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motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 12:15 PM
Welcome one and all to the second zinc saucier challenge, where playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful:smallwink:) builds.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the secret ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For this first challenge get ready to call out your daily specials as its the Player's handbook's Bard

Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Bard without actually using any levels in it.
Entries Must be submitted by 6th Feburary 5:00PM GMT

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)


Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.
Sauciers can submit as many builds as they want but please dont use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges:smalltongue:


Also it comes with double prize money.:smallbiggrin:

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)


EDIT: please dont just use prestige Bard, you'll tank your creativity score:smalltongue:

The Underlord
2012-01-22, 12:54 PM
This could be fun. But I want to judge, if possible.

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 12:55 PM
Okay I'll put you down for judging.

The Underlord
2012-01-22, 01:00 PM
For this first challenge get ready to call out your daily specials as its the Player's handbook's Bard

Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a soulknife without actually using any levels in it.:

huh? copy and paste error :smalltongue:

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 01:11 PM
huh? copy and paste error :smalltongue:

Okay, fixed now:smalltongue:

DonutBoy12321
2012-01-22, 01:23 PM
Is there any format for entries?

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 01:29 PM
Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Yeah, as long as we can see how the build was built it shouldn't matter too much if you dont have it all in tables or whatnot.

DarthPeleus
2012-01-22, 01:32 PM
Are we trying to mimic the exact class features or the "flavor" of a bard?

Will any, swashbuckling, inspiringly handsome jolly adventurer type do? Or does it have to be more specific?

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 01:37 PM
Are we trying to mimic the exact class features or the "flavor" of a bard?

Will any, swashbuckling, inspiringly handsome jolly adventurer type do? Or does it have to be more specific?

You get points for capturing both the "feel" of the bard as well as its abilities(or similar ones anyways) try looking up zeratul&the emperor's new soulknife from the first contest for an idea of what I'm talking about

The Underlord
2012-01-22, 01:44 PM
Captureing at least some of the feel of the bard espeically the musical part(poetry works or any perform skill, I couldn't think of a better term) will be relevant to me.

grarrrg
2012-01-22, 01:47 PM
I don't plan on entering, but can we all assume that Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) won't be allowed?
:smalltongue:

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 01:48 PM
EDIT: please dont just use prestige Bard, you'll tank your creativity score:smalltongue:


I don't plan on entering, but can we all assume that Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) won't be allowed?
:smalltongue:

EDIT NINJA'd:smalltongue:

grarrrg
2012-01-22, 02:02 PM
EDIT NINJA'd:smalltongue:

Actually your edited time beat mine, so the NINJA'd is on me:smalltongue:

And for good measure:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 02:11 PM
Actually your edited time beat mine, so the NINJA'd is on me:smalltongue:

And for good measure:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

Thats what I meant.
P.S::tongue::tongue::tongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2012-01-22, 03:34 PM
Mmm... finding a source of Bardic Music is surprisingly difficult. This'll be interesting.

I don't know if I'm going to be a contestant or a judge yet, but I'm definitely going to be involved as this unfolds...

Enterti
2012-01-22, 03:49 PM
Minor nitpick, optimization has a z not an s. Also the Iron chef/desert challenges use roman numerals rather than arabic.

That said I'm interested in seeing how this one turns out, hopefully the builds will all actually be trying to accomplish the goal unlike last time.

Coidzor
2012-01-22, 03:54 PM
Hmm, finding a source of bardic music that won't tank one's creativity score for using warrior skald(and counting off for using 3.0 material to boot :/) or prestige bard or tank one's material used score by using heartfire fanner from dragon magazine is going to be tough.

Interesting concept though.

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 03:55 PM
Minor nitpick, optimization has a z not an s. Also the Iron chef/desert challenges use roman numerals rather than arabic.

That said I'm interested in seeing how this one turns out, hopefully the builds will all actually be trying to accomplish the goal unlike last time.

Ah but that the Zinc Saucier spirit, Dare to be Different(also I havent slept in 48hrs, get off my case:smalltongue:)

I'm also really quite interested to see what people come up with.

Just remember It doesn't have to replicate all of the class abilities and most importantly, have fun!

Derjuin
2012-01-22, 04:50 PM
So we just PM to you our entries, right? I've never really participated in one of these challenges before...

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 05:16 PM
So we just PM to you our entries, right? I've never really participated in one of these challenges before...
Yup.

That's alright, this is only the second time I've really participated in one.
friggin "real life" and computer viruses stopping me from submitting:smallmad:

Jheska
2012-01-22, 05:19 PM
Colour me intrigued as a contestant. Build is finished, just doing write ups, explanations and rounding out backstory.

motoko's ghost
2012-01-22, 05:33 PM
Excellent! looking forwards to it.:smallbiggrin:

EDIT: received the first build, Forwarded it to the underlord(as the builds are submitted/new people volunteer to judge I'll send on the build to the judges ASAP/send all the builds so far to them)

The Gilded Duke
2012-01-25, 07:42 PM
I have the build mostly fleshed out, just need to work on flavor and such. Trying to avoid making another Demonblade.

smasher0404
2012-01-25, 09:00 PM
I'm getting a build under way, it even gets all of the bards features in without bard

kulosle
2012-01-25, 10:18 PM
I don't know if I will be involved in anyway due to time restraint but I look forward to the results. I do have a small idea for a character. If I get inspired then I'll join.

Oh question: If we replicate a specific type of bard such as one focusing on spell casting, support, melee, etc, would I lose points? Or should I being trying to replicate the basic overall bard?

motoko's ghost
2012-01-25, 11:41 PM
I don't know if I will be involved in anyway due to time restraint but I look forward to the results. I do have a small idea for a character. If I get inspired then I'll join.

Oh question: If we replicate a specific type of bard such as one focusing on spell casting, support, melee, etc, would I lose points? Or should I being trying to replicate the basic overall bard?

As long as I can see that you've attempted to create a bard build and as long as you manage to capture most of the bard abilities, you'll do fine.

DementedFellow
2012-01-26, 12:22 AM
So I can think of a base class that has abilities that would cover most of the bards abilities. Are you looking for a cool and inventive way to get the abilities of the bard without taking levels in bard or the abilities to act like a bard without being one?

Coidzor
2012-01-26, 12:23 AM
I have the build mostly fleshed out, just need to work on flavor and such. Trying to avoid making another Demonblade.

Demonblade, eh? Rather auspicious name, that.

IdleMuse
2012-01-26, 07:47 PM
In as a contestant, I just love this contest. Replicating class features using obscure content is like, what I do in builds even without prizes.

I'll be up for judging if I can't put decide on what build to submit, for this and future incarnations.

Also, Optimisation is spelt with an S where I'm from...

The Gilded Duke
2012-01-26, 08:00 PM
Demonblade, eh? Rather auspicious name, that.

One of my entries last time. Focused too much on power, and only had a vague resemblance to soulknife and it ended up getting a poor response. Combined planar binding rules with the possession rules from Eberron and Vile Darkness to force demons into his weapons, getting the whole shifting weapons abilities of the soulknife, but besides that was just a built for power DMM Cleric.

Coidzor
2012-01-26, 08:40 PM
Let's compromise and spell it with an ess and a zed. :smallbiggrin: Vive la Optimiszation!

The Gilded Duke
2012-01-26, 11:04 PM
Trying to fix bugged thread.

motoko's ghost
2012-01-27, 02:34 AM
Let's compromise and spell it with an ess and a zed. :smallbiggrin: Vive la Optimiszation!

OK, I'm happy with that:smalltongue:

motoko's ghost
2012-01-28, 09:44 AM
Ok received the second build and sent it to the underlord.

Also to the individual who made the build in question, I dont know whether to mark you up or down for that:tongue:, you know what I'm talking about:smallamused:

The Underlord
2012-01-30, 06:51 PM
So, as a judge, can I give partial scores(like giving someone 3.5 for example)

Cieyrin
2012-01-30, 08:00 PM
So, as a judge, can I give partial scores(like giving someone 3.5 for example)

It flies in Iron Chef, I don't see why Zinc Saucier would be against non-whole number scores.

motoko's ghost
2012-01-30, 08:01 PM
So, as a judge, can I give partial scores(like giving someone 3.5 for example)

Yes, yes you can.

Also if anyone else wants to judge or submit a build please let me know. You can just put a small message in the thread.

smasher0404
2012-01-30, 08:37 PM
I'm Still in just have to make times to write out skill point assignment.

IdleMuse
2012-02-01, 10:15 PM
I am gonna submit, just need time to type it up and fluff it out :smallamused:

motoko's ghost
2012-02-03, 08:31 PM
Just received the third build, they're all very different(which should make judging fun)

ShneekeyTheLost
2012-02-04, 12:02 PM
I have an idea, but I don't know if it will pan out. It will be decidedly tongue-in-cheek, as any spoony bard should be.

Edit: Submitted

motoko's ghost
2012-02-05, 07:14 AM
About a day left for submissions (gah I hate working in GMT, freakin timezones)

Hand_of_Vecna
2012-02-05, 02:16 PM
What do the submissions look like/ what is a submission expected to be? I know that in Iron chef the winners and highest rated entries generally have (excellent) short stories explaining levels and feats as representing stages of a characters life. I can't see myself doing that here since the goal of this competition seems to be to create a character that fluff wise could have been a bard 20 and that ideally would seem like a powerful bard at the table.

edit: silly me I just answered my question by looking at the previous competition. Looks to be in line with what I'd want to put forth.

motoko's ghost
2012-02-06, 03:24 PM
Okay, the deadlines past and I've left a few hours for any last minute submissions so the time for submissions has no closed I'll post the builds we have below.



Sreiska of the Stars




The Build

CG Illumian (NaenVaul) Beguiler 7/Loredelver 3/Troubadour of Stars 10



Attributes:

32 Point Buy
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 14
Cha: 14

After levelup:
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 19 (+1 @ Level 12, 16, 20)
Wis: 15 (+1 @ Level 4)
Cha: 15 (+1 @ Level 8)

With items:
Str: 14 (+6 Belt of Magnificence)
Dex: 18 (+6 Belt of Magnificence)
Con: 18 (+6 Belt of Magnificence)
Int: 30 (+6 Belt of Magnificence, +5 Tome of Clear Thought)
Wis: 21 (+6 Belt of Magnificence)
Cha: 21 (+6 Belt of Magnificence)
Belt assumed to be obtained at level 20.
Tome assumed to be obtained at level 14 and immediately read.

Levelup Table:

{table=head]Level|Class Level|BAB|Fortitude|Reflex|Will|Class Ability Gained|Spellcasting level|Feats/Special
1|Beguiler 1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Armored Mage, Trapfinding|Beguiler 1|City Slicker (Races of Destiny), Naen sigil
2|Beguiler 2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Cloaked Casting (+1 DC), surprise casting|Beguiler 2|Vael sigil
3|Beguiler 3|+1|+1|+1|+3|Advanced learning (serene visage)|Beguiler 3|Still Spell
4|Beguiler 4|+2|+1|+1|+4|-|Beguiler 4|-
5|Beguiler 5|+2|+1|+1|+4|Silent Spell (bonus feat)|Beguiler 5|-
6|Beguiler 6|+3|+2|+2|+5|Surprise casting (move)|Beguiler 6|Invisible Spell (Cityscape)
7|Beguiler 7|+3|+2|+2|+5|Advanced learning (shadow cache)|Beguiler 7|-
8|Loredelver 1|+4|+2|+3|+6|Bardic knowledge, magical insight|Beguiler 7|-
9|Loredelver 2|+4|+3|+3|+6|Detect Magic|Beguiler 8|Knight of Stars (Book of Exalted Deeds)
10|Loredelver 3|+5|+3|+4|+7|Evasion|Beguiler 9|-
11|Troubadour of Stars 1|+5|+3|+4|+7|Bardic Music, Detect Evil|Beguiler 9|-
12|Troubadour of Stars 2|+6|+4|+5|+8|Holy cacophony, celestial spells|Beguiler 10|Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds)
13|Troubadour of Stars 3|+7|+4|+5|+8|Starmantle|Beguiler 10|-
14|Troubadour of Stars 4|+8|+4|+6|+9|-|Beguiler 11|-
15|Troubadour of Stars 5|+8|+5|+6|+9|Song of Hope|Beguiler 11|Extra Music (Complete Adventurer)
16|Troubadour of Stars 6|+9|+5|+7|+10|Sanctified spells|Beguiler 12|-
17|Troubadour of Stars 7|+10|+5|+7|+10|Eladrin form|Beguiler 12|-
18|Troubadour of Stars 8|+11|+6|+8|+11|-|Beguiler 13|Metamagic Song (Races of Stone)
19|Troubadour of Stars 9|+11|+6|+8|+11|Celestial Symphony|Beguiler 13|-
20|Troubadour of Stars 10|+12|+6|+9|+12|Celestial Ascension|Beguiler 14|-[/table]

Skills:

Total:
Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 23 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 23 ranks, Diplomacy 23 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 23 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 14 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 23 ranks, Spellcraft 23 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 18 ranks

By levelup:


1st: Bluff 4 ranks, Decipher Script 4 ranks, Disable Device 4 ranks, Hide 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 2 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks, Use Magic Device 4 ranks
2nd: Bluff 5 ranks, Decipher Script 5 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 2.5 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 5 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 5 ranks
3rd: Bluff 6 ranks, Decipher Script 6 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 2 ranks (CC), Perform (woodwind) 3 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 6 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 6 ranks
4th: Bluff 7 ranks, Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 7 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 3 ranks (CC), Perform (woodwind) 3.5 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 7 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 6 ranks
5th: Bluff 8 ranks, Decipher Script 8 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 4 ranks (CC), Perform (woodwind) 4 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 8 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 8 ranks
6th: Bluff 9 ranks, Decipher Script 9 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 9 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 4.5 ranks (CC), Perform (woodwind) 4.5 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 9 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks, Use Magic Device 9 ranks
7th: Bluff 10 ranks, Decipher Script 10 ranks, Disable Device 5 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5 ranks (CC), Perform (woodwind) 5 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 10 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 10 ranks
8th: Bluff 10.5 ranks (CC), Climb 1 rank, Decipher Script 11 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 11 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 6 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 5.5 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 11 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 10.5 ranks (CC)
9th: Bluff 11 ranks (CC), Climb 4 ranks, Decipher Script 11 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 12 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 7 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 6 ranks (CC), Spellcraft 12 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 11 ranks (CC)
10th: Balance 5 ranks, Bluff 11.5 ranks (CC), Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 11 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 13 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 8 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 6 ranks, Spellcraft 13 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 11 ranks
11th: Balance 5 ranks, Bluff 12.5 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 12 ranks, Diplomacy 2 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 14 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 1 rank, Perform (woodwind) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 14 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 11 ranks
12th: Balance 5 ranks, Bluff 13.5 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 12 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 15 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 3 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 10 ranks, Spellcraft 15 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
13th: Balance 5 ranks, Bluff 14.5 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 13 ranks, Diplomacy 6 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 16 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 9 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 13 ranks, Spellcraft 15 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
14th: Balance 5 ranks, Bluff 15.5 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 14 ranks, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 17 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 10 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 15 ranks, Spellcraft 17 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
15th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 18 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 15 ranks, Diplomacy 9 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 18 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 10 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 16 ranks, Spellcraft 18 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
16th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 19 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 17 ranks, Diplomacy 13 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 19 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 10 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 17 ranks, Spellcraft 19 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
17th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 20 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 20 ranks, Diplomacy 16 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 20 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 17 ranks, Spellcraft 19 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
18th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 21 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 21 ranks, Diplomacy 17 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 21 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 12 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 21 ranks, Spellcraft 21 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
19th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 22 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 22 ranks, Diplomacy 22 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 22 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 14 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 22 ranks, Spellcraft 22 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 12 ranks
20th: Balance 6 ranks, Bluff 23 ranks, Climb 5 ranks, Decipher Script 23 ranks, Diplomacy 23 ranks, Disable Device 6 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 23 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 14 ranks, Perform (woodwind) 23 ranks, Spellcraft 23 ranks, Tumble 6 ranks, Use Magic Device 18 ranks



Items:

330gp
1. +2 Harmonizing* Screaming Burst* Rapier (50,320 GP), Lesser Crystal of Return* (1,000 GP)
2. +5 Light Fortification Called* Soulfire** Mithral Breastplate (106,350 GP), Restful Crystal (500 GP)
3. +5 Tome of Clear Thought (137,500 GP) (292,170 spent)
4. +6 Belt of Magnificence*** (200,000 GP) (492,170 spent)
5. Handy Haversack (2,000 GP) (494,170 spent)
6. Greater Rod of Metamagic (Extend Spell) (24,000 GP) (518,170 spent)
7. Rod of Metamagic (Quicken Spell) (75,500 GP) (593,170 spent)
8. Cloak of Minor Displacement (24,000 GP) (617,170 spent)
9. Ring of Invisibility (20,000 GP)
10. Third Eye Conceal* (120,000 GP)

*Magic Item Compendium
**Book of Exalted Deeds
***Miniatures Handbook

None of these items are actually necessary except the Belt and the Tome. Vest of Legends (DMG II) may or may not enhance Sreiska's Bardic Music because the item says "whenever a bard uses Bardic Music".

The weapon can continue a song for you, the armor has a chance to block criticals and always blocks death/negative energy/etc magic/abilities. The other items are just nice to have.



The Buildup

As a Beguiler, Sreiska shares most of the Bard's spell list (albeit some spells are obtained later, because the Beguiler uses the Sorc/Wiz list). In addition, she can cast in Light Armor (as a Bard can), can make use of Bardic Knowledge (thanks to Loredelver), and learns all Bardic Music up to 10th level (thanks to Troubadour of Stars). She actually learns higher level spells than a Bard would (7th level Arcane), casts from a more useful stat (Int), and gains new Bardic Music abilities and Sanctified spells. Normally, spontaneous spellcasters can't use Sanctified spells. This specific build doesn't put points into Search to utilize Trapfinding, but one could swap out ranks in the various Knowledges to do that.


The Backstory

Sreiska spent her early days as a Beguiler travelling with various adventurers, using her skills and magic to fill the role of a party rogue. The relations with her Cabal became strained when she would spend more time exploring ruins and solving mysteries abroad than at home helping her people advance, so she cut her ties (almost) completely and became a member of the Knights of Lore, a group created to help Illumian adventurers help their people and themselves at the same time. Specifically, the Knights required that its members bring back information and as much material to be studied as they could, and in return they would report the gathered information back to an individual's Cabal. In one ruin, she found ancient texts regarding the celestial court of the Eladrin and a language, mentioned only in passing, that immediately caught her attention: the Words of Creation. If such a powerful language existed, it would certainly help her people understand their own existence and their language.

Hoping to uncover this language, she dedicated herself to the Eladrin and explored far and wide, finding new knowledge and helping those in need. Finally, she was invited to join the ranks of the Troubadours of Stars, a group of minstrels dedicated to the cause of Good (though she was no ..."professional" minstrel, she knew how to play a flute). It took only a few more years for her to be gifted with knowledge of some of the Words of Creation. When combined with her song, it revealed to her such beauty that she decided then to perfect her music as much as she could, while staying true to the Troubadours and helping those in need.




=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Stavf Mayor, Author of Wendigo

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/407620/Wordsmith1.jpg

Stavf Mayor is a fireblood dwarf wizard and wordsmith.
She does not need to chant or perform arcane gestures.
She doesn't need material components.
The words that she has written jump off the page and come to life.
The effect is truly magical.

Words are funny things.
They can mean many things at once.
They can mean nothing at all.
They can be read by a great many people!
And if written simply, they can be read by just about anyone.

Unfortunately Stavf Mayor is an uninspired plagiarist, with little personality and an unhealthy obsession with Wendigo. Even still, her friends, family, party members and legion of fan-dwarves often find great meaning and power in her work.

Stavf the Spellsharer (ECL 8)

Stavf does not understand the idea of Intellectual Spell Property. She steals spells and she gives spells wherever she goes. Being a Master Spellthief, she can cast the spells of other party members, making her an effective healer, an effective buffer, and just about anything else. If any of her party members have spells, Stavf can cast their spells for them. She can also steal and cast her enemies spells! But the violation doesn't just stop there, she has learned how to write runes. With her sharable runes, she can specially prepare some of her spells so that they can be used by party members, Spell Lists and UMD be damned. She can even give away spells for others to cast that are normally personal. Also with her runic preparation her wizard spells no longer have somatic components, allowing her to do all of her Spellsharing while in light armor.


Stavf the Publisher (ECL 13)

Casting the partiy cleric's spells for them just wasn't enough for Stavf. By this point she is casting other peoples spells... better. She is now able to cast sixth level wizard spells, and steal sixth level spells from anybody! But that is not her main trick. Through her time spent as a War Weaver, she knows how to spread the buffs around. She can cast any harmless spell, up to fifth level on to all of her party members at the same time. This includes the spells she has stolen from others. Steal a Barkskin from the druid, everyone is barkskinned. She can also precast buff spells, only to release them on the party later as a move action, giving her, and the party a significant action advantage. Move action to release 3 buffs, standard action to cast an additional buff.

Unfortunately Stavf Mayor has become obsessed with the Wendigo. She starts to write on and on about them, hiding her spell runes inside passages about longing frosty gazes. She has even started carrying around buckets of conjured snow, just so she will feel more at home with her beloved wendigo (and make all of her spells count as cold spells thanks to Snowcasting). Her love of Wendigo even seems to infect everyone around her, making all of their cold spells more powerful (Draconic Aura: Cold). Unfortunately Knowledge Nature is not a class skill for war weavers, and Stavf Mayor has no idea what Wendigo actually are. She thinks they have glitterdust as a 1/day spell like ability.


Stavf the Wordsmith (ECL 20)

One of the major breakthroughs that Stavf made in her writing was when she started wishing things to be better. She carved 3 permanent runes of lesser wish into her flesh. While a runesmith's permanent runes require 20 times the material cost of a spell to make, they only require the XP cost once. Stavf can now cast Limited Wish 6 times per day as a spell like ability without any further xp loss. Limited Wish can be used to duplicate any wizard spell of 6th level or lower. Limited Wish can be used to duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower. Stavf Mayor now effectively knows all spells of 5th level or lower, and can cast the ones she likes into her parties Eldritch Tapestry, buffing them all at once. On top of that she can cast 9th level wizard spells, and steal 9th level spells from her party members. With her Share Runes ability she can share personal spells of 7th level or lower (but unfortunately not her wished up spells).

Her obsession with Wendigo has only gotten more extreme. Her Draconic Aura now gives all of her party members +4 DC on all of their cold spells, including herself. She also has learned Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focus. In the end all of her spells ever are cast with +6 to the saving throw DC. It would normally be inconvenient carrying all that snow arround, but Stavf no longer needs the snow.

Because she is now a geometer as well. Her knowledge of runes lets her prepare her spells without Somatic components. With her snow casting, she normally uses snow and a rune as the material component. With her new knowledge of spellglyphs she can prepare spells without verbal or material components. All of her spells are now Silenced, Stilled, and Eschewed. When she wishes it, the words jump off paper, coming to life, and magic happens, spreading throughout the Eldritch Tapestry, or instead directly to her opponents.


The Authorized Biography of Stavf Mayor

Stavf Mayor
Fireblood Dwarf Spellthief 1/ Wizard 4/ Runesmith 5 / War Weaver 5 / Geometer 5
And Prolific Author of Young Dwarf Wendigo Fiction
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Spellthief 1|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Conc 4, CWeave 4, CStone 4, Cword 4, Decipher 4, Disable 4, Karcana 4, Search 4, Scraft 4, Spot 4|Heavy Armor Proficiency|SA +1d6, Trapfinding, Steal Spell

2nd|Wizard 1|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+4|Conc 5, Cweave 5, Cstone 5, Cword 5, Decipher 5, Karcana 5|(Scribe Scroll)|Familiar

3rd|Wizard 2|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+5|Conc 6, Cweave 6, Cstone 6, Cword6, Decipher 6, Karcana 6|Master Spellthief|

4th|Wizard 3l|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+5|Conc 7, Cstone 7, Cword 7, Decipher 7, Karcana 7, Scraft 5||

5th|Wizard 4|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+6|Conc 8, Cstone 8, Cword 8, Decipher 8, Karcana 8, Scraft 6||

6th|Runesmith 1|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+8|Conc 9, Cword 9, Decipher 9, Karcana 9, Scraft 8|Enlarge Spell|Rune Magic

7th|Runesmith 2|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+9|Conc 10, Cword 10, Decipher 10, Karcana 10, Scraft 10, Appraise 1||Stonecraft Expertise

8th|Runesmith 3|
+3|
+4|
+2|
+9|Conc 11, Cword 11, Decipher 11, Karcana 11, Scraft 11, Appraise 3|Share Runes|

9th|War Weaver 1|
+3|
+4|
+2|
+11|Conc 12, Cword 12, Karcana 12, Scraft 12, Profession Sellout 3|Snowcasting|Eldritch Tapestry

10th|War Weaver 2|
+4|
+4|
+2|
+12|Conc 13, Cword 13, Karcana 13, Scraft 13, Profession Sellout 6||Quiescent 1
11th|War Weaver 3|
+4|
+5|
+3|
+12|Conc 14, Cword 14, Karcana 14, Scraft 14, Profession Sellout 9||Quiescent 2

12th|War Weaver 4|
+5|
+5|
+3|
+13|Conc 15, Cword 15, Karcana 15, Scraft 15, Profession Sellout 12|Draconic Aura: Cold|Quiescent 3

13th|War Weaver 5|
+5|
+5|
+3|
+13|Conc 16, Cword 16, Karcana 16, Scraft 16, Profession Sellout 15||Quiescent 4, Enlarged Weave

14th|Runesmith 4|
+5|
+6|
+3|
+14|Conc 17, Cword 17, Karcana 17, Scraft 17, Decipher 14||

15th|Runesmith 5|
+6|
+6|
+3|
+14|Conc 18, Cword 18, Karcana 18, Scraft 18, Decipher 17|Cold Focus|Permanent Rune

16th|Geometer 1|
+6|
+6|
+3|
+16|Conc 19, Cword 19, Karcana 19, Scraft 19, K. Planes 4||Glyph of Warding, Spellglyph

17th|Geometer 2|
+7|
+6|
+3|
+17|Conc 20, Cword 20, Karcana 20, Scraft 20, K. Planes 8||Book of Geometry

18th|Geometer 3|
+7|
+7|
+4|
+17|Conc 21, Cword 21, Karcana 21, Scraft 21, K. Planes 12|Greater Cold Focus|Sigil Sight

19th|Geometer 4|
+8|
+7|
+4|
+18|Conc 22, Cword 22, Karcana 22, Scraft 22, K Planes 16||Pass Sigil

20th|Geometer 5|
+8|
+7|
+4|
+18|Conc 23, Cword 23, Karcana 23, Scraft 23, K Planes 20||Powerful Spellglyph, Greater Glyph of Warding[/table]


Bibliography:

Fireblood Dwarf: Dragon Magic
Spell thief : Complete Adventurer
Master Spell thief : Complete Scoundrel
Runesmith : Races of Stone
Snowcasting: Frostburn
War Weaver : Heroes of Battle
Draconic Aura: Dragon Magic
Geometer: Complete Arcane
Cold Focus : Frostburn
Greater Cold Focus: Frostburn


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Violet Songbringer

Chaotic Good->Neutral Evil
Rogue 2/Human Paragon 1/Cloistered cleric 1/ Battle Sorceror2/Druidic Advenger Druid 1/ Battle Sorceror 6/ Human paragon 2/Fochulon Lyricist 5
This operates off of the fact that Cloistered Clerics Lore Class feature being pointed as being identical to Bardic Knowledge
Domains:Trickery and Magic
STR: 12 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 16
Level 4: Strength
Level 8: Strength
Level 12: Wisdom
Level 16: Dexterity
Level 20: Dexterity
Technically you just gained Bardic Music through Fochulon lyricist.
Feats
Level 1: Trickery Devotion
Human Bonus:Able Learner
Level 3: Force of Personality
Level 6:Spell Penetration
Level 9: Lucky Catch
Level 12: Make your own luck
Bonus: Power Attack
Level 15:Earth Sense
Level 18:Extra Music

Bard like features:Has acess to 3rd level divine spells (simulating the bard's ability to cast cure spells)
7th level arcane spells casting 5 level bardic music of +8 and lore,
Add-ons: Rage 1/day, earth sense, extra level of spells in the arcane, and a couple of turn undead uses, luck feats (jack-of-all-trades need to be lucky)

Skills
Level 1: 4 decipher script, 4 diplomacy, 4 sleight of hand, 4 perform (string Instrument) 4 disguise 2 knowledge (nature), 4 gather information, 4 escape artist, 2 concentration
Level 2: 5 decipher script, 5 diplomacy, 5 sleight of hand, 5 perform (string Instrument), 2 knowledge (nature), 5 gather information, 5 escape artist, 2 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device
Level 3: 6 decipher script, 6 diplomacy, 6 sleight of hand, 6 perform (string Instrument), 2 knowledge (nature), 6 gather information, 5 escape artist, 2 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device
Level 4: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 6 sleight of hand, 6 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 6 gather information, 5 escape artist, 2 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 5: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 6 sleight of hand, 8 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 6 gather information, 5 escape artist, 3 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 6:7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 9 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 3 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 7:7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 10 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 6 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 8: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 11 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 8 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 9: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 12 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device,
Level 10: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 13 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 2
Level 11: 7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 13 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 5
Level 12:7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 13 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 8
Level 13:7 decipher script, 7 diplomacy, 7 sleight of hand, 13 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 11
Level 14:8 decipher script, 8 diplomacy, 8 sleight of hand, 14 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 7 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 15: 9 decipher script, 9 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 15 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 8 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 16:9 decipher script, 16 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 15 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 8 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 17:9 decipher script, 17 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 20 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 8 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 18:9 decipher script, 17 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 20 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 14 gather information, 5 escape artist, 10 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 19:9 decipher script, 17 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 20 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 14 gather information, 5 escape artist, 16 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12
Level 20:9 decipher script, 17 diplomacy, 9 sleight of hand, 20 perform (string Instrument), 7 knowledge (nature), 14 gather information, 5 escape artist, 22 concentration, 5 disguise, 2 use magic device, Spellcraft 12


Arcane Spells (learned in order)
Level 0:Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights, Resistance, Flare, Open/Close,Read Magic, Ghost Sound,
Level 1:Expeditious Retreat,Lesser Confusion, Ventriloquism, Hideous Laughter,
Level 2:Darkness, Cat's Grace, Invisibility, False Life,
Level 3:Suggestion, Deep Slumber,Displacement,
Level 4: Natural Terrain,Shout,Shadow Conjuration
Level 5: Nightmare, Mirage Arcana,
Level 6: Mass Suggestion,
Put the human paragon spell advancement into cleric and the fochulan lyrist to Sorcerer and Cleric as well


Born and raised as a pickpocket, Violet never had bad intentions, she only stole to support her self and her little brother, all she really wanted to do was play her. However, a wandering priest took her and her brother in, and allowed her acssess to his prviate library, where she studied and and continued to play the violin. Eventually she ran away from the sanctum when her sorceror powers started to develop in fear of harming the people of the sanctum. When she learned her powers were in her control, she made a home in the forest because the powers were still scary to the near magicless village would kill her on site, she would go on to become embittered angry at the society that would murder her. She drew into the rage and unleashed both nature and arcane might upon the village slaughtering them all. There she starts anew driven by her rage, she latches onto studies left behind originally donated by a master bard to the villagers. There she learns that the villagers were about to accept her and would not have killed her, this knowledge drives her mad, right before a task force is sent to kill her.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

You kids these days got it easy. Why, I remember back in the day... the Bard was one of the most amazing things around. Of course, the only ones who could be a bard was a Human, since it required multiclassing Fighter/Rogue/Druid, not dual-classing like the demi-humans did back then.

Oh yea, those were the days... none of these 'base attack bonus' shenanigans like you've got, we had THAC0 and we loved it! Also, back then, a high AC was a bad thing. You wanted it as low as you could get. Heck, I remember, I used to have a negative AC score... and that was the cat's meow.

So, where was I? Oh yes... bards. Well, I suppose you youngsters these days would call it the first prestige class, since it required other classes to become one. They were pretty awesome, but a pain to get there. Especially those druid levels... yeesh, talk about taking forever to level up. You kids with standardized xp requirements to level sure have it easy.

Yep, that was the original Bard, before second edition came along and turned it into some spoony fop prancing around with Brave Sir Robin. As quick with his wit as with his sword. He could use thief skills, had a good THAC0, AND could cast some druid spells, then had a few other things that only Bards had.

Man, those were the days....

Illuminian Druid1/Fighter2/Beguiler6/Loredelver3/Fochlucan Lyrist 8

Feats:

1: Able Learner
2: Weapon Finesse (fighter bonus)
3: Greensinger Initiate, Martial Study (Shadow hand) - Shadow Blade Technique (fighter bonus)
6: Martial Stance (Child of Shadow)
9: Shadow Blade
12: Dragontouched
15: Dragonfire Inspiration
18: Song of the Heart


Class Breakdown:
Druid is necessary for Fochlucan Lyrist. The ironic part is that you only needed one level of Druid to qualify for Bard in 1e as well. So while this is a dip, it's also in keeping with the 1e Bard. It also lets me pick up Perform as a class skill through Greensinger Initiate so I can qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist.

Beguilers are already pretty close to Bards, as far as spell selection. They've also got the skillset needed, which makes them a pretty good starting point.

Fighter is in here for two reasons. First, I wanted some 'swishy pokey' action going on and 1e bards required Fighter anyways. Second, I needed some spare feats if I was going to do DFI later in life and remove Str dependency.

Loredelver nets me Bardic Knowedge and Evasion together in one shot, which are both prerequisites for Fochlucan Lyrist, and Detect Magic as an unlimited-use spell-like ability. In fact, it's just about the only way I know of to get Bardic Knowledge outside of actually being a Bard (for purposes of meeting prerequisites, I didn't want to rely on the Lore class ability which functions identically to it). Plus it only loses me a single caster level in exchange for all of the above, which is a pretty nice deal.

And, of course, Fochlucan Lyrist is pretty much the 1st ed Bard class, advancing both arcane and divine spellcasting AND having a full base attack bonus progression.

In the end, I cast as a 16th level Beguiler, an 11th level Druid, with a BAB of 14, which isn't too shabby. 8th level Beguiler spells and 6th level Druid spells.

He's also got Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, some DFI use as a nod to one of the more common uses for Bards in 3.5, and between Beguiler and Druid, he's got all the iconic Bard magic as well.

Despite being a guy who likes to mix it up in combat, he doesn't need Str, in fact it's a complete dump stat for him. Between Weapon Finesse and Shadow Blade, he uses Dex rather than Str in melee.

So here you have the 1e Bard. Requiring levels in Rogue (or Beguiler, which has all the skills, and the arcane casting to represent the later bardic casting), Fighter, and Druid to combine into a good THAC0... er I mean BAB... class with thief... er Rogue... skills and powerful casting.

Thanks to everyone who submitted!

kulosle
2012-02-06, 10:40 PM
Darn it seems like the idea I had would of done nicely. I didn't submit it because it didn't duplicate the bards spell list or bardic music very well, because i really didn't want to take bard prestige classes. But know one here managed to duplicate bard spells either. I was really looking forward to a way of doing that too.

ShneekeyTheLost
2012-02-07, 02:37 AM
Darn it seems like the idea I had would of done nicely. I didn't submit it because it didn't duplicate the bards spell list or bardic music very well, because i really didn't want to take bard prestige classes. But know one here managed to duplicate bard spells either. I was really looking forward to a way of doing that too.

How so? I see all four of them doing so, but particularly the second entry, who can duplicate ANY spell of 5th level or lower.

motoko's ghost
2012-02-07, 07:37 PM
Is anyone else willing to help judge? So far I't's just me and the Underlord.

kulosle
2012-02-07, 08:29 PM
Well all but the 2nd used bardic prestige classes, which I really wanted to avoid. But totally hats off to Stavf, I like the build a lot.

The Underlord
2012-02-11, 12:57 PM
So what you can expect for my ratings will be
1. Beguiler/Fochulairn Lyrist/Loredelver= origanality hit
2. 3rd build-close to no elegance
3. 3.5 bard, not 1e bard
4. 2nd buid will get good power but not very good ingredeint

motoko's ghost
2012-02-11, 08:00 PM
I'll post my scores up as soon as I can find the thumbdrive I used for them

IdleMuse
2012-02-11, 08:06 PM
Sorry I couldn't submit by deadline! Lost in the RL stuff...

EDIT: Especially since no one seemed to use my build, which I thought (the early part of which) seemed too obvious at least! Would have been Harmonius Knight/War Chanter/Dawncaller for all the songs.

dspeyer
2012-02-12, 01:24 AM
Also wishing I'd made the deadline.

My partial build, fwiw, would have been feated? rogue 1 / cloistered spontaneous cleric 19 with the charm and trickery domains. The extra spells known let you hide Prayer and Good Hope as "bardic music" (they stack) and Divine Power (dmm persisted) as "3/4 bab". I think there were enough overlap spells to make it work, but I never did get them worked out.

kulosle
2012-02-12, 06:23 AM
Sorry I couldn't submit by deadline! Lost in the RL stuff...

EDIT: Especially since no one seemed to use my build, which I thought (the early part of which) seemed too obvious at least! Would have been Harmonius Knight/War Chanter/Dawncaller for all the songs.

No one did this because it would of gotten a 0 for originality, you might as well of used prestigious bard.

The Underlord
2012-02-15, 07:01 PM
So I'm currently typing my judging as you read Finished

Sreiska of the Stars
Innovation: 2.5 You used both beguiler and loredelver, which were both not very creative. You did use Troubader, which wasn't used by the other builds. The reason this isn't a 2 is because the majority of your levels were in ToS, not loredelver or beguiler
Power: 3.5 while this build is not particularly poweful, it is better than average.
Elegance: 4.5 this build did the best in avoiding dips, the reason it is not a perfect 5 is because you only took 3 levels of lore delver.
Fluff: 4 it flows pretty well, not much more to say about it.
Ingrediant: 3.5 it did get most of the bard's features, but I was hoping for a more creative way of getting them instead of straight up getting them. I hope you get what I mean
Total: 18
Stavf Mayor
Innovation: 5 Completely unqiue, unlike all of the other builds
Power: 4 pretty powerful, especially with the limited wish 6/day
Elegance: 3 While I like this build in general, elegance has a glaring flaw. The spellthief dip. other than that, it stays pretty good. It takes most of its PrC to the end or near the end,, though the 1 level-dip hurts.
Fluff: 3 Not particularly good or bad in this department
Ingrediant 4 You can get most of Bardic Music effects with buff spells+war weaver lets you buff your allies. It can emulate most of the bard's spell list. So pretty good in this department
Total 19
Violet Songbringer
Innovation: 2.5Some commonly used stiff, and some less commonly used stuff
Power: 3 Nothing special here really
Elegance: 0: Really this build suffered in elegance. A bunch of 1, or 2 level dips. And the lore transperancy to get into Fochularian Lyrists. Its really bad in elegance
Fluff: 2 My main problem? The alignment change. While it was required to change into druid, it felt off because you didn't need to be CG in the first place. Honestly, it felt pointless. Your backstory feels like it is just there to justify your class selection.
Ingrediant3.5 basically the same applies here to what I said about Srieska
Total 11
1e Bard
Foreword: I have never played AD&D so the effect was lost on me. The contest did specify the player handbook's bard :smalltongue:
Innovation 2 You used Fochularian Lyrist, beguiler and loredelver. The only reason this is not a 1 is because no one else though about captureing the AD&D bard
Power: 3.5 Decent power pretty good combat and spell casting
Elegance: 2 The dips in druid and fighter are my main reason this is low.
Fluff 1 You didn't really provide a background for the character really, all we know is he is a AD&D grognard
Ingrediant: 3.5 basically, what i said about srieska applies here. You directly emulated it instead of imitating it.
Total: 12

The Underlord
2012-02-18, 08:58 PM
No one? Anyone? (Starts playing viola to attract people)

motoko's ghost
2012-02-18, 11:54 PM
Mine should be up in the next couple hours, sorry for the wait

Okay here we go;

Sreiska

innovation-3 both beguiler and illumian get a fair amount of workout in these sorts of multiclassing builds, however ToS was a nice choice
power-3.5 reasonable optimised but not too m
elegance-4.5 flowed very well, avoiding dips for the most part
fluff-4 very nice
ingredient-4.5 an excellent collection of bard-like abilities
ttl-19.5


Stavf

innovation-5 dont often see fireblood or geometer, still not sure wether to mark you up or down for your concept but it is originally :smalltongue:
power-5 near full casting with the expanded spelllist and other abilities from the build coupled with spamable limited wish makes this a very powerful build
elegance-3 while the master spellthief feat did help mitigate the spellthief dip, you still lost points for it, however otherwise the build came together well
fluff-4 You've got a backstory and a photo and I decided to give you a tiny extra bit for the tongue-in-cheek jokes
ingredient-3.5 is capable of casting most of the bard's list as well as having those "literacy" skills :smalltongue:
ttl-20.5


Violet

innovation-3.5 some commonly used stuff, like fochulan lyrist however the stuff like druidic avenger druid and battle sorceror were unexpected
power-3.5 nice selection of abilities, nothing too powerful but stronger than the original bard
elegance-1.5 a lot of dips and as you pointed out requires lore transparency, not the most elegant build
fluff-2 I'm going to agree with the underlord here, the alignment shift feels unessicary
ingredient-4 you have managed to capture almost all of the bards abilities
ttl-14.5


Unamed 1e bard

innovation-3 beguiler and fochulan lyrist both get heavy use, however the AD&D aspect is something I've honestly never seen before
power-4 decent combat skills as well as spellcasting from 2 different classes makes this a fairly strong build
elegance-2 mostly from the 1&2lv dips you took
fluff-3 You did go rather light on your character and his background, however you did lay some out and it is a nice character concept
ingredient-4 you managed to get pretty much everything the bard has
ttl-15.5


this gives us a final score of;

Stavf;39.5 points
Sreiska;37.5 points
Unamed 1e bard;27.5 points
Violet;25.5

Congratulations Stavf Mayor, you've won the competition(now please stop writing about wendigos:smalltongue:).

Congratulations to all those who entered;
The Gilded Duke(Stavf Mayor), Derjuin(Sreiska of the Stars), ShneekeyTheLost(Unamed 1e bard) and Smasher0404(Violet Songbringer)



Thanks also to The Underlord for helping to judge.

The trophy should be up soon, untill then which should the next contest be?
Looking back over the previous threads there seem to be 3 suggestions, assassin, monk and dwarven defender. Should the next one be one of those?

smasher0404
2012-02-19, 09:47 PM
Wait since when did i do a character named Shneeky? :P i really wished i realized the error of my first build earlier, (turns out a feat uses the words inspire competence without relating to the actual ability)

The Underlord
2012-02-19, 11:18 PM
I would prefer monk, though dwarven defender could be interesteing.

The Gilded Duke
2012-02-20, 09:40 AM
Yeah I have an idea for monk, but sometime Truenamer would be awesome.

The Underlord
2012-02-20, 11:38 AM
Yeah I have an idea for monk, but sometime Truenamer would be awesome.

I bet Stavf Mayor could have won truenamer.

deuxhero
2012-02-20, 12:11 PM
Samurai is a bad choice given it that's been done (="play a warblade")

DD was done bettter in PHB2, ToB and RoS, I'm not sure it needs a Zinc Saucier.

I like Monk, just hopefully avoiding unarmed swordsage.

The Gilded Duke
2012-02-20, 02:59 PM
I bet Stavf Mayor could have won truenamer.

Hah yeah. It seems like what the judges prefer (at least from the competitions so far) Is thematically and role similar, as opposed to mechanically similar. So I built an artistic expression based buffer character, which is kinda what a bard is, as opposed to trying to get bard song from a PRC and then advance it.

As far as other classes we could do:
Dragon Shaman
Factotum
Binder
Totemist

The Underlord
2012-02-21, 08:29 AM
Next contest? or update?

motoko's ghost
2012-02-21, 11:26 AM
I'll start the next contest soon, I just wanted to see some feedback about what class people wanted next

New contest is up. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749)

apologies to those who submitted, the thumbdrive containing the trophies were lost:smallfrown:, I'll try to get them again, or failing that some new ones.