3.5 D&D, how would you rank the spell schools?

[krossbow]

As the topic says, just thought this would be an interesting discussion.


How would you rate the power of the different spell schools in 3.5 D&D? And i don't mean a lump sum rating-- I mean as the game goes along.


Do you think the rankings are the same at lower levels as mid levels/ high levels, ect.? Is one school in your mind good at low levels but dies at high levels?

[TurtleKing]

So as to get this out of the way Conjuration starts out as the best at low levels with Transmutation in second. Mid levels see them neck and neck. High levels Transmutation pulls out to be best while Conjuration drops to either second or third.

[Manateee]

I'm sure someone else is going to address Conj and Trans, and I'm probably going to be typing for a while, so I'll just give my take on the other things:

Illusion starts solid with its images, becomes amazing with its midlevel buffs and shadow conj/evo spells, then kind of peters out as things develop their various immunities.

Necromancy starts strong with its rays, stays consistent through the midlevels with its rays and mass debuffs. It continues to get more powerful effects, but Death Ward and other immunities crop up frequently enough that high levels turn rough.

Abjurations start decent with some dull but reliable buff spells. Then at mid levels, they start to gain tools to exert uttercontrol over battles, like Dispel, Anticipate and Dimension Anchor. At high levels, Dispels become some of the most devastating debuffs around, and Abjuration turns into one of the hardest-hitting cannons the wizard has.

Evocation starts lackluster and pretty much stays that way. It's kind of workable in the early-mid levels when it gets some relevant multithreat spells, but once everyone has freedom of movement, a couple resistances and teleportation, it pretty much flops.

Divination starts pretty useless, but it gets a couple offensive options and a couple powerful bits of utility like clairvoyance/clairaudience through the early mid-levels. At level 9, when it gets Prying Eyes and Contact Other Plane, it really starts to come into its own. Suddenly a couple spell slots can basically replace the party scout. And at level 11, it gets True Seeing, which negates a bunch of scary illusions and which provides invaluable info on other magic that might be in place. From there, it gets a few increases in versatility, but it basically stays the same as a solid but not overwhelming school.

I actually don't know how Enchantment handles at the lowest levels, because Low-level enchantment basically means "Charm Person" and the actual effects of CP are actually kind of vague. I've seen it used as an encounter-autoender and as just one wasted round for one humanoid mook. In the Early mid-levels, when things like Ray of Stupidity and Suggestion come online, Enchantment is actually pretty powerful when it works. It just doesn't always work, and there's no good way to break through monsters' type-based immunities. It's not totally binary, because you can entice thralls and have them smack around the sorts of monsters that are immune to Enchantment, but it's unreliable and indirect in those circumstances. Once you start heading around level 12+, Polymorphs aren't uncommon and Mind Blanks start cropping up on the monsters that aren't immediately immune. It's still a hugely powerful effect when it lands, but it just doesn't land often.

[imneuromancer]

Since the top two are obvious, I would like to suggest the worst, IMHO:

Evocation and Enchantment.

Evocation spells just don't keep up with monster hit points per CL in 3.5. Plus, with the various books, other schools (conjuration, illusion) have pretty much replicated all of the good spells and damage of evocation, if you need it.

Enchantments either don't work on most of the baddies (constructs, undead, elementals, etc.) or are all based on a will save, so are very situational.

For my money, these are the two schools to drop if you are going to go specialist wizard.

[Tyndmyr]

Necromancy is also on my "frequently banned" list. It has a strong correlation with evil in many settings in addition to being frankly just a weak school.

[Callista]

I may have an unpopular opinion here, but I'm convinced that Divination is the strongest school. Only a few Divinations are useful in combat; but when it comes to preparation and information-gathering, Divination spells are what you need. Preparing for something thoroughly is more powerful than simply being able to react to it when it happens. Though, of course, this does assume that one has access to a decent variety of other spells and abilities, either personally or from party members.

[Coidzor]

Conjuration/Transmutation

significant drop in rank

Illusion with creativity and a DM who isn't actively hostile

less significant drop in rank

Necromancy, Abjuration, and Divination hovering around here

moderate drop in rank

Illusion without creativity or a hostile DM

minor drop in rank

Enchantment

minor drop in rank

Illusion without creativity and a hostile DM

minor drop in rank

Evocation

[Chronos]

The absolute most essential school, the one that makes wizards so dominant, is divination. Everything else is just details: A wizard without Conjuration, say, or Transmutation, will be missing a bunch of neat tricks, but he'll still have plenty others to choose from. Divination, though, is what lets you make sure that, at any given time, the tricks you have are the right ones for the job.

[sreservoir]

Conjuration/Transmutation

significant drop

Illusion with creativity and a DM who isn't actively hostile

less significant drop

Necromancy, Abjuration, and Divination hovering around here

drop

Illusion without creativity or a hostile DM

drop

Enchantment

drop

Illusion without creativity and a hostile DM

Evocation

illusion is still worth not dropping if you drop evocation and can't CCS, even without creativity and with a hostile DM.

[Flickerdart]

1. Conjuration.
WotC likes to pretend that spellcasters are limited by being squishy, so summon up a bunch of minions to protect yourself, or whisk away to safety in the blink of an eye with teleports. Want to cast a spell that you don't have? Summon a monster that has it as an SLA. Want to break WBL? There's a Wall for that. Even at early levels, Conjuration is a champ with Grease and Web, throwing its hat into the battlefield control ring - and the hat in question is one of those helmets that has a gun attached.

2. Transmutation.
This is where WotC has piled most spells just because they couldn't figure out where else to slot them. Rope Trick, a Batman staple, is an early pick, as is Alter Self. Enlarge Person is a fantastic early-game buff. This school is also by far the easiest way to get flight. At later levels, SoDs edge into your school, as well as Telekinesis, more amazing buffs (Polymorph, anyone?) and eventually Time Stop.

3. Illusion.
Illusion's strength depends entirely on the user, but it doesn't take a game of twenty questions to make spells from this school useful. Color Spray is a powerful starter, Mirror Image and Blur are staple buffs, and the Image line lets you do pretty much whatever. Shadow spells give you incredible versatility, and at least one of these is a good idea for both Wizards and Sorcerers. The reason it isn't king of the roost is that True Seeing spoils your fun, but the school bounces back with Simulacrum.

4. Divination.
On its own, Divination is pathetic, having exactly one useful offensive spell, but even a wizard who has banned Transmutation and Conjuration can get ahead in the world using spells his Divinations told him to pick. This school is made much stronger at level 5 (spontaneously cast any Divination I know? I'd love to) and ends strong with Moment of Prescience and Foresight.

5. Abjuration.
After Divination, Abjuration is a humble school, and the first one that is usually safe to drop, provided your party has a cleric. In addition to its potent defensive buffs, Dispel Magic and Explosive Runes appear as low-level favourites, and Outsiders become your plaything with Dimensional Anchor, Banishment, Dismissal and Dimensional Lock. Spell Turning is always hilarious, and Mind Blank is powerful as always. At later levels, Prismatic Wall and Disjunction are powerful tools, and Imprisonment is alright, but in a world of rocket tag, the man with only a shield can't win.

6. Necromancy.
Clerics do it better, but you're good for something too. The earliest source of ability damage, Necromancy also swings Bestow Curse, Enervation and Magic Jar for some fun shenanigans. At later levels, Astral Projection will make your wizard happy, but a Conjurer can just bind a Nightmare to do it for them. Death Ward will make you cry, so always be ready to Disjoin or Dispel your enemies.

7. Evocation.
Evocation has a bad rap. While Conjuration is plain better, Magic Missile and Scorching Ray scale a lot better than Lesser Orbs, making you a threatening damage dealer at low levels with a bit of CL boosting. Wind Wall is among Evocation's only defensive spells, but what a spell it is! Resilient Sphere is nice if they fail their save. Evocation is probably one of the better balanced schools, and deserves some credit for that. After Wall of Force, Forcecage and Contingency, though, the schools usefulness tapers off, so have a plan.

8. Enchantment.
Why is a powerful school like Enchantment rated last? Because so much stuff in the game is immune to everything in it by default. At the beginning, Sleep is strong, and Suggestion is a classic (though it does require a reasonable command, which is often overlooked). Geas is nice, but most of your later spells are X, Mass. There's a brief jump in awesomeness with Binding and Irresistible Dance, but aside from that, you don't get very much from this school, and by the late game, Mind Blanks on everybody render you moot.


The absolute most essential school, the one that makes wizards so dominant, is divination. Everything else is just details: A wizard without Conjuration, say, or Transmutation, will be missing a bunch of neat tricks, but he'll still have plenty others to choose from. Divination, though, is what lets you make sure that, at any given time, the tricks you have are the right ones for the job.
Conjuration/Transmutation spells are often powerful and versatile enough that they are the right tool for the job regardless of the job. It is quite possible to play a wizard that never casts a divination in his life, and can adapt on the fly - but it downgrades him from a force of nature to a reasonable, if potent, adversary.

[Tyndmyr]

The absolute most essential school, the one that makes wizards so dominant, is divination. Everything else is just details: A wizard without Conjuration, say, or Transmutation, will be missing a bunch of neat tricks, but he'll still have plenty others to choose from. Divination, though, is what lets you make sure that, at any given time, the tricks you have are the right ones for the job.

Nah. Divination is dumpable. I prefer the option of having less information available but more tricks. LOTS more tricks. That said, scry/nightmare is pretty awesome.

[krossbow]

The thing that always got me about Enchantment is it seems like it should have had alot of the spells that are basically what Psionics has, given that both are about affecting the mind of others.

Not to mention i never could understand why ghosts or incorporeal undead were immune to mental affects; it seems like mental/psychic type affects always interacted with them in movies.

[sreservoir]

The thing that always got me about Enchantment is it seems like it should have had alot of the spells that are basically what Psionics has, given that both are about affecting the mind of others.

Not to mention i never could understand why ghosts or incorporeal undead were immune to mental affects; it seems like mental/psychic type affects always interacted with them in movies.

the telepathy powers, perhaps. most psionic powers decidedly do not affect others' minds.

[Hiro Protagonest]

1. Conjuration: I have a minion for that, plus a lot of battlefield control and some good blasting.
2. Transmutation: I have a form for that.
3. Evocation: Despite all the flak, it's actually pretty good. Nearly everything allows SR, but Wall of Force is excellent if the enemy doesn't have a way to teleport (even Disintegrate takes up a standard action), plus it can do as a short-term bridge if you're out of Wall of Stone. Plus the Time Stop + Delayed Blast Fireball trick.
4. Illusion: Why yes, there is a dragon the size of a castle coming at you.
5. Divination: The difference between reactive and proactive.
6. Abjuration: Quite a few nice things.
7. Necromancy: Ahm firing mah lazer, drainin' ur strength. Ahm pokin' the monster, drainin' his dexterity. Ahm in ur graveyards, raisin' ur dead.
8. Enchantment: What do you mean, the lich is immune?

[GoatBoy]

Divination would probably be less useful in a more story-based campaign, where the DM has accounted for it. Perhaps they even expect it, in which case it becomes akin to Track, ie. a plot hook disguised as a character ability.

In a kick-down-the-door game, where the DM is going to destroy you unless you can and do use every option available to you, divination becomes much stronger. I'd risk saying that a Necromancer or Enchanter with the advance knowledge of an encounter which divination spells provide rivals the power of a Transmuter or Conjurer without.

I'd give enchantment a little more credit than necromancy at high levels, since enchantment at least has a few party buffs, if I'm not mistaken.

[Flickerdart]

I'd give enchantment a little more credit than necromancy at high levels, since enchantment at least has a few party buffs, if I'm not mistaken.
A party that isn't immune to Mind-Affecting is more a weakness than an asset at the level Dominate becomes easily available.

[GoatBoy]

A party that isn't immune to Mind-Affecting is more a weakness than an asset at the level Dominate becomes easily available.

Ah, fair enough. I have little experience in such "the DM goal is to destroy you" type games, so I don't have such a cutthroat way of thinking.

[Coidzor]

The problem is things like defenses that are binary and effects that are pretty much binary themselves...

If you don't have deathward or an equivalent, energy drain cuts through your party like a hot knife through butter.

If you don't have immunity to mind-affecting, then the Barbarian and Rogue are trying to carve open the Cleric and Wizard.

[krossbow]

The problem is things like defenses that are binary and effects that are pretty much binary themselves...

If you don't have deathward or an equivalent, energy drain cuts through your party like a hot knife through butter.

If you don't have immunity to mind-affecting, then the Barbarian and Rogue are trying to carve open the Cleric and Wizard.



This really is a bit of a problem with high level 3.5.

True sight or murdered by invisible rogues-- use invisibility with truesight up, its useless. Mind blank or dominated. Bring along protection or necromancy will burn you up. Ect.


Alot of the spells are only resistable with other spells, which are incredibly powerful against THOSE spells singularly. Which is why the no-counter spells like gate are probably so good.

[Flickerdart]

True sight or murdered by invisible rogues-- use invisibility with truesight up, its useless. Mind blank or dominated. Bring along protection or necromancy will burn you up. Ect.
That's why the Rogues should be packing wands of Invisible Fog Cloud, which they use before attacking. If you can see through their invisibility, then you can't see through the fog, and so can't see them anyway.