Duskblade/Swiftblade

[DoughGuy]

So a while back I asked the playground for help getting a duskblade into the swiftblade prestige class. However the build got forgotten and I only recently found it again. Now back then it was agreed Arcane Disciple (time) was the best way to get haste onto the duskblade's spell list. However this only allows haste to be cast once per day which doesn't really make sense when one of your classes focuses on being under the effect of that once spell. So once again playground I turn to you to ask how can you get haste onto the duskblade's spell list in a way that allows it to be cast multiple time per day.

[MeeposFire]

Well if it is persisted then that is all you need...

There is a draconic wizard prc from dragon magic which can put haste on your list. It will require that arcane preparation feat though.

[gkathellar]

Contemplative 1 can do it and is easy to qualify for, though you can't nab Contemplative until 11th level. Your build would be Duskblade 10/Contemplative 1/Swiftblade 9.

If you were really desperate to get Swiftblade as soon as possible, you could take Arcane Disciple and Contemplative, and go Duskblade 9/Swiftblade 1/Contemplative 1/Swiftblade 2-9/Duskblade 1. I'd recommend PrC-ing further to get rid of Duskblade levels after 4th.

Of course, Versatile Spellcaster shenanigans could get you in earlier and without Contemplative, but that's shenanigans.

[Elric VIII]

Why doesn't the feat Extra Spell work again?


...Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research.

I mean it's basically Expanded Knowledge for spells, right?


If you take Versatile Spellcaster and a Bloodline feat you can get the ability to cast 4th level spells right at level 9 (thus qualifying you to take Haste from Extra Spell).

[Canine]

The FAQ says that Extra Spell only lets you learn an extra spell that is already available for your class. Unfortunately, I can't provide a link right now, but it ends up being frequently debated so ask your DM if he wants to allow it.

[gkathellar]

The chief problem is that Extra Spell is debatable and not widely accepted.

In any case, the best way to use Versatile Spellcaster for Swiftblade qualification is to get it as a known spell on a list that has haste as a 3rd-level spell (a level of Wizard or Beguiler or the Magical Training feat are good ways to do this), and use your 2nd-level slots with Versatile Spellcaster to get access to haste. That way, you can enter with as little as 5 Duskblade levels.

But that is, as I said, shenanigans.

[Big Fau]

So a while back I asked the playground for help getting a duskblade into the swiftblade prestige class. However the build got forgotten and I only recently found it again. Now back then it was agreed Arcane Disciple (time) was the best way to get haste onto the duskblade's spell list. However this only allows haste to be cast once per day which doesn't really make sense when one of your classes focuses on being under the effect of that once spell. So once again playground I turn to you to ask how can you get haste onto the duskblade's spell list in a way that allows it to be cast multiple time per day.

Take a look at when you get 3rd level spells. Not exactly fast entry into the Swiftblade. You really need to get your DM to allow Extra Spell to work so you can get Haste off of the Trapsmith's spell list.


Why they didn't put Swift Haste on the Duskblade's spell list is beyond me. Hell, that class should have a number of spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Duskblade 6/ Suel Arcanamach 4/ Swiftblade 10?
Duskblade 4/ Wizard 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Swiftblade 9?
I'd consider both of those to be better off than something like Duskblade 9/ Swiftblade 10/ Duskblade 1

Edit: I just remembered, since Duskblade spontaneously casts spells, you can get the feat Magical Training (PGtF) to get a spellbook and the ability to learn Wizard spells and scribe them into it. You may not have any Wizard spell slots with which to cast those, but if you also take the feat Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) you can spend two spontaneous spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, thus you could go Duskblade 5/ Swiftblade, considering you've spent zero of your zero 3rd level spell slots to cast Haste it should fit the special prerequisite. Also note that this gives you access to the entire wizard spell list as long as you can find a given spell to copy and make the Spellcraft check to learn it. I'd make the character have to flip through his book and read the spell as he casts it this way, which ends up being a bit counterproductive on action economy. Maybe if you nail those 3 pages to the inside of your shield it could work out. This is probably the best solution if you want to stick to just Duskblade.

[Chronos]

I think that one of the Bloodline feats also adds Haste to your spells known.

[Elric VIII]

I think that one of the Bloodline feats also adds Haste to your spells known.

I checked the Dragon Magazine ones and it does not appear.

Although by strict RAW, you can get Magical Training and Versatile Spellcaster to take Swiftblade at 4th level. You can scribe the Trapsmith Haste into your spellbook (incidentally, a Wizard can scribe any spell into his spellbook, he just can't prepare them).

At level 3 you have (assuming Human or flaws):
- Magical Training, Versatile Spellcaster, Dodge, Mobility as feats.
- BAB +3.
- skill cap 6.
- The ability to cast Haste (by using 2 0-level spells)
- You satisfy the requirement, "must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast haste," since you use all 0 of them.

Now, while this gets you what you want, I don't think it works too well with Swiftblade class features and it has been known to cause your head to spontaneously attract DMGs.

[gkathellar]

You can scribe the Trapsmith Haste into your spellbook

Trapsmith Haste isn't a different spell from wizard Haste any more than Antimagic Field is a different spell for wizards and clerics simply because they cast it at different spell levels. If a wizard has haste in his spellbook, he "knows" it as a 3rd level wizard spell.

If he had a Trapsmith level, he could also "know" it as a 1st-level Trapsmith spell. Since he doesn't, he can't.


(incidentally, a Wizard can scribe any spell into his spellbook, he just can't prepare them).

Maybe, but it doesn't matter. Any spell in your spellbook is a generally known spell, but you can't gain a spell that isn't on your spell list as a spell known.

[DoughGuy]

Trapsmith Haste isn't a different spell from wizard Haste any more than Antimagic Field is a different spell for wizards and clerics simply because they cast it at different spell levels. If a wizard has haste in his spellbook, he "knows" it as a 3rd level wizard spell.

If he had a Trapsmith level, he could also "know" it as a 1st-level Trapsmith spell. Since he doesn't, he can't.



Maybe, but it doesn't matter. Any spell in your spellbook is a generally known spell, but you can't gain a spell that isn't on your spell list as a spell known.

Trapsmith haste is different to wizard haste in the way that Paladin lesser restoration is different to Cleric lesser restoration. If the archivist can scribe the same spell at 2 different spell levels why can't a wizard?

[gkathellar]

Trapsmith haste is different to wizard haste in the way that Paladin lesser restoration is different to Cleric lesser restoration. If the archivist can scribe the same spell at 2 different spell levels why can't a wizard?

A) You're going to have to give me a citation on that.

B) Archivist text specifically says you can learn spells off of a variety of lists. Wizards do not. They can only learn spells off of their own list, like most spellcasters, which means that they can never have Haste as presented on the Trapsmith list as a known spell.