[3.5] Treasure

[SillySymphonies]

Many monsters advance by adding class levels (see the Monster Manual). To determine treasure for monsters with class levels, first give them equipment. Use Table 4–23: NPC Gear Value (page 127) and use just their class levels to determine the value of their equipment. Then generate their treasure according to their monster entry and the rules under Building a Treasure, below. This may generate more items that the monster can use, and that’s fine (see Custom Treasures, below).

NPCs may have treasure in addition to their gear, at your discretion, but an NPC’s gear is already worth about three times the average value of a treasure of his or her level.

If you choose to equip a monster with gear, use its ECL as its character level for purposes of determining how much equipment it can purchase. Generally, only monsters with an Advancement entry of “By character class” receive NPC gear; other creatures adding character levels should be treated as monsters of the appropriate CR and assigned treasure, not equipment.
Some of this information is mutually exclusive: do monsters with class levels use their class levels or ECL to determine the worth of their gear? And do they recieve treasure on top of that, or only at the DM's discretion?

[sonofzeal]

Er, as with the xp tables, you're far better off doing it yourself. I love giving my players cool and awesome stuff, and it doesn't matter if it's in the books or not, or what the list price is.

Case in point - I recently gave a lvl7 character a +2 merciful ghost touch throwing returning rapier. I think the list price there is somewhere around 72,000gp. I gave it to them because most of those enchants are not remotely worth their list price. Nonlethal damage doesn't affect many things and is easily removed by things it affects. Ghost Touch rarely comes up and really only gets rid of a situational annoyance. Throwing and Returning together only allow a single mediocre attack. It's still a good sword for that part of the game, but should hardly break the bank the way it does.

Accept wish lists from your players. Then dole out things to help shore up weak points. not according to random tables. Err on the side of generosity to be sure, but don't get all hung up on the details as long as players arn't attempting to abuse your generosity.

[Kol Korran]

i hate the DMG's tables. not worth crap. :smallannoyed:

my normal way of treasure allocation is something like this:
- by whatever system you wish, determine the totla wealth that is supposed to be gained till next level.

- distribute most of it (about 75%) between potential various encounters on the way. have a list with value to each encounter.

- plan a final reward- either for big boss, or reward for doing the job or anything else. this should be big- about 25% of the whole lot.

- let the party do it's thing- some encounters will be dealt with, some circumvented, some new unprepared encounters had. (for the last type you can either choose no reward, minimal "needed so encounter will function" reward, or a reward from one of the unused encounters.

- at the end, when reaching the final reward, add to it any of the rewards that weren't used, increasing the hoard.

- if yoe ere, as the previous poster said- ere on the side of generosity. you can "fix" things later slowly over time so not to be a cheap bastard.

[hisnamehere]

And really, if a monster can get Wealth By Level, plus monster CR-appropriate treasure, I'm going to play a monster every time. :-)

While I'm on the side of generosity, something to look out for on the flip-side is encounters with enemies that have Wealth By Level that you feel will be too much treasure for your PCs. Try to give those guys things that are expendable (potions, wands), unusable (evil-aligned items), or undesirable (lots of low-magic items, such as +1 longsword, while the PCs have +2 or better magic weapons).
I've found that if I don't take that into consideration, the PCs can end up with a monty haul.

Delving a bit further, as a player, I don't appreciate undeserved wealth. I have this one DM (new-ish) who always ends up giving the characters' their wildest dreams by about 3rd level...which we usually reach after about 5 encounters during the first adventure.
I enjoy working for my rewards. That old saying of "we appreciate only that which we earn" has it right. If your fighter slays a random goblin and recovers the long-lost Sword of the Aegis, (s)he's not going to appreciate it as much as when (s)he acquires that sword thru questing and physical trials.

Just sayin'.

Happy gaming,

[ericgrau]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he's asking about the total amount of treasure not the type.

Monsters use normal treasure (that is, whatever it says in their monster entry). Monsters or NPCs with PC class levels are elite challenges that use NPC wealth instead, which is higher than normal treasure. They also use the elite array for their ability scores rather than the standard ability scores in their monster entry. Which encounters involve elite opponents? That's up to you. Typically only special foes are elite. For example in OotS any reoccurring enemy with a name is probably elite.

[SillySymphonies]

Thanks for the answers thus far, but they don't really answer my questions. I'll try and clarify. :smallsmile:

DMG p51 claims that monsters with class levels use their class level to determine gear value; MM p291 claims that monsters with class levels use their ECL to determine gear value. These statements are mutually exclusive. Which is true?

DMG p51 implies monsters with class levels normally get treasure on top of their gear; DMG p55 states that this only happens in exceptional cases. Which is true?

I'm well aware of the problems with 3.5.
Please adress my questions as if I was asking for rule clarifications.
Thank you. :smallsmile:

[ericgrau]

It is possible to advance monsters by class levels without making them elite. Those use treasure as appropriate for their new CR (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#advancedMonsterChallengeRati ng). Normal monsters use either the nonelite array (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#noneliteArray) or 10's and 11's for their ability scores and these numbers are already in their monster entry.

Elite monsters (typically with PC class levels) and elite NPCs get NPC wealth by level based on their ECL. They also get the elite array (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#eliteArray) for their ability scores, which means you have to change the ability scores in the monster entry when making an elite monster.

I believe "based on class level" means it changes depending on class level. You don't use class level ONLY to determine weath, you use it plus something else to find ECL. You use only one of the two options above; you don't add one thing to another.