into sustained 6-8s fights, you should consider levelling Ki burst and Valor for additional sustained defense and damage. Two uses rather than one makes a big difference.

Generally, this means if you're winning the lane, and your opponent is melee, you should level Broken Wings, to maximize your burst (and thereby your ability to trade/force your opponent out)(this is more common than you might think). If you're losing the lane, you probably need ranks in Valor to survive. In any other circumstances, you want some mix of Ki Burst and Valor to win sustained fights and chase down targets. Often I end up raising abilities fairly evenly, i.e. 3 points Broken Wings, 3 points Ki Burst, 2 points Valor (to get equal Valor/Ki burst cooldowns)

In big teamfights, there are some important considerations. While Riven is INCREDIBLY GOOD for starting small fights, given her mobility and CC, she's TERRIBLE at starting large fights. There's this fine line between taking too much and too little focus as Riven, and between using abilities and autoattacking.
Be sure to pop Blade of the Exile whenever you see an engagement that you think people will follow up on. It amplifies everything you do considerably (more AOE, more damage shield, lots more damage), it's on a pretty short cooldown, and it lets you use Wind Slash when it feels right (rather than "oh crap, he's getting away, RRRRRRR why is there 1.25 seconds delay between casting Blade of the Exile then Wind Slash"). You generally want to rush the biggest cluster of enemies you can with Valor, then put as many hits of Broken Wings and Ki Burst into them as possible (you can do 900 AOE damage after armor and before Wind Slash to squishy targets, and you're dashing forwards/stunning them the entire time, so they can't easily escape). Make sure to autoattack for lifesteal, it extends your life considerably (Wriggles/Yoummu's/Bloodthirster Runic Blade autoattack restores around 100 hp against an opponent with moderate armor. Crits return about 180). Learn to Wind Slash, it's a LOT of damage, but the cast delay and conical nature make it difficult to land sometimes.
Be very wary of enemy CC. Getting locked up by Rammus Taunt means suddenly you aren't getting Valor shield, you're not getting lifesteal back, and you aren't stunning half the enemy team. It makes you die CONSIDERABLY faster (this is why GA is good, as it requires they burst you down like this twice, and you almost certainly get Valor shield off) There's a careful balance between disrupting the enemy squishies, and 1v4ing while your team focuses a tank.

Also, spam E and Q when returning to lane or traversing the map.

I demand this go into the guide list in the OP.

[Mirrinus]

So once again, I wish to ask: what should I be doing as Blitzcrank when almost everyone on the enemy team has Banshee's Veil?

[toasty]

So once again, I wish to ask: what should I be doing as Blitzcrank when almost everyone on the enemy team has Banshee's Veil?

Yell at your mage for not poking enough. :smallbiggrin:

Honestly though, Bveil isn't nearly as good as it used to be. If everyone is building one that's probably a really good thing. Just be more careful about your pulls and, yes, tell your team to pop Bveils.

[Daverin]

Okay, so... what did M5 do? I haven't been keeping up, so all I know is they apparently did something awesome.

[ex cathedra]

M5 played underappreciated champions in a way that made people think that they were universally viable. TSM did really poorly regarding picks and counterplay, and thus everyone now things that Shyvana is totally viable in every role regardless of your lanes and that AD kennen is OP.

Effectively, they took a control jungler, Shyvana, and none of their enemies took advantage of it. They just passively farmed their lanes and didn't abuse of the fact that Shyvana is incapable of ganking by pushing lanes to the tower every wave. Shyvana did nothing but counter jungle and no one punished her for it. Also, they're on an earlier patch where Shyvana can apply red buff via her E.

It was really sad. TSM were just weak, and despite how well TRM did in the early stages of the tournament he let down his team in the finals. Not that Regi or TOO did excruciatingly well, either. They left their buffs unattended for massive amounts of time and they didn't react to counterjungling well. The worst thing is that it wasn't some super clever and powerful strategy employed by M5, it was just one that TSM handled particularly poorly.

At least, that was my impression of the games.

[Shadowleaf]

M5 played underappreciated champions in a way that made people think that they were universally viable. TSM did really poorly regarding picks and counterplay, and thus everyone now things that Shyvana is totally viable in every role regardless of your lanes and that AD kennen is OP.

Effectively, they took a control jungler, Shyvana, and none of their enemies took advantage of it. They just passively farmed their lanes and didn't abuse of the fact that Shyvana is incapable of ganking by pushing lanes to the tower every wave. Shyvana did nothing but counter jungle and no one punished her for it. Also, they're on an earlier patch where Shyvana can apply red buff via her E.

It was really sad. TSM were just weak, and despite how well TRM did in the early stages of the tournament he let down his team in the finals. Not that Regi or TOO did excruciatingly well, either. They left their buffs unattended for massive amounts of time and they didn't react to counterjungling well. The worst thing is that it wasn't some super clever and powerful strategy employed by M5, it was just one that TSM handled particularly poorly.

At least, that was my impression of the games.I really want to disagree with this, but I can't come up with any arguments as to why it isn't true.

TSM really did just get outplayed. I felt like their laning phase went pretty bad because of lack of communication and/or bad leadership. They really dropped the ball on two major things: Bans/picks/counterpicks and dealing with Shyvana. M5 used Shyvana in the first game and that worked out really well for them. TSM should've accepted that Rainman simply couldn't handle the lane versus Shyvana and should've banned Shyvana. Losing Sona also hurt TSM quite a bit.

[tribble]

So once again, I wish to ask: what should I be doing as Blitzcrank when almost everyone on the enemy team has Banshee's Veil?

Have a spell spammer like ezreal or even better: corki. As much as I hate to admit that the guy is useful, tryndamere's mocking shout is blocked by bveil. (I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU HAVE TO PROC THE SLOW TO POP BUBBLES, BUT I KNOW THE SLOW POPS BUBBLES.) This means trynd can pop an entire team of veils with one spell.

That said, if literally the entire team has banshee's veils that's 10875 gold they've been set back (unless someone on the team has unnatural synergy with it and would build it anyway, but that's mostly limited to nunu, blitzcrank himself, and singed, and you will be very unpopular if you grab one of them into the team anyway.).

EDIT: Whoa! the wiki says banshee's veil blocks the vision component of paranoia! I need to verify this!

[Shadowleaf]

Have a spell spammer like ezreal or even better: corki. As much as I hate to admit that the guy is useful, tryndamere's mocking shout is blocked by bveil. (I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU HAVE TO PROC THE SLOW TO POP BUBBLES, BUT I KNOW THE SLOW POPS BUBBLES.) This means trynd can pop an entire team of veils with one spell.

That said, if literally the entire team has banshee's veils that's 10875 gold they've been set back (unless someone on the team has unnatural synergy with it and would build it anyway, but that's mostly limited to nunu, blitzcrank himself, and singed, and you will be very unpopular if you grab one of them into the team anyway.).

EDIT: Whoa! the wiki says banshee's veil blocks the vision component of paranoia! I need to verify this!
Woah, that's so good if it's true.


Also, you forgot Ryze.

[tribble]

Woah, that's so good if it's true.


Also, you forgot Ryze.

Yes, I did.:smallannoyed: That's one you would actually want to grab.

[Arbitrarity]

Yes, BV blocks paranoia vision loss. It also prevents you from being revealed by Destiny, last time I checked.

[Shadowleaf]

Yes, I did.:smallannoyed: That's one you would actually want to grab.Not sure you'd want to grab Ryze if he goes for the standard tanky Ryze build. Frozen Heart/BVeil/RoA plus spellvamp makes him fairly durable. I'd almost always go for the AD carry/assassins if possible.

[Dante & Vergil]

So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

[Math_Mage]

What made M5's game great was, they successfully integrated their laners into the chess game of counterjungling. For example, whereas most players, even pro teams, just go "Oh, mid's going to get blue, that's annoying," M5 actively played for the objective by crippling the enemy mid's ability to get blue with well-timed harass. It's the sort of thing that skilled players routinely do for dragon, but give M5 some credit for taking objective-based play to another level. It's not just that TSM is too rigid to handle unconventional jungle control strats; M5 has been beating everyone this way. TSM only got one match off them because of a ridiculously fortuitous level 1 fight, and nobody else took even 1 match from them.


Yes, BV blocks paranoia vision loss. It also prevents you from being revealed by Destiny, last time I checked.

This is still the case.


Have a spell spammer like ezreal or even better: corki. As much as I hate to admit that the guy is useful, tryndamere's mocking shout is blocked by bveil. (I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU HAVE TO PROC THE SLOW TO POP BUBBLES, BUT I KNOW THE SLOW POPS BUBBLES.) This means trynd can pop an entire team of veils with one spell.

You pop bubbles regardless of whether they're facing towards or away from you.


So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

I play it for FWotD on the occasion that I need to. That said, I think there's some broken circuit in my brain that prevents me from playing to be wacky (as opposed to playing in SUPER SRS TRYHARD WIN MODE), and I'm sure there's lots of messing around you can do in bot games.

[sucatraps]

Myself and probably the majority of people I play with can be coerced into the occasional Co-Op. We always troll the heck out of it, but it can be quite fun.

[Shadowleaf]

So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?
My friends actually mock me quite a bit for doing so, but I play Co-op vs. AI quite a bit. It's not something I'd actively encourage unless you are a new player, but I think it does its job well enough if you want to try out a new champion, a new jungle route or a new item build. It doesn't give you the same "quality" of data as a normal game would do, but I dislike not doing anything but my very best when playing a serious game (even if it "just" a normal game). It is, however, enough to give you the feel of a champion's playstyle or whether or not a wacky itembuild would be viable.

My main problem with it is the co-op vs AI tend to be extremely short (15-25 minutes) seeing as there's always at least one player taking their strongest champion, teleport/ignite, snowball items and raking up 30+ kills and just ending the game.

It's also a halfway decent way to "warm up" if you're feeling a bit rusty. I usually do Dominion instead, though.

My friends and I also have a tendency to troll bot games just for laughs, such as queueing 4 people, randoming champions going 6 Warmog's and not being 'allowed' to attack towers. If the last person gets annoyed though, we take a bit more seriously and end the game.

[Croverus]

So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

I use it to test silly builds, like jungling anyone, running ad mages, playing a champ with no items until I hit 18 (the last one is afun self-imposed challenge). Building one item over and over is pretty funny.

[ex cathedra]

It's not just that TSM is too rigid to handle unconventional jungle control strats; M5 has been beating everyone this way. TSM only got one match off them because of a ridiculously fortuitous level 1 fight, and nobody else took even 1 match from them.

Actually, Saint chimed in that CLG.eu didn't have a problem with that strategy in their scrims with M5, but I haven't seen the scrims.

[Reynard]

So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

I use cheaty bot games for two things:

Testing a champion I haven't played before. Seeing how they scale, what items compliment them, etc.

Being a derp, and building Zerkers, 4 warmogs and an atmas impaler on whoever I got randomlocked, or BoM+5 PD Singed/Garen/Udyr.

[TechnOkami]

...so, apparently I can play Brand.

How do I know you say?

Well, when a Master Yi and a Singed come to gank me, and I lay waste to them with everything I have, as well as ignite, and come out with just a sliver of my health left.... :smallbiggrin:

Man I felt like a boss.

[Dogmantra]

All this talk about support Blitzcrank makes me want to impulse purchase him with IP right now. Please, teach me how to Blitz!
He's too good. Don't play him or he'll get nerfed :(


Grab people. Punch them. Set up kills for your carry in the laning phase. Win game. Sometimes you can just Overdrive in and punch them if it's a tricky shot.

For masteries, I run 0/1/29, taking Heal Mastery and pretty much everything in Utility except for weird stuff like spell vamp. For spells, I get CV and Heal, so I can pretend to do the stuff supports usually do while primarily facilitating homicide.

I start with Faerie Charm, three wards, and two health and a mana pot. With the increased gold-at-start mastery, you can afford all this at the get-go.

I would never even consider supporting anybody but a friend talking on a mike like this, because it's really dependent on coordination. For soloqueue, I'd stick with a more conventional pick, like Soraka, Taric, or Sona.

Really, though, Dogmantra's our resident Professional Amateur Blitzcrank Expert Person of Expertise, so I myself want to hear what he has to say.
I would make sure to pick up 21 in Offense because he has too much damage. And I would make sure to pick up at least Flash (if not Flash/Ignite) because Flashpunches are bitchin' (can you still do Flashpulls? If so then you neeeeed Flash). Also I would start Doran's Ring or Boots.

Also this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115).


What do you do with Blitzcrank if the enemies all start grabbing Banshee's?
You laugh because BVeils are so freaking easy to pop.


You know, more and more I've been thinking that first pick isn't as good as last pick.
I've been thinking this for a while, and while I think first pick has a lot of power in games where both teams aren't blindly following the meta (like if you were to pick Caitlyn for her to go mid or something, denying a strong bot and getting a slightly unusual yet viable mid), last pick is just soooo good.


Yes, BV blocks paranoia vision loss. It also prevents you from being revealed by Destiny, last time I checked.
Shortly after Caitlyn came out, I was playing her with Wojo as TF. I wanted to ult someone, but their BVeil came up. I cursed my bad luck, then suddenly it disappeared.

Wojo had Destinied to remove the BVeil, letting me snipe 'em.

[PersonMan]

You know, more and more I've been thinking that first pick isn't as good as last pick.

I hate first pick, but since my as-of-yet-unknown ELO is apparently higher tha my duo-qeue friend's is, I always get it. I dislike being the one to ban. IMO, last pick is the best because you can counterpick almost anyone on the enemy team (say, take Galio for a mage-heavy one).

[Dogmantra]

(say, take Galio for a mage-heavy one).
Or Veigar to counter Galio 8)

(actually, discounting MPen, 100 extra MR will only give Veigar 20 more damage on his ult, SO WORTH IT GUYS)


First pick is only really worth it when you're not 5 queueing, so you can ban Irelia.

[Eldariel]

How do wickit schmot guys build Jarvan these days? I heard AD was in vogue, but I've had more success going all-out tanky (with Atmallet) and spending my teamfight time zerging their carry and trapping sensitive people in scary AOE's or with scary team-mates (my old college buddy as Jax is favorite for this).

Aegis, Shurelia's, Force, Wriggles, Merc's, Mallet, Atma's, etc...

Are there other ways of doing it? Also, I usually focus E, then Q, then W. Q and E alternate a bit in lane, but that's normally how it goes.

I go Wriggle's into Atmog's or Atmallet still, with Tabi or Mercs. Then Trinity/LW/FoN/QSS/Banshee/whateverthehell. I focus Q first almost invariably to reduce the cooldown, though I take first point in E and I only jungle him currently.


So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

I've played enough Co-op vs. AI to lose in it once. I was playing Hybrid Jungle Janna and the team decided to get trounced by bots somehow. Mostly used it for FWotD when I only have time for 1 game.

[Morph Bark]

Already had several Shyvanas fail their toplane horribly in the last few hours. There was a Kennen in one game, but he decided against going AD.

It has begun. :smalleek:

Only seen one Kennen so far, who went AP bot together with a Teemo (premade) and harassed their jungler at the start. This gave me a little more time to counterjungle as Shyvana, going Wolves -> their Wraiths -> their Golems, by the time Gangplank arrived at Red. Sadly, my Smite wasn't off cooldown yet so I could not steal the buff directly, but Xerath came from mid to help me gank him. He actually got away just before Xerath got there, but Xerath hit him with his lightning over a wall near the second turret in toplane (we were Blue Team). Gangplank then turned around at 25% and graciously let us kill him.

I proceeded immediately to gank Yorick in toplane, which made our Garen happy. :smallbiggrin:

Ended the game 3/2/4, which is much better than usual for my jungling. One of my deaths was because their entire team came into the jungle to gank me, which also gave my team enough time to take a turret and push the other lanes.


So I thought I'd ask the Playgrounders here if anybody here plays Co-op vs. Ai just to have fun and/or mess around?

I do it if there aren't any of my friends online or on Skype that I could play with. I usually do it jungling, since I want to get better at it and try out various routes with various champs. But if I see more than one person take teleport, I find it hard to resist taking teleport myself and going all-snowball items.

Katarina with Mejai's, SotO, Sorc's, Derpcap, Gunblade and The Bloodthirster. Or Leviatma's.

[XiaoTie]

I was wondering, how about we make a small friendly league with ourselves?

Not exactly HIGH-LEVELSRSBSNSCOMPETITIVEGAME, just you know, for fun :thog:

What do you guys think?

[sucatraps]

You are not the first to suggest an inhouse tourny, nor will you be the last. A primary problem arises, however, because we very definitely have three or so tiers of player skill among the Mumblers, and getting balanced enough teams (while still having people with people they play with regularly) to avoid every game being a stomp one way or the other becomes a nearly insurmountable challenge. For example, if I just want to play a game for fun, I might pick such people as aethernox, Ryomasa, EternalMelon and TechnOkami, to name a few. However, this would likely result in us getting royally stomped by Dogmantra, Alterform and co.

[Talesin]

You are not the first to suggest an inhouse tourny, nor will you be the last. A primary problem arises, however, because we very definitely have three or so tiers of player skill among the Mumblers, and getting balanced enough teams (while still having people with people they play with regularly) to avoid every game being a stomp one way or the other becomes a nearly insurmountable challenge. For example, if I just want to play a game for fun, I might pick such people as aethernox, Ryomasa, EternalMelon and TechnOkami, to name a few. However, this would likely result in us getting royally stomped by Dogmantra, Alterform and co.

What sort of skill level are people playing at? Though I guess that's a hard question unless we relate to ELOs but even then they're highly irregular. Having been at 1460 myself after winning 14 and losing 6 of my last 20 games. However i've just lost 9 of the past 10, dropping me below 1300.

The losing games doesn't both me as much as the rage you get when things go wrong. I'd say overall its coming close to ruining LoL for me. That and everyone's idea of sticking to the meta at all costs when some people can't/don't want to play support and therefore play it badly due to not enjoying it

[Jheska]

I'd love to join in but I fear my mere level 21 would mean I'd just hold back team mates. I think I'm doing alright for myself and have learned what most champions do and how they should be fought (save some of the really obscure ones people simply aren't playing yet), but I fear that I simply dont have the experience to play at high levels just yet.

Currently reasonably well practiced in the following heroes:
Solo Top: Riven, Nasus
Mid: Karthus
Support: Alistar, Jana, Kayle (who's kit ends up not that great on support)

Should probably acquire and learn a decent jungler if anyone has any suggestions as to who might be good for me.

Oh, and thank you for the awesome advice on Riven last page :smallsmile: Been pretty stompy with her lately thanks to how well she snowballs mid game, but always room to improve.

[Talesin]

Should probably acquire and learn a decent jungler if anyone has any suggestions as to who might be good for me.


Well you mention being good on Riven and I believe in the Riven post above there is mention of Riven being able to jungle. So that seems like a good starting point, so rather than learning a new character and hwo to jungle, you're just learning how to jungle.

Though saying that, having played Lee Sin, playing a good jungler compared to playing one who is average does make a fair difference. Lee Sin's jungle clear, in my opinion, is just insanely easy. Skarner came in for a counter jungle and, this being my first competitive match as Lee Sin, I beat him to a pulp only for his midlane to come assist him and get the kill on me.

Was bad play on my part but I would say good Lee Sin players would've destroyed that Skarner.

[XiaoTie]

Like I said, it doesn't have to be "srs bsns we practice everyday!". And as far as the levels go, just make it so that groups have equal numbers of 25~30, 10~17 and 18~25. Just playing to have fun.

Make it happen Playground/Djinn/Someoneelse

[Eldariel]

What sort of skill level are people playing at? Though I guess that's a hard question unless we relate to ELOs but even then they're highly irregular. Having been at 1460 myself after winning 14 and losing 6 of my last 20 games. However i've just lost 9 of the past 10, dropping me below 1300.

Elo tends to standardize itself after hundreds of games in a game of this type. It's pretty hard to infer your elo with a small sample size.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Like I said, it doesn't have to be "srs bsns we practice everyday!". And as far as the levels go, just make it so that groups have equal numbers of 25~30, 10~17 and 18~25. Just playing to have fun.

Make it happen Playground/Djinn/Someoneelse

Problem isn't the level gap, so much as the skill disparity. We can't balance a team of level 30s, let alone a team with a wider level range. Technical skill, teamwork, map awareness, amount of champions and/or roles (so bans don't make someone basically useless, and/or teams don't end up with a player in a role they can't play), who likes playing with who...even a casual league would basically be impossible to maintain.

About the only balanced thing I can think of would be Myself + 9mm/Mario vs Alterform or Arbitrary + their support of choice. I think that may be as close to balanced as we can get...and that's only a single lane.

I know Dragonus wanted to do a small in-house tourney though, because he wanted to (along with me) commentate it. I'm still up for that, but I know I'd bow out of a GitP tourney if I had to play in it...in my experience, our in-houses usually end in tears.

[Arbitrarity]

I'd love to join in but I fear my mere level 21 would mean I'd just hold back team mates. I think I'm doing alright for myself and have learned what most champions do and how they should be fought (save some of the really obscure ones people simply aren't playing yet), but I fear that I simply dont have the experience to play at high levels just yet.

Currently reasonably well practiced in the following heroes:
Solo Top: Riven, Nasus
Mid: Karthus
Support: Alistar, Jana, Kayle (who's kit ends up not that great on support)

Should probably acquire and learn a decent jungler if anyone has any suggestions as to who might be good for me.

Oh, and thank you for the awesome advice on Riven last page :smallsmile: Been pretty stompy with her lately thanks to how well she snowballs mid game, but always room to improve.

Riven has a viable jungle, but she's not the best dedicated jungler. I'd recommend Lee, Skatner, Udyr, maybe Gangplank, and Nocturne. Rammus and Amumu are also solid choices.

Of those... I like Lee's playstyle, sine he's super-mobile. The others are good picks, but you kinda need to figure out if you like how they play. Amumu is low-cost and strong.
Edit: Lyxie banned me from in houses months ago :/. There was a good reason for that. Team balance is hard.

[Volatar]

What sort of skill level are people playing at?

As he said, there are three general skill levels we are looking at in our community.

1) The newer players who are still learning the game.
2) Those who have a firm grasp of the game but still only play for fun
3) Those who are actually quite good. We have many S1 gold and silver players, and at least one or two platinum. These guys are leagues ahead of everyone else.

[Penguinizer]

Honestly, from what I've experienced in solo que (I know it doesn't mean much) silver league doesn't mean much. Anyways, most people are willing to give tips and aren't all that tryhard.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Honestly, from what I've experienced in solo que (I know it doesn't mean much) silver league doesn't mean much. Anyways, most people are willing to give tips and aren't all that tryhard.

Leagues start to mean something when someone has accumulated a lot of ranked games to properly get an ELO estimate. That said, you can hit Silver and even Gold fairly quickly if you're lucky: I know I beat some Gold players into the ground, but I ended Bronze after a string of bad games (and have only played about 20 ranked games total). Does this mean I should be Gold? I have no idea, and wouldn't presume to guess. But it does mean that the ELO system has significant problems until a large enough sample size has been reached.

[Math_Mage]

I'm currently playing silver, and only got gold at the end of last season off a lucky streak. But I'll still take a 1200 player to the cleaners 4 out of 5, at least. Does that mean I'll win 4 out of 5 games at 1200? No, because there's 8 more players to deal with. But 3 of 5? Certainly.

Also, Eld and efdf and possibly Laudandus have their own tier. Unless I'm forgetting someone.

[Arbitrarity]

Went to a Riot info session for internships. It was interesting, though I got the impression they don't have much coordinated direction. While interesting (in that you have some freedom of process, and work independently) it's also a bit concerning (not much in the way of direction, inconsistent use of tools/workflow)

[Mirrinus]

Thanks for the Blitzcrank tips. I've got another question: how would you build him in Dominion?

[TechnOkami]

What sort of skill level are people playing at?

Well, considering that I present myself as the Demon Lord of Elo Hell... :smallwink:

Though to be honest, I haven't the slightest clue what my Elo is, nor do I honestly really care. I play to have fun, and enjoy a very select few champions due to the very rare convergence of good fluff to good champion design to look to everything to I can wreck face as them and not have to think about it (Skarner, Malzahar, Maokai, Brand).

[Dogmantra]

Thanks for the Blitzcrank tips. I've got another question: how would you build him in Dominion?

The same except with Sheen bits + boots to start

[tribble]

Not sure you'd want to grab Ryze if he goes for the standard tanky Ryze build. Frozen Heart/BVeil/RoA plus spellvamp makes him fairly durable. I'd almost always go for the AD carry/assassins if possible.

I don't think that build is gonna make him tanky enough to survive getting yanked into an entire team and immidiately knocked up, though. There are very few people who can handle that. Frankly I dunno if even blitzcrank can. If he's fed/overfarmed, singed might. Of course I'd -rather- grab an assasin or a carry, or even better that ^@%# soraka, but eliminating ryze before the fight begins is something I will never complain about.

[Dogmantra]

I don't think that build is gonna make him tanky enough to survive getting yanked into an entire team and immidiately knocked up, though. There are very few people who can handle that. Frankly I dunno if even blitzcrank can. If he's fed/overfarmed, singed might. Of course I'd -rather- grab an assasin or a carry, or even better that ^@%# soraka, but eliminating ryze before the fight begins is something I will never complain about.

Grab Galio.

Save him a Flash.

[PersonMan]

Grab Galio.

Save him a Flash.

Although, to be honest, Galio with Flash in mid to late game is basically 'are you in a crowd? Is my stuff off CD? Is my team ready? If the answers to there are 'yes', you lose.' in most situations.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I'm willing to play (with or without my team) in this "tourney" should it ever take place. PM me if things happen.