10level mage-sniper ~

[leegi0n]

Playgrounders,

Going into a new game as a PC. I want to play a spellwarp sniper. So, is it advisable, you think, to do wiz5/sniper5 for that or is there a little tweak you guys know about that could maximize it further?

[Diarmuid]

How are you getting the 1d6 Sneak Attack or Skirmish with Wiz5?

[leegi0n]

oh yeah, huh... ok, how about spellthief 1/wizard4/sniper5

[Venger]

oh yeah, huh... ok, how about spellthief 1/wizard4/sniper5

spellwarp sniper requires 3rd lvl arcane spells, which wizards only get at lvl 5.

play as a marrulurk from sandstorm. they're little jackal-headed guys and confer the following benefits:

monstrous humanoid
small size
+4 racial bonus to hide/move silently
10 foot cone of nauseating breath (DC is con-based) 1/day
poison use
death attack (cha-based)
+2d6 sneak attack

all for only LA +1. this way, instead of just getting 1d6 of SA from dipping spellthief/rogue/ninja and delaying your casting progression by 1, you get 2d6 SA plus some other cool stuff for the same effective "delay" in your caster progression for the +1 LA. this would get you in at lvl 6 (assuming wiz 5/spellwarp sniper x) a level earlier than you're supposed to be able to qualify. the bonuses on sneaking skills will also make it easier to pop off SAs. remember, when you attack with energy damage (fire, electricity, acid, cold, or negative energy) then the SA dice turn into the same type, so keep this in mind when fighting foes with elemental vulnerability.

good luck with spellwarp sniper!

[Greenish]

all for only LA +1.I do think you're overselling the marrulurk a bit, by neglecting to mention it's 3 RHD.

[Venger]

I do think you're overselling the marrulurk a bit, by neglecting to mention it's 3 RHD.

oh, seriously?

(checks)

whoops! my mistake. In the older books, they'll say under "such-and-such monsters as characters" how many RHD they have in case you missed it looking at the statblock, which is just what happened to me. I just saw +1 LA and missed that he had 3 RHD. yeah, ECL+4 is in no way worth it for a marrulurk then, I thought it was just ECL +1

in that case, just dip unseen seer for 1 level before you go into spellwarp sniper so you don't lose a level of caster progression. the "damage bonus" will give you 1d6 Sneak attack/sudden strike (it is not actually required to enter unseen seer, so 0d6+1d6 = 1d6, qualifying you for spellwarp sniper, and the splats always say "note: this improvement to ability X doesn't give you ability X if you didn't already have it" it's missing here, so it doesn't apply.

[Feralventas]

Unseen Seer requires that the individual have skill ranks up to 8 that aren't Wizard class skills, and is generally intended to come from the other direction (SWS for Caster5/thief1, USS for thief5/caster1)

Both are decent for the concept, but you'd need a few more levels to work with to get synergy with both. Wizard 5 with a dip in Rogue or Ninja should suffice; if anything, I'd suggest using Rogue as the 1st level so as to get 8+int mod skills X4 to really capitalize on the dip.

If you have access to Pathfinder, the Arcane Trickster PrC gives spell progression and sneak attack with a few other nifty tricks, though I don't think that's the case.

9th caster level as a Wizard grants access to 5th level spells, just one or two less than 10th. Another alternative could be to use the thief5/caster1 set up for the first five levels, take Practiced Casting for a +4 to your CL and go into Unseen Seer so as to have 5d6 Sneak Attack, 5th level 'casting, and then just use Lesser Orb and Orb spells from Spell Compendium to deal your sneak attacks from behind Invisibility or other concealment. You'd qualify for SWS by 11th level about the time you'd be picking up the heavy-hitting AOE spells, still be able to hit with full CL thanks to Practiced Caster, and have a lot more Sneak Attack for your trouble.

But if your heart's set on SWS, Caster5/Thief1 is your easiest entry.

[Venger]

I was a little bit vague. I didn't mean for him to go wiz5/US1/spellwarp sniper since I know that's not possible. spellwarp sniper fits equally well anywhere in a build. I'm not sure of any full arcane casting class that offers Hide, Search, Sense Motive and Spot as class skills, so it looks like you need to dip into a noncasting class to qualify for unseen seer too (beguilers notwithstanding, since they make terrible spellwarp snipers)

[Feralventas]

Beguiler can work, but only through the expanded spell list options to pick up some solid damage spells, though I think some from the list granted via a dip in Sand Shaper (Sandstorm splatbook) might work for it. Bard also qualifies, though going Bard into USS into SWS before going Sublime Chord may or may not function smoothly.

Actually, looking at Arcane Trickster in the DMG, it also has full spell progression >.>;. Might be worth looking at as well...

[Venger]

Beguiler can work, but only through the expanded spell list options to pick up some solid damage spells, though I think some from the list granted via a dip in Sand Shaper (Sandstorm splatbook) might work for it. Bard also qualifies, though going Bard into USS into SWS before going Sublime Chord may or may not function smoothly.

Actually, looking at Arcane Trickster in the DMG, it also has full spell progression >.>;. Might be worth looking at as well...

well, yes, but beguiler's advanced learning must be from enchantment or illusion and those don't have many rays/damaging spells

arcane trickster does indeed have full casting and SA progression, but it requires 2d6 SA and 7 ranks in escape artist and disable device which are not wizard skills. I agree that it would be an excellent choice once he was done with his spellwarp sniper levels, but if he qualified for arcane trickster, he'd probably already qualify for spellwarp sniper which he's rightfully more excited about, its class features are a lot more fun than arcane trickster's, so he'd probably want to enter it first.

[leegi0n]

I'm gonna build him rogue1/wizard5/unseen seer2/spellwarp2 (drow for dex bonus)

[Eurus]

Drow is almost certainly not worth it. The dex bonus doesn't come close to making up for the lost spell levels from level adjustment.

[leegi0n]

no, the version I'm gonna use doesn't carry the +2 LA


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Variant2_Drow_%283.5e_Race%29

[Venger]

I'm gonna build him rogue1/wizard5/unseen seer2/spellwarp2 (drow for dex bonus)

sounds like fun! I hope it works out for you. be aware of drow's +2 LA (gotta pay for that sweet spell resistance somehow, your proposed build occupies 12 character levels) and make sure to pick up a pair of sundark goggles (10gp) to negate your light sensitivity.

if you don't care about the spell resistance (what makes drow's LA so high) and just want dex, there are a lot of LA 0 options available that give the same (or sometimes more) dex:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19546874/Master_Player_Race_List_Version_2.0

what do you want dex for? is that part of your other 10 levels?

[leegi0n]

dex for ranged attack

[NNescio]

no, the version I'm gonna use doesn't carry the +2 LA


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Variant2_Drow_%283.5e_Race%29

That's homebrew, and it's from one of the worst sites to boot. That said, the variant itself isn't too bad, but make sure you clear it with your DM first since it's still, well, homebrew.


dex for ranged attack
Try a small-sized race then. You'll get the same bonus to your ranged attack. A couple of them (e.g. Halfing) also give a further Dex bonus in exchange for a Str penalty, and you really don't need Str.

Strongheart Halfling (FRCS) is attractive if you want an extra feat. Whisper Gnome (RoS) works well if you dislike the 20 ft movement rate of most small races, since it gets 30 ft instead (not to mention that it also has some rather strong attribute modifiers for a caster).

Of course, if you must have an elf, is there a reason why you want Drow in particular?

[gorfnab]

I recommend reading through this handbook: Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240.0)
I also recommend going Spellthief instead of Rogue. If you take the feat Master Spellthief then you can wear armor and have a better CL. Also remember to grab the Spontaneous Divination ACF (CC) for wizard.

[Dusk Eclipse]

How come nobody has mentioned Spellthief? With Master Spellthief you get an awesome CL and the skills aren't half bad.

Also I suggest you also consider Sorcerer if only for Wings of Flurry, 1d6/level uncapped force damage? And with Spellwarp Sniper you also get to daze them for free!!!

Trickster spellthief might also be considered for a more-roguish build I think.

[Greenish]

How come nobody has mentioned Spellthief?:smallamused:


oh yeah, huh... ok, how about spellthief 1/wizard4/sniper5


Unseen Seer requires that the individual have skill ranks up to 8 that aren't Wizard class skills, and is generally intended to come from the other direction (SWS for Caster5/thief1


I also recommend going Spellthief instead of Rogue.

[Dusk Eclipse]

That is what happens when I just skim the posts.... :smallredface: My bad.

[darksolitaire]

I can't believe that Assassin's stance is not mentioned. I am shocked. Almost too shocked for words. Atleast it's mentioned in one post in the link, but not in the first post.:smallyuk:

Wizard 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Arcane Trickster 10 because Impromptu Sneak Attack rocks, or Wizard 5/Spellwarp Sniper/Unseen Seer 10 if third attack is desired.

[Greenish]

Wizard 5/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Arcane Trickster 10 because Impromptu Sneak Attack rocks, or Wizard 5/Spellwarp Sniper/Unseen Seer 10 if third attack is desired.How do you get the SA to enter Spellwarp Sniper with Wizard 5?