De-epicizing feats, and Fochlucan Lyrist/Arcane Hierophant?

[Mindstab_Thrull]

Part the first:
So, some time ago I was flipping through the Epic-Level Handbook and looking over the feats. I found a few that I would love to "de-epic" - as in, make them available to characters that aren't past 20th level (or hit dice or whatever). That being said, I want them to still feel like you have to "reach" to get there. For example, there's a few Epic feats that require you to cast 9th-level spells. The earliest you can get there typically is 17th level, and the Ur-Priest still needs to be I think 14th level to get them. How about adding 20 ranks in Spellcraft to the requirement? You then still need a feat available, which then means 18th level or higher. Martial-based classes could have BAB +16 or higher as a requirement, and so on. In other words, give the feats "non-Epic but epic-feeling" requirements as an option to being 21st level or higher.

Part the second:
I was looking at the Arcane Hierophant and wondering what other prestige classes raise both arcane and divine spellcasting. Apparently there's four: Arcane Hierophant, Mystic Theurge, True Necromancer (sorta - 14 levels, +12 to both), and the Fochlucan Lyrist. I then realized that the Bard meets its maximum spellcasting level earlier than the other arcane classes (6ths at 16th). So what I'm wondering is if there's a way to get 6th level Bard spells and 9th level Druid spells using the Hierophant and the Lyrist prestige classes on the same character?

Mindstab Thrull
Mmmmmmm.. sanities!!

[Yora]

Let's see. I have Races of the Wild and Fochulan Lyricist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) is thankfully online.

For AH you need 3 levels of Druid for Trackless Step and for FL you need to be 10th level for 13 Ranks in Perform.

Druid 3/Bard 4 seems to be the earliest to enter AH. Since this is about Spellcasting, wasting 3 Skill points for cross class ranks in Perform seems better than another level of Bard.
However, for FH you also need Evasion, which is another 2 levels in Rogue. That means a loss in 4 levels of spellcasting, which I think makes the whole thing rather impractical.

You could make Druid 3/Bard 4/AH 10, which is Druid casting 13th level and Bard casting 14th level.
You could add 4 levels of Druid for 9th level druid spells or 2 levels of druid and 2 levels of Bard for 6th level bard spells and 8th level druid spells.

Bard 4/Druid 3/AH 10/Rogue 2/FH2 and Bard 6/Druid 5/AH 10 would have the same spellcasting. But the later means +2 Caster Level for both sides.

[Urpriest]

For Fochluchan Lyrist it all depends on how cheaty you want to get Evasion. If you're cool with 3.0 there's a class (Spelldancer IIRC) that advances casting and gives Evasion at first. If you're cool with soulmelds meeting prereqs, grab the Impulse Boots and open the relevant chakra. And if you're cool with items giving prereqs, just get a Ring of Evasion. Look at the Fochluchan Lyrist handbook, it's got quite a few sample builds for pretty much any rules preference, including many that get 6th Bard (or even 9th with Sublime Chord).

For De-Epic-ing feats, some Epic feats don't deserve to be Epic at all. Your idea seems fine in general, as long as you restrict things to BAB and Spellcasting/Skill Ranks rather than onerous feat chains. Don't allow Multispell or Epic Spellcasting, and most of the others should be ok.

[Yora]

If you take 1 level in a prestige class instead of 2 levels Rogue, you can get a 3rd level of FL into it, but that would not get you access to any more spell levels.
Only a super cheesy feat that gets you evasion would work, and I don't know if that exist. Or get the DM to allow a ring of evasion to qualify. In Pathfinder, that would be legal by RAW, I think.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

For De-Epic-ing feats, some Epic feats don't deserve to be Epic at all. Your idea seems fine in general, as long as you restrict things to BAB and Spellcasting/Skill Ranks rather than onerous feat chains. Don't allow Multispell or Epic Spellcasting, and most of the others should be ok.

Sure, I don't plan on de-Epic-ing all of them. Some of them should stay Epic, but I mean.. Armor Skin is the first one I can think of that offends my sensibilities. Really, I have to be 21st level if I want (for example) an Elf with natural armor? In Savage Species I could get that from any race that had a Con of 20 - which a Dwarf could hit at first level (amongst other races). And a Kobold already gets natural armor. (Yes, I see it gives +2 to NAC and not +1. My issue tends to be with core races not being able to get NAC at all apart from magic items unless they already have it. Armor Skin is the only one that I've found that anyone can get at any time - but you need to be Epic for it.)

Requirements that are already high I'll just leave as is. For example, Improved Elemental Wild Shape requires Wisdom 25 and the ability to wild shape into an Elemental. The wild shape ability in question requires 16th-level Druid ability to begin with, and your next feat isn't until 18th level, by which point you can become an elemental twice a day. So with a base of 18 Wisdom (not counting racial or other permanent bonuses along the way), you'll probably still need another three points coming from something else - an inherent bonus, perhaps. Obviously there's some that will need requirements created for them, such as Armor Skin above - perhaps starting with Toughness and a Con of 25 would be sufficient, and it doesn't stack with itself until you hit Epic.

Does the Spelldancer advance both casting, or just one (likely arcane)?

[Urpriest]

Spelldancer advances either arcane or divine. Looks like you need two levels of it to get Evasion though. It requires 3rd level spells, some skills and some crappy feats.

[Helldog]

Green Whisperer advances both Druid and Bard spellcasting. Dragon... #311 I think?