[3.5/PF] Box of arrows trick.

[Doorhandle]

First off, read THIS (http://****yeahpathfinder.tumblr.com/post/895645098/5-ballista-bolts-telekinesis-15d8-damage) and THIS. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/31/episode-1089-special-delivery/)

According to the description of the spell telekinesis, any bolt or arrow launched works as a dagger of its size, and you can launch up to 15 objects at once. So, I was thinking: if you got 15 or so Bolts, sized for a colossal creature, and fit them into a bag of holding, you could use telekinesis to launch them for about 45d6 damage total or 3d6 damage each. Now, I have two (DISREGUARD THIS I AM A NEBBISH) a few questions:

1: Would it be worthwhile to do the same trick with alchemist's fire for a whole lot of fire/splash damage?
2. If I am an arcane trickster and I do this, would I get to add sneak attack damage?
3. How much cheese is this? Is it a worthwhile tactic?
4.Could it be repeated with a ring of telekinisis?

[Manateee]

That's an interesting way to count to 2. :smalltongue:

Ammunition deals damage as appropriately sized daggers, so it's actually 3d6 for colossal weapons.

1.
Delivering acid flasks &c. with it could be a nice way to get a bit of extra burst damage out at mid-levels, depending on your group's treatment of wealth.

2.
Though it involves multiple attack rolls and thus doesn't count as a volley, I believe it would fall under CArcane's limitations on "weaponlike" spells striking "multiple times in the same round" - reducing it to one iteration of sneak attack damage.

Given that we're talking about inexpensively generating 150d6 damage/standard action all day (no save), I don't think this merits debate over telekinesis's qualification as a "weaponlike spell" (which would otherwise be my point of contention), unless you're looking at a very high op game.

3.
Given that its damage progresses at the same rate as the orb spells, it has a harder time dealing with energy resistance, it has no tagalong effect, takes a higher-level slot and it costs gp, I'd hesitate to use this as a main combat tactic. If you have a way to draw 15 flasks at once though, it could be useful for keeping a psion-like flexibility. I wouldn't prepare more than one lot of telekinesis for it anyway.

4.
Yes. But with that price tag and only CL 9, it's a seriously overpriced trick.

[Slipperychicken]

Bear in mind that you're relying on normal attack rolls for these arrows/bolts, so many defenses (AC, miss chance, and otherwise) will apply to them, and they will be subject to the things that make archery bad in 3.5 (such as Wind Wall and Friendly Fire). You also need DM-cooperation for reliable access to gargantuan-sized arrows or bolts.

[Doorhandle]

Well, I was thinking it's only acceptable for use as an opening mauver anyway, just a really funny one. Something to get it on the welch’s lists, anyway.

As for getting some, I could just say "I'm using ballista bolts" or get enough ranks in craft: weponary in order to create them myself. If all else fails, I could hunt down some storm giants or the like and steal THEIR stuff.

And, in my book, with FITFTEEEN arrows? Any d20 miss chance is just an opportunity to crit.

[ericgrau]

Bear in mind that you're relying on normal attack rolls for these arrows/bolts, so many defenses (AC, miss chance, and otherwise) will apply to them, and they will be subject to the things that make archery bad in 3.5 (such as Wind Wall and Friendly Fire). You also need DM-cooperation for reliable access to gargantuan-sized arrows or bolts.
The main obstacles are AC, cover and arguably shooting into melee. So actual damage won't be as high as you might think due to misses, but at least energy resistance doesn't apply and you could have your bag of cold iron bolts, bag of silver bolts, etc. for dealing with DR. Heck perhaps at very high levels you could enchant the bolts for bonus damage, or get bane bolts.

Wind wall is way too sucky to be a threat to archery, because it affects a narrow range of attacks (and thus is usually a wasted spell slot until that one day finally comes), must be cast in response rather than staying up all day, and there are easy ways to work around it in most battlefield layouts. In other words usually you won't prepare it, you'll get shot anyway, then you'll lose a turn to cast it, then the archer (or telekinetic weapon flinger) will still find another way to shoot anyway (switch targets, walk through the wall, etc.), then other foes will still attack you while you waste your turn.

There is similar logic for why dominate monster is a good 9th level spell and yet protection from evil is a mediocre 1st level spell even though it stops domination.

Friendly fire was 3.0 not 3.5, it went away.

[Doorhandle]

Excellent points, but I just thought up a much worse and sillyer better idea.

Launch a bag of shrunk wights.

They still take negative levels when thrown as a projectile, right?:smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, any light creatures that would make decent projectiles? let's expand this bag of tricks.

[Curious]

Excellent points, but I just thought up a better idea.

Launch a bag of shrunk wights.

They still take negative levels when thrown as a projectile, right?

If you could get them to ready an action to attack when launched at an enemy.

[Doorhandle]

They'd have to be dominated or controlled to be kept in the bag in the first place, so I think it could be done, with to-hit penaties.