What happens when you lose a prereq?

[danzibr]

So I'm reading ToB somewhat thoroughly for the first time, in particular the replacing old maneuvers at even levels. Say at level 8 I learn a maneuver which requires knowing 1 White Raven maneuver/stance (I'm thinking Tactics of the Wolf), then at level 10 I swap out my original White Raven maneuver/stance. Can I still use Tactics of the Wolf?

From what I've read I don't see anything to indicate that I can no longer use Tactics of the Wolf, but I'm uncertain.

Furthermore, is there an order in which learning new maneuvers and swapping out old ones happen? For instance, if I *can* still use Tactics of the Wolf in the above scenario, on level 8 can I both learn Tactics of the Wolf *and* switch out my original White Raven maneuver/stance?

[Greenish]

There are no prerequisites for using maneuvers. Only for learning them.

[Edit]: And you can't swap stances.

[danzibr]

There are no prerequisites for using maneuvers. Only for learning them.

[Edit]: And you can't swap stances.
Great, thanks. I'll put my build up soon.

Any word on the learning and then switching?

[tyckspoon]

Any word on the learning and then switching?

No explicit order, I'm afraid. They both happen in the same step of the official leveling process (the rather broad 'get new special class features', which covers basically everything that isn't directly HD-derived like BAB and HP) and they're both part of the same special class feature anyway. You can either default to the principle of arranging stuff in the order that works best for you where it matters, or you can go down the exact order the Maneuvers feature is written in (this is probably closest to RAW, such as it is for this situation.) In that case, the text detailing how and when you can do maneuver swaps comes after the text telling you to learn new maneuvers, so you can do it the way you proposed.

(Note that even if your GM requires you to keep the prerequisite number of maneuvers to maintain a particular maneuver [not technically required, but just about every other prereq in the game works like this so it might be carried over] your new maneuver is never actually unsupported. You have Maneuver A of the White Raven school. You wish to learn Maneuver B, which has a requirement of '1 White Raven Maneuver'. Not a problem, you've got A, so that's covered. You learn B. You now have 2 White Raven Maneuvers. You now swap out A for an Iron Heart maneuver. Does B no longer meet the prerequisites? No. You still have 1 White Raven Maneuver- B itself. The prerequisites at no point say '1 OTHER maneuver'- once you have obtained it, a maneuver can be its own prerequisite.)

[danzibr]

Ahh I see. So the only problem would be if I wanted to do something like:

2 known WR, acquire one that requires 2
and
switch out old WR with a TC or something

So while the newly acquired would meet the prereqs after learning it (though as Greenish said, this really isn't important), it may or may not at the time, depending on the DM, I suppose.

I think there are enough options to play it safe, so I'll try that.

[Anxe]

You should definitely check with you DM first regardless of it being okay by RAW.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For most feats or PrC's, if you lose the prereq, you lose access to whatever you lost the prereq for. If it's a PrC, you lose all class abilities, if it's a feat then you can't use it until you get the prereq back.

Maneuvers are... somewhat different. It has prereqs for learning, not for using. So, theoretically, as long as you don't forget it, you won't lose it. However, your GM may play by the same rule that feats and PrC's fall under and say you can't use it until you meet prereqs again.

Talk to your GM.

[kulosle]

Where does it say that you lose the class abilities of PrC that you loose the prerequisites for?

[Psyren]

Where does it say that you lose the class abilities of PrC that you loose the prerequisites for?

Complete Arcane and Complete Warrior; whether that applies to other books is up to your DM.