3.5 Unseelie Fey Template and Iron Vulnerability - Worth it?

[Unusual Muse]

Hello all...

I'm tweaking a build right now that's basically a sneak attacking melee type (via Thug SA variant), and flavor-wise I'm thinking about the Unseelie Fey template from Dragon Compendium. Specifically, I'm wondering if it's worth imposing Iron Vulnerability (an extra d6 of damage from iron/steel weapons) on a melee fighter in return for Darkvision, eventual DR/cold iron at higher levels.

It seems like most melee attacks are generally going to be iron/steel and thus cause that extra d6; is that too brutal a liability for someone who's going to be flanking a lot?

[Flickerdart]

An extra 3.5 damage matters at level 1 up to maybe 5, before you generally have enough HP to not give a damn anymore.

[tyckspoon]

At very low levels it's a bit painful. Once you have your DR, it largely stops mattering- between your better HP at higher levels and the DR negating almost all the extra damage, Unseelie Fey is all positives (especially if you are in fact allowed to choose to have functional wings and not forced by your DM to roll on the table with its ~40% chance of having no flight.)

Edit: And if you're really worried about it, take the Summer seasonal power- anything that is going to be wielding iron/steel against you, you'll have defensive bonuses against from the Magic Circle effect.

[Unusual Muse]

Yeah, we're starting from first level... :smallsmile:

[Unusual Muse]

And I should add, it's a reach build (Guisarme + Shorten Grip), so that might serve to keep some of the extra-damage-dealing attacks away for low-level survivability.

[DegenPaladin]

Im sure someone else would say it so Ill just get it out of the way. Either use armor or gauntlet spikes to attack adjacent squares, if you cant 5 foot step that is.

If your set on taking Shorten Grip you may as well take Proficiency with Spiked Chain. Strictly speaking its mechanically superior.

All that being said from a Mechanics standpoint, I think fighting with an actual Pole Arm is cooler then a spiked chain :P

[Unusual Muse]

Im sure someone else would say it so Ill just get it out of the way. Either use armor or gauntlet spikes to attack adjacent squares, if you cant 5 foot step that is.

Spiked Gauntlet is not optimal in combination with the two-handed weapon. As for Armor Spikes, this requires Two-Weapon Fighting to optimize since it's an off-hand weapon, and I wanted to use the feats for other things (specifically Combat Reflexes --> Vexing Flanker --> (eventually) Adaptable Flanker.


If your set on taking Shorten Grip you may as well take Proficiency with Spiked Chain. Strictly speaking its mechanically superior.

All that being said from a Mechanics standpoint, I think fighting with an actual Pole Arm is cooler then a spiked chain :P

Spiked Chain was, shall we say, heavily frowned upon to the point of being nixed in the campaign. In any case, I'm not sure if it's mechanically superior in any way; both setups require 1 feat to make them happen (EWP(SC) or Shorten Grip), and the in-game effects work out the same (the ability to threaten everything within 10'). That being said, I totally agree that fighting with a polearm is cooler! :smallsmile:

[Greenish]

As for Armor Spikes, this requires Two-Weapon Fighting to optimize since it's an off-hand weaponIt's not an off-hand weapon by default (nothing but shield bash is, and even that is only due to poor wording), it's a light weapon:

You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case.

[Unusual Muse]

It's not an off-hand weapon by default (nothing but shield bash is, and even that is only due to poor wording), it's a light weapon:

It's an off-hand weapon if you're holding a spiked chain or a guisarme, unless for some strange reason you are using the armor spikes as your primary weapon and the spiked chain/guisarme is your off-hand weapon.

[Greenish]

It's an off-hand weapon if you're holding a spiked chain or a guisarme, unless for some strange reason you are using the armor spikes as your primary weapon and the spiked chain/guisarme is your off-hand weapon.You don't have an off-hand weapon if you're not TWFing.

You use the armour spikes as your only weapon if you have someone too close to hit with a reach weapon and can't 5' step. In that case, you're most certainly not using it as an offhand weapon, since you're not even trying to use any other weapon.

Just holding another weapon doesn't automatically relate armour spikes into offhand weapon, since the descriptor is meaningless outside the specific TWF action.

[Coidzor]

Otherwise having armor spikes, a spiked shield in one hand, a braidblade(or 5), boot knives, knee blades, elbow blades, and a sword in one's other hand would allow a human to use multiweapon fighting.

edit: I forgot about spending a feat or two and getting a bite attack for a mouthpick weapon, sorry.

[Helldog]

Otherwise having armor spikes, a spiked shield in one hand, a braidblade(or 5), boot knives, knee blades, elbow blades, and a sword in one's other hand would allow a human to use multiweapon fighting.
And we know that melee can't have nice things.
If they were afraid that PCs would have too many attacks why didn't they just make a rule that you can use only 2 weapons plus one additional weapon per 5 levels/BaB? :smallannoyed:


It seems like most melee attacks are generally going to be iron/steel and thus cause that extra d6; is that too brutal a liability for someone who's going to be flanking a lot?
Err... Cold iron is totally different from iron/steel. It's a special material.

[sreservoir]

And we know that melee can't have nice things.
If they were afraid that PCs would have too many attacks why didn't they just make a rule that you can use only 2 weapons plus one additional weapon per 5 levels/BaB? :smallannoyed:


Err... Cold iron is totally different from iron/steel. It's a special material.

it's iron vulnerability, not cold iron.

[Unusual Muse]

To get things back on-topic... I just discovered the Healer's Belt, which I had (surprisingly) never heard of before; I think that will keep me alive through levels 1-4 until the DR kicks in to absorb the extra damage. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

^: It's a good thing. The Magic Item Compendium healing armor property, or at least the first level of it, isn't too overpriced for what benefit it gets, believe it gets steadily worse as one goes up that chain of improvements though, but at least they're flat costs.
And we know that melee can't have nice things.
If they were afraid that PCs would have too many attacks why didn't they just make a rule that you can use only 2 weapons plus one additional weapon per 5 levels/BaB? :smallannoyed:

Well, it would be really, really expensive to keep that many weapons up to snuff. Most totemist/natural weapons builds either rely upon a bard cohort, essentia invested, or an amulet of mighty fists +1 or maybe +2 because even a necklace of natural attacks is too expensive to get decent properties on all their natural weapons.