Low LA Races With Natural Attacks [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

View Full Version : Low LA Races With Natural Attacks

Hashmir

2012-01-20, 01:32 AM

Pretty much what it says on the tin. I'm curious about races with access to bites, claws, slams, or anything else that could seriously be used as a primary mode of attack for a PC. I'm not actually making a character, but I'm particularly interested in the following:

Low LA (preferably +0, of course)
Practical for a real game (no making the DMs cry!)
Bonus points for being able to qualify for multiattack
Bonus points for being (again, practically) able to take racial paragon levels or monster hit dice that improve or synergize with the natural attacks

Conversely, things like natural spellcasting abilities and other strange effects are unimportant or even discouraged, due to the increase in LA and the decrease in likelihood that a DM would be happy to allow the race. Stuff like the Dragonborn breath weapon is nice, but it's not a primary attack.

Finally, I recognize that what I'm asking for is probably still not very good compared to regular races and real classes. We're focusing on melee, so I would be happy with any build that's at least at the level of the high-tier-5 Fighter (and indeed it may be a Fighter).

So what have you got?

tyckspoon

2012-01-20, 01:39 AM

gorfnab

2012-01-20, 01:44 AM

How about Beguiler from Shining South? (See post 2 "Ling Ling" for an amusing build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1276.0)). It's LA +0. It has claws, bite, and rake for natural attacks. It also has True Seeing which is kinda handy as well.

TurtleKing

2012-01-20, 01:46 AM

Darfellans from Stormwrack have a bite attack. In aquatic campaigns that only have brief dives underwater proves to be an excellent race as also ranged and spellcasting is weaker underwater. As such that Hold Breath ability which could be looking at close to ten minutes easy plus a natural melee weapon give them the advantage than others in such a setting.

Reason say ranged is weaker as Aquatic Longbows (no composite version!) have a range increment of 10ft with a feat increasing that to 30ft without Far Shot. Aquatic Crossbows are better since 40ft range increment so in this instance crossbows are better. For spellcasting need a feat to even work especially if the spell is fire based.

Bloodgruve

2012-01-20, 01:57 AM

Feral Template, add claws, stats and fast healing to any race for +1 LA. its Savage Species 3.0 but was never updated so should be good in 3.5

With the kobold you can get a tail attack also with a feat.

Throw 2 levels of totemist on the kobold for 8 attacks or warforfed for 9.

GL,
Blood~

Hashmir

2012-01-20, 02:08 AM

Notable 0-LA:
Web Enhanced-Kobolds: 2 Claws and a Bite (low damage dice, works best with bonus-damage builds like Inspire Courage-focused Bards or Sneak Attackers)
Warforged: generally excellent regardless, Slam attack, can get another Slam and a Bite with feats.

Lowish LA/HD:
Most 'monstrous' Humanoids (as distinct from Monstrous Humanoids, the type)- your various animalFolk (Lizard, Goat, etc), Troglodytes, and the like. Most of these come with 1-3 HD and 1-3 LA, some natural armor, and at least one natural attack. A claw/claw/bite routine is the most common.
Are AnimalFolk the thing from Savage Species, where you take a non-humanoid and make it a humanoid?

Also, could someone please explain to me why Troglodytes have a +2 LA and are required to come in at 2 HD? Is it just because of the natural armor and Con bonus? Maybe the stench attack? Would it honestly be unbalanced to make them LA +1 or even +0, possibly with some minor modifications (say, +2 natural armor instead of +6, etc.)? Does the answer to that question change if the intent is to make a Tier 4-5 melee character?

How about Beguiler from Shining South? (See post 2 "Ling Ling" for an amusing build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1276.0)). It's LA +0. It has claws, bite, and rake for natural attacks. It also has True Seeing which is kinda handy as well.

That's kinda cool. I could see that being useful for a rogue/swordsage, with Dex to hit and to damage and four attacks in a full attack to get SA.

kardar233

2012-01-20, 02:20 AM

A Shifter (ECS, RoE) can get two claw attacks (or a gore, tail, or bite attack) when shifting, and can take feats to get more and more powerful attacks.

Togath

2012-01-20, 02:25 AM

Are AnimalFolk the thing from Savage Species, where you take a non-humanoid and make it a humanoid?

the animal folk mentioned by others are(probably) things such as the lizardfolk or catfolk et cetera(though I dont think the catfolk dont have a natural attack you get the idea, there are many low lvl adjustment races that have names like "catfolk" or "lizardfolk")
edit; there are also forestkith goblins(mmIII), which possess a +1 lvl adjustment and have a bite attack(though the race isn't very powerful, and is more deserving of a +0 lvl adjustment)

Morithias

2012-01-20, 02:29 AM

Warforged is La 0 and has a slam attack. It's a good race, and it has access to two feats second slam, and jaws of death for extra attacks.

Or you could make it a monk and have fists of fury as well (remember the RAW anything that can enhance a natural attack can enhance a monk's fists).

They also have the "battlefist" equipment that make their slam do 1d8, and their unarmed attacks do one size larger damage. All yours for a mere 2600 gp!

Hashmir

2012-01-20, 02:42 AM

the animal folk mentioned by others are(probably) things such as the lizardfolk or catfolk et cetera(though I dont think the catfolk dont have a natural attack you get the idea, there are many low lvl adjustment races that have names like "catfolk" or "lizardfolk")
edit; there are also forestkith goblins(mmIII), which possess a +1 lvl adjustment and have a bite attack(though the race isn't very powerful, and is more deserving of a +0 lvl adjustment)

I see.

So, now that we have all these ideas for races, here's a trickier question:

How can we take one of these races and build a character that, using natural attacks, is as combat effective as, say, a reasonably optimized, mostly core, human fighter, ranger, or barbarian? (It is obviously acceptable to actually take these classes, so long as we use our natural weapons.)

I mean, sure, we could just play a rogue who uses claws instead of daggers and gets all of their damage from Sneak Attacks anyway, but I'm interested in builds that really play up and have fun with the fact that you're fighting with your bare damn hands claws. Ideally, there are some feats and things we can take for our natural attacks that aren't just "make your natural attack marginally closer to being as good as a real weapon" - something to make our boring human fighter friend jealous, you know?

kardar233

2012-01-20, 02:50 AM

tyckspoon

2012-01-20, 03:00 AM

Ooh, and how did I forget:

If you don't mind being a weird bug-thing, the Thri-kreen. Ruling king of racially-granted natural attacks (for land-based creatures, at least), featuring 4 claws and a bite for only 2 HD +1 LA (non-psionic version, found in Monster Manual 2 and Shining South.) Also comes with a ludicrously huge Jump check.

The Dark Fiddler

2012-01-20, 06:41 AM

The Skarn from Magic of Incarnum get 2(?) arm-blades as natural weapons, and +Strength, if I remember correctly. Come with a few racial substitution levels (but no paragon, as far as I know), a PrC for their weapons (Spinemeld Warrior, but I have no idea how good it is), and it's in the same book as Totemist, the great natural weapon class.

sonofzeal

2012-01-20, 06:53 AM

My personal favorite are Poison Dusk Lizardfolk from MM3. They're LA+1 but no RHD and kind of deserve their LA. They're tough, fast, stealthy, and have three natural attacks. They're amazing rogues, but honestly they work decently for most classes that care about AC, extra melee attacks, stealth, or any combination of the above.

Greenish

2012-01-20, 06:56 AM

I'm interested in builds that really play up and have fun with the fact that you're fighting with your bare damn hands claws. Ideally, there are some feats and things we can take for our natural attacks that aren't just "make your natural attack marginally closer to being as good as a real weapon" - something to make our boring human fighter friend jealous, you know?So you want to play a totemist? Good call!

Canine

2012-01-20, 07:10 AM

Thayan Gladiator (CoR) has some weak feats required for entry, but gives you some nice boosts to one natural weapon (probably applies to both claws). It requires you to be evil, but that might be less of a problem than getting your DM to agree to use Incarnum.

TurtleKing

2012-01-20, 07:36 AM

I have another though not quite fitting at the same time.

The Raptoran is the only LA 0 race that can fly naturally. While they do not have a natural attack as in terms of their feet using a footbow. Raptorans do qualify for Stormtalon quite easily which removes them from using Footbows in turn makes their feet into talons that eventually do 1d8 damage piercing damage. Reason why I say piercing is when they do a diving charge they deal double damage with piercing weapons. Stormtalon also adds around 5 or so bonus feats based on flying as well increasing your speed. Some of those feats are Diving Charge which adds certain d6s based on flight speed with the added benefit of being able to pull out and fly horizontally after charging your target. So basically it also has Flyby Attack built right in when making an aerial charge.

So dependent on DM ruling of a Raptoran Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Stormtalon 10/whatever else 4 dealing twice the Dungeoncrasher's Bull Rush by using a piercing weapon plus the damage from Diving Charge and the like. DM dependent yes but if says yes then could be looking at 16d6+(Str mod either x4 or x6) damage on a charge. Benefit there is being melee viable long past others due to the flying.

Hashmir

2012-01-20, 12:09 PM

So you want to play a totemist? Good call!

I am intrigued by this "totemist." What is it and how does it work?

I have another though not quite fitting at the same time.

The Raptoran is the only LA 0 race that can fly naturally. While they do not have a natural attack as in terms of their feet using a footbow. Raptorans do qualify for Stormtalon quite easily which removes them from using Footbows in turn makes their feet into talons that eventually do 1d8 damage piercing damage. Reason why I say piercing is when they do a diving charge they deal double damage with piercing weapons. Stormtalon also adds around 5 or so bonus feats based on flying as well increasing your speed. Some of those feats are Diving Charge which adds certain d6s based on flight speed with the added benefit of being able to pull out and fly horizontally after charging your target. So basically it also has Flyby Attack built right in when making an aerial charge.

So dependent on DM ruling of a Raptoran Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Stormtalon 10/whatever else 4 dealing twice the Dungeoncrasher's Bull Rush by using a piercing weapon plus the damage from Diving Charge and the like. DM dependent yes but if says yes then could be looking at 16d6+(Str mod either x4 or x6) damage on a charge. Benefit there is being melee viable long past others due to the flying.

This is pretty cool. It fits really well with the theme of using the class to support the race, rather than the other way around.

Also, I'm really glad I started this thread. Lots of great ideas for future characters! :smallbiggrin:

Greenish

2012-01-20, 12:17 PM

I am intrigued by this "totemist." What is it and how does it work?It's a class for tearing off faces with your bare claws (and tentacles, and teeth, and all sorts of appendages), found in Magic of Incarnum. Comes complete with tricks to turn the fighter green with envy.

See the Incarnum Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=551.0) for short intro (5th post) and Totemist Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0) proper.

Hashmir

2012-01-20, 12:21 PM

Linky for the Black Blood Cultist's Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870826/Black_Blood_Cultist_Handbook:_A_Grapplers_Manual).

Also, the Shifter Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225294).

Just got around to properly reading the Shifter Handbook, so I just looked at the warshaper prestige class.

That is awesome.

Greenish

2012-01-20, 12:51 PM

Amusingly (or perhaps not), while shifters can qualify for warshaper, they don't gain any benefits from the class, since all the class features require you to be in a form that's not your own. :smalltongue:

Also, I notice shifter handbook neglected to mention Bloodclaw Master in the PrC section. Tut tut.

Darrin

2012-01-20, 06:01 PM

One more:

Kenku (MM3), claw/claw.

Darfellen, Warforged, Desert Kobold, and Skarn all make decent Totemists, since they each have a non-claw natural weapon that they can add to a Girallon Arms soulmeld (4 claws when bound to your totem chakra).

If you're not going Totemist, Silverbrow Human can get two claw attacks with Shape Soulmeld: Claws of the Wyrm (Dragon Magic) and a bite attack a Fanged Mask (MIC) or the Hunger Domain (Spell Compendium).

Adding Dragonborn of Bahumat allows you to swap one of your existing feats for Dragon Tail, which adds a tail attack. However, if you have natural weapons as a racial ability, you probably lose that.