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Vemynal
2012-01-20, 03:57 PM
Hey everyone! So I think I have finally designed a character that to me maintains the feel and uniqueness of the paladin but who easily qualifies as tier 1 or tier 2.

The class boils down to: 6Cleric/3Prestige Paladin/10Fist of Raziel/1Cleric
9th level spells (at level 19), Smite Evil 6/day (with bonuses to it!) and 18 BAB with a *butt-load* of special abilities! Race has not been decided. This character is meant to be played as a support combatant/Buffer and will be in the thick of things.

The problem is I'm unsure which Domains to use and what feats to pick for levels 9, 12, 15 and 18. I'll first cover domains and then feats.


Having checked the Magic Compendium and Book of Exalted Deeds I've boiled it down to:
Celestial gives smite ability to cleric 1/day. Some decent spells. Gate at 9th
Travel access to teleport spells; wouldn’t have otherwise
Planning extend spell as bonus feat and time stop as 9th spell
Time imp initiative, permanency, contingency, Foresight and Timestop

Celestial would only be picked if starting below level 6 because the Smite Evil helps with the "paladin feel". Its a case of "Fluff trumps mechanics" for me. Unless you all feel it's better than the other options for some reason.
Teleport spells would be amazing utility that I wouldn't have access to normally.
Free Extend feat at level 1 would be great, since the earliest I'd have a free feat to pick this up is level 9 (level 6 if Human).
The Time Domain seems a great utility pick as well, but I'm a little "eh" about only having one 9th level spell to pick from for my domain slots since at level 20 I'll only have two 9th level spells and one 9th level domain spell.

So which 2 of the 4 do you think I should pick?

Below are my feats and what levels I don't have a feat for. Where a feat is listed it has to stay (unless I can get it earlier) due to needing them to get into Prestige Pally and Fist of Raziel.

1- Servant of the Heavens
3- Power Attack
6- Mounted Combat
9-
12-
15-
18-

My turning ability isn't amazing so feats that let me replace turning uses with something helpful and flavorful would be cool as well.

I'll also say that I am open to the whole DMM: Persist spell stuff if it's possible to pull off.

Full level outline below the bar. Skills listed are for beginning (to have an idea), right before jumping to a new class (so that I know I meet requirements) and at the end. Written assuming an Int of 10, just in case that ends up happening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cleric 6/Prestige Paladin 3/Fist of Raziel 10/Cleric 1
1 – Turn Undead, Aura of Good. 2 Domains. Level 1 spells. Know Rel. 2, know royalty 1, know ride 2 (0 int modifier). Feat: Servant of the Heavens
2-
3- Level 2 spells. Feat: Power Attack (need Str 13)
4-
5- 3rd level spells
6- BAB +4. Fort 5, Ref 2, Will 5. Know rel. 4, know royalty 2, ride 4, Concentration 2 (0 int modifier). Feat: Mounted Combat

Prestige Paladin
7- Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day. 4th level spells (note: with PP I now have access to all lvl 1 to 4 special divine paladin spells. Good timing right?)
8- Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Special Mount
9- BAB +7. Fort 8, Ref 3, Will 6. Diplomacy 5, know rel. 5, know royalty 2, ride 4, Concentration 2 (0 int modifier). Aura of Courage, Divine Health. Feat:

Fist of Raziel
10- Magic Circle, Smite Evil 2/day (good aligned)
11- 5th level spells
12- Smite Evil 3/day (confirming). Feat:
13- Sanctify Martial Strike. 6th level spells
14- Smite Evil 4/day (holy)
15- Sunder Evil Item. 7th level spells. Feat:
16- Smite Evil 5/day (fiendsmite)
17- 8th level spells
18- Smite Evil 6/day (chain). Feat:
19- BAB +17. Fort 15, Ref 6, Will 9. Diplomacy 5, know rel. 5, know royalty 2, ride 4, concentration 22 (0 int modifier). Holy Martial Strike. 9th level spells.

Cleric
20- +1BAB and 1 more 9th level spell

Greenish
2012-01-20, 04:01 PM
Replace some of the cleric levels with Church Inquisitor to spam at will Detect Evil like a boss paladin.

[Edit]: Oh, wait, PrC paladin gets that too. Well, do it anyway. Extra domain and the other goodies are worth it.

CodeRed
2012-01-20, 04:10 PM
Does Battle Blessing work with Paladin turned Cleric spells from Prestige Paladin? If so, definitely take that feat. Being able to swift action the really good Paladin spells is always great.

As to the using of Turn Undead, look to the Divine feats in Complete Warrior and Complete Divine. Divine Vigor is a good one and a favorite of mine for clerics/paladins that wear plate. Spend a turn attempt to get +10 move speed and 2 temp hp/level for minutes = Cha mod. Divine Might is also solid if you have a good Cha as it adds it to damage for a round for a turn attempt. Also, take a look at the Devotion feats in Complete Champion for other uses of turn attempts. Travel for example is really good. It works once a day and for a minute you get to move your speed as a swift action. If you spend two turn undead attempts though you get it use once more per day. If you want to burn all your turns on it, you can. All the Devotion feats are like that in that they give a benefit and then you can spend turns to get more uses/day.

Vemynal
2012-01-20, 04:55 PM
Let's say Battle Blessing does work but only for the spells given on the Paladin spell lists (yes I realize there is some over lap with cleric spells. Lets count those as qualifying as paladin spells since they are from that list).

It works as an AutoQuicken on level 1 to 4 paladin list spells; do you think that's worth it? I think it would be if only for the heals, buffs, etc.

Extended Bull's Strength as a Swift action lol

Ok so Battle Blessing is definitely a feat consideration. And thanks for the Devotion feats and the source. I forgot which book they were in =).

Any other useful Cleric/Paladin themed feats? Anyone wanna help me figure out how to get DMM: Persist on this guy?
Ideas over Domain choices?

Greenish
2012-01-20, 05:06 PM
Any other useful Cleric/Paladin themed feats?Awesome Smite (CChamp) has it's uses. Ignore (limited amount of) DR, ignore miss chances, free trips…


Anyone wanna help me figure out how to get DMM: Persist on this guy?Planning domain for Extend Spell, then just pick Persistent Spell and DMM (Persistent Spell) with normal feats?

Vemynal
2012-01-20, 06:22 PM
Domains and feats so far:

Planning Domain
_______ Domain (If under level 6, this will be the Celestial Domain)


Human
Domain: Extend spell
B- Power Attack
1- Servant of the Heavens
3- Mounted Combat
6- Battle Blessing
9- Persist spell
12- Divine Metamagic
15-
18-


For that last Domain spot, what do you think is better? Travel or Time?

Would you take Persist and DMM at level 6 and 9 to have full DMM: Persist by level 9? Or is it better to take Battle Blessing at level 6 so that at level 7 I'll be able to have an Autoquicken on a large number of my spells (I get 4th level spells at this level).

If Extra Turning can be used to fuel DMM: Persist for more free Persist spells would you suggest I take that for my level 15 and 18th feats? Or are there better options?

Edit- Can I Persist Time Stop?

CodeRed
2012-01-20, 06:31 PM
Personally I'm a fan of the Travel Domain especially because you can trade it's domain power for the Travel Devotion feat straight-up. One of the biggest problems I have always had as a plate wearing char is getting where I want to be when I need to be there. With Travel Devotion you can use your swift action to get a free second move on your turn for an entire combat (up to several combats a day by spending turn attempts).

Vemynal
2012-01-20, 07:19 PM
I went with the Time Domain as my other domain.

Still can't come to a decision on my level 15 and 18 feats if you guys have suggestions.

Or any help with Battle Blessing before DMM: Persist or after.

Tvtyrant
2012-01-20, 08:17 PM
I actually think the Cleric/Prestige Paladin/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator build is my favorite for really feeling like a Tier 1 Paladin. You are amazing in melee combat, you have good casting, and you can mess with the action economy like no ones business.