All the Knowledges

[DoughGuy]

In my current campaign I'm playing an factotum//archivist and recently took the knowledge devotion feat. From there I decided that I would use my massive amount of skill points to get ranks into every knowledge skill. At the moment I have -
The Planes
Dungeoneering
Arcana
Nature
Religion
Nobility and Royalty
Local
Geography
Architecture
Psionics
History

Are there any I am missing? If so which and which book do they come from?

[Pilo]

Knowledge(local) is a group of knowledges.
You have to associate a place or a region to it.

By exemple Hamlet is a city from Greyhawk, you can have the skill: "Knowledge(local : Hamlet)". It means you know the place.

[Feytalist]

You probably mean Hommlet is a village in Greyhawk.

I think it's been accepted that it is possible just to have Knowledge (local), without giving a specific region, and just have situational modifiers, depending on your character's familiarity of the region. It specifically pertains to knowledge of humanoids, for the purposes of Knowledge Devotion and such.

[Murmaider]

Why would you need all knowledges anyway? certainly not to empower your knowledge devotion, which only profits from knowledges that are somehow tied to a type of enemy.

In Ghostwalk there is knowledge: ghost lore. Don't ask me what it is good for though, I never really looked into it.

[Kobold-Bard]

Not technically a Knowledge skill, but Martial Lore is basically Knowledge (Stuff in Tome of Battle).

[Elboxo]

You only really need the ones that cover creatures types... Nature, Religion, Local, Psionics, Arcana, Planes, etc.

All of them ( I'm looking at you, Nobility and Royalty ) would just be a waste of skills.....

[Kobold-Bard]

Ooh, and don't forget Lore/Bardic Knowledge for all the random crap that skills won't get you.

Edit: And I can't be certain, but I imagine the Book of Erotic Fantasy probably added one since they felt it necessary to add a new attribute.

[gomipile]

Game mechanics wise, Knowledge(Local) might as well be Knowledge(All Humanoid Species.) As far as the written rules are concerned, you might as well forget the meaning and context you ascribe to the word "Local," and just think of it as another skill which does exactly what it says.

Another good description for Knowledge(Local) is Knowledge(I Read Travelogues For Fun.) That covers all of the uses:(legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids.)

[Killer Angel]

All of them ( I'm looking at you, Nobility and Royalty ) would just be a waste of skills.....

Well, it's not the best skill around, but at least it gives you synergy bonus to diplomacy...

[Greenish]

Knowledge(local) is a group of knowledges.
You have to associate a place or a region to it.Only if you play in FR.

[Psyren]

Only if you play in FR.

It makes sense to me though; just because I know everything about Sharn doesn't mean I know a thing about Riedra. I'd probably split them in my games, coupled with lowering the DC for individual checks to compensate for lower scores. (It's easy to learn the customs of a particular town, even if you aren't particularly book-smart.)

[zimmerwald1915]

(It's easy to learn the customs of a particular town, even if you aren't particularly book-smart.)
Anthropologists would tend to disagree, if only to protect their grants. :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, the knowledge skills are already split up far enough, and skill points scarce enough, to make splitting them up further or adding more an exercise in futility. Already most conversation about them revolves around which to not take.

[Psyren]

Anthropologists would tend to disagree, if only to protect their grants. :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, the knowledge skills are already split up far enough, and skill points scarce enough, to make splitting them up further or adding more an exercise in futility. Already most conversation about them revolves around which to not take.

A point each to make the checks trained is usually enough; after that, you can rely on bonuses and modifiers to make your DCs, while focusing on the handful you're responsible for knowing in-depth. The higher DCs are typically for "solving the campaign" - e.g. "you know Bob the NPC's name, his organization, and everything about him." But the lower stuff is the stuff that actually gets the game moving again without skipping half the content.

[Anxe]

Knowledge (Tactics) is one included in Kingdoms of Kalamar 3rd party stuff. It makes a lot of sense to me. Otherwise Tactics is rolled into Nobility or History.

[Hirax]

Not technically a Knowledge skill, but Martial Lore is basically Knowledge (Stuff in Tome of Battle).

It's more like spellcraft for maneuvers.

[NeoSeraphi]

Knowledge (Local Wasteland Region) is from Sandstorm.

[Greenish]

Knowledge (Tactics) is one included in Kingdoms of Kalamar 3rd party stuff. It makes a lot of sense to me. Otherwise Tactics is rolled into Nobility or History.According to Heroes of Battle, Knowledge (History) doubles as "Knowledge (War)".

[Philistine]

It's more like spellcraft for maneuvers.

Sure. But then, Spellcraft pretty much boils down to "Knowledge(Academic Understanding of Magic)."

[Gullintanni]

According to Heroes of Battle, Knowledge (History) doubles as "Knowledge (War)".

...since most of the history worth knowing typically involves War?

[Tyndmyr]

Knowledge (Tactics) is one included in Kingdoms of Kalamar 3rd party stuff. It makes a lot of sense to me. Otherwise Tactics is rolled into Nobility or History.

It's stolen from D20 Modern/Past/etc

[Greenish]

...since most of the history worth knowing typically involves War?…Since most wars are history, I imagine. :smallamused:

[Hirax]

Sure. But then, Spellcraft pretty much boils down to "Knowledge(Academic Understanding of Magic)."

Yeah, I've never liked that division either. Even as someone that prefers spot, listen, search, move silently, and hide be separate skills, I believe arcana and spellcraft, martial lore and local, and psicraft and psionics should be merged. Along with UMD and UPD while we're at it.

[ahenobarbi]

Yeah, I've never liked that division either. Even as someone that prefers spot, listen, search, move silently, and hide be separate skills, I believe arcana and spellcraft, martial lore and local, and psicraft and psionics should be merged. Along with UMD and UPD while we're at it.

Well I think it makes sense... Knowledge(Arcane) is theoretical (know stuff like "what school of magic has <color> aura and what are it's typical uses", "how does spell casting work", "how does antimagic field work"). Spellcraft is practical ("when someone does this gestures it's <name> spell", "to get rid of <effect> you could use <spell name>", ...).

Pretty much like Knowledge(cars) would let you know how cars are built and work in theory and Carcraft would let you recognize problems with cars, fix them etc.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Pretty much like Knowledge(cars) would let you know how cars are built and work in theory and Carcraft would let you recognize problems with cars, fix them etc.

Wouldn't Carcraft be Profession (Mechanic)?

[Hirax]

Well I think it makes sense... Knowledge(Arcane) is theoretical (know stuff like "what school of magic has <color> aura and what are it's typical uses", "how does spell casting work", "how does antimagic field work"). Spellcraft is practical ("when someone does this gestures it's <name> spell", "to get rid of <effect> you could use <spell name>", ...).

Pretty much like Knowledge(cars) would let you know how cars are built and work in theory and Carcraft would let you recognize problems with cars, fix them etc.

Well sure, that's the same as with martial lore and local as written in ToB. I agree that the distinction is easy to make, but it's one I'd be very happy to do away with.

[King Atticus]

It makes sense to me though; just because I know everything about Sharn doesn't mean I know a thing about Riedra. I'd probably split them in my games, coupled with lowering the DC for individual checks to compensate for lower scores. (It's easy to learn the customs of a particular town, even if you aren't particularly book-smart.)

If you play it this way you should make sure to do what my DM did for me. I spent some downtime in a city going to museums and talking to the curator and then going in to some pubs and talking to some old retired soldier/adventurer types about the city and their experiences in it, so my DM threw me some free ranks in Knowledge: Local (This City).

If you're going to divide local into minutia be liberal with free skill points to compensate for it.

[Psyren]

If you're going to divide local into minutia be liberal with free skill points to compensate for it.

Yeah, I definitely agree. That or adding on a competence/circumstance bonus for PCs that do their homework.

[Necroticplague]

Wouldn't Carcraft be Profession (Mechanic)?

No, Profession (Mechanic) is your ability to make money as a mechanic, and has very little bearing on your ability to actually fix a car.

[Venger]

Knowledge(local) is a group of knowledges.
You have to associate a place or a region to it.

By exemple Hamlet is a city from Greyhawk, you can have the skill: "Knowledge(local : Hamlet)". It means you know the place.

that is in 3.0. in 3.5, they changed knowledge (Local) so you no longer need to specify a region



At the moment I have -
The Planes
Dungeoneering
Arcana
Nature
Religion
Nobility and Royalty
Local
Geography
Architecture
Psionics
History


Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
Dungeoneering (aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking)
Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)
Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin)
Religion (gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead)
The planes (the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, magic related to the planes)

you already have all the ones that identify different monster types, which is what knowledge devotion is used for.


Architecture and engineering (buildings, aqueducts, bridges, fortifications)
Geography (lands, terrain, climate, people)
History (royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities)
Nobility and royalty (lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities)
these are the other ones, and they really aren't worth the time of day. there is occasionally the odd prc that makes you take ranks in one of these to qualify (many of the nautical ones require geography which while logical is annoying since no one has ever made a knowledge geography check) but knowledge devotion does not apply to these, so there's no real reason to buy ranks in them.

[Jeraa]

that is in 3.0. in 3.5, they changed knowledge (Local) so you no longer need to specify a region

You didn't have to pick a specific region in 3.0 either. At least not in my copy of the 3.0 PHB.

[Alleine]

All of them ( I'm looking at you, Nobility and Royalty ) would just be a waste of skills.....

If your DM is nice they might let you get a bonus when attacking royalty with Knowledge Devotion :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

It makes sense to me though; just because I know everything about Sharn doesn't mean I know a thing about Riedra. I'd probably split them in my games, coupled with lowering the DC for individual checks to compensate for lower scores. (It's easy to learn the customs of a particular town, even if you aren't particularly book-smart.)

Considering that with most of the stuff, the plebes have to be able to know it and they can't know DC 10+ stuff themselves...

And, well, skill points, there's already a paucity of them, no need to be adding to it without mitigating it.


Yeah, I've never liked that division either. Even as someone that prefers spot, listen, search, move silently, and hide be separate skills, I believe arcana and spellcraft, martial lore and local, and psicraft and psionics should be merged. Along with UMD and UPD while we're at it.

Huh, guess I'll have to re-read the skills section of ToB to see the link between martial lore and knowledge: local then. But I concur with that kind of change myself.

[deuxhero]

According to Heroes of Battle, Knowledge (History) doubles as "Knowledge (War)".

Also supported by Red Knight Paladin sublevels getting it and Warmind requiring it.

[DemonRoach]

If your DM is nice they might let you get a bonus when attacking royalty with Knowledge Devotion :smallbiggrin:

"You got a 23 on the check. You know this to be the Baron D'Chaneau, well noted for his thickness of skull, blows to his soft belly will be far more effective."

[ShriekingDrake]

It would be useful, I suppose, to establish a comprehensive list of WOTC publish skills. I suspect that there may be some in published modules, as well.

[Greenish]

Also supported by Red Knight Paladin sublevels getting it and Warmind requiring it.And of course, all ToB classes get it.

[Urpriest]

these are the other ones, and they really aren't worth the time of day. there is occasionally the odd prc that makes you take ranks in one of these to qualify (many of the nautical ones require geography which while logical is annoying since no one has ever made a knowledge geography check) but knowledge devotion does not apply to these, so there's no real reason to buy ranks in them.

Knowledge (Geography) is part of the sailing minigame in Stormwrack.

[Kosjsjach]

One interesting variant I've read (but haven't used) is rolling Knowledge [geography, history, local, nobility] together into Knowledge [region(x)]. It behaves like traditional Knowledge [local(x)] in the sense that you need to invest points separately for various areas, but you get a wider payoff for your investiture (5 ranks would get you the synergy bonuses on bardic knowledge, Gather Information and Diplomacy for interactions in that region, and Survival checks vs getting lost, for example).

[Morithias]

Knowledge (history) is used with Legacy items, that can be useful.

Knowledge (geography) is rarely used, but if a DM REALLY wanted to be a jerk, could technically require one when you're trying to go anywhere you haven't traveled before.

Knowledge (local) is used to find contacts in the criminal underworld (Dragon 336).

and last but not least. The rogue will like Knowledge (architecture), a DC 20 check lets you find a weakspot in a building, DC 25 gives two hints on how to break into a place. Could be useful if you want to go rob people's houses.

[Morph Bark]

Get 5 ranks in them all to get synergy bonuses (especially if you're taking some Survival as well), then afterwards only invest in those skills that are tied to creature types.

[FMArthur]

You should be able to substitute knowledge checks that are unrelated at a penalty. It is kind of ridiculous that studying for +40 worth of History would not grant you even the slightest bit of insight into geography, or nobility and royalty. No arcana books ever mention divine magic? Knowing animals inside and out has no application to humanoid biology? Come on.

I'd let someone do an unrelated Knowledge check at a -10 penalty give or take some, depending on the player's reasoning. There must at least be a feat or a class feature that does this in the actual rules though. Is there one? It just seems odd for that not to exist. :smallconfused:

There is Bardic Knowledge, but it is a somewhat different, more restricted approach to generalized knowledge and is based on hearsay so it's not even the same concept.

[Coidzor]

I'd let someone do an unrelated Knowledge check at a -10 penalty give or take some, depending on the player's reasoning. There must at least be a feat or a class feature that does this in the actual rules though. Is there one? It just seems odd for that not to exist. :smallconfused:

Meh, that should just be a variant rule rather than something that one has to spend character resources on or it defeats the point of it.


There is Bardic Knowledge, but it is a somewhat different, more restricted approach to generalized knowledge and is based on hearsay so it's not even the same concept.

I've run into the idea often enough that Bardic Knowledge basically works as "knowledge, any and all" that I'd say it's a fairly popular houserule though.

[FMArthur]

Meh, that should just be a variant rule rather than something that one has to spend character resources on or it defeats the point of it.

Yeah, that was sort of the idea I was going for there. I'm only surprised that no specific abilities anywhere have introduced this easy Knowledges workaround in the absense of such a houserule.

[King Atticus]

Knowledge (architecture), a DC 20 check lets you find a weakspot in a building, DC 25 gives two hints on how to break into a place. Could be useful if you want to go rob people's houses.

Where can I find this? I would love to be able to take advantage of this utilize my knowledge to it's fullest potential. I'm currently playing a wealth acquisition specialist who would find this very helpful.

[absolmorph]

Ooh, and don't forget Lore/Bardic Knowledge for all the random crap that skills won't get you.

Edit: And I can't be certain, but I imagine the Book of Erotic Fantasy probably added one since they felt it necessary to add a new attribute.
They didn't, I checked.


Meh, that should just be a variant rule rather than something that one has to spend character resources on or it defeats the point of it.



I've run into the idea often enough that Bardic Knowledge basically works as "knowledge, any and all" that I'd say it's a fairly popular houserule though.
Really? I always thought it was Knowledge (Plothook)...

[Morithias]

Where can I find this? I would love to be able to take advantage of this utilize my knowledge to it's fullest potential. I'm currently playing a wealth acquisition specialist who would find this very helpful.

Complete Warrior. Page 122. Technically it's "find weakness in stronghold" but i'm pretty sure any sane DM would let you use it on a normal house.

Find Weaknesses in a Stronghold (CWar p122) Time: unlisted Retry? No Take 10? Yes Take 20? No
Find weaknesses in an observed stronghold (+5 Circumstance bonus with an accurate map) — one “strategic tip” for DC 20, two for DC 25, etc.

Oh and in Storm Wrack. Knowledge Engineering is used to build and design ships.

[kulosle]

No, Profession (Mechanic) is your ability to make money as a mechanic, and has very little bearing on your ability to actually fix a car.

You would think that it would be craft (car) since the craft skill is used to fix and repair things. Any ways enough joking aside. The main reason some DM's make you split up local is because then it just becomes a bardic knowledge that everyone has. But really it's not, for one it cost skill points, for two they reveal different things and for different reasons. Knowledge local is "I read a brochure about this place" or "I use to visit here" while bardic knowledge is "I heard a story about this town from Sven the troll killer and he says that this town has had a lot of troll problems."

As for getting all of the knowledges, you only need the ones in the players hand book and not even all of them.

[Greenish]

As for getting all of the knowledges, you only need the ones in the players hand book and not even all of them.That's obviously not true, since if you only had the PHB knowledges, you wouldn't have all knowledges. :smallamused:

If you mean "all knowledges relevant to knowledge devotion", well, that's not what the OP wanted.

[Tr011]

I played a Factotum two weeks ago, but only for one session (dumbed him after, this class is not my friend). I took every knowledge skill from Core except for knowledge (psionics) because my DM never used any monster or anything where it would have been good to have it. I think knowledge (architecture) i.e. is nice, as Order of the Stick shows. Knowledge (royality and nobility) may be useful when you suddenly face some sort of intrigue-campaign/adventure.